Landing Help.

[[7]Brin]

Hi, can someone list the steps to take when landing? I always seem to be coming in to fast. Thanks.

[HansHansen]

A video or recording could help to analyze problems. There are many ways of coming in too fast. Common solutions: less power, shallow approach, full flaps, more tail heavy trim...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Look up Requiems videos and Chucks guides with the search function above. Also, all or a particular aircraft? I'm sure you will get some helpful advice - I'll throw in my two cents as well once you list the AC - but be aware you are about to suffer the wrath of the, "just look it up" crowd as well.  

[[7]Brin]

Thanks , I did try to look it up. I didn't find much. A video?  I have no Idea how to record my flight. How would I do that?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Go here, pick your aircraft.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnyigzFtHeNquPvKFr3mazkk_VK0JpxUw

[[7]Brin]

Hey Thanks HerrMuf ! Those videos seem like they will be a big help. Thanks Again!

[=38=Tatarenko]

Hi, can someone list the steps to take when landing? I always seem to be coming in to fast. Thanks.

 

Well slow down then! You've tried that, right?

[SharpeXB]

This is a good training film here from WWII

 

[andyw248]

With wheels and flaps down, all fighters in BoS should be flown at just a tad over 200 kph on final approach. Establish that airspeed using the elevator and trim, and have the engine at maybe 1,800 - 2,000 RPM while on final. Then, if the aircraft descends too quickly, just add a little power, maybe 100 RPM, but maintain your attitude and airspeed. If you see that you are coming in too high, reduce power by maybe 100 to 200 RPM but don't dive for the runway.

[AirDnD]

Landing a taildragger is a unique challenge. Take your time and practice slow speeds @ 4k before attempting it @ 200m. (Don't be shy about dropping flaps, gear, and stepping on the rudder to slow). When you get to approach speed, everything changes.

 

Use throttle to control vertical speed (descent rate)

 

Use pitch to control speed

 

You should touch down w/ the flight stick full back (in your lap) and the throttle @ idle. Nano movements only! Radical input will cause disastrous instability. (especially throttle)

 

 

I'd recommend practicing w/ the Il2, she should be the most forgiving of mistakes. Whatever you do, don't punish yourself w/ the 109 unless your seriously committed (or a masochist)

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I normally have full flaps and full nose up trim. I come in at about 200kmh engine to idle and blead off speed too about 170 and then u want to judge how far u are off the ground you are and hold the stick a bit back to keep u level as u decrease speed and land. The only hard thing is not pulling the stick to high and bouncing

[AnaRasanen]

How to prevent my plane bouncing from the runway when I'm landing?

[AnaRasanen]

When I bounce it is normally because I am going too fast and try to throw it down on the runway.

 

Be patient, go around again...

 

(not that I do )

 

I approach at tree top level and my airspeed is way less than 200. Do you have to keep pushing the nose down to keep the plane on the runway?

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Since I am one of the worst at landings I will not even try to advise you but I will welcome you to BoS any way.

 

Chief

[Guest deleted@30725]

If you bounce more than once then it's best if you can to open the throttle and go again.

 

You can land practically anywhere on the map too that's flat. The volga or any big frozen river can be good practice as it's such a long wide area that there is plenty of time to get the plane on the ground without any panic. You can't rush a landing. It all feels awfully slow... right up to the point your gear collapses and you bury the nose in the snow.

 

Also try and remember what key the breaks are. I did a perfect wheels down landing in the 109 after being shot down in bos the other day. The plane coasted toward a tree. I hammered a key I thought was the break. The plane gently nudged the tree breaking its nose.

[Sokol1]

Also try and remember what key the breaks are. I

 

If you use brakes on keys, set this way:

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

If you are bouncing you have to much energy/speed left at touchdown. You should be landing in a full flare/stick in your lap at around 150 kph. At 150 you should be just about out of lift and wont have the energy left to bounce too much unless your sink rate/angle of descent was also way too high. Hard to diagnose without seeing some video.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

The "bounce" is exactly what I'm doing. Trust me I could provide videos but unless you could stop laughing long enough to analyze them they wouldn't help ...... and yea I know your talking to Brin but there are probably a few of us in his boat/aircraft. 

 

Chief

[-NW-FourSpeed]

There are a few things that will cause "bouncing". In no particular order they are:

 

*  Airspeed too high at touchdown

*  Nose too low on touchdown (ie. nose forward 2pt landings will often bounce unless you're really, really smooth)

*  Flaring too high above the ground. On a Good Day that leads to and causes the prior point. On a Bad Day it will stall out and probably break the plane (and possibly kill you).

 

Typically, you want to get a 3pt landing (both wheels AND tail touch down at the same time just a smidge above stall speed)

 

A couple things should be clear from that...

 

* Your approach speed should be just above stall (typically 10-20% above)

* Your nose attitude should look just a bit more nose down than it would be if your plane was sitting on the ground.

* Flare should be very gentle and smooth and you want a very gentle sink rate - let the plane just ease to the ground.

 

 

As others have noted, a good final approach speed for fighters is about 200 kmh (a little less for bombers). Generally,

I use about 75% flaps on final (50% on downwind leg) and nose position so I can just see the near end of the runway.

 

Power is typically around 10-30% (depending on plane - the key is to get the airspeed you need with the right nose

attitude).

 

Once making the runway is assured and I'm just a few meters off the ground, I chop throttle and gently ease the nose back

to the 3pt attitude (NOTE: that will block your forward view of the runway -- look to the side to keep centered) and hold

the stick back for a gentle sink rate.

 

Once you're down (and below flying speed) get the stick full back to keep that tail on the ground.

