Reasons why i almost exclusively play BoS - unbiased WW2-sim ranking

November 1, 2014

Like i wrote in the title, in the following i will explain, why i think this is the best, and most fun WW2-Simulator out there. And why i have so much fun with it, that i almost play it exclusively, and stopped any other sim (beside a couple of DCS single player sorties per month), because they seriously fall behind BoS.

To underline my statement, i will compare all the currently played WW2-Sims which are out there, and rank them in every important aspect.

My know-how around aviation and flight sims as follows:

i read a lot of books about WW2 planes, from authentic novels, over autobiographies and history books to pure technical books. I fly/flew low-power propeller planes myself (~200-300hp), i was passenger in 1000+ hp acrobatic planes. And finally of course i own all the Sims i compare in the following, and flew + tested them.

I am very new (1 year) to flight simming, so i am not a "fanboy" of any game/developer, my opinions are in no way biased, i don't get money or else for making statements, and i just wanna have fun with virtual aviation (much cheaper then the real one, you know ). I have fun flying with other people, makes it way more immersive for me, and to have fun i exclusively fly multiplayer.

My comparison is compiled today, 01.11.2014, so future changes could alter my personal ranking, and a year (or even a few month ago) my ranking would be different, too.

I live in central europe, and have fast internet, so a few attributes i describe may be different from your point of view.

I will compare the following flight sims:

- DCS

- Il2-Cliffs of Dover (with Team Fusion Patch 4.312)

- Il2-1946 (with HSFX Mod 7)

- Il2-Battle of Stalingrad

- War Thunder (a lot of you guys definitely wouldn't consider War Thunder as flight sim, but in my opinion the simulator/full real mode of it can definitely be considered as such. The flight models and physics are comparable to Il2-1946, and you still need to behave and fly like a proper pilot - manage your energy, spotting, checking your 6 - a guy who is very good in war thunder won't need to much transition time, to be very good in any other flight sim) [all my tests refer to the early spring 2014 state of the game, because since then i didn't touch it anymore, but what i hear from other people who still play it, not to much has been altered since]

I will rate them in the following aspects:

- Graphics (prettiness, rendering, details, usability of visual effects)

- Multiplayer Gameplay (available servers, population, gameplay mechanics and immersion within the Servers, )

- Damage Model (not the graphical consequences)

- Flight Model

- overall Flight Physics and "feeling" to be in the air

- Content

- Game Design

I don't rate the single player, just because i didn't fly it enough in those games, to make a valuable raking in this category. You guys are appreciated to give your rankings about SP in the comments.

I will explain every choice i made in blue, and i will provide a view into the future, to my current knowledge in green.

So let's get started:

Graphics:

1. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - While the landscape could be considered drab by a few people, and the cockpit is not perfect - but good in my opinion - i think the rendering of aircraft (which is the most important graphical issue in a sim in my opinion) is superb in this game. With a little practice, you will be able to tell which aircraft you see even if it's 5km away (beside Yak and Lagg). I also like the graphical effects, like the exhaust fumes, which you can use as indication, how to set your mixture, and stuff like this. I dislike the fixed presets, and i also dislike that the drawing distance was set down compared to the early alpha version. Hopefully, in the future you will be able to change the graphics manually, but at current state doesn't look as if.

2. DCS - Not to much difference to BoS in terms of the graphical system. Slightly better cockpits, but even at max possible graphics, the drawing distance of the landscape when "zoomed-out" is horrible. Muddy textures all over. But when zoomed in, you will be able to see a lot of details on the ground. Spotting and identification of other aircraft is good though, but doesn't reach BoS. With the confirmed introduction of EDGE the drawing distance and ground graphics will hopefully get better, the rest is already satisfying.

3. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - Landscape, visible damage, and cockpits are definitely the best out there, so this game is definitely eye-candy. BUT, and this is a really big "but", (aircraft) rendering in this game is horrible. Even with all the Mods out there, and graphic tweaks like sweetFX and else (you can find on the ATAG forum) wings of airplanes keep randomly disappearing, when they reach a certain range to you (~1km). In addition there is no zoom-view like in BoS or DCS, it makes identification of aircraft very (unrealistic) hard, and you have to get really close every time, to see if it's friend or foe. Zoom-view is a must in flight simulations IMHO, to simulate the ability of the eye, to focus on something (beside that the human eye has a "resolution" of 20k, and not 1080p like most pc screens). Alongside the bad rendering this is almost game breaking for me, and the main reason i stopped playing it. Definitely very bugged graphic engine released, which apparently and unfortunately can't be fixed by the community

4. War Thunder - This game is the perfect example, of how much the graphics of a game can dazzle someone's opinion. When you take a first look at the environment, airplanes, landscape and so on, this game looks really beautiful, and you can definitely make very nice screenshots in it. But after a while you realize the shortcomings of this game. The ground graphics are like a big background picture, rendering of aircraft is horrible (makes Boom and Zooming close to impossible, because you lose your target once it's below the horizon), there is no "metallic look", everything within the game looks beamless, no reflection or stuff like that. Cockpit looks like made from paperboard. No improvement expected in the future, due to the game's "accessibility to low-spec PCs"

5. Il2 1946 - While the graphics may have been great at release, no one can argue that you clearly notice, that they are 11 years old.

