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Reasons for leaving War Thunder and moving to BOS

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I had been out of simming for a few years and wanted to get back into it. I played who knows how many stupid online battles trying to get my mig-3 pimped out with proper gear. Then I decided I wanted a B17... I ground relentlessly up to the second B25 and got sick of it. I paid like 35 bucks to get from the B25 to the first B17. Just to unlock the plane not even the upgrades. Then no cockpit... Then you can wind up flying your B17 over Stalingrad being shot down by Zeros and P47s...

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Fact is it's not a good game of you're looking for a full simulation expirience. Infact the devs tried to kill sim mode years ago when faced with the comunity demands of realism (bomber cockpits, removed gunner view, historical plane matchups, realistic FMs). Now it in a coma state with the odd player hosted EC mode that feels unfinished and improvised (a 'do it yourself' mode).

 

About teaching new people sim flying, the sad truth is it won't. How do people feel encourage to but a joystick and learn flying from 0 if you have it way easier unlocking all those aircraft in a mindless action arena that is arcade using mouseaim. People get more addicted by the grind than the game and as soon as they even try a joystick they despise it as their sweet 5 kills per sorty are gone.

 

That is what I witnessed as member of a big squad that tried to train forner mouse aim users to fly with joystick. They tried it a few times, left silently and returned to arcade mouseaim flying soon after.

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That is what I witnessed as member of a big squad that tried to train forner mouse aim users to fly with joystick. They tried it a few times, left silently and returned to arcade mouseaim flying soon after.

 

Mhhh but is it the fault of the game.... its more about what the player want. If they like the Arcade mode there and sneaked into the other modes its up to them if they wanna stay. People like me who started in Arcade (and even played in Cockpit view) wanted allways more immersion and realism it was a ... slowly progress for me which War Thunder offered really well. Also it has one of the  best controll settings which i miss on some other "real fly sims". 

 

I think its up to the player if they are interessted in a real fly sim than of course starting with the real thing like Il2 BoX is better. But WT is a good method to see if people will get hooked by air combat and than slowly coming in contact with sim Genre and than even switching to other games. 

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I still play, I even became Premium member. Don't shoot me. I really like the combined tank/aircraft sim battles events, especially when they have historical events. They have an impressive vehicle list that keeps it fun for me. Flight model is awful compared to BoX but still quick and dirty fun in some unusual vehicles.

 

Also it's a great gateway game into simming. In this day not many games can reach the mainstream and have kids learn about history and tanks/planes which is probably all our passion on here. It's fun being able to play this game with my 8 year old Nephew and teach him the different types of vehicles.

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I thought the tanks in war thunder were some of the best I'd ever played in terms of gameplay. The idea of different destruction points based on the real tanks is really good idea. Only problem really is it matches equal number of tanks vs equal number which makes the realism of tanks a bit wonky because there were never 10 tigers vs 10 shermans. They had it best when we had sim tank battles were you were put into tank commanders position with no hit markers and only your eyes to find the target. What made this a bit rubbish was that you can turn off a lot of the grass to see the world open so you're hiding behind a bush that another player can't see because they've got their graphics turned right down. This game as a whole would be great as a pay title without it all being locked behind a grind wall and a lock on how low end a pc can be used to keep more grass and world on. Problem with the grind system is that in tanks it's really hard to progress because it takes so much resources to unlock different items or make enough game money to buy a new tank. Playing for free in this game, playing for fun isn't that much fun. 

 

The whole game is a bit like playing an interactive museum. They've got many of the tanks and aircraft from ww2 in the game. It almost doesn't matter that they don't have the best plane flight models, or the best tank physics. Many people will as stated by others play war thunder and learn about history, ww2 and go on to learn the real stories, how these things were really used. It's a game aimed more for kids and kids like this type of thing. That's OK as a kid may find normal, realistic history too boring. That's not a problem though and the choice is peoples.

 

No one has to spend any money on this game if they don't want to. I don't pity or think badly of people who use their money in War Thunder, after all people spend their money on more pointless things like drugs and alcohol. If the game was so terrible, so awful people would not play it so there has to be some interest, something that redeems it otherwise why play it at all?

 

I'm writing, speaking, typing as someone who doesn't play War Thunder or Il2 anymore. I got into war thunder years ago and it sparked an interest, DCS, Il2 and sent me all over the country, a quest to visit many ww2 aircraft museums. I discovered Tank Fest and Flying legends. I might even be visiting an aircraft museum in Germany later in the year and I'm planning to visit Hitlers eagles nest. I've seen where Churchill proposed to his wife and sat in thoughtful silence of all the history past and still to be written.

