The Aircraft Position Indication [Expert Mode]..

[II./JG77_Manu*]

..was the worst decision the Devs made so far, alongside the unlocks (please don't discuss this issue in this topic), in my opinion.

 

Navigation was such a big, important part of the airwar. Especially for bombers. Planning your route, keeping yourself to landmarks, recognize those landmarks, change your course to find the next landmark. I remember how much fun we (several different fellow pilots on different days) had with our 111, doing supply missions on the Eagle Nest server. constantly looking around for the landmarks we wanted to hold on, fearing to get off course. So immersive. So much fun.

This all now fell apart, because of that stupid (sorry for my rude words, but i am really angry about this) decision to show your aircraft position all the time, like in an arcade game. Now it's just looking at the map, get your airplane "in line", hit the autopilot and get bored. Nice

 

Another point. Hm, most of the russian planes have an unlock, called Rpk-10. This is a special compass, who leads you to your homebase. Well, that's absolute pointless now. I wonder what the Devs where thinking, when they introduced this device in the game, especially as an unlock?!

 

Point of the whole story. The position indication removes a lot of the immersion in the Expert Servers/Expert SP mode...really sad

Edited October 28, 2014 by Celestiale

[SharpeXB]

Yes. This feature should not be available in Expert

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I agree in normal mode its fine but in expert mode half the fun is navigation it brought back great memories of cross country's when I got my ppl no GPS just pure DR using clocks and headings.

[VRPilot]

111 where no one-man planes. See it as your navigator. But yes, Position is top accurate. Also we miss ground control that would lead you by giving vectors and altitudes

[AbortedMan]

Add this to the list of things that boggle the mind regarding this game's design.

[Sokol1]

The premise is that navigate in this snow scenery will be hard even for "hardcore virpilot", so the "GPS" (Info on the other forum). Anyway hit (I) before look at the map.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

The premise is that navigate in this snow scenery will be hard even for "hardcore virpilot", so the "GPS" (Info on the other forum). Anyway hit (I) before look at the map.

 

Not at all. I am not a "hardcore pilot", i started virtual aviation less then a year ago. But i had no (big) problems with navigation, maybe 5% i went off course, pretty much like it was in real life. Of course you first have to get familiar a little bit with the whole scenery, but after a while you get used to it. It was just right, how it was.

[Gustang]

I tend to agree and really like to use navigation via features, but also realize many do not.   I think the (mostly) white terrain would be frustrating for most.   Rivers are the usually the biggest positional help from altitude and they're pretty hard to see in this game.   I'm guessing this was a hard decision to make. 

 

Have you tried printing a map and simply deny yourself access to the in-game map?   You can see your mission path prior to launch and a clear sleeve and a dry-erase marker might just make things more immersive.  

Edited October 28, 2014 by Gustang

[303_Kwiatek]

Yea definitly it should be off in expert mode.  The same like radar showing enemy planes near bases.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I tend to agree and really like to use navigation via features, but also realize many do not.   I think the (mostly) white terrain would be frustrating for most.   Rivers are the usually the biggest positional help from altitude and they're pretty hard to see in this game.   I'm guessing this was a hard decision to make. 

 

Have you tried printing a map and simply deny yourself access to the in-game map?   You can see your mission path prior to launch and a clear sleeve and a dry-erase marker might just make things more immersive.  

 

you have to learn navigation, like you have to learn takeoff or landing. Even nowadays in the time of satellite GPS in every tiny prop plane, navigation makes a big part of the flight school. Because it's still regarded important. If you are not willing to learn it, just go to normal mode and have fun there. Or even better: Let the server hosts decide with complete custom settings

 

to your second points yes. i have thought about that. but "the" other day (could be any day), my fellow wingman jells "where are you bud" i say " 1km southwest of basargino, 2km alt", he cries "give me a grid, bud!"   well, so far we have come in the "full real mode"..sad

Edited October 28, 2014 by Celestiale

[IIN8II]

Maybe have it so that when you click the "my plane" button, it will zoom to your approximate area but there is no icon, also have it not show enemy plane icons either.

[unreasonable]

Surely this is optional - using the "O" map with instruments off does not show any plane marker: if you press the my plane button it just zooms to your location.

 

(At least that is what it did a week ago when I last played - BoS too unstable when I stopped to be worth the effort).

[=AVG=Zombie]

Funny, i dont see this anymore in expert mode... just me? All I see is the map, and yes even on the O map.. believe me wish i had that a few times....

[Sokol1]

But, if configured EXPERT dont show "GPS" (& "DI" = Digital Instrument panel) by default (is optional)... Unless ours "hardcore virpilots" complaining about "GPS" are using "DI"...