Multiplayer Gameplay:

1. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - You couldn't make it any better then the ATAG server in this game.100 people allowed, very good framerates, no lag, no performance shortcomings. Alongside the SYN server from BoS the most populated WW2-Sim server currently out there, great (semi-)historical scenarios and tasks for the individual types of aircraft. You couldn't make it much better

2. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - You realize, that the "servers to be" like Syn or LD are still under development and testing, and some things have still to be sorted out. But apart that, it doesn't fall short to the great stuff the ATAG guys provided for CloD. Very good performance, very little lag, populated servers in the evening/on the weekend. Great stuff. Servers will definitely become even better, some bug fixes still to do, final version of Dserver coming around the new year, according to the Devs

3. War Thunder - This point is actually the biggest plus factor War Thunder has. Daily event rotation provides a lot of (historical accurate) diversification, it's (no let's say, it should be) a lot of fun, to go tank busting with a Hs129 over Kursk, and fight the Luftwaffe over sicily in a P38 Lightning the next day. Alongside the content, this was actually the reason i didn't stop playing it earlier. There are also a few negatives, like having to wait a long time sometimes, to get into a game, due to there server structure to only get a game started, when the servers are "full". Don't think the general system will be changed.

4. DCS - I feel a little bit sorry for the Dogs of War guys. They are currently the only ones, who run a proper WW2 server in DCS (alongside some never-populated private ones), and they really try hard to make it good. But one have to say, that the online performance of DCS is still very bad, bad framerates, bad performance (no, it's not my PC). In addition, this server is very rarely full (32 people), and there is not much immersion in a dogfight-only server P51-Dora over Georgia and the Black Sea. The bad performance kills the multiplayer currently for me, but with the introduction of EDGE, server stability updates, the (confirmed) introduction of more WW2 warbirds, and the normandy map, the multiplayer will hopefully drag more people in, and thrive in the next years, to provide a good alternation to the BoS(+expansions) series.

5. Il2-1946 - I try to find populated servers with the hyperlobby, but can't find any over ~20 players at any time. Multiplayer seems pretty dead. Can't see that changing

Damage Model:

1. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - In this particular area BoS is miles ahead of any other flight sim. While all the other flight sims out there somehow strengthened their aircraft DMs to almost arcadish extent "because of gameplay reasons", BoS is finally the first one, where the bullets deal historical correct damage. While there are still some issues who need to be tweaked (like the La5 DM), the overall DM modeling is absolutely awesome, realistic, and one of the reasons i love this game so much. Beside the already addressed little flaws, which definitely get fixed, there is nothing to possibly make better.

[2-4] tough ones, because they are all bad

2. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - Like already told, the DMs are to "tanky", aircraft hold to much damage. At least the balance between bombers/fighters seems alright.

3. Il2 1946 - Similar to Clod,overall Dms to tanky, in addition the bombers seem sometimes little to strong compared to fighers.

4. DCS - Well, that's probably the worst part of the DCS game code right now. Way to "tanky" DMs at first, but also damage seems absolutely random, no matter where you hit the fighter, he gets randomly smaller and bigger holes all over the airframe, and at one time (seemingly after his hitpoints reach zero) the engine starts burning. For a simulation, which gloats about being the "most authentic" flight experience possible, this particular area needs a lot of work, and hopefully will get fixed sometime in the future. When, that's the big question

5. War Thunder - Horrible. Awful. Appaling. Disastrous. Can't imagine, that you can make it more game breaking like the current state. Bombers have a DM like death stars, even withstand 100s of 20mm bullets, and almost as many 30mm bullets. Arcade gamers jump into simulator mode, to exploit this, autopiloting around the map, and getting kills after kills, doing nothing, because of that exploit. This particular point was, why i finally said goodbye to this game. Doesn't seem to get altered, because the Devs don't care about the full real category in this game

Flight Model:

1. DCS - This choice is a no brainer. With it's AFM (advanced flight model) the DCS series model every tiny aspect of the planes, from every electric switch you can manually control, to the gunsight adjustments and the manual start up, there is everything in. You also don't need to worry about historical accurate flight performance.

2. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - Lucky me, i didn't purchase Clod at release. Of what i heared, the FMs where broken like hell at release. Luckily the community "fixed" them almost to 100% by now, with every new Team Fusion update, there were further fixes, and right now i would consider the current state of the FMs very good. Smaller tweaks in next TF patches planned, of what i heard, so it's getting even more accurate

3. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - From the early alpha version till now, there was a constant harmonization fromstarting with almost random planes to almost historical accurate performance. While some of the FMs seem not 100% right in every aspect, the Devs made a very good job, and there is definitely no "plane-breaking" flaw left. FMs are still getting fixed, and i think with time, they will only get more and more accurate.

4. Il2 1946 - To be honest, i didn't test all the 200+ aircraft in this game. But what i have flown and tested, the FMs seem ok. 10 years ago they may have been state of the art, but compared to modern sims, they are just a bit simple, in terms of what the aircraft are capable (or not) compared to their real life counterparts.

5. War Thunder - To be honest, i was pretty surprised, that a lot of aircraft in this game match their real life counterparts in terms of performance pretty close. BUT there are a lot of flaws, who can't be overseen. First, the Devs seem to throw new "premium planes" into the game with every update, who don't have certain real life weaknesses (like stalling, dive speed limit etc..), and explain, that they will be fixed "sometime soon". Every reasonable person knows, that this is their business plan, throwing seal clubbing machines in, to sell them in huge numbers, till the next one's will be released. Game braking

Flight Physics/Aircraft Handling:

[i am well aware, that this category maybe very subjective, and sentimental. Some of you may have other opinions then me, i can only speak out of my real life flight experience so far, i explained you in the introduction. If here are pilots around, who have experience flying with 1000hp+ prop planes, i really would appreciate their view about it]

1. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - What can i say. First time i did a test flight in the early alpha, i immediately fell in love with this game. Flying the prop airplanes in this game just feels soooo close to real life prop planes. Have never seen any flight sim, which simulates the feeling of flying a real aircraft so accurate. Now give me 4k oculus and G-forces and i don't need to hop into real aircraft anymore

2. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - Well, flying the aircraft in this game feels also good, a lot better then in all the other sims ... till BoS came out . BoS just set a new levelling board, which has been holded by CloD before.

3. DCS - I have a few issues with the DCS prop planes. Once you are airborne, they feel a little bit like flying on tracks. You could also say like flying in space. You don't feel any winds, any turbulences, any air resistance. It's to easy to hit stuff, like ground forces, because your airplanes just flies straight forward. Once you have your airplane trimmed, you don't need to touch your stick, the aircraft is flying straight forward without any small diversions. While this may be alright when flying heavy jet airplanes, a light prop airplane shouldn't definitely behave like that. Eagle Dynamics is pretty new to prop aircraft (beside the Mustang), so they will hopefully work on the prop plane behaviour in the future. Didn't read anything about this so far.

4.+ 5. Il2 1946 and War Thunder - Not a big difference between those two. Very very simplified flight physics, comparing them to state of the art physics modelling (like above-named) you could almost call theirs "arcade".

Content:

1. War Thunder - No surprise, War Thunder definitely scores in this category. Loads of planes (didn't count them after the last update, should be around ~300-400 by now), loads of theatres/maps, loads of different camouflages, random airplane painting, no shortcomings here. Alongside the daily map rotation, this was the reason i didn't stop playing war thunder for a long time, although i knew that it's a really bad simulation.

2. Il2 1946 - 1946 here the clear number two. 200+ (236?) aircraft (+ around 600 by the community, refering to this in next category), different theatres, thousands of camo's and paintings.

3. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - You all now about those 10 planes, this huge Stalingrad winter map, and our camouflages. I really really hope, that this game will be financial successful, so that the Devs decide to add more planes, theatres and stuff.

4. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - Well i don't count those different versions of 109 as different planes, as i also don't do it with the Spit's and Hurri's. So there are just under 10 different flyable aircraft, and the channel map. Content-wise even to BoS right now, but no hope for further expansions.

5. DCS - Only 2 WW2 planes right now (third one coming within the next days), and one unhistorical map. But with already confirmed introduction of several WW2 aircraft like P40 (poor bird), P47, Me262, Spits etc, and the Normandy map, this will become bigger and bigger.

Game Design:

1. Il2 1946 - definite number one. Complete freedom of mods, whether planes, maps, camo's, graphic tweaks, on and on. You can literally reprogram their game, freedom of choice in every aspect.

2. DCS - every content available from the beginning, very sophisticated graphical options, complete freedom of choice, how to play your game (in terms of difficulty settings and other stuff), mission builder available, visual mods

3. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - every content available from the beginning, different styles of play. Visual mods

4. Il2 Battle of Stalingrad - well this is definitely the worst category of this game. Why they did it, i don't know, and i won't evaluate in this topic. But to force people to play the single player campaign, to unlock stuff in a full-price game is definitely a bad decision. But it's not game breaking, like some folks try to represent. It took me 8 hours to unlock everything i possibly need, from every plane. Bad? Yes! but not gamebreaking. Only the future will show, if graphical adjustments in the game will be enhanced, if user made content may be used in this game, and stuff like that. Let's hope for the best.

