New Joystick but controlibility problems continue

[Blitzen]

I had been trying to use a MS FFB stick( which did & does  work fine with Il-2 ,RoF,and CloD,) with this sim but the darned thing couldn't seem to cut it.Yo-yoing,esp. after slight to extreme turns or trying to center in on a target or just steady flight were problematic even with Custom settings.Trim &/or stabilizer settings did little or nothing to help.It was obvious wth Campaigns rquiring Normal settings I would need a new stick.I bit the bullet & bought a very nice new LogitechExtreme 3dPro. I set it all up ,but am sad to say it doesn't improve things all that much.I get more or less steady flight out of the bombers ( of course they did handle like trucks...really I've flown a B-25 & know...) but the fighters are still a mess in Normal settings,esp.in rudder /aileron turns. Near the termination of the turn ,the nose of the plane wobbles all over the place.I've tried trim settings & not at all sure these are even working...ditto deadzone settings on all 3 axis,but again I'm not sure I'm helping or hurting the problems or for that matter whether they work or not.

  I know WW2 fighters wre a hand full ,but this is ridiculous.Take-off & landings are just possible but drawing a bead n a moving turning target & getting hits is a matter of spraying the general are & hoping for one hit in fifty.

Is there a solution? I've given up my favorite stick,but results seem minimal.When missions turn into 3o plane free for alls my goose is cooked...

Just found this vid made by another flyer that shows some of the behavior I am trying to describe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUyjF-hAL9c

 

Is this normal( pardon the play on words...)

Edited October 10, 2014 by Blitzen

[Talisman]

Hi Blitzen

 

Yes, a normal problem for me, particularly since early September updates.  I have a Saitek cyborg evo force-feedback stick that works just fine with all other sims (with BoS too before September) and is not faulty at all.  However, with BoS I now find pitch control problems that make flying a very disappointing experience for me.  Funny thing is, I had thought of purchasing a new flight stick, just for BoS, and like you I considered the Logitech Extremme 3dPro too.  However, I have lost so much confidence in BoS as a product, due to pitch control problems, that I decided not to spend any money on a new stick as I thought it was likely to be a wild goose chase.  The last hope for me is that the pitch control issues will be fixed in time for release.

The sad thing is that I had encouraged other members of my squad to purchase BoS early access, which they did on my recommendation, because I was so keen about it, but now I am unable to take part.  The September and October updates have left me feeling very deflated about BoS and I am on the verge of giving up with it.  Even the few members of my squad that I convinced to purchase BoS do not seem to be flying it much at the moment. 

I am starting to prepare myself to be let down in my expectations again, just like with (but not as bad as) CloD.

 

Good luck with BoS Blitzen and sorry I am unable to help you with any positive advice.

 

Happy landings,

 

Taliman

[Streiff]

It is known issues, its not your stick its the FM. 

 

Will the devs fix it? As it stands now many people would vote no on that subject.

 

You could ask them why not but chance of getting a answer is slim to none. If you would get an answer it would probably be: "our data shows its correct"

 

 

 

Sry for the negativity.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Baron

[CaK_Rumcajs]

I'm not sure it's a joystick problem. I had to change my habits a lot when I moved from CloD to BOS. It was a totally different experience. And I tend to believe people who are pilots in real who claim this is the best sim when it comes to flight modeling. It takes time to master. And I love the challenge. Flying CloD planes comes too easy now. If your hardware is OK the only advice is "practise makes perfect".

FYI BOS simulates dynamics of changes in angle of attack. A too fast change may result in dynamic stall. Make sure your moves are smooth. Do not expect to be able to hit your target constantly for seconds even if it's a bomber. If you can't hit because your aim is not great repeat the attack instead trying to compensate. Make sure you control the rudder correctly. Last but not least - don't give up.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

Its the game in normal mode, nothing to do with any stick!!   I think the game is still far to twitchy, the slightest move on the stick and the targets all over the place !  approaching the target using all the control surfaces and just moving the index finger to the firing button and you start bobbing like a cork, and I find the Me 109's the worse. So, any good hits are down to luck not judgement. Every aspect of this game is brilliant, but for this one over reaction to general handling.

