Developer Diary, Part 33

[BlackSix]

33

 

 

Greetings, friends!

 

While Albert is out for his short vacation Zak asked me, Daniel Tuseev, the Project Manager in 1CGS, to help with the new Dev blog note. I think I have lots of stories to tell you, but today I'm writing a couple of words about this pretty disturbing question: what's the difference between TRUE flight models and table-driven FMs? This one should be interesting because I bet you're wondering what's so special in the FM used in IL:2BOS (the improved version of FM in ROF) in comparison to all previously known FMs.

Let's start with dispelling the myth about "old", "table-driven", "scripted", or "rail-guided" flight models of the early days. Those myths turned out to be very sticky despite numerous explanations made by developers of different projects.

 

 

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[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Oooo, landscape picks!

[II./JG77Timairborne]

This game is going to be amazing. How many people you think will crash while trying to get a good look at the shiny new ground vehicles lol. 

[4S_Nero]

This is one of the best update. THX Han.

[FlatSpinMan]

We. Have. Ground troops! And don't they look good!

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Thanks for the update, It's give a lot of food for thought, and I guess I'll be going back and re-reading in the future.

 

Objects pictured look great. There can't be too much variety in targets! Can't wait to get behind the controls of the IL2!

Edited September 20, 2013 by Skoshi_Tiger

[Uufflakke]

I would like to participate in the poll but as a non founder I am not allowed to.

 

Does the separation between founders and non founders start to take place?

 

I fully understand that founders are privileged to play the beta game already but is our choice/opinion less important?

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

awesome read, thanks for the in depth report.. Loved learning the history and the work involved in making just one aspect of our new flight sim.

I would like to participate in the poll but as a non founder I am not allowed to.

 

Does the separation between founders and non founders start to take place?

 

I fully understand that founders are privileged to play the beta game already but is our choice/opinion less important?

To me yes; if you want to be a founder and enjoy such privilege then by all means.

[JtD]

Very interesting read, thank you! While mostly an interesting general description, it even answered some of the detail question I had on my mind. Good information, and nice pictures, too.

[pilotpierre]

This just gets better and better

[JtD]

I would like to participate in the poll but as a non founder I am not allowed to.

The skin is for founders, only. It makes sense to limit the poll to founders, only.

 

I'm certain the polls for the entire community, like aircraft choices, will still be there.

[leitmotiv]

I would like to participate in the poll but as a non founder I am not allowed to.

 

Does the separation between founders and non founders start to take place?

 

I fully understand that founders are privileged to play the beta game already but is our choice/opinion less important?

 

dont worry its nothing important, we are just selecting new Russian forum avatar picture for LOFT

 

 

 

nice update

 

 

 

i think thats AA single man gun emplacement not infantry if your thinking about picture no2 FlatSpinMan

[Wombat]

Great post, thanks for the update. It will be nice when we can see those ground troops in action.

S!

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks for the detailed update on your work!

 

 

MAC

[Bearcat]

I would like to participate in the poll but as a non founder I am not allowed to.

 

Does the separation between founders and non founders start to take place?

 

I fully understand that founders are privileged to play the beta game already but is our choice/opinion less important?

 

Your choices are very important.... use them.

 

awesome read, thanks for the in depth report.. Loved learning the history and the work involved in making just one aspect of our new flight sim.

To me yes; if you want to be a founder and enjoy such privilege then by all means.

 

 

I agree... look the standard pre order is $50 which is probably what the sim will cost anyway.. so what do you have to loose.. You know the product is coming.. it isn't like it is some vague half baked plan with no real definition and just pixels on a screen ... You have seen concrete evidence and progress over the past 10 months so IMO there is no valid reason other than either unwillingness (which of course is everyone's choice) or financial inability to not pre order. The latter of course cannot be helped but the former ... choices mate.

 

Great update as usual....

[EagleEye]

Many questions I had in my mind regarding FMs are answered now. Many thanks for taking the time to explain. Much appreciated!

[JGzbV_Manni]

@Han

 

as most of us aren´t familiar wir Lomac/Lockon & even RoF - could you please describe how the BoS FM/DM is different from IL21946 &or Cliffs of Dover?

 

Nevertheless - very interesting update!

