Jump to content

Anti-aircraft battery firing range


VAG_Sevy
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone and developers, this is for them.

 

I noticed that the german light flak did'nt trigger its shot at, at least the effective range in relation to their real performances.
For example:
Flak 36/43 start of shooting at 3000m, too short between 800m and 1800m from reality.
Flack 38 and Sdkfz-10 38 start firing at 1700m, too short of 500m from reality.
Flakvierling / Sdkfz-7 38 start of shooting at 600m, too short of 600m and more.
In addition, the 38's do'nt trigger when facing the target. they wait for it to be above the artillery position or for it to be passed.
It's annoying for those who want to defend their position, to be shot first before returning fire
The bofor begins his shooting at 4200m, that's correct.

 

Correct or overvalued for British and undervalued for German material! That's a long story of developers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AEthelraedUnraed

This is a mission design problem, not a problem with the game and certainly not something the Developers can "fix" (there is nothing to fix). I've had all of those fire at much bigger ranges than you give here. Definitely not 600m for the Flakvierling.

 

If you're the mission designer yourself, adjust the range of the AttackArea MCU or object-link a Force Complete MCU set to Low to the Flak. If you're not the mission designer, bring this up with whomever designed the mission.

Edited by AEthelraedUnraed
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AEthelraedUnraed 🤪 suis mort de rire. The AttackArea MCU, as if I hadn't thought about it !!!
Repeat tests or send me a mission that proves the opposite of what I'm saying!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AEthelraedUnraed
3 minutes ago, VAG_Sevy said:

Repeat tests or send me a mission that proves the opposite of what I'm saying!

Ehm, pretty much any mission I've ever made, as well as all of the official scripted campaigns?

 

Seriously, if the Flakvierling only starts firing at 600m and the Flak waits with firing until you're over the target, there's something wrong with the mission. If you post the mission file, I'm willing to take a look at it to find out what's wrong, but don't immediately blame the Devs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you see! It's me who makes the effort to chew up your work! I provide you the test mission. MCU settings couldn't be simpler. If unfortunately I made a mistake in parameters, I will apologize.

 

The test plane is at 1000m alt., all you have to do is take landmarks when firing. The rest is a trigonometry problem, I guess you'll get it.

Maps template.zip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Ehm, pretty much any mission I've ever made, as well as all of the official scripted campaigns?

 

Seriously, if the Flakvierling only starts firing at 600m and the Flak waits with firing until you're over the target, there's something wrong with the mission. If you post the mission file, I'm willing to take a look at it to find out what's wrong, but don't immediately blame the Devs.

 

Theres always been an issue with the Flak half-tracks taking too long to ‘wake up’ and fire, even with properly applied logic. There should be a ‘ready’ option where the sideboards are down and the vehicle is able to respond immediately. Or at least more quickly than it does.

 

With a low, fast flyover the aircraft is almost out of range before it can fire.

 

If it’s fixed, then it’s only recently so.

Edited by Gambit21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Theres always been an issue with the Flak half-tracks taking too long to ‘wake up’ and fire, even with properly applied logic. There should be a ‘ready’ option where the sideboards are down and the vehicle is able to respond immediately. Or at least more quickly than it does.

Looks like it's the same for German light guns, there is no anticipation of fire and the trigger ranges have been set too short. In the test mission I sent. the Bofor, it is adjusted so as to trigger around 4200m, which is the historical distance at which the artillerymen began to fire.
If they can do it with the bofor ????

I would even say more ... If any of you ever have fired with a heavy weapon, a good gunner will always anticipate a fast target moving toward his position. With a 20mm, it will increase its shooting distance by at least half of its range. The loss of efficiency is compensated by the speed of approach of the target and the time of flight of the shell will reduce the distance.
But this must be very difficult to program!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

AEthelraedUnraed
On 10/12/2021 at 4:04 PM, VAG_Sevy said:

So you see! It's me who makes the effort to chew up your work!

"My" work? I'm sorry, but I'm just a random guy who happens to do some mission editing in his spare time. I'm not affiliated with 1C in any way, and it is most certainly not my job to do anything for anyone at all on the Forums. It is not "my" work to fix your missions for you. It is your work to fix your missions and instead of bitching, you should be grateful that people want to help you.

 

For this one time I'm gonna help you because I'm in a good mood and because you've given your location as Belgium and I live close to the Belgian border and like Belgian beer. But it might be advisable to adjust your attitude in the future, sir.

 

First of all, you should always use a delay between the Mission Begin Translator and any MCU. You want to wait a while for everything to have finished loading properly before giving any commands. Try 3 seconds or so.

Secondly, unless you've got a very specific area that you want the AAA to target, you should use a Force Complete MCU with the Priority set to Low, instead of an Attack Area MCU.

Especially if you follow up the latter rule, the AAA should fire at a *much* greater distance than 600m.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 8:52 PM, Gambit21 said:

Theres always been an issue with the Flak half-tracks taking too long to ‘wake up’ and fire, even with properly applied logic. There should be a ‘ready’ option where the sideboards are down and the vehicle is able to respond immediately. Or at least more quickly than it does.

True, the half-tracks can take a while to properly deploy. But I think that's mostly realistic; it's not like the Allies phoned up the Germans saying "hey, tomorrow at 10:55 we're gonna attack your vehicle columns between there and there." The only first-hand Flak source I can remember tells about how they shot down a P-47, and they were only ready to fire when the P-47s made their second pass. Of course it's just an anecdote, but I think a large delay is pretty realistic for tactical Flak (things are of course different for large Flak batteries that would be phoned well in advance of a large incoming attack). If you want the Flak to be ready sooner, it's a small sacrifice to just take one of the fixed Flak guns instead of a half-track (although, of course, a "ready" option would be better, but it ranks pretty low on my wishlist).

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

True, the half-tracks can take a while to properly deploy. But I think that's mostly realistic; it's not like the Allies phoned up the Germans saying "hey, tomorrow at 10:55 we're gonna attack your vehicle columns between there and there." The only first-hand Flak source I can remember tells about how they shot down a P-47, and they were only ready to fire when the P-47s made their second pass. Of course it's just an anecdote, but I think a large delay is pretty realistic for tactical Flak (things are of course different for large Flak batteries that would be phoned well in advance of a large incoming attack). If you want the Flak to be ready sooner, it's a small sacrifice to just take one of the fixed Flak guns instead of a half-track (although, of course, a "ready" option would be better, but it ranks pretty low on my wishlist).

 

Good little story and insight even if just one anectdote. :)

 

Still if placed say at an airfield, I want an option to have them ready/alert, as would often be the case in real life.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AEthelraedUnraed and Gambit 21 :Thanks for the info and we'll have a beer together as soon as you come to Liège. I expressed myself badly with "shew your job", the expression is better in French!
It is obvious that in the test mission, I simplified, otherwise in my missions I use a spawner and an entry / exit zone detection and the MCU "force complete" finally, I will not go back to the configuration, I master pretty much the logic of the editor.

You both have good arguments to defend or analyze the state of affairs on the German light flak, but be objective on the whole problem and explain to me for the Bofor to fire at the right distance (+/- 4200m) and that for inherent development considerations which for me have nothing to do with it, the flak 36 could'nt also start firing at its historical distance, 4800m for the later versions ?? ? So I repeat my question: why devalue the German guns compared to the English guns and also Russians in a lesser extent!

 

I would really like to have the opinion of a developer.
If for reasons of script it is necessary to delay the firing of the flak, it is easy thanks to the MCUs, anticipating the firing is impossible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...