 

If are the case, ease solution: add "O" for "Change Ingame Instrument Panel Mode" - besides the default "I" - so by pressing "O" you turn on Map full screen but at same time turn OFF the "GPS" (tied to Instrument Panel due "Less keys is better" rule) and don't see your plane position on map. Tahdah! Next "O" press turn OFF map and turn ON the Instrument Panel.  

[FZG_Merlin]

remove this noobish option from expert mode ASAP

[312_strycekFido]

map icon and my plane button should be a difficulty/realism option, which is off in expert mode

[FZG_Merlin]

Funny, i dont see this anymore in expert mode... just me? All I see is the map, and yes even on the O map.. believe me wish i had that a few times....

 

'i'

 

will toggle it, same as the digital compass on the bottom left.

[fdswer]

Don't use it then

[coconut]

'i'

 

will toggle it, same as the digital compass on the bottom left.

 

Interesting. The other day I was playing on the hard metal server and at some point pressed "I" to start my engine (wrong game...). That apparently had no effect. Later I noticed my compass was not visible, and neither was my position on the map. I thought this was a realism setting on the server, and just dealt with it.

 

Not so easy at first, but with a bit of planning and studying the map before taking-off, it's feasible. I still managed to make a mistake and drop bombs on the wrong airfield, but I guess this kind of error happens IRL too.

 

Fortunately, those were small bombs and they missed their target. No damage done. My incompetence at map-reading was countered by my lack of aim.

Edited October 28, 2014 by -IRRE-coconut

[Y-29.Silky]

I agree! Navigation was fun, and now especially, enemy aircraft also show up on the map, it's absolutely ridiculous!


This needs to be removed on Expert Mode.

Don't use it then

But what happens when your enemy is stalking you because of it? Knows where you are most of the time? It's putting you at a disadvantage, a huge one at that. No handicap like this should be present in expert mode.

[PA-Sniv]

Guys, you can disable it permanently : settings > flight interface > ingame messages > off

But I agree, this should be a server side option.

 

Cheers,

[=AVG=Zombie]

'i'

 

will toggle it, same as the digital compass on the bottom left.

OOOHHHHHH, thanks....

[BlackDevil]

MP:   This needs to become a server side option. NO WAY this stays like this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

SP:    I don´t care

Edited October 28, 2014 by BlackDevil

[LAL_Luny]

Hi

 

O and I do the trick for SP. You can choose what you like.

 

In MP I agree it should be server's choice.

 

When we played MP in the old days of IL2 with the FZG it was part of the mission and was real important not to loose your wingmates and not to loose the squadron on the whole map. We had tactics for that and map knowledge (landmarks) was a life matter.

 

We just flew by the clock : heading on cape 30 at 350kmh during 7mn means you are here (or should be) then find the landmark and so on. I used plastic scale map to do the navigation as if on a ship. Its part of the fun for real coop MP

 

My 2 cents

Edited October 28, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[BlackDevil]

Please vote:  http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12336-navigation-icon-map-expert-mode/

[JG5_Schuck]

I personally think its not the only thing that should be an option in Expert Mode.

 

No head zoom. If you need to see if its a bad guy, get up his butt and see!

 

Id like to see a clean map, ie no waypoints, markers or anything else.

 

No HUD other than chat for multiplayer.

 

To go to all the trouble of making such a good game with working gauges and indicators just to stick  'helps and technical info' (engine modes, auto prop pitch, flaps down.......... etc etc) on the screen is just daft!!!

 

There has to be options to turn this stuff off.

 

If in multiplayer one person is not using it and another, its basically cheating.

 

I always fly with a clean screen, you really get to know the plane, have to keep an eye on the temp gauges ALL the time.

You have to learn which are the oil rad, water rads, mixture, throttle, supercharger levers etc... and their positions.

 

 For me it has to be as close to the real thing as we can get, after all, its a flight simulator with guns, not World of Warplanes!!!

[Tompa_73]

Hi

 

O and I do the trick for SP. You can choose what you like.

 

In MP I agree it should be server's choice.

 

When we played MP in the old days of IL2 with the FZG it was part of the mission and was real important not to loose your wingmates and not to loose the squadron on the whole map. We had tactics for that and map knowledge (landmarks) was a life matter.

 

We just flew by the clock : heading on cape 30 at 350kmh during 7mn means you are here (or should be) then find the landmark and so on. I used plastic scale map to do the navigation as if on a ship. Its part of the fun for real coop MP

 

My 2 cents

 

Yes but its not the old days of 46 now, there are new people now that have no idea what you are talking about.

There should be tools(given from the DEVS or mods) though that both newbs and vets can use so both sides can be happy with.

Navigation will probably be the hardest thing for newbs if you go full hardcore all the way. Just saying, there have to be an effort

from the HQ people then to share their knowledge beacuse these things are totally alien for alot of people.

[wellenbrecher]

The GPS and constantly updated and pin-point correct symbols for enemy targets is really annoying, aye.