 

We flight simmers can compensate, but wait when the game is completed and the general public have a first time chance to try out their flying skills. the final game version should have the custom option replaced.

 

Cheers.

 

PS while on the subject of Me 109's can the side windows be slid open and close.

[Blitzen]

I'm not sure it's a joystick problem. I had to change my habits a lot when I moved from CloD to BOS. It was a totally different experience. And I tend to believe people who are pilots in real who claim this is the best sim when it comes to flight modeling. It takes time to master. And I love the challenge. Flying CloD planes comes too easy now. If your hardware is OK the only advice is "practise makes perfect".

FYI BOS simulates dynamics of changes in angle of attack. A too fast change may result in dynamic stall. Make sure your moves are smooth. Do not expect to be able to hit your target constantly for seconds even if it's a bomber. If you can't hit because your aim is not great repeat the attack instead trying to compensate. Make sure you control the rudder correctly. Last but not least - don't give up.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response...I did think this might be a FM issue and after years of sim flying on reduced realism levels I thought this new challenge would be worth working at ...as you suggest.I certainly won't give it up despite some other campaign issues listed elsewhere....BUT what will happen when newbies attempt a campaign on required NORMAL settings? I think they'll simply give up,turns turning into uncontrollable spins gets old fast. They won't stay through the continuing improvements & add-ons that might make this sim superb.The community will not grow and as mentioend before that is not a good thing.

  I know WW2 airplanes were very much hands on aircraft with a certain amount of instability designed into them and if the FM in this sim is attepting to build that into these aircraft,,,well I think they've overdone it.

   I also hate not being able to use my FFB...sigh...

Edited October 11, 2014 by Blitzen

[GP*]

I thought it was just me...

 

I love the game, but just can't buy into the flight modeling at the moment. Planes fly (mostly referring to the 109) as if they are balancing on a top.

 

The idea of "real world flying experience" is thrown around a lot here, but just having some time in a 172 doesn't make anyone an authority on the subject. I don't consider myself an expert either, given that I've never flown a WWII fighter, but I do have considerable experience in tactical aviation.

 

My previous jet, and my current ride, are FLCS jets, so they aren't very relevant for this discussion. However, in initial training, I flew the "new" T-6. We used to always joke it was like flying a P-51, because although it didn't have the exact power of one, the power to weight was remarkably similar. I spent plenty of time at 5-6 Gs in that trainer (much more would have bent the airframe) and it didn't exhibit any of the tendencies that these aircraft show. It was remarkably smooth, and rapid g onset, followed by a rapid return to 1 G flight, wasn't bouncy at all.

 

I don't post this experience as any sort of one-upsmanship, but rather just to share my opinions on it. I'm skeptical of those who say this is the best flight model so far. IL-2 '46 / HSFX, while lacking a lot of advanced-physics fidelity, really nailed the feeling of aircraft weight and behavior under G, just IMHO.

 

I look forward to someone showing up with a chart, telling me just how wrong I am

[CaK_Rumcajs]

I thought it was just me...

 

I love the game, but just can't buy into the flight modeling at the moment. Planes fly (mostly referring to the 109) as if they are balancing on a top.

 

The idea of "real world flying experience" is thrown around a lot here, but just having some time in a 172 doesn't make anyone an authority on the subject. I don't consider myself an expert either, given that I've never flown a WWII fighter, but I do have considerable experience in tactical aviation.

 

My previous jet, and my current ride, are FLCS jets, so they aren't very relevant for this discussion. However, in initial training, I flew the "new" T-6. We used to always joke it was like flying a P-51, because although it didn't have the exact power of one, the power to weight was remarkably similar. I spent plenty of time at 5-6 Gs in that trainer (much more would have bent the airframe) and it didn't exhibit any of the tendencies that these aircraft show. It was remarkably smooth, and rapid g onset, followed by a rapid return to 1 G flight, wasn't bouncy at all.