 

Use rudder to maintain directional control (you might even use a quick goose on power to get air flow to the rudder) and then

use your brakes to slow down and help with steerage.

 

Finally, practice, practice, practice.   Takeoff and Landing mishaps were a very common part of Flight training.

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

Regards,

4 <salute>

 

[No_85_Gramps]

Interesting thread! I still haven't practiced landings enough and have yet to be successful...but I will continue to practice using the guidance in this thread. The funny part is that I did make one successful landing...in a snowy open field, engine crapped out in a dogfight and I thought what the hell, may as well practice.

[indiaciki]

Just listen to Fourspeed. Believe me

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Fourspeed has the goods but I would say ease the thottle back as you ease the nose up. They should be done together until you are competent, then you can chop it and hold off your sink rate.

 

Lock your tailwheel if it is available. (The Fw locks with the stick full back and unlocks when pushed back to neutral) If not you, will need to increase your throttle slightly, once you have settled, to keep air moving over the rudder and maintain directional control.

[indiaciki]

Another tricky thing about BoS that made me bounce like hell. It extremely difficult to jugde altitude above RWY. No grass etc. I figured that it wasn' t at all about airspeed etc. My problem was flaring too high. The runways are very wide compared to normal ones and it's easy to misjudge the altitude before tochdown. That's a serious issue since you have to know when to flare visually. If you field of vision is wide angle... you're in trouble even if your approach was good. Flare too high, your vertical speed at TD is way too high regardless of airspeed. You bounce.

[SE.VH_Boemundo]

In the 109 try to approach at 200 km/h (adjusting your throttle) and near the touching you must to pull the throttle to idle. Control your pitch until you reach 170 ~180 km/h before touching. Do not land before that, pull back your stick gently while the aircraft stalls just over the runway (make sure you are near the ground). If you control your pitch in such way, you ll have a nose up attitude while touching down! The aircraft will land almost alone.

[indiaciki]

make sure you are near the ground

 

That's the problem I had for quite some time. And It's a BOS problem. Too little ground detail. I had a similar problem in ROF because I was landing with wide angle camera view. Distances were inacurate. In BOS you have no visual parameter to tell low altitudes above RWYs. I figured it out by now. But it was a big issue that made me bounce even at perfect approaches.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Literally all about judging how high off the ground you are and keeping as close as possible without touching as you slow down, iv mastered them now, took quite some time but very rewarding

 

Defo a lot harder in a/C where u are higher off the ground such as pe-2

Edited January 6, 2015 by AeroAce

[Dakpilot]

A good landing comes from a controlled stabilised approach

 

300M/1000ft circuit,

 

Pitch Attitude controls speed , throttle controls height , when on final approach.

 

Trim your aircraft in the landing configuration to get right attitude/speed  to fly to landing point on R/W, use throttle to maintain glideslope/landing point

 

If you get set up nicely you should be able to almost fly hands off with small throttle adjustments right up until flare/touchdown (in no wind) when you are used to this it will all fall into place, and less conventional approaches will be second nature

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[[BTEAM]_Shifty_]

I use a trick to limit bouncing. Just before touching down i retract flaps and flare a bit more. That kills the lift on the wing and plane is less eager to bounce. 

 

One thing I can't counter on LaGG is a spin right before stopping. What causes it and why other planes can be properly controlled?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Throttle up slightly in the LaGG, after she has settled down on the rollout, to maintain rudder authority.

[oneeyeddog]

Any tips or suggestions on exactly how to judge those last few feet of altitude? Thanks.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Any tips or suggestions on exactly how to judge those last few feet of altitude? Thanks.

A sixth sense, nah lol look out the window while a Lil zoomed in helps me

[Dakpilot]

Get used to the view when stationary on the runway, this is the attitude you want for landing/flare..then maintain that attitude and reduce power gently and you will settle to a perfect landing if your speed is in the correct region when close to the runway  if you flare to high you will come down with a bump though! if you have a small bounce just maintain the attitude and it will re-settle, as said above a little sideways glance out the window can help with height awareness if all is under control

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[oneeyeddog]

Thanks to you both.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

This, is a very useful and good learning thread .... thanks to all who have contributed in question or tips.

 

Chief

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Np the main thing is practice, if u flare too high just go around, expect your first goes to be bumpy(iv played since the beginning of ea and still fluff some) and After a while u will just find the sweet spot. I suggest not doing things like adjusting the flaps or trim at the last min, just put 90-100% for both and keep them there until u have mastered it, then feel free to change setup, I.e less flaps faster speed etc and notice the difference

[[BTEAM]_Shifty_]

Throttle up slightly in the LaGG, after she has settled down on the rollout, to maintain rudder authority.

Yes, but other aircraft don't need that, braking one wheel is enough to keep them straight, only Lagg does his victory dance. And La-5 to some extent

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Lagg roll is standard to me, don't fight it lol

[=LD=Penshoon]

I will keep linking Andyw248 video on bothed landings and what to do about them, helped me a lot! 

[Dakpilot]

Slightly irrelevant in terms of aircraft type but has some info and will give some solace to those who have experienced a ground loop

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5trygRQaV0

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited January 7, 2015 by Dakpilot

[Dakpilot]

Another GA tailwheel landing vid, but I really think this gives an idea of what you need to be doing with your feet/rudder even at low speeds, second landing is a very good example of having to be 'ahead of the aircraft' and constant positive not reactive rudder input

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob75R0y-obc

 

When you consider the heavier weight and greater inertia and power of a WWII fighter/bomber perhaps this vid will help with landing training/awareness and give a bigger perspective for those new to landings in taildraggers

 

Cheers Dakpilot