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will there be infantry hitting the beach with landing craft?(BON question)


NoelGallagher
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NoelGallagher

i can't imagine the battle of normandy without this famous landing

people remember that battle mostly with this event (maybe it't due to with the films "the longest day" , "saving private ryan")

it would be more appealing to the potential buyers to present this event in the game

even if it's jsut dumb AI infantry move along with the given waypoints 

i think it will make huge differnce 

 

 

Into_the_Jaws_of_Death_23-0455M_edit.thumb.jpg.0d467cc034223d6d693fe4da23c05401.jpg

1402013118090-AP44060611030-48.thumb.jpg.ed08c021391bacea0cf9d27e904e5e52.jpg

1140-d-day-soliders-water-beach_web.thumb.jpg.8b3b94be10704065c0bfa38fad041eb6.jpgirastehmann-robert-capa-the-first-wave-of-american-troops-landing-on-d-day-omaha-beach-normandy-france-1944.thumb.jpg.6bc0b396f0656ddde2c9e2cbe9d20644.jpg

the pictures are taken by robert capa

1st wave of american inf at omaha beach

most of them in this pc lost their life very soon after this photo is taken

salute

Edited by NoelGallagher
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BlitzPig_EL

I wouldn't count on it.  In fact I would not count on D-Day at all.  What we will get is D-Day + 7 or so as the Allied armies move inland.

The current game engine simply cannot handle anything like the numbers of AI ships and vehicles, much less people, that it would take to give a believable

portrayal of D-Day itself. 

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NoelGallagher
8 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I wouldn't count on it.  In fact I would not count on D-Day at all.  What we will get is D-Day + 7 or so as the Allied armies move inland.

The current game engine simply cannot handle anything like the numbers of AI ships and vehicles, much less people, that it would take to give a believable

portrayal of D-Day itself. 

did they already announce the specific time line that they will present?

Edited by NoelGallagher
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D-Day is just not practical - period.

 

This photo is one small section of one beach - a single snapshot and nowhere near illustrating the scale of operations.

 

This release should be thought of as D-Day +1 and onward, and even then if I were creating content I wouldn't bring the player near the beachhead...because, well...look.

 

 

 

 

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.484e8e7c4b843e042e148316a47da941.jpg

 

 

Not to mention the obvious difficulties with rendering the troops themselves which you'd have to have been under a rock to not have a simple

understanding of by now.

 

 

 

Edited by Gambit21
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BraveSirRobin
21 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

did they already announce the specific time line that they will present?


It really doesn’t matter what they have announced.  There is just no way that this game engine, or probably any game engine, could handle anything even close to what took place on D-Day.  

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3 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

D-Day is just no practical - period.

 

This thread is nothing more than trolling, for it takes only a few seconds of research to begin to grasp the scale involved.

This photo is one small section of one beach - a single snapshot and nowhere near illustrating the scale of operations.

 

This release should be thought of as D-Day +1 and onward, and even then if I were creating content I wouldn't bring the player near the beachhead...because, well...look.

 

 

 

 

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.484e8e7c4b843e042e148316a47da941.jpg

I'm not sure how the OP'

No matter how much we've read about D-Day and the lead up to it, I doubt we can really appreciate the enormity of it all. The labor involved in the production of materials, the training of troops and just getting it all in place for the invasion is still mind boggling.

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NoelGallagher
12 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

D-Day is just no practical - period.

 

This thread is nothing more than trolling, for it takes only a few seconds of research to begin to grasp the scale involved.

This photo is one small section of one beach - a single snapshot and nowhere near illustrating the scale of operations.

 

This release should be thought of as D-Day +1 and onward, and even then if I were creating content I wouldn't bring the player near the beachhead...because, well...look.

 

 

 

 

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.484e8e7c4b843e042e148316a47da941.jpg

 

 

Not to mention the obvious difficulties with rendering the troops themselves which you'd have to have been under a rock to not have a simple

understanding of by now.

 

 

 

nowdays everyone being accused as "troll" becasue it has so vague definition 

and if we talk about depicting everything accurately in terms of scale 

then noone in the world could make any realsitic ww2 game ever

well what about tank crew prokhorovka?

or even battle of moscow ETC 

you know where i'm coming from

no need to be that fishy..

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46 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

nowdays everyone being accused as "troll" becasue it has so vague definition 

 

Fine, insert your own term for creating a post asking about something that we all know is quite impossible.

 

 

46 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

and if we talk about depicting everything accurately in terms of scale 

then noone in the world could make any realsitic ww2 game ever

 

Pretty much

 

46 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

well what about tank crew prokhorovka?

 

What about it?

Did it take place on a monumentally greater scale than can be depicted in the game?