 

I don't post this experience as any sort of one-upsmanship, but rather just to share my opinions on it. I'm skeptical of those who say this is the best flight model so far. IL-2 '46 / HSFX, while lacking a lot of advanced-physics fidelity, really nailed the feeling of aircraft weight and behavior under G, just IMHO.

 

I look forward to someone showing up with a chart, telling me just how wrong I am

This is a very interesting opinion. It's based on first hand experience which is something I personally don't have. This forum is full of posts regaring this topic and pople who claim are pilots in real provide quite contradicting reports on this matter. Some claim that BOS has the best FM so far. They speak about the flight sensation they have like in real. Some claim that BOS does things never observed in real. Especially the bouncing tendency is being questioned and the lack of sense of mass and inertia. So for people like me who are not real pilots it's difficult to make ones mind.

So far I've been successful to suppress the bouncing tendency by fine tuning my joystick inputs. I had to slow down and add some level of "hand patience".

[needacoffee]

I admit I was very excited when this game was on development. I have x52 controller which works excellent on HL/1946il2 . I have been practicing with the campaign(another force to do) and still find the game choppy and unable to shoot or hit anything. The aircraft is unmanageable and sadly I'm loosing interest.

[Dakpilot]

The first suggestion I would give is to put a bit of a small deadzone on the stick especially rudder if using twistrudder, start off with a 20-30% sensitivity curve until you have mastered that, when comfortable back it down 10% at a time until back to linear...the same issues were brought up in original IL-2, CLoD and DCS, it is just something that you need to get a feel of, control IS sensitive but better that way than to have an unrealistic "flat" feeling when mastered

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[dburne]

I admit I was very excited when this game was on development. I have x52 controller which works excellent on HL/1946il2 . I have been practicing with the campaign(another force to do) and still find the game choppy and unable to shoot or hit anything. The aircraft is unmanageable and sadly I'm loosing interest.

 

This.

 

An example of the frustration the sensitivity of the controllers with new players, I think this will be a problem for newcomers to the sim, they will get frustrated and lose interest.

[Dakpilot]

A lot of the wobbling comes from unintentional input around the centre zone of the joystick, no real aircraft control has that amount of sensitivity to a half a millimetre input, by introducing a small deadzone you are removing the chance of unwanted input, adding a sensitivity curve will give you slower input at the beginning of stick movement which is where the majority of people are having issues, having the curve give you higher input response at maximum deflection is not so much of an issue, as you are already established in a manoeuvre, unless you are mashing the stick around to full deflection, which in any case will be part of the issue.

 

By introducing a (small) dead zone and curve you can make the inputs quite docile until you have come to grips with that level, and slowly increase things

 

This is obviously aimed at beginners who are having issues..once comfortable it is easy to crank it up a bit

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SharpeXB]

I used a Logitech 3D Pro for years with RoF and thought it was fine. Then one day I realized I had trouble shooting balloons... Big fat unmoving targets... My stick was worn out. So I got a new 3D Pro but then found the new stick so stiff and inaccurate I was unable to fly anymore. So I got the CH Fighterstick. Huge improvement. Accurate sensors, large throw and light spring. Makes all the difference in the world.

[Blitzen]

I have to say I'm glad its not just me...at the same time I am dismayed it is happening to any one of us & has yet to be properly addressed by the developers.Maybe I shouldn't worry too much- after all when I signed on at the beginning it was with the clear understanding that this excercise was a sort of a beta.

Anyway...I have tried various dead zone settings before postings and 20% on everything seemed to be a little ( little as in slightly) better with the Bf-109 ,my chosen plane most of the time,but didn't do much to make the FW-190 any more managable.Using trim sometimes worked & other times seemed ineffectual.( Just as an aside I seem to remember the 109 didn't have adjustable inside the cockpit trim on all 3 axis..not sure about the 190 ,but could this be part of the FM ? Maybe that could be the reason I get no indication either in flight or HUD?

