IL2 pitch trimming after takeoff

[mbv]

After the last update I find that immediately after takeoff and levelling out with the IL-2 the plane seems to be in auto lawn dart mode and constantly tries to descend. I have to pitch up very quickly to around -2 pitch and then make finer adjustments during the rest of the flight to keep it level. RPM generally at 75-79%. Is this behaviour realistic ? Before the last update everything was less dramatic with pitch trimming and only minor adjustments were needed, now it feels like a lead balloon !

[pilotpierre]

I havent found this problem. Have you experimented with some trim adjustment prior to taking off?

[mbv]

Problem is that prior to takeoff I don't know whether I need to trim it or not. I wait to see how it reacts in level flight and trim from that point. 

[unreasonable]

I have been experiencing trimming problems as well and not just in the IL-2. The first time I reset trim it feels as though the nose is going all over the place. Once it has settled down later trim changes seem more natural.

 

In the last update it was mentioned that default trim had been set to cruise speed.  This would mean generally speaking slightly nose heavy or neutral, I should think. Previously, the trim was always set in the middle of the range at mission start.

 

I am still trying to figure this out: in addition, in "Campaign" mode you only have a few seconds to get all your levers in the right position, adjust flaps, trim etc, before your wingman takes off ahead of you (and crashes turning back), or just ploughs into you.

 

I feel a suggestion to developers coming on....

[Finkeren]

Unreasonable is right. Since last update trim is automatically set to cruise speed trim from the start of the mission. Great if you're flying short missions and starting in the air. Not so great if you start on the runway (though in that case you ofc have the opportunity to set the trim correctly before taking off.

[mbv]

Thanks for the info. on the new cruise speed trim with the last patch. I wasn't sure what that meant in the patch log, but if it is now setting the nose heavy that could explain things. I'll compensate before takeoff as suggested and see how that goes.

[312_strycekFido]

Maybe it would be good idea, if devs set the trim to cruise, when you starting in the air and to takeoff (or neutral) when you're starting from the ground.

[Finkeren]

Maybe it would be good idea, if devs set the trim to cruise, when you starting in the air and to takeoff (or neutral) when you're starting from the ground.

 

Would be, but there might be coding reasons for why it's not that easy to do.

[Obelix]

Same problem with me, trim is "on diving" position, and during campaign mission, you'd better take off very quickly because your IA wingmen will try on you some Taran on ground method!! Can't understand, why there no "take off command / order" for ia wingmen like the "go home and landing" order! Something to change?

[312_strycekFido]

Would be, but there might be coding reasons for why it's not that easy to do.

 

I don't really see any problem with this, besides programmer lazyness. (I am lazy programmer mysefl:) ) They already differentiate with stuff like running engine or landing gear and there's probably more stuff that is set differently on air and ground start.

[39bn_pavig]

I don't mind the current system. For air starts it is fine as long as you tweak your controls for cruise before disengaging autolevel. For full missions it makes sense to check your trim before takeoff anyway (though it would be nice on normal to have it preset.) It is a good habit to reset trim from time to time and retrim the craft at certain times during a flight anyway. 

 

The one thing I would say is that reset trim should truly neutralize controls. There is no "correct" trim as depending on the situation you may wish to trim for economy cruise or speed/power so that has to be pilot choice. 

 

I actually quite like the current IL2 default trim for takeoff. The nose down aspect naturally lifts the rear wheel during acceleration and makes it almost hands off before pulling for lift... but that's probably personal preference. 

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Unreasonable is right. Since last update trim is automatically set to cruise speed trim from the start of the mission. Great if you're flying short missions and starting in the air. Not so great if you start on the runway (though in that case you ofc have the opportunity to set the trim correctly before taking off.

 

Sort of a "One Shoe Fits All" approach huh?

[Finkeren]

Sort of a "One Shoe Fits All" approach huh?

 

I'd say more of a "let's help out those that need it the most" approach.

 

People who fly short missions start in the air and will need the trimming right away. People who fly full missions start on the ground with a few seconds to spare to set trim.

