Jump to content

What are the best dogfight training sessions available?


tednturanski
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm relatively new to Sturmovik compared to most of you.  I can fly LaGG-3 and Yak-1 quite well.  What is new to me are the combat situations, like dogfights etc.  I'm not quite fast enough on the stick or steady enough on the trigger yet.  Been practicing with LaGG-3 ser29 Flight School which I was directed to in the Steam Guide section associated with Sturmovik.  Had to run the section on dogfight about a dozen times before seeing the "Mission Accomplished" message, so I am below 10% when it comes to battle.  I'm thinking that if I keep trying out different missions, quick missions, and careers that I might get better with time.  If anyone can perceive where I am at in the learning curve and has any suggestions that might be helpful to me at this stage please leave your comments.  One thing I have learned is that this forum is an important key to advancement in the skills needed to enjoy this hobby more fully.  Thank you!   Ted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you really want to super-charge your learning, nothing beats some 1-on-1 tutoring. 

You will find many people willing to offer that, myself included, if you can make 6-10pm gmt. If those times are good, send me a pm, if they are not, send one anyway and I'll find someone in a different timezone for you. 

 

It can be helpful to know some terms to Google for reading material. Read about the following terms until you understand them well :

 

Corner speed

Energy fighting 

One circle and two circle fight 

Scissors and rolling scissors

Lead, pure and lag pursuit

Yoyo turns, displacement rolls and other out of plane manoeuvres: learn their purpose, not just how to do them 

 

Especially if you plan to play multiplayer, focus heavily on situational awareness. If you are making the calls about how the sortie goes, then all your combat losses will be a result of poor SA. 

 

Know where the threats are and where they might be. Know how you can deal with them. Have an escape plan. 

Edited by [DBS]Browning
phone mistakes
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tednturanski said:

I'm relatively new to Sturmovik compared to most of you.  I can fly LaGG-3 and Yak-1 quite well.  What is new to me are the combat situations, like dogfights etc.  I'm not quite fast enough on the stick or steady enough on the trigger yet.  Been practicing with LaGG-3 ser29 Flight School which I was directed to in the Steam Guide section associated with Sturmovik.  Had to run the section on dogfight about a dozen times before seeing the "Mission Accomplished" message, so I am below 10% when it comes to battle.  I'm thinking that if I keep trying out different missions, quick missions, and careers that I might get better with time.  If anyone can perceive where I am at in the learning curve and has any suggestions that might be helpful to me at this stage please leave your comments.  One thing I have learned is that this forum is an important key to advancement in the skills needed to enjoy this hobby more fully.  Thank you!   Ted. 

Have you tried Requiem's Air Combat Tutorial Library on YouTube?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I created a QMB mission flying a Lagg3 against an MC202 on the Stalingrad Winter map. I then used the Mission Editor and saved it to the Mission Folder. Once that was done I could use the Mission Editor to substitute other planes for the Lagg3 in order to access different matchups against the MC202. Those include the I16, Mig3 and P40 to date. It's easy then to practice any of the air combat tactics described above. The only "Mission Accomplished" acknowledgement I need is to make a good landing and taxi to blast shelter or hangar after a fight. With the I16 the best I can do so far is to stalemate the MC202. Second most difficult is the P40 since it requires constant attention to manifold pressure limitations.

Edited by Dagwoodyt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did it like this:

Pure shooting skills:

in the realism settings leave flight model ect on realistic but turn on aiming help. Now a Red Cross hair will mark your aiming point calculating the deflection for you. Set up a quick mission against a lumbering easy target without a turret: early IL-2s or a HS 129. Shoot them down until it becomes easy for you.

Then switch to a more nimble target set on rookie that in performance is still inferior to your chosen plane. For the Lagg3 the Mc202 should work, for the yak a 109f2. This time concentrate on how the fuselage looks in your gunsight when you hit.  
After this becomes easy turn off the aiming help and repeat. When this gets easy you have learned aerial gunnery. 
After that tactics are in order. Here reading, watching videos or pairing up with a partner will do the trick. 
 

If you’re usually quite precise in your movement and have the feeling something is odd with your joystick you might be right. I started with a cheap thrustmaster HOTAS X10 or something and when I upgrade to a middle class T16000 Thrustmaster stick I suddenly brought my gunnery to a whole new level. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first rule that I follow is to practice a little every day. Even for as little as a half hour, doesn't matter. The consistency will pay off eventually, just as it would with playing music or drawing or anything else.

 

I usually practice with quick missions, 1v1. Don't be afraid of using Allied planes for target drones even if you're piloting Allied planes. I don't think any of the Axis fighters are good for practicing against (they're too agile); not while you're still learning. My favorite drones when I first began were the P-40 and P-47.

 

Another important factor is to practice at very low altitudes. 300m starting altitude in my case. I believe this is useful in training because it eventually becomes second nature to maneuver on the deck without fear of hitting the ground. The other advantage is that the AI's behavior becomes more predictable, which is precisely what you want for training purposes.

 

Observe the following recording:

 

Spoiler

 

 

You will find that the AI, when fighting on the deck, in a plane that cannot outrun you, resorts to one of two possible behaviors:

 

First, it will attempt to shake you off in low speed jinks. When you see it's about to do this, cut your throttle. It's good to practice firing at a jinking AI for various reasons, especially for targeting specific parts of the plane like the cockpit or engine.

 

When you want to practice deflection shooting, don't shoot the AI as it jinks. Allow it to regain its speed and follow it into its turns. This makes for excellent deflection training.

 

Note that all I've said above applies to AI set to Ace level. I'm unsure how lower AI settings affect its behavior. Ace AI is nothing to be afraid of, as long as it's in an inferior plane (at low altitudes anyway).