But so is the techno-chat telling you all these ridiculous details you should be forced to find out yourself, like continuous/climb/boosted mode and whatever.

 

Someone made suggestion the other day for a third difficulty setting that has everything turned off, and I feel that that would be very much an improvement.

Yes, you can turn off the aids with H, but I for one don't see why I should limit myself that way if the EXP reward is not increased.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

 

The GPS and constantly updated and pin-point correct symbols for enemy targets is really annoying, aye.

But so is the techno-chat telling you all these ridiculous details you should be forced to find out yourself, like continuous/climb/boosted mode and whatever.

 

Someone made suggestion the other day for a third difficulty setting that has everything turned off, and I feel that that would be very much an improvement.

Yes, you can turn off the aids with H, but I for one don't see why I should limit myself that way if the EXP reward is not increased.

Completely in, there is a desperate need of a third, "full real" mode. I start to understand the People calling this game "Arcade" (still a huge exaggeration, but no more 100% sim, unfortunatly) Edited October 28, 2014 by Celestiale

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I personally think its not the only thing that should be an option in Expert Mode.

 

No head zoom. If you need to see if its a bad guy, get up his butt and see!

 

Id like to see a clean map, ie no waypoints, markers or anything else.

 

No HUD other than chat for multiplayer.

 

To go to all the trouble of making such a good game with working gauges and indicators just to stick  'helps and technical info' (engine modes, auto prop pitch, flaps down.......... etc etc) on the screen is just daft!!!

 

There has to be options to turn this stuff off.

 

If in multiplayer one person is not using it and another, its basically cheating.

 

I always fly with a clean screen, you really get to know the plane, have to keep an eye on the temp gauges ALL the time.

You have to learn which are the oil rad, water rads, mixture, throttle, supercharger levers etc... and their positions.

 

 For me it has to be as close to the real thing as we can get, after all, its a flight simulator with guns, not World of Warplanes!!!

I don't use the zoom fuction to see the enemy better I use it to get a realistic FOV ie zoom out.

[LAL_Luny]

@Sturmnoob

 

I know

 

Its why i say it should be your choice in SP.

 

In MP we learnt it the the hard way at some point (All of us were newbs at some point even if it was long ago)

 

It s why its also important to have closed dedicated servers for squads so that veterans can "teach" newcommers how to do.

 

Navigation is real hard because you have to do maths while you fly. A real plastic map and removable stencils help a lot. You draw your route so you know  which cape at which speed for how long.

 

In EAW Fighter Squadron and early IL2, iwas taught by more competent people, now Im ready to share. The full hardcore way is a possibility for those who want in this game but it has a possibility to go through a learning curve. Flying MP in a squad is part of it.

Edited October 28, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[SharpeXB]

No head zoom. If you need to see if its a bad guy, get up his butt and see!

 

Id like to see a clean map, ie no waypoints, markers or anything else.

Zoom view isnt a cheat. The real world is bigger than your monitor.

And it's normal in the real world for a pilot to have a map with a mission plan on it.

[LAL_Luny]

And it's normal in the real world for a pilot to have a map with a mission plan on it.

 

The mission plan yes, where you are on it no

[II./JG77_Manu*]

Zoom view isnt a cheat. The real world is bigger than your monitor.

And it's normal in the real world for a pilot to have a map with a mission plan on it.

Agree on this. Monitor can never achieve real life view, so zoom is needed (at least till arrival of 8k oculus rift), because IRL your eyes can focus on objects far away. Spotting and recognizing the typ of aircraft ~5km away is Definitely possible IRL, so it should be in game. This was actually the Main reason, which dragged me away from Clod.

[LAL_Luny]

A couple of videos from the RAF to show how navigation was dealt with at the time :

 

Thanks to Bolt Checksix forums Fr :

 

 

Edited October 28, 2014 by FZG_Luny

[Sokol1]

This "GPS" on MP EXPERT is other new decision on game design: the choice in be "hardcore" or not should be player choice and not imposed on him by the server. So if one fell in disadvantage,  your only option is became less "hardcore" and turn these aids ON. Welcome to 2014 simulation. 

[avlSteve]

Navigating is a huge part of it, but also is hugely challenging.  There probably needs to 3 difficulty settings other than custom: Normal, Expert, and Full Real.  Full real is like expert without the HUD compass and GPS icon.

[LAL_Luny]

As of for now I only fly the two BF and the FW and I know exactly where to look at in my cockpit to know my direction. And a couple of other things (temps rad flaps fuel level...).

 

It s like when Im in my car (i drive 3 different ones) I know where to look at to check things, and where the knobs are without looking.

[Sparrer]

S!

 

Congrats devs, you just ruined best il2 series features

[wellenbrecher]

Navigating is a huge part of it, but also is hugely challenging. 

The funny thing is that it's not even that hard on the Stalingrad map.   

As long as you know which side of the Volga you were on it's nearly impossible to get lost.