  The 190 seems to me to be the worst of the two :I get a steady tilt (roll)to the left ( port) with difficulty correcting same until addition of right rudder...then BOOM overcorrection to right,then adding left rool to correct( without left rudder) BOOM over correction to left again.Yes I've tried to trim this out.To fly a steady true( more or less) course I have to maintain a steady right rudder & aileron pressure.This get tiresome ,It also makes combat impossible-a joke really.

  When I do get the 109 to behave half way decently ( or the Stuka which is truck-like anyway) sighting & firing on a ground or air target is well just plain wrong.As I try to correct to hit the target the nose of the aircraft slides back & forth & up and downas i saw away trying to center the pip ,delivering bullets to the whole neighborhood or universe and making one hit in a thousand only a  matter of luck .Just look at gun camera films of the period- they do not resemble this behavior.This has just got to be FM.

One might say I got lazt fling Il-2 1946 with stall settings off and perfectly steady gun platform settings....ditto Clod even though  it taks some sharp flying & shooting to knock down Heinkles. I am now ready to try hard to cope with Normal settings here, but give me a break...or better give me an airplane & not a yo-yo.

I do love the eye candy-the planes are beautiful.I am more than willing to look over the present problems with the Campaign mode ( silly simple missions , combat zones ,having to earn skins & weapons in meaningless lonely combat zones et al) with faith all that can & will get better ( remembering RoF at the beginning) but to keep me playing & "flying" something just must be done to get  smooth dependable predictable play.

 

[Blitzen]

I used a Logitech 3D Pro for years with RoF and thought it was fine. Then one day I realized I had trouble shooting balloons... Big fat unmoving targets... My stick was worn out. So I got a new 3D Pro but then found the new stick so stiff and inaccurate I was unable to fly anymore. So I got the CH Fighterstick. Huge improvement. Accurate sensors, large throw and light spring. Makes all the difference in the world.

Does this stick work well with BoS as well? My Logitech is brand new & doesn't seem to cope any better than my old trusty FFB does...sigh...

Edited October 13, 2014 by Blitzen

[CaK_Rumcajs]

Oh well now I know what the problem is. It's the lack of trims in some planes and the tendency to roll when cruising. That forces you to press the stick constantly and makes it difficult to fly. I do not have this problem because I use a small SW utility that is able to trim input of joystick axes that are not trimmed in game. Basically i use two rotaries on my stick to trim ailerons and rudder so I can trim any aircraft. Ofc it's only useful for cruising it doesn't help in dogfighting but still it's beneficial. Also I use a stick with very light springs so I'm not fighting the forces. As for the curves and dead zones I use linear inputs and zero dead zones. Also joystick quality may come into play. I've got a Fat King Kobra stick from VKB. That's the metal mod of Cobra M5 stick with 3 cm extension. A very precise piece of HW.

When I think about it from the perspective of a newbie flight sim player there are too many things we old dogs can overcome without paying much attention. Maybe more detailed control options with the possibility to turn off some aspects of flight physics would help. BTW do we have those in BOS? I haven't seen the options for ages since I only fly on expert servers and expert difficulty.

[Blitzen]

Oh well now I know what the problem is. It's the lack of trims in some planes and the tendency to roll when cruising. That forces you to press the stick constantly and makes it difficult to fly. I do not have this problem because I use a small SW utility that is able to trim input of joystick axes that are not trimmed in game. Basically i use two rotaries on my stick to trim ailerons and rudder so I can trim any aircraft. Ofc it's only useful for cruising it doesn't help in dogfighting but still it's beneficial. Also I use a stick with very light springs so I'm not fighting the forces. As for the curves and dead zones I use linear inputs and zero dead zones. Also joystick quality may come into play. I've got a Fat King Kobra stick from VKB. That's the metal mod of Cobra M5 stick with 3 cm extension. A very precise piece of HW.