5. War Thunder - Pay to progress. You have to unlock every tiny plane, you have to spend a lot of time and money, if you wanna fly mid-war stuff anytime in the future.

MY conclusion(keep in mind, i am a multiplayer, so single players will definitely feel different then me):

1946 has just retired. For a long time, it was the indisputable Nr. one of all flight sims. But nothing can't last forever, and it's time has just come.

War Thunder has way to many flaws in every aspect, absolutely game breaking are the broken FMs of certain sealclubbing planes, and especially the "death stars" (everything with one or more gunners)

Il2 Cliffs of Dover. Well that's a hard one. I reinstalled that game 3 times in the last 9 month, but after flying BoS there is just no going back, not even for more diversification. BoS is better in almost every aspect, and the non existent zoom-view and bad rendering make encounters very chaotic. Flying this game, feels like i am flying a plane in real life without my contact lenses or glasses (i am heavily near-sighted). Getting annoyed.

DCS. Having had the Mustang for a long time, two days ago i bought the Dora and the Sabre in the Steam sale for 10 bucks each. That's definitely an investment into the future. As long as the multiplayer has such a bad performance, i won't touch that game a lot. But i think, this series will become great in the future, and i'll have a lot of fun with it. Until then, my Birds will mainly stay in the hangar, and i very rarely fly them a bit, not to forget how they work

Il2 Battle of Stalingrad. Well, here we are. Just like my title said, this is the only flight sim i am really flying and enjoying right now. Lot of things have become great in this sim, not all for sure. But i definitely can condone the flaws this sim has, just because

- 1. they made so many things right, that i don't care enough about the few things they made wrong

- 2. i have no choice. There isn't any other way. There isn't any other sim, which comes even close to this one, regarding the fun i have in multiplayer. I either play this Sim, or i play no one at all. And i definitely don't quit flight sims, just because the developers made some questionable decisions.

Just some personal words:

Why did i spend 3 hours (please don't laugh, i am not a native english speaker ) writing this compendium?

I have a few reasons:

First of all i think and hope, that there are still a lot of people around, who don't own this game, because they don't know how great it is. Maybe some of them are finding this forum, and are stumbling over my topic, and getting more convinced, to buy it. I also hope, to possibly get some people to reconsider their opinion about this game - compared to other flight sims - who got angered and/or dragged away by the latest design decisions which were made. To remind them, how many things this game handles great, and that all the other flight sims have a lot of shortcommings, too.

And last of all, to all the great people of this community, who still love this game, i hope you will have fun reading my opinions and conclusions.

If you guys have different opinions, don't let yourself asked, just post your own ranking in any category, you wish, and explain yourself, why you see it different to me. I won't comment on any other opinion, but i will definitely read them attentively

Cheers

Edited November 1, 2014 by Celestiale

November 1, 2014

Great read! Excellent overview. This should be reposted in a number of other forums.

"they made so many things right that I don't care enough about the few things they made wrong" amen to that!

Thanks for posting!

Edited November 1, 2014 by 19te.Leaf

November 1, 2014

Thank you for taking the time and effort, we'll put together and informative. The only bit missed perhaps was the A.I and for that I think you would need to include BoB WoV, not forgetting to mention the awesome number of aircraft that that sim could put into the air.

Edited November 1, 2014 by HagarTheHorrible

November 1, 2014

not much to add or critisie from my point of view,

I really love the FM / DM of the BoS engine.... and the spot lights are spot on!

nice read there, much appritiated!

Snappy Salute!

November 1, 2014

Thank you for taking the time to post this. A very well thought out review.

November 1, 2014

I really wanna see anybody progressing to the Mig-15, without spending money, flying exclusively Simulator mode. I think, no matter how much time you spend, you won't reach it. Without premium your profit of money is very low, not to forget the high repair costs in simulator. I myself did spend a lot of money, i had perma-premium, i had all the premium planes. I killed a lot of enemy planes, had a positive k/d ratio. And i spend a lot of time with the game. Nevertheless i was nowhere near the Mig.

Your statement may be possible, playing arcade. Simulator? NO!

But calling me a lier...yeah man,guys like you are really a benefit for this forum..

There was a guy who made a log of how he ground up the 262, it literally took him months. He did it as an experiment more than anything and noted how unpleasant the whole experience was. Tier IV Germany is basically screwed by Gaijin.

November 1, 2014

IL2 CloD has a zoom view?!? you ca zoom in and out just fine. Or what do you mean?