Yes

Is it directly comparable to looking down on Operation Overlord in open water and the beaches of Normandy?

 

No

 

46 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

or even battle of moscow ETC 


See above.

Effects, smoke, tracers etc can lend the illusion of large scale conflict...I know, I've done it.

 

46 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

you know where i'm coming from

no need to be that fishy..

 

I know exactly where you're coming from...and you know where I'm coming from.

 

 

Edited by Gambit21
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WWII Online is the only one that made a pretty good attempt at presenting a first person Western Front war game. It had infantry, tanks, planes, ships etc. etc. 🧐

 

IL2 Great Battles is still primarily a WWII flight simulator with some tanks thrown in. Expect the Normandy module to be primarily centered on the air war side of the Normandy invasion. Thinking it will be much more is just wishful thinking.

 

Oh well, it's ok to wish. :salute:

Edited by Thad
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352nd_Hoss

We need an emoji for Snarky! or one for A hats................. 

 

Keep it civil please... if that's not feasible, I'd rather see people not post snarky, elitist responses.  Joking is one thing but literally slapping someone with disrespect is different. :negative:   If you believe someone is trolling, report it to the moderators, or PM the person directly...

 

Respectfully

Hoss

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Jade_Monkey

It's a flight simulator, not an fps.

 

I would expect boats, smoke, some gun emplacements with mgs. All of those are feasible and for me that is enough for a bird's eye view.

 

 

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NoelGallagher
11 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Fine, insert your own term for creating a post asking about something that we all know is quite impossible.

 

 

 

Pretty much

 

 

What about it?

Did it take place on a monumentally grater scale than can be depicted in the game?

Yes

Is it directly comparable to looking down on Operation Overlord in open water and the beaches of Normandy?

 

No

 


See above.

Effects, smoke, tracers etc can lend the illusion of large scale conflict...I know, I've done it.

 

 

I know exactly where you're coming from...and you know where I'm coming from.

 

 

i don't know where you are coming from

tell me where you are coming from then

i'm not talking about making every landing part absolutely accurately or even closely 

as you can clearly see i'm talking about "infantry landing at the landing craft"

becasue i saw the dev diary sharing the picture of landing craft 

if you have a personal grudge about me then let's talk through massage 

 

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BraveSirRobin
1 minute ago, NoelGallagher said:

 

i'm not talking about making every landing part absolutely accurately or even closely 

 

 

Then you probably should not have started your post with this:

 

1 hour ago, NoelGallagher said:

i can't imagine the battle of normandy without this famous landing

 

 

Because there is absolutely no way that you're getting anything close to the famous landing.

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4 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

It's a flight simulator, not an fps.

 

I would expect boats, smoke, some gun emplacements with mgs. All of those are feasible and for me that is enough for a bird's eye view.

 

 

 

Aye...a bunch of static vessels etc, smoke, tracers...will have to do for fly-over purposes.

Even then you'd have to watch the number of tracers as they (as you know) get expensive.

 

2 minutes ago, NoelGallagher said:

i don't know where you are coming from

tell me where you are coming from then

i'm not talking about making every landing part absolutely accurately or even closely 

as you can clearly see i'm talking about "infantry landing at the landing craft"

becasue i saw the dev diary sharing the picture of landing craft 

if you have a personal grudge about me then let's talk through massage 

 

 

No we're good.

I'll leave the massage to you and Hoss ;)

 

All of the action was post-D-Day anyway.

Flying around over the beaches with nothing to shoot and the massive operation happening below would be cool...if possible...which it isn't.

 

The rubber meets the road from an air operations standpoint D-Day plus 1 onward.

 

 

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ww2fighter20

While it's unrealistic to expect d-day to be depicted on the same level as the actual landings, there will be something and not empty beaches since 4 different landing ships have already be shown to be in production/released (LCA/LCVP/LCT and LCI).

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Static units and a few "live" units are no problem in the engine, I think a reasonable effect is possible.

Just keep expectations reasonable...I wouldn't expect any simulation engine to handle even 20% of D-Day where "live" units are concerned.

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There was significant air action on D-Day, though all of it was further inland. The 4thFG alone lost 10 pilots that day, seven KIA, one evader and two others going down to be POWs.

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8 minutes ago, Rjel said:

There was significant air action on D-Day, though all of it was further inland. The 4thFG alone lost 10 pilots that day, seven KIA, one evader and two others going down to be POWs.

 

Aye - away from the beaches.

C-47 mission would be cool...but then it's dark, with tons of aircraft and just massive amounts of tracers...which again isn't possible.

I'd be all over that mission though.