[unreasonable]

OK, ran a test and have this figured out now.  The devs have made a mistake. The aircraft starts the mission trimmed not for cruise but for high speed, but the trim indicator is still centred.

 

Start a quick mission - I used F-4 because we can see the number.  At start, the trim indicator is showing about -1.5, (slightly tail heavy) which is where it was before the changes IIRC. This is in the middle of the range of trim for the F-4.

 

Do not adjust before take-off: you will immediately feel that the plane is trimmed more nose heavy than the indicator is showing, no stick forward is necessary, (which is how I always used to t/o anyway).

 

Achieve a safe height and throttle back to cruise RPM, let speed stabilize. 2300 RPM  (max continuous) is combat cruise for an F-4, but the plane is still noticeably nose heavy.

 

So now push the button to make the trim a little MORE nose heavy, say from -1.5 to 0 - the plane pitches UP sharply!

 

Why? This can only be because the trim indicator is not showing the actual trim at the start of the mission. It was actually at, say +2, so when you set it to 0 this is a move to a more tail heavy position, even though you thought you were trimming nose down.

 

So the solution is that you have to move the trim all the way to the end of it's range before take-off and then set it where you want - same deal as the throttle and other sliders - otherwise you are going to get bizarre movements when you trim to climb.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

I'd say more of a "let's help out those that need it the most" approach.

 

People who fly short missions start in the air and will need the trimming right away. People who fly full missions start on the ground with a few seconds to spare to set trim.

 

Point taken.

 

Chief

[unreasonable]

And by bizarre movements I mean that you can go from level flight to pointing straight up in the air by adjusting trim nose down by a fraction of a degree!

 

Just tested again - it is actually more than +2, which actually allows for level flight at 2300.

Edited October 13, 2014 by unreasonable

[mbv]

Good info there unreasonable - explains why everything was acting weird and nose heavy for me. I think I preferred it the way it was before the last patch. Most new people coming to this are going to wonder why the hell their plane wants to dive when levelling out after takeoff and will probably just end up compensating with the joy pitch without knowing they need to trim - quite a learning curve.

[unreasonable]

Yes, I would agree that the old system was better: I have put in a bug report and also a note in the DD thread to see if we can get a bit of TLC: at the moment the Fw issue is still hogging the thread. Wish they had never included it in the game.

[Talisman]

I have been experiencing trimming problems as well and not just in the IL-2. The first time I reset trim it feels as though the nose is going all over the place. Once it has settled down later trim changes seem more natural.

 

In the last update it was mentioned that default trim had been set to cruise speed.  This would mean generally speaking slightly nose heavy or neutral, I should think. Previously, the trim was always set in the middle of the range at mission start.

 

I am still trying to figure this out: in addition, in "Campaign" mode you only have a few seconds to get all your levers in the right position, adjust flaps, trim etc, before your wingman takes off ahead of you (and crashes turning back), or just ploughs into you.

 

I feel a suggestion to developers coming on....

Pitch control issue are reflected all over the forum in one form or another and seem to effect some but not others and also problems with pitch appear to happen after updates when they did not happen before.  Whether it is the FM or a problem with the allocation of controls/key recognition I do not know, but something is wrong somewhere.  I have mostly given up flying BoS due to this.  The only planes I can fly anywhere near properly, due to pitch and or trim control issues, is the 109f and the FW.  This must be fixed for release or I can see BoS failing as a product.

Edited October 14, 2014 by 56RAF_Talisman

[Gustaf]

Pitch control issue are reflected all over the forum in one form or another and seem to effect some but not others and also problems with pitch appear to happen after updates when they did not happen before.  Whether it is the FM or a problem with the allocation of controls/key recognition I do not know, but something is wrong somewhere.  I have mostly given up flying BoS due to this.  The only planes I can fly anywhere near properly, due to pitch and or trim control issues, is the 109f and the FW.  This must be fixed for release or I can see BoS failing as a product.

Right on!  Ditto from me and my friends.  It's been a week now since the release.  The old & basic flaws, like the trim issue are still there. A CLOD "deja vu". I regret ever recommending it.   

Edited October 28, 2014 by gustaf