Btw, DCS grafics are worse than BoS, CloD and even WT. Spotting is also worst in DCS (as it was made for BVR comabt anyway)

Rest, I agree, BoS is a great game

November 1, 2014

There was a guy who made a log of how he ground up the 262, it literally took him months. He did it as an experiment more than anything and noted how unpleasant the whole experience was. Tier IV Germany is basically screwed by Gaijin.

did he do it without paying money? i highly doubt that. I also don't know what "month" means. Some guys probably have 100 hours per month to play. Most don't have it.

Yeah the tier stuff is overall screwed in this game. But i didn't wanna take that also into account.

IL2 CloD has a zoom view?!? you ca zoom in and out just fine. Or what do you mean?

Btw, DCS grafics are worse than BoS, CloD and even WT. Spotting is also worst in DCS (as it was made for BVR comabt anyway)

Rest, I agree, BoS is a great game

there is no proper zoom-view. You only can "lean to gunsight" then the stuff in front of your gunsight is becoming a little bit bigger. But no comparison to a proper zoom-view like in BoS or DCS.

To DCS..i don't have problems with spotting in DCS. think it is as easy/good as in BoS. I very rarely lose sight of my "target" when i am fighting another plane.

November 1, 2014

Excellent read and review.

I can't be with you only regarding flight dynamics. I still place DCS World, and it's p51d, t51d and Dora in the very 1st place as well as overall flight dynamics, although the other models don't count as ww2 birds and I only fly the UH-1H appart from the P51d and the Dora...

There is one aspect I am with you though, but that isn't really a problem with the flight dynamics but rather with the present limitations of the Weather model. You don't feel the turbulence and other interesting effects once you are a few hundred feet above ground because they reduce turbulence to 0 linearly with altitude, and I believe about 500' above ground there is no more any turbulence at all :-/

Ah, and I don't know any of the other combat sims you mention - only use Il2bos and dcs-world :-)

Edited November 1, 2014 by jcomm

November 1, 2014

Edit: you apparently don't even have a clue about the meaning of "pay-to-progress"

oh i do... i admit, and feel shame to have used that route, as i am usually a greedy dude and have strayed from the path...
[They said free to play, and when they say free, i want free, everything with no payment whatsoever. Free is free, suckers!!

now gimme all the free planes! You promised!]

But in part i also felt that i got quite a bit of fun out of WT, till BoS really took off, so 50 bucks is an acceptable amount of money, and a compensation for their efforts and continued resources.

trust me - i know what it's like. seen it and done it, also outside the "Plane game" Focus.

November 1, 2014

there is no proper zoom-view. You only can "lean to gunsight" then the stuff in front of your gunsight is becoming a little bit bigger. But no comparison to a proper zoom-view like in BoS or DCS.

To DCS..i don't have problems with spotting in DCS. think it is as easy/good as in BoS. I very rarely lose sight of my "target" when i am fighting another plane.

go to camera control-> change FoV -> profit

November 1, 2014

I almost agree, but the DM is the biggest dissapoitment in this game for me (excluding SP part of the game).

And FM is much much better than CLOD .

November 1, 2014

Celest,

Thanks for putting in the amount of time and effort taken to write this review. I agree with almost everything you say and I also have played BoS exclusively for a few months now, any hour or two I get free I boot it up, even if it's to practice flying a couple of circuits. I just hope enough people out there feel positive enough about this sim to make it the comercial success we hope for.

Cheers.

November 1, 2014

so is it possible?

as leaf said yes.

is it cool? Ha! that is subjective.

But it remains possible.

so techically saying you need to pay, that is a lie.

===================================================

Look, i also have money in WT... bought the Typhoon Ib [sux] and a Mustang A an also spent 25 bucks to get moving forwards faster by pimping my planes with the latest gatling guns and nukes.

I hear where you are coming from.

But when you show off your flight sim experience, and when you want to make a point, i would listen to you more if you stuck to the facts, and be even more unbiased.

Because you said unbiased even in the title, and as such i expected you to make an effort.

but you slipped on the "all planes? impossible without paying" part.

I even understand the grind, the frustration. Which is why i stick to TierIII, with Spitfire, B-25H and some Typhoons. No ambition to get me a Jet. No need to reach for the sky... being a ground attack pilot myself.

No bad feelings, just trying to make you even more unbiased, better, objective.

My statement in the topic was not absolute. It was representative, for most people. I didn't situate it as "absolute fact".

It maybe possible for an ace who kills 4 or 5 planes per sortie, and never gets killed himself.

It maybe possible, within ~2000 hours + when you are a good pilot.

So is it impossible to unlock every plane without money? No it isn't

But talking for the majority of people (including me) it's close to impossible, regarding our skills (getting hit and shot down regularly), and regarding how much free time we have, and spend with this game.

It was a representative statement for the populace! Calling me a lier, or taking my whole topic into doubt, because of that is just redicoulous.