[ST_ami7b5]

Excellent update,

thanks Han! 

[SYN_DerHesse70]

Thanks for that very informative update Han!

[theOden]

Dear Han,

 

I love your helmet.

 

Fridaybeers

/theOden

 

[EAF_Paf]

Nice Update, Thx Han

[Picchio]

Whoa!

[I./JG1_Baron]

Nice update...   Cant wait..

[Rodolphe]

...

 

Still a long way to go, but those БА-64's will make it to the their final destination ...

 

 

...

Edited September 20, 2013 by Rodolphe

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

For once I'm less than thrilled with the update. It's not about the FMs or the visuals of the world, but the lay out of villages.

 

I know this is the developers diary, and what we see are "work so far", but the map seems to suffer from the same problem with village lay-out that has plagued old IL2 from the beginning. A map this size must by necessity be auto-populated, but it should be possible put in some houses that do not line as accurately as in the pick. To illustrate what I mean, look at the development shot and a village from outside Moskva (from Google Earth):

 

 

 

Village Armazova, outside Moskva. Some houses are obviously modern, but the fences and fields seem to follow traditional lines.

 

 

 

Unless one uses GPS when lining up and planning a village, no village will be as lined up as the development shot. Even in the Sovjet era, villages grew organically to some extent. I really hope they get someone to have a look at the auto-generating routine before the map ships.

Edited September 20, 2013 by 79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer

[theOden]

@Han

 

as most of us aren´t familiar wir Lomac/Lockon & even RoF - could you please describe how the BoS FM/DM is different from IL21946 &or Cliffs of Dover?

 

Nevertheless - very interesting update!

 

Good question.

As a primarily jetfighter-jockey (Falcon4 though) having experienced the Lockon Su25 to AFM version in FC2 I can easily say it feels very very very good to hear these folks are now on 777 team.

Actually, reading todays update made me honestly look even more forward to October and most definitely the release in 2014.

I even got a new picture/theory of why DCS is what it is today but that I shall not mention on this forum.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Thanks for the update and pics Have a great weekend all!

[BG09]

More detail is needed in ground objects...hmmmm...this is 14 years after IL-2 demo in 2000-th year...

 

Look here: .

 

https://www.google.bg/search?q=IronFront&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q0c8Uu_zHsbWtAaJkIDgCA&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1217&bih=1043&dpr=1

 

Here too:

 

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/iron-front-liberation-1944-d-day-dlc-announced-coming-this-december/

 

... THATS WHAT I CALL contemporary WWII simulation...

Edited September 20, 2013 by BG09

[Sim]

I know it's a bit early to criticize the map - but the village layout needs some more love. Also, whats up with house roofs? I know it's snow - but they look kind of solid white right now. But the FM and damage update was great, pretty much what I expected from the RoF team!

Edited September 20, 2013 by Sim

[Sim]

https://www.google.bg/search?q=IronFront&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q0c8Uu_zHsbWtAaJkIDgCA&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1217&bih=1043&dpr=1

 

... THATS WHAT I CALL contemporary WWII simulation...

 

You can't be serious? That's an infantry/ground based game.. that kind of detail in a flight sim will not happen any time soon. Also, try flying that Stuka in Iron Front. It feels like a jet engine based flight model from ARMA on a prop plane

[PA-Sniv]

Nice update, interresting reading, interresting ground objects & infantryman (asked by community and implemented by developpers) and...

 

Screenshots now say: ALPHA VERSION!!!!!! :)

No more "early-alpha"!

 

Thanks!!!!

[Sim]

Nice update, interresting reading, interresting ground objects & infantryman (asked by community and implemented by developpers) and...

 

I am pretty sure it's a static machine gun "vehicle". Just like in RoF. Not an actual infantry per se.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Sim

[PA-Sniv]

I was referring to drivers inside vehicules...

[touchdown42]

For once I'm less than thrilled with the update. It's not about the FMs or the visuals of the world, but the lay out of villages.

 

I know this is the developers diary, and what we see are "work so far", but the map seems to suffer from the same problem with village lay-out that has plagued old IL2 from the beginning. A map this size must by necessity be auto-populated, but it should be possible put in some houses that do not line as accurately as in the pick. To illustrate what I mean, look at the development shot and a village from outside Moskva (from Google Earth):

 

 

 

Village Armazova, outside Moskva. Some houses are obviously modern, but the fences and fields seem to follow traditional lines.