 

DCS allowed me to press the buttons virtually of some of the most iconic planes of ww2 and get a deeper understanding of what it may have been like to actually fly one of these aircraft and then Il2bos made me feel emotions, taught me about less popular conflicts, less well known aircraft, showed me the power of the community, the unrelenting strength of the human spirit and immersed me fully into being a pilot in any one of the scenarios. In Il2 bos I felt like a pilot in a war and the thematic atmosphere was a major part of the enjoyment even if the game was still far from perfect. I only realized then that I was glad it was not real.

 

Thus far I've seen many of the planes in war thunder, DCS and Il2 bos either as static displays or flying in the air. I've touched a real tiger tank and felt the thundering roar of ww2 plane engines. I've gained a great appreciation and understanding of what these normal, young men went through. 

 

When these games loose their relevance and we are all dead and gone. Many of us will be footnotes in history, remembered by people we knew and many, many blank faces. WW2 is a landmark in time that will never, ever be forgotten and the ordinary young men and brave women who did their duty, flung into a war many of them did not want, ripped from their happy lives and forced either into battle or working in factories to support the troops did the best they could against unrelenting hatred and through an experience many of us will never understand. 

 

Each game has its merits. Play what you enjoy or what suits your lifestyle. Don't live for the game.

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I have never flown WT so I cannot address the differences.  Some however have given the reason that WT is free as a plus.  I cannot count the number of free games that are not on my hard drive.

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I actually only played war thunder for the armor combat. IL-2 is my first flight game really. By default I've always been far more interested in the ground combat of ww2.

 

I left WT due to an array of reasons. They changed game modes to where all modes have mixed factions on a team...meaning if you're in a Stug a guy in a Sherman and T34 can be on your team. That alone KILLS the game for me. Add to that, 3rd person view, incorrect optics, incorrect armor and penetration for certain tanks, STUPID skins, the insane amount of time it takes to "grind" to get more stuff...the list goes on.

 

I've never rage uninstalled a game so hard when one day, I shot a Sherman in the side with a Stug III f/8 and it bounced off...then he turned and one shot me, of course.

 

The world still doesn't not have a ww2 tank sim, or really any new-ish tank sim for that matter... I hope 1C and 777 pull through. Though I am quite disapointed that a Stug isn't on the list of planned tanks...I mean it was the most produced AFV of the Germans...

 

Also we need a new u-boat sim.

 

All I can do is pray.

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They are 1001 reasons to leave WT and only one reason to not join Il-2 - the poor graphics of the latter.

 

I have bought Il-2 BOS 2 years ago and since i haven't played a single mission. Make something to improve the immersion. Ground targets look like in the original il-2, it's outdated.

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I've tried warthunder multiple times over the years.  I just can't suffer their style of gameplay for more than an hour or two before giving it a hard Nope and uninstalling.

Oddly though, I've racked up nearly 65 hours in World of Warships PvE since tried it for the first time a couple of months ago.  I seem to be fine with that.  :huh:

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Reason #1:

thegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrindthegrind

 

 

that and BS matchmaking changes to sell premium stuff or new vehicle classes

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And the paper stuff. Look at the FROST event.😖

Edited by Waelse

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On 12/13/2017 at 5:36 AM, =TBAS=Sschatten14 said:


This would be like playing World of Warships without Water or currents in the water.

 

I think that's called "Curling" and it seems to be fairly popular in Canada.  

___

I tried Gaijin's space version of point and click grindfest gameplay.... I hated it.  I don't think I would like a WW2 plane reskin of that very much if I did decide to try it.

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Well, although I agree with the rather peculiar way of grinding being a mess, at least for my brain to process, and the whole rewards and "economics" I am forced to adhere to and play like in some sort of Casino, look silly, truth is WT became my only air combat sim, and actually for the time being my only flight simulator, and I never used any other sort of virtual games...

 

I got disappointed with the lack of immersion in IL2 GB, the latest updates brought a significative downgrade in it's performance, the view system is weird and probably the worst among the three sims with WT having by far the best solution even if not perfect IMO, and waiting for upgrades / fixes / updates / new content in DCS World.

 

WT gives some of the best moments playing online, immersion in every session, excellent performance in my old rig with much better graphics and enough plausibility of the FM, DM, etc,,,

 

Love it !  I'm War Thunderized 🙂 ( in Simulator full reall controls mode only !!! ).

 

 

Edited by jcomm-il2
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WT and all it's Free-to-Play (aka: Pay-to-Win) ilk can be fully categorized and described by a handy acronym I came up with:

 

C.A.N.C.E.R.

 

That is:

 

Comercially Abusive Novelty Coin Exchange Routine

 

It describes the design premise of (flirting with illegality) establishing a local monopoly in which the publisher/developer places itself in a position to fully govern a captive market and it's internal conditions for both supply and demand.  