And "pay-to-progress" doesn't mean at all, that you have to pay to progress in the game. It just means, that you progress faster, when you spend money. Battlefield, Fifa, War Thunder, they are all "pay-to-progress". So it's maybe a language problem, why you didn't entirely get it

go to camera control-> change FoV -> profit

is this also possible, when you look behind you, or sideways? i know that you can zoom onto your gunsight. but it's really disorientating, to have your view fixed to the gunsight, when in "zoom-mode".

November 1, 2014

c'mon man calling WT simulator

, what exactly is simulated in that game mod, just because its caled simulator by teir developers it doesn't mean it is

but its amusing to read what WT gamer (from post im guesing you started and spend most of game flying in WT out of all 5 games) think about sims you listed in post, as this is the gamer's BoS is hunting for

Edited November 1, 2014 by Yakmaster

November 1, 2014

It's probably not the FMs lacking in DCS but the weather dynamics like turbulences, up-/downwinds ect which seem to be missing completely (which doesn't wonder as the basic sim is actually pretty dated).

Not sure about the DMs though.Some planes in Clod have extraordinarily detailed DMs (He 111 for example) while in BoS it seems more "rudementary" (only important critical modules and overstress damage).

Regarding the unlock system it's probably worth mentioning that some people are more turned off by the fact they're forced to unlock sth in a way they don't like to, thus restricting their freedom and fun ingame.

The campaign might be subject of critics though overall the forcing system is the main bugger in my opinion, which also reflects in graphic / difficulty settings ect.

November 1, 2014

is this also possible, when you look behind you, or sideways? i know that you can zoom onto your gunsight. but it's really disorientating, to have your view fixed to the gunsight, when in "zoom-mode".

sure, it is exactly the same as in DCS, BoS, RoF and WT. It's just not called "zoom" but "change of FoV"

don't tell me you played the game for years without this

November 1, 2014

sure, it is exactly the same as in DCS, BoS, RoF and WT. It's just not called "zoom" but "change of FoV"

don't tell me you played the game for years without this

i didn't play it for years, i played it after quitting WT, simultaneously with early alpha from BoS, for around ~100 hours. But i didn't know that thx a lot for your enlightenment. To bad that i can't edit my topic anymore.

You just convinced me, to give it another try

November 1, 2014

your welcome!

November 1, 2014

Despite their lovely work I couldn't really get into CloD withthe TF patches. It is still too buggy for me and the interface is a reall horror to go threw. Too bad so much potential has been lost with it.

DCS has no WW2 multiplayer nor the ressources to support one, which is a pity. It can be pretty fun, though you have to be very passionated and forgiving to fly your Fw 190 above a totally dated looking black sea map against solem Mustangs at best. EDGE is hopefully the beacon for a better future to come.

November 1, 2014

Very good article there, and much appreciated for your time to put it all down.

Obviously is an opinion article and I don't identify myself with some of your but a great presentation nonetheless.

Interesting that almost no one brings WW2OL to the table, and was quite entertaining and had good flight and damage modelling.

November 1, 2014

Content:

4. Il2 Cliffs of Dover - Well i don't count those different versions of 109 as different planes, as i also don't do it with the Spit's and Hurri's. So there are just under 10 different flyable aircraft, and the channel map. Content-wise even to BoS right now, but no hope for further expansions.

To correct you, this is not actually accurate. The team fusion 5.0 patch will add another theater (mediterranean), and new flyable aircraft, the wellingon among them (there is a video of very early test footage out already). So it is being added to, just slowly because it's all done by volunteers.

I'd TL/DR the op and say if you don't have CLoD you should get it, because if you pay attention you can get it for 10 dollars, and at that price, the value back is outstanding.

November 1, 2014

To correct you, this is not actually accurate. The team fusion 5.0 patch will add another theater (mediterranean), and new flyable aircraft, the wellingon among them (there is a video of very early test footage out already). So it is being added to, just slowly because it's all done by volunteers.

I'd TL/DR the op and say if you don't have CLoD you should get it, because if you pay attention you can get it for 10 dollars, and at that price, the value back is outstanding.

yep, i know, just don't know when they are going to release it. Nothing new about this for a long time. With "no hope for further expansions" i meant developer made expansions. I appreciate, and welcome it, if the community really accomplishes it, to release a proper working new "modul". I'll give CloD another try anyway, Volker convinced me before. A pitty that i can't edit my topic post.

One of the actual reasons i wrote it, was to get more opinions, and more information, about all of that, and what you think. Now i only would like to correct my false claims, but not possible

November 1, 2014

Thank you for taking the time and effort, we'll put together and informative. The only bit missed perhaps was the A.I and for that I think you would need to include BoB WoV, not forgetting to mention the awesome number of aircraft that that sim could put into the air.

To be fair he did say a couple of times that he's a MP-only type of guy, so AI isn't really an issue for him.