When I think about it from the perspective of a newbie flight sim player there are too many things we old dogs can overcome without paying much attention. Maybe more detailed control options with the possibility to turn off some aspects of flight physics would help. BTW do we have those in BOS? I haven't seen the options for ages since I only fly on expert servers and expert difficulty.

Yes options exist in CUSTOM settings and a couple of them do work to stop/control this erratic behavior, but you cannot use CUSTOM settings in campaigns.You are stuck with Normal.

[SharpeXB]

Does this stick work well with BoS as well? My Logitech is brand new & doesn't seem to cope any better than my old trusty FFB does...sigh...

Yes the CH works very well with BoS and other sims, DCS RoF etc.

it doesn't have a twist axis so it requires rudder pedals. Honestly I find all the BoS planes and others to be quite stable and easy to fly with it.

I usually have a small curve 20-30% for BoS and no deadzone.

Edited October 13, 2014 by SharpeXB

[Dakpilot]

OK well if you think it helps.

 

I wouldn't advise anyone use a deadzone unless they had a fault with their hardware.

 

I advocate no curves too, as all you're doing is moving the area of oversensitivity from one end of the axis to the other.

 

But it's great that people can choose what works for them.

 

All for choice as well, but I would not write off the use of curves, the FW190 was designed with built in curves on the rudder using differential bell crank to achieve less sensitivity around the neutral area to help with the very problem people experience in game...I don't think this is modelled due to linear movement of rudder compared to rudder input.

Whether some mathematical formula is used to achieve this "effect" is present in game I don't know, but I don't see it

 

So using curves is more historically correct and realistic to achieve flight handling as the designer intended

 

just some food for thought

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Blitzen]

I am about ready to return the new joystick...mapping a curve that works ( esp for the FW-190) seems a bit difficult and might work against other aircraft.Besides my FFB still works well with the other sims mentioned,that is unless someone has developed a fool proof ( the fool being me) way of correcting this apparent FM problem.I have written several times about this in the "Bugs" section and never had an "official" answer. I'll continue to download updates and play Quick Missions from time to time with Custom settings,but until or unless 777 does dome sort of fix I'll be going back to CloD for my main game play...besides Summer in England ( such as it is) this year of 1940 is quite beautiful!

[StickMan]

Another "I can't fly or shoot even though plenty of other people can, so it must be the sims fault. Fix it or I quit" thread. Sigh...............

Oh I almost forgot, "It didn't do this in my holy grail of flightsims CloD, so it must be wrong."

Edited October 14, 2014 by GeneralZod

[Blitzen]

Another "I can't fly or shoot even though plenty of other people can, so it must be the sims fault. Fix it or I quit" thread. Sigh...............

Oh I almost forgot, "It didn't do this in my holy grail of flightsims CloD, so it must be wrong."

If you have read the entire thread you'll see I am not alone.I like this sim-alot! but I have tried everything I know to get 2 entirely different joysticks to work with it.For some aircraft like the Sturmovik & Stuka handling is marginable but flyable & fun- for others & in particular the FW-190 ( remember with my joystick(s)) it is all but impossible.I don't know whether its my PC or the FM or whatever,but it is no fun going into uncontrolable turns ,spins & stalls, not to mention the inability to line up any shot.As you can see I signed up for this on nearly the first day so I have been at it a long time.I have posted along with others the joystick issues we have had & had no answer regarding what might be going on & how to solve it. I did not say I was bailing out on this sim, but I am giving it a rest.One thing to remember many of us here are old hands at sims ( me? I go back to Lucasarts Battle of Britain & that is a ways back!) ...we have watched sims come out with many problems (I am thinking of Rof and really CloD) and stayed with them for the long haul as developers ( or ATAG) worked & solved the glitches...People like me assume 777 will do the same here because they have one beautiful product with all sorts of potential,,,BUT I ask you GeneralZOD what will a newbie think on his Campaign mission if his aircraft/joystick does what mine is currently doing.How long will he/she last ? How many rants &whines ( remebering how such posts sank/shot down CloD before its time & gave us a stunted product until it was taken over by3rd party modders who did make it a terric sim...so far)) will be posted if the developers don't ensure the sim works at least adequately with all joysticks? We are 90% there ...that leaves 10% until official release.I look forward to the finished product & hope it solves problems I am currently having with control & then goes on to fine tune & add to campaign mission now in Beta.