In other words, those companies decide how much you need their little gold coins and what for, while also deciding what they should cost.  Then it's down to casino attraction design and drug-dealer tactics (the first taste of cocaine is always free) to hook in children with their parent's credit cards down the path of gambling addiction.

 

I might one day write a book about the evil that is "freemium" - though South Park has done a better job than many so far of explaining it:

 

 

The whole concept goes against the very basis of capitalism.  It creates a null-value market which is effectively void of any competition inside each of those games.  Therein they exploit the racket of an infinitely-repeatable zero-value purchase system*.  The atrocity is compounded by deliberate misuse of medical research meant originally to better understand the behavioral patterns and thus help those suffering from gambling compulsions. (Exposed documents from Zinga (concerning FarmVille, IIRC) have confirmed this blatantly evil application of the scientific method)

 

A gambling addict in a casino at least has a small chance of winning some of his money back.  

 

* This is a perversion of the previously existing, perfectly valid, DLC business model; where distinct items in a game are offered as optional purchases. (i.e: collector planes) The difference between this and C.A.N.C.E.R. is, despite common misrepresentation, truly massive:  Whereas DLCs represent discrete items of known value, which are purchased once and enjoyed indefinitely; (think "expansion packs") The modern "freemium" model is centered on the sale of "coin packs", intended to be purchased again and again. The need for these is determined by the profiting party alone. As is their real-world money cost. There is no competition, as their ideal target audience is projected for individuals** who exhibit behavioral responses which may be cultivated into symptoms of severe gambling addiction.

 

** While less than 1% of the audience, these victims are planned to, and do indeed, pay for all the rest of the rapidly-circulating majority, whom often play "against the machine" only as far as it remains fun to do without putting down a penny. No matter, this is expected of the 99%; They were never the intended target.  If you've ever felt like WT devs seem to "not care", well, this is why.

 

 

So here the house not only "always wins", but also gets to take home the jackpot.

 

 

I reckon the whole system is not yet outright illegal (completely, that is, for many countries have already banned some of the more abusive titles) only because those who are currently in a position to propose and vote in laws are still mostly one or two generations removed from the gaming scene. 

 

It is but a matter of time, one can only hope. And hope that such a time will come before these abominable methods have done any more thorough a job than they have already at destroying the videogame industry.

 

 

On the other hand, this trend has done Indie developers such as myself, something of a big favor, by getting players so frustrated with the general state of big-budget gaming that many once mainstream players have been turned to migrate more and more towards more specialized, less greedy developers.  Those being the only ones still making games designed around the premise that they should be fun to play, rather than prioritizing features that offer a larger potential for (achk!) monetization...

 

 

Well, those are my opinions for now... I can (and often do) go on and on about it. But that's a very, very long dissertation I have yet to write.   

 

 

Edited by 19//Moach
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Very well put into words Moach, and I do agree with your view, and actually mentioned, in another post, how much WT can turn into Casino-like addiction...

 

In my case I did buy a few golden eagles and created two accounts because the first one I was still so far from understanding the system that I started accepting all sort of "research" I was almost forced into...

 

But my main focus is the feel of flight, and while I do get thrilled with the combat, it is really not my beach....

 

It also helps that I'm above all a flight dynamics / systems modelling addict, always seeking to find innacuracies / well implemented details, so, WT can easily turn into the next game to uninstall at any moment I forget about the smoothness and graphics, and some characteristics I actually would like to see ported into other sims...

 

Anyway, Wt runs smooth in my old rig, I start it when I'm in the mood to play it for a while, and that's all, so, as you also put it very well, it depends strongly in your mindset...

 

Are you an economist, btw ?

Edited by jcomm-il2

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On 12/15/2017 at 8:59 PM, kestrel79 said:

Flight model is awful compared to BoX but still quick and dirty fun in some unusual vehicles.

 

Pretty much sums it up does that. I was in WT for years and even ran a Squadron (BRITS). I did LOADS of skinning and still have some very good friends who are still doing just that. The thing that pushed me out was the 'commercialisation' of it whereby users were pretty much segregated out from each other by the 'haves' and 'have-nots' and the completely disposable nature of everything on offer. All these factors combining with each other just rubbed me up completely the wrong way and so... here I am!!

Rap

ps The atmosphere in the forums became, to me, more and more toxic as well. Comparatively this is just, well, right!!;)

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Went back and tried it a bit with my daughter (she’s 3 and enjoys tooling around in her ‘Red Baron’ he51).

its amazing how much harder it is to hit planes, even friendly bombers, slow and from dead six. I don’t really get why the hit detection is so different.

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Gave F8F flight manual to them clearly showing inaccurate MP limits and was told the flight manual was not a reliable source by gajin. That was the last straw for me.

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