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PatrickAWlson

I'm going to have a D-Day.  It will be 10-20 landing craft, each disgorging 2 Shermans, that will then attack inland as far as they can go.  I might add some C-47s that will drop their parachutists, who will also magically become Shermans (Stuarts would be better).  There will be destroyers off shore.  As a German you will be able to attack the invading forces, either airborne or on the ground.  As an Allied pilot you will be flying escort, CAP, or ground attack.  

 

Far from perfect but I'm not letting those new landing craft go to waste.  As time goes on and tech gets better, either through performance enhancements to the game or just better computers, D-day can grow accordingly.

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4 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

...or just better computers, D-day can grow accordingly.

 

It never seems to work out that way though. Thinking of EAW, or even 1946.

 

Computers get faster, but the software demands more resources.

Still I think we’ll see improvements here over time as you say. :)

 

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GOA_FirebirdCRI_VR

I remember combat box on their begins, they make a mission on kuban that imitate the D-day , with landing crafts, coast defences and a very cool stuff of D-day, of course there are not troops and small beach objets, but the aerial task makes the missions fun , maybe this escenario be the same with BON expansion.

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I don't really understand some of the offensive responses to OP about this topic. To me it looked like a quite normal question and/or hope what he'd like to see in BoN.

As for the time period, from store page "...skies over the Normandy and Calais regions of France before and after the Allied invasion of Jun 6th, 1944. ... Battle of Normandy will explore and recreate the drama as the Allies try to use airpower to secure the invasion beachhead and force a breakout to march towards Paris and Germany itself." Possibly devs have been even more specific in some forum thread.

How the DDay itself will be done, we will see. Battle of Stalingrad was done without putting two million men on the battlefield and BoN probably won't show the true scale of DDay invasion force, but from the marketing view it would be a very odd move to just skip the day that most of the Western world considers the most important day of WWII.

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If the time frame will be D-Day I suppose it will be a similar solution as Stalingrad or the no man's land in Flying Circus. Quite empty with some brownish textures, smoke columns and once in a while an explosion.

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Its caled battle of normandy for a reason, youll get some units, map of area and Mission Builder, no one stops anyone to waist their time making D-Day mission. I hope devs wont waist their time making it.

Regarding infantry they are only needed for TC to make it more intense, and thats simple ai type infantry not making a shooter.

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1PL-Husar-1Esk
1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Regarding infantry they are only needed for TC to make it more intense, and thats simple ai type infantry not making a shooter.

And for FC, trenches were full of infantry. Low level attack against  infantry  where common in 1918, especially during big pushes. In those relatively slow airplanes it's easy to aim and shoot at them or drop small bomb.

 

 

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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AEthelraedUnraed
10 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Static units and a few "live" units are no problem in the engine, I think a reasonable effect is possible.

Just keep expectations reasonable...I wouldn't expect any simulation engine to handle even 20% of D-Day where "live" units are concerned.

This. If the Devs make static versions of the ships with good LOD levels, I see no reason some depiction of D-Day wouldn't be possible. The game engine is capable of simultaneously showing thousands of houses and trees, so since there are no major cities nearby, a couple of hundred ships should be feasible. Nothing quite the scale of the real landings, obviously, but I think it's possible to create a believable representation.

 

As for infantry, I made this little mod a while ago:

Thousands of infantry won't work obviously, for the same reason as thousands of ships won't work. But it's definitely possible to have something like 5 moving landing crafts that each spawn 5-10 soldiers when they arrive at the beach, carefully timed with your Fw-190 flight so that you can then strafe them :)

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PatrickAWlson
11 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

It never seems to work out that way though. Thinking of EAW, or even 1946.

 

Computers get faster, but the software demands more resources.

Still I think we’ll see improvements here over time as you say. :)

 

 

Writing software to demand more resources is a design decision.  One of my all time favorite games, Kingdom Come Deliverance,  was playable for me when it first came out, but it had its issues.  A computer upgrade later it runs great.  IL2 is in the same category.  It ran well enough on my previous computer (which did not stink) but it's much, much better on my new one.  

 

Relating this to GB, the team has to be aware that performance is an issue and work hard not to let new features consume ever more precious CPU time.  Not easy, but necessary.  I would rate performance as the #1 GB issue at this point, which is another way of saying kudos to the 1C AI developers for the excellent work that they have done.  I am optimistic.  I think that there are some CPU cycles to be saved in the GB code.  The team needs the bandwidth to cut loose with a profiler and six months to a year of continuous improvement, and I completely understand that that bandwidth is hard to come by.

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[CPT]Crunch
On 9/24/2021 at 7:55 PM, Rjel said:

No matter how much we've read about D-Day and the lead up to it, I doubt we can really appreciate the enormity of it all. The labor involved in the production of materials, the training of troops and just getting it all in place for the invasion is still mind boggling.

And than to do it less than a month later in the Pacific on an even larger scale. 😁

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