Anyhow, thanks Celestiale for a really great post. Not necessarily for your conclusions but more for the logical and dispassionate way in which you reached them (and your considered answers to corrections). There is a lot of tribalism in our community and to cut through it in a way that (I believe) no one can really take offence is worthy of praise

November 1, 2014

Danke, Celestiale!

Tha took alot of time and effort. While we disagree on a few small points, you still hit it out of the ballpark.

I'm surprised you didn't discuss AI, but if you are primarily an MP guy it's understandable. As a single player 99% of the time, AI takes on a huge importance. Of the sims you took into consideration (except War Thunder, which I have never played) I would have to rank BoS at the top. Sure, my Katschmarek still does some stupid stuff, but the enemy AI is very good and very believable. As regards CoD, I think it could be a very enjoyable sime someday if TF contiues tweaking it- but when I set up a 1V1 engagement and the enemy simply flies past me , not once really trying to engage or mix it up, and flies blissfully on-

time for me to move blissfully on as well. I really hope they can fix the AI in CoD someday.

In the meantime, I am very grateful for BoS.

S!

November 1, 2014

"WW2OL." - I play that game almost daily (as "grunt"), but with those graphics the "War Thunder Generation" will say that is Nintendo 64 game...

November 1, 2014

To correct you, this is not actually accurate. The team fusion 5.0 patch will add another theater (mediterranean), and new flyable aircraft, the wellingon among them (there is a video of very early test footage out already). So it is being added to, just slowly because it's all done by volunteers. I'd TL/DR the op and say if you don't have CLoD you should get it, because if you pay attention you can get it for 10 dollars, and at that price, the value back is outstanding.

When they fix the DM of the planes I'll cry tears of joy. Right now its just stupid shoot all your cannon ammo in one spit and it just continues to fly, like nothing happened. This is the reason Im stopping playing CloD and now I only play BoS and the good old 1946.

November 1, 2014

Good read. Btw zoom in-out in CLoD was added in TF 4.0 pach. U can find in camera menu.

November 1, 2014

I find it odd you're comparing 1946 and War Thunder. Coming from 1946 and spending half of the past 10 years of my life playing it, I can't see much comparison in the flight models. For an example.. In any of the German fighter campaigns on the Eastern Front in 1946, you're basically seal clubbing I-16's in your 109's.. It's no match. The I-16 in War Thunder has a 16sec turn time and can climb at over 3600ft/min, that's outclimbing even the Me-262 by nearly 2000ft, and the Russian aircraft in general never lose energy in WT.

What translates in my mind with you're comparing them, is Gaijin made a game as good as 1C:Maddox Games (The legend). The only reason why I still play WT, is because it's popular, and a lot of people play it. Regardless, the FM/DM's piss me off so much, I can't enjoy it unless I'm drinking.

But concerning the other games, I agree, but even Clod's age is rapidly showing.. And hopefully DCS gets their shit together soon.

.. I can't even imagine right now, how kick ass this game would be with community mods.

November 1, 2014

IL2 CloD has a zoom view?!? you ca zoom in and out just fine.

It means the variable zoom axis was originally assigned to the mouse axis+modifier and it was non mappable. Not very useful. I thought TF added an assignable command for that. You can set it up on a custom axis with JoyToKey. But yes it was a terrible miss on the game design.

Edited November 1, 2014 by SharpeXB

November 1, 2014

The OP forget "expandability" in this "compare", in which il-2 is very good: support for user skins, missions, campaings, campaign generator, easy to use FMB...

November 2, 2014

The OP forget "expandability" in this "compare", in which il-2 is very good: support for user skins, missions, campaings, campaign generator, easy to use FMB...

Yes, especially for old'gits that saw all this gaming history, replay-ability and scale-ability is a must.

But he compares the present states. Would also be unfair towards DCS which given its more study oriented nature still gives a solid FMB and a future engine upgrade

November 2, 2014

I find BOS a decent combat flight sim, and hopefully we will see many years of improvements to the game engine and features. The only aspect I find better/more realistic in BOS than COD is the ability to shoot down aircraft. The COD damage model is more complex, but I find it unrealistically difficult to shoot down aircraft. The hit boxes in BOS are bigger, and less complex, but feels more realistic. I find it more satisfying flying BOS in that respect. Having been a weapons tech in the RCAF many years ago, I've seen up close the damage that can be done even with multiple 303 rounds. I'm sure we will see many years of improvements with both game engines and features.

November 2, 2014

S!