[SharpeXB]

This sim has more realistic and challenging flight models than older games. It takes practice.

 

When I was new to flight sims I thought no ammount of practice whatsoever would allow me to fly these things. There are times when I still feel like that. Like when learning to do air-to-air refueling in DCS A-10C. Talk about bouncing all over the sky and out of control! And the Hog is easy compared to WWII birds.

After that experience I don't have any trouble at all handling the BoS planes.

The bouncing and lack of control is from out of time inputs or over correcting. It's hard to realize you're even doing it but once you "got it" it stops and you're straight and level or keeping your sight glued on the target.

Also it would be great if 777 implements the full response tuning menu like RoF has. That might help with setting different controllers.

Edited October 14, 2014 by SharpeXB

[Dakpilot]

At least it would be nice to be able to set curves on individual types of A/C..even if not the full RoF style

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[CaK_Rumcajs]

Blitzen I'm really sorry to hear you still have serious problems to control the FW 190. I'll try to connect my older joysticks tommorow to see if I get poor results. I've got an X52 and a CH Fighter Stick so I'll give them a try and see if a different stick makes a difference in controlability.

 

My general recomendation is: Do not use curves or at least do not increase sensitivity too much (20-30% at max). Sensitivity gained around center lowers sensitivity at high defletions and may cause overreactions. I personally fly with linear responses.

[=RvE=Windmills]

The springy/bouncing controls are still there?

 

Was looking forward to trying BoS again and seeing all the new changes, but reading this just made my stomach turn

[Blitzen]

Blitzen I'm really sorry to hear you still have serious problems to control the FW 190. I'll try to connect my older joysticks tommorow to see if I get poor results. I've got an X52 and a CH Fighter Stick so I'll give them a try and see if a different stick makes a difference in controlability.

 

My general recomendation is: Do not use curves or at least do not increase sensitivity too much (20-30% at max). Sensitivity gained around center lowers sensitivity at high defletions and may cause overreactions. I personally fly with linear responses.

I did turn them all down to nil...I think they may have worked ( with a slight dead zone)a little on the 109, but nothing helped on the 190 .I had to keep fullright rudder on just to fly straight.Trim didn't help & believe me a full right twist gets tiresome after a bit...

Linear responses?

[SharpeXB]

I had to keep fullright rudder on just to fly straight.

Something is wrong with your gear or mapping

[Blitzen]

Something is wrong with your gear or mapping

I think you hit it on the head.After I disabled all dead zones I "re-installed" or re-mapped the 3 axis of my stick,and did it very carefully & slowly moving stick back & forth ,side to side etc.and went back to flying the 190.Ok I still wasn't perfect and it was still "roll twitchy"and very light feeling control wise.I could hit stuff but not with much assurance.It was better.flying the 109 - much better however...maybe because its FM makes it a bit stiffer performer.I did a campaign escort mission ( on a beautiful1800 night sky) & with the help of some very efficient AI wingmen got the bombers back ok, shot one Mig down in the combat zone & another over my own airfield ( I chased him in & around the searchlights which actually tracked him...some fun!) So I'm up another 114 points or so another level pilot ( whatever that means ) and am almost finished with phase two of the beta campaign. Its not perfect & perhaps not what I would wish it to be, but I guess I'll play along a bit longer for a bit more fun,Mates! Now to see if the Ms  FFB will be as good if I re-try it. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by Blitzen

[Dakpilot]