Edited by oc2209
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, something else I thought of:

 

Always fire your guns separately when training. You want to learn the different trajectories independently of each other. So in Russian planes, this means learning to hit targets with only machine guns, or only cannons. Never both. This is vitally necessary to learn so as to conserve ammunition and strike accurately.

 

The only time it's acceptable to fire both types of gun simultaneously is when you're firing at almost zero deflection, at point blank range. Then you give everything you've got. Otherwise, it's both wasteful and a poor teaching aid to fire all guns all the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like Columbo now, but, just one more thing.

 

The Typhoon is an excellent target drone, possibly the best in the sim, because it has a poor roll rate. As such, it allows you to aim very deliberately at it, especially in a turn. Something else it has going for it, is the DVD (dynamic visual damage) system that shows holes where your bullets impacted. Only the Typhoon and P-51 currently have the DVD system implemented, with more planes expected to follow. It's not very useful with low caliber guns (they make tiny holes), but for 12.7mm and above, it becomes helpful to see where exactly you're hitting your target.

 

You want to keep the Typhoon slow and weak, so load it up like this:

 

20210914191320_1.thumb.jpg.152705b3c7bfea5db8723a4431669389.jpg

 

100% fuel load as well. Conversely, to make yourself a little more nimble, cut your fuel load to 70% or so.

 

Here's an example of what I mean by how easy a target it can be:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/13/2021 at 5:31 PM, tednturanski said:

I'm relatively new to Sturmovik compared to most of you.  I can fly LaGG-3 and Yak-1 quite well.  What is new to me are the combat situations, like dogfights etc.  I'm not quite fast enough on the stick or steady enough on the trigger yet.  Been practicing with LaGG-3 ser29 Flight School which I was directed to in the Steam Guide section associated with Sturmovik.  Had to run the section on dogfight about a dozen times before seeing the "Mission Accomplished" message, so I am below 10% when it comes to battle.  I'm thinking that if I keep trying out different missions, quick missions, and careers that I might get better with time.  If anyone can perceive where I am at in the learning curve and has any suggestions that might be helpful to me at this stage please leave your comments.  One thing I have learned is that this forum is an important key to advancement in the skills needed to enjoy this hobby more fully.  Thank you!   Ted. 

 

Quick mission. 

 

You vs 2 at a medium or easy difficulty to start. 

 

Once you get better put it to Ace, field 3 enemies against you. As you improve put yourself at a disadvantage, give the AI altitude advantage. Fly older aircraft. 

 

Energy management, situational awareness, evasion tactics and accurate shooting are absolutely essential to survival. Engine management is also critical here as to down all three. It can take a while.

 

Fly straight to long. Dead.

Stayed on a six to long. Dead.

Blew all your energy at a bad time. Dead. 

Sloppy head on where they had the drop. Dead. 

Lost one of them? Extra dead. 

 

 

 

The ultimate challenge would be online. Unpredictable enemies. Very aggressive dogfights and most of your opponents are pushing their aircraft to the absolute envelope. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Way back in the day this was the recommended book, and it definitely helped me understand the basic concepts a lot better:

 

Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuevering by Robert L. Shaw

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, one last bit of advice from me:

 

If I were you, I would stop practicing with the LaGG-3. It's not an ideal practice plane because its relatively inferior performance has the ultimate effect of making everything you do more difficult than it needs to be. I'm not saying you should never fly it again, but until you have more experience (to compensate for its flaws), you should restrict your combat training to the Yak-1 exclusively. Then, once you've become very comfortable with all aspects of combat in the Yak-1, branch out from there.

 

This will also be useful when/if you buy more planes later on (the Yak-9 and Yak-1b are just like the Yak-1, but better). By contrast, the LaGG-3 is something of a dead end, because subsequent iterations of its design (the La-5 series) are quite different in handling and performance, such that it's akin to having to learn how to fly a new plane entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

best dogfight training sessions available is someone on coms training you, you cant bet that in how fast you improve, he will instantly be able to tell you what you need to improve and what your doing wrong, and you can adapt to it faster, practicing in SP or in MP alone will be mutch longer and youll maybe lern wrong things from start. If im new and wont to learn fast how to be good at DF i would go on coms and ask whos willing to practice.

If im you i would take Browning offer and get on coms with him and learn from his tips.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tednturanski

Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my question.  Together, you have all provided exactly the textbook that I needed to progress in becoming more proficient as a Stalingrad fighter pilot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My advice is:

1) start in QMB, but don't get stuck there. 2-3 days is enough.

2) go to MultiPlayer and join BERLOGA server. It's a pure dog-fight server, not a mission based. The opposing aircrafts are placed on the same altitude facing each other. Pick a plane and jump right in to the fight and start paying attention to what other players are doing.

 

I have 2k+ hours in this game. First 200 hours were spent in SP, which was awesome, however the only thing I learned there was the AI capabilities and that's it. When you join the MP you suddenly realize the airplanes can do so much more. You quickly learn to use the horizontal stabilizer and sometimes flaps in order to either follow someone who's trying to shake you or vice versa. Don't be afraid to use the multi-player chat and ask questions, people are mostly cool and will give you hints. If you can ask someone to do a 1:1 with an intent to learn there'll be a lot people willing to teach you, seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tednturanski

OK 30speed, got your comment added to the others.   There has been so much good advice on this thread that I hand copied  the contents of every reply in my notebook.  Taken all together, it is the direction that I needed, and I will be able to refer to the comments from my notebook to refresh my mind on these important points.  

Also,  [DBS]Browning  -  look for a pm that I sent.

Ted

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...