Hat off for the effort comparing the games, a bit broad generalisations here and there, but in the right ballpark. Positive surprise. Mark it up somewhere and let's see in another year what has changed in your own attitude and in games we have to fly. I bet the "flight sim honeymoon" is already over by then and awakening to reality will come. The more you fly and know, the harder it is to enjoy the games. You begin to spot certain things easier and soon they start to annoy you and so forth. It comes with the hobby, sooner or later. For me the realisation came when I flew more than 300 hours per month online in Aces High 2 and IL-2. You knew most of the ways to game the games, could ID your opponent from first moves he made and so forth. An automated process. The limitations of the simulators became so apparent that you just mechanically "flew" them while talking on TS with other virtual pilots. Needless to say it nearly wrecked my health and burned me out on "flight sims" as I was also working full time. Slept very little Seeing BoS materialize after CloD fiasco raised hopes that maybe now we get something special. And in many ways we did, no doubt there. But it did not take long before those sensations and observations of the limits our games have come back, even in BoS. Needless to say a bit of flak came out. So after evaluation of BoS and other things decision to sack BoS for now is clear.

The game has great potential and is well done(mostly), but the limitations are too clear to see. They have not changed much over the years. Graphics are OK, could be even better with some *cough* changes. Plane models and cockpits are very nice. Effects and lighting are well done and the map looks like a cold place, Zeus's map surpasses Stalingrad though. More interesting topography. MP works and for sure will get better after DServer and FMB are released, more content. SP seems to be in the pipeline, so hopes for it improving as well. Just leave the unlocks out in the future Overall BoS works very well "out of the box", better than many other games. Let it mature and it will get the well deserved position as the new WW2 game.

TL;DR Mostly agree that BoS has all the key elements right. Just needs more work to really shine.

Edited November 2, 2014 by LLv34_Flanker

November 2, 2014

Celestiale what a gr8 complete review. One question is about CloD what do you mean about zoom in view.? Check this video and tell me if it what you mean

November 2, 2014

I really wanna see anybody progressing to the Mig-15, without spending money, flying exclusively Simulator mode. I think, no matter how much time you spend, you won't reach it. Without premium your profit of money is very low, not to forget the high repair costs in simulator. I myself did spend a lot of money, i had perma-premium, i had all the premium planes. I killed a lot of enemy planes, had a positive k/d ratio. And i spend a lot of time with the game. Nevertheless i was nowhere near the Mig.

Your statement may be possible, playing arcade. Simulator? NO!

But calling me a lier...yeah man,guys like you are really a benefit for this forum..

Edit: you apparently don't even have a clue about the meaning of "pay-to-progress"

Well that's why it's free to play. You hit a wall eventually where progression becomes difficult without premium, but that's the entire business model of every single F2P game. Anyway, I think I worked through 80% of every single nation within 2 or 3 weeks in sim mode? If you consistently make a lot of kills in sim you progress insanely fast.

Also the cost of premium is pretty trivial. Just buy a full year on the relatively frequent 50% discounts, which drops the cost to about 35 dollars. It's not entirely reasonable to expect the whole game to be easily accesible without paying a dime for it.

Edited November 2, 2014 by iLOVEwindmills

November 2, 2014

Guys sorry for possible small mistakes i made in my topic, really glad that you advised me of some things, i just didn't know.

Like flanker said

a bit broad generalisations here and there, but in the right ballpark

that's of course true. I didn't go in every tiny detail, that would have taken ages, and i think noone would have read through this novel afterall I wanted to do a diversified review over all of them. Only thing that bothers me is, that i can't edit my misjudging in the first post - especially the zoom-thing in CloD, where your explanations got me to fire it up again (just did it ) and give it another try. I hope noone only reads my first post, but reads also the comments you made (not all of them, a few are really bollocks )

Sorry i didn't take WW2OL into account, i just didn't know that it's still played by a lot of people, and i just don't have it, so i couldn't have done any valuations anyway.

Your explanations about the missing weather systems in DCS, and how it affects the flying itself seems plausible, if i repost my topic anytime, i will definitely bring that also into account.

Anyway, thanks for all your (mostly) positive feedback, you really encourage me to write such a long essay sometime soon again (if there will rise up something new and interesting to write about, what we definitely all hope )

Cheers

Edited November 2, 2014 by Celestiale

November 2, 2014

"WW2OL." - I play that game almost daily (as "grunt"), but with those graphics the "War Thunder Generation" will say that is Nintendo 64 game...

I was subbed once but nowdays I cant play with those graphics even if I feel a need sometimes, I rather play Red Orchestra.

I would however gladly try to fly it but it seems you have to be subbed to be able to fly, this free-to-play thing they have is a joke

although they seem to have fixed the prices now since I checked.

November 2, 2014

Your explanations about the missing weather systems in DCS, and how it affects the flying itself seems plausible, if i repost my topic anytime, i will definitely bring that also into account.

Celestiale, unfortunately I don't think it might get addressed with the release of EDGE, buit I posted today a query at their forums ..., so, IL2 BOS«'s weather modeling will stil win the competition, and I do find it rather plausible in terms of wind modeling, including turbulence effects.

Edited November 2, 2014 by jcomm

November 2, 2014

Nice post

I enjoyed reading it a lot

Reasons why i almost exclusively play BoS - unbiased WW2-sim ranking

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