Would also very much recommend those having serious sensitivity control problems have a look under SETTINGS/CONTROLS and at the bottom right, click DEVICES there is a slider called noise sensitivity with a scale of 1-10 with experiments you can really change the way your control inputs react to get rid of the oversensitivity/lightness of control  some people are battling with

 

This is a separate function to deadzones and curves, when combined there is a lot of adjustability available to help with getting to grips, as you become more comfortable it can easily be toned down

 

Not sure if noise filter is the correct translation though

 

Again it would be very handy if these settings could be applied to individual aircraft

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited October 15, 2014 by Dakpilot

[Blitzen]

Would also very much recommend those having serious sensitivity control problems have a look under SETTINGS/CONTROLS and at the bottom right, click DEVICES there is a slider called noise sensitivity with a scale of 1-10 with experiments you can really change the way your control inputs react to get rid of the oversensitivity/lightness of control  some people are battling with

 

This is a separate function to deadzones and curves, when combined there is a lot of adjustability available to help with getting to grips, as you become more comfortable it can easily be toned down

 

Not sure if noise filter is the correct translation though

 

Again it would be very handy if these settings could be applied to individual aircraft

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Now there is something new to me! Will give it a try & keep my fingers crossed!

Thanks for the tip!

 

[CaK_Rumcajs]

I've tested my old CH Fighter stick to have a comparison if two different sticks will provide a vastly different experience and ... I thought I would just plug the stick in an USB port and it would be fine. The device got detected so i remmaped X and Y axes to be controlled by the CH Stick and launched a quick mission. At the monent i felt like you. I wasn't able to control the plane in the air. It responded to my inputs but i had to keep almost full right ailerons to keep it at level. Then I recalibrated the stick, restarted BOS and it worked very well. TBH the old CH stick provides maybe better feel than the new Fat King Kobra. So it seems to me that you may have some calibration issues. As mentioned by Dakpilot try to test your stick in settings if it responds as you expect. Even the "Curve" dialog will do. You can see the response and compare it to your input.

 

Linear responses = 0% sensitivity ... or simply put the curve is a straight line.

[Blitzen]

This may be the last necessary post on this thread & it is possitive & might be ( along with the other instructive posts here) helpful.First FM is different & does take a lot of getting useful if you have been flying in a less realistic mode in other games- this is absolutely true.Second it seems as if all joysticks are slightly different in assessing the FM found here,Some are more sensitive than others.Third it is absolutely necessary that one fully follow instructions in mapping the input of pitch,roll & yaw in Contols/plane section & do it slowly & carefully.When I did it too quickly the input entries didn't seem to take & yes I stalled & crashed again,until I was a bit more careful re-mapping  joystick mapping/inputs & took my time.This time my flying & control was much better= not perfect mind but well within handling possibilities.

 What joystick I ended up with( if you are interested..) This morning I re-tried the MSFFB applying lessons above and trying everything out on my nemisis the FW-190 that has given me so much trouble in the past and you know, I think it worked better controling the Beast than the Logictech stick...really.I like the Logictech because it has4 more buttons , but I think I'll return it.I'm so used to the FFB stick and its layout & feel in this & other sims. A bit of remapping will be required but that's easy enough.Someday I'll get thewhole CH outfit but it will be awhile

So thanks guys for the possitive & even negative comments !

Edited October 15, 2014 by Blitzen

[56RAF_phoenix56]

I have to say, I get none of these problems. As you can see from my sig, I have an MSFFB2 and have had no problems whatsoever.

 

I find the Fw190 flies very straight. Inevitably, when strafing the approach is fast and requires a snappy pull up to avoid trees. If I overdo that I get a high speed stall and stick judder. It all seems very realistic to me.

 

My only deadzones are on the CH throttle quadrant which comes uncalibrated if you don't use the CH software.

 

56RAF_Phoenix

[Lensman]

Having read this thread and having very much suffered from the aforementioned pitch-boing I gave all the suggestions a go.

I remapped my FF2 in controls->plane.

I made sure the curves were not (ie linear).

No deadzones.

I added 10% noise filtering.