 

 

 

Unless one uses GPS when lining up and planning a village, no village will be as lined up as the development shot. Even in the Sovjet era, villages grew organically to some extent. I really hope they get someone to have a look at the auto-generating routine before the map ships.

 

 

+1

 

It would be so nice to have clearly distinguishable landmarks like small villages or groups of farm houses so you know exactly where on the map you are.

This way you get a 'feeling' for the terrain you fly over and it would make navigation much easier, especially for low and slow flying planes like a IL2 ...

 

Perhaps this could be solved via some community effort? Isn't it possible to create groups in the editor?

So why not define some parts of the map to populate by community members via the editor and then choose from the offers or even make a poll like the one for the skin?

Perhaps it would be even possible to use the ROF editor?

 

I'm sure, if the base objects are available, some creative members of the community would handcraft really beautifull villages.

Assuming that the time to create such villages is the limiting factor and not some other engine related reasons, that is ...

 

What do you think?

[Stakha]

Very interesting update Han, thanks!

[AndyJWest]

Thanks Han, for a really interesting read. 

[JtD]

as most of us aren´t familiar wir Lomac/Lockon & even RoF - could you please describe how the BoS FM/DM is different from IL21946 &or Cliffs of Dover?

I am curious as well, but I guess the developers don't know the Il-2 FM's as well as they know the RoF model. So it will be up to us to check it with the early access. One thing is for sure, the propeller -> environment thing is not in Il-2. You can't blow over a small light aircraft parked directly behind a heavy, powerful one at full throttle. Will be interesting to see what exactly happens in BoS.

 

Perhaps this could be solved via some community effort? ... What do you think?

I think that would be great, but it is the kind of support the developers so far haven't shown much interest in, at least on the international board. Map making might also not be the easiest thing, regarding the tools required. Hopefully at some point after (pre-)release we'll get the tools. The community has provided plenty of good maps in Il-2, it would be a shame if that wasn't possible with BoS. Mind you, it took years with Il-2 before the tools were made available, and even then it only were a selected few.

[Han]

More detail is needed in ground objects...hmmmm...this is 14 years after IL-2 demo in 2000-th year...

 

Look here: .

 

https://www.google.bg/search?q=IronFront&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q0c8Uu_zHsbWtAaJkIDgCA&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1217&bih=1043&dpr=1

 

Here too:

 

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/iron-front-liberation-1944-d-day-dlc-announced-coming-this-december/

 

... THATS WHAT I CALL contemporary WWII simulation...

 

 

Cool! Cool! Cool! We can do this to, but will you like THIS visibility range???? I'm don't think so...

 

This is game about vehicles and troops, not about aircrafts.

 

We're about aircrafts, so if you want to see best details - look on our AIRPLANES screens, they're comparable, may be even better

 

Plus... Don't forget about FPS, people with mid-end PCs can't play Arma-3 without frustration. Do you want frustration? I'm don't think so. Look at FPS indicator at screenshot also, it's self-describing thing...

 

[6S.Manu]

More detail is needed in ground objects...hmmmm...this is 14 years after IL-2 demo in 2000-th year...

 

Look here: .

 

https://www.google.bg/search?q=IronFront&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q0c8Uu_zHsbWtAaJkIDgCA&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1217&bih=1043&dpr=1

 

Here too:

 

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/iron-front-liberation-1944-d-day-dlc-announced-coming-this-december/

 

... THATS WHAT I CALL contemporary WWII simulation...

 

Infantry sim != Flight sim

 

Come on... you are not going to be so near to those 3D models flying your plane. And if you are then you're not going to note them for more than 1 second. ;-)

 

I understand that's bad for movie makers, but IMO the developers should not spend resources in something like that.

 

Develop a "combat flight sim", not an 3D model application as CloD (all is nice when it's captured while paused).

Edited September 20, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

I'm sure, if the base objects are available, some creative members of the community would handcraft really beautifull villages.

Assuming that the time to create such villages is the limiting factor and not some other engine related reasons, that is ...

 

That would be grand! I'm not really sure if there's time though.