And whaddya know, it's a LOT better. I'm not bouncing around as much and my deflection precision has increased because I can actually hold the aim point at a point in space!

Try it.

 

Oh ... and the other crucial thing is to get your vertical stabilisation trim properly balanced. If you can fly hand off without pitching up or down (perfectly possible) then you've removed some potential bouncing right there.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Lensman

[Rott_Lover]

The oscillation exhibited in this game is unrealistic. If you take the time to view German gun camera film from World War II you will see that this oscillation effect is not present. I have noticed some oscillation in ME 110's at very slow speeds, but the oscillation is less frequent and less dramatic than what is modeled.

 

If you look at the ME 109's and FW 190's films you do not find significant oscillation as it is modeled in the game. If you were flying at 230 km/h or faster and this oscillation occurred it would present major angle of attack issues.

 

When I purchased this game I understood that it would be a realistic World War II flight simulator, in a line of realistic flight simulators. The simulation should be realistically difficult, but not unrealistically difficult. This issue has been present from the very beginning and it appears that there are no serious attempts to resolve this issue.

[easyTarget]

I thought it was just me...

 

I love the game, but just can't buy into the flight modeling at the moment. Planes fly (mostly referring to the 109) as if they are balancing on a top.

 

The idea of "real world flying experience" is thrown around a lot here, but just having some time in a 172 doesn't make anyone an authority on the subject. I don't consider myself an expert either, given that I've never flown a WWII fighter, but I do have considerable experience in tactical aviation.

 

My previous jet, and my current ride, are FLCS jets, so they aren't very relevant for this discussion. However, in initial training, I flew the "new" T-6. We used to always joke it was like flying a P-51, because although it didn't have the exact power of one, the power to weight was remarkably similar. I spent plenty of time at 5-6 Gs in that trainer (much more would have bent the airframe) and it didn't exhibit any of the tendencies that these aircraft show. It was remarkably smooth, and rapid g onset, followed by a rapid return to 1 G flight, wasn't bouncy at all.

 

I don't post this experience as any sort of one-upsmanship, but rather just to share my opinions on it. I'm skeptical of those who say this is the best flight model so far. IL-2 '46 / HSFX, while lacking a lot of advanced-physics fidelity, really nailed the feeling of aircraft weight and behavior under G, just IMHO.

 

I look forward to someone showing up with a chart, telling me just how wrong I am

Thank you, and others too, i was very frustrated when i try to hit anything, the rubber feeling is bad, i love the sim and what they try to do, but i cant enjoy it at all, after while i get pissed and my arm hurt from constant tension how iam trying to do little corrections all the time when i try to level the wobble. I did made a lot of corrections in sensitivity settings but it doesnt help much. PLS dev try to fix it.

[dburne]

Thank you, and others too, i was very frustrated when i try to hit anything, the rubber feeling is bad, i love the sim and what they try to do, but i cant enjoy it at all, after while i get pissed and my arm hurt from constant tension how iam trying to do little corrections all the time when i try to level the wobble. I did made a lot of corrections in sensitivity settings but it doesnt help much. PLS dev try to fix it.

 

I personally think, this will be an issue with a lot of the new players they are targeting with this sim.

[easyTarget]

I personally think, this will be an issue with a lot of the new players they are targeting with this sim.

Yes, i think so,

BTW i am not new to sim, i have been flying for a decade at least, i have original sturmovik, BOB, ROF, and some others, i dont fly so much these day as i would wish. What iam trying to say, some mid season players will have issue as well. Come on dev, you dont see it? I just watched video on you tube, some new guy just tryied his first quick mission, he was cool, he was trying to shoot fighter then bomber but not much luck, i saw the rubber band effect he thought he sucked but he flew ok, do we need some special skills or we have to use some basic physics setting?That would be pity.

[Kudlius]

Let's wait for the final release and than we will see is this babe going to live.

It looks like developers are out of this world at the moment. 

I do not see to much respect for the customers from them.