Jump to content

Any plans to fix campaigns?


CrazyJow
 Share

Recommended Posts

CrazyJow

First off I love this game and I'm not a multi-player/online player at all. I'm Single player, official/scripted campaign, single missions only type of person. 

 

My biggest issue is with official campaigns. Constantly I am followed all the way home (even on a 100+ mile trip home) and then I'm strafed either as I'm trying to land or I'm shot down at my airfield. I've tried all the settings, only way to get around it is to leave the mission before you land. But the over eager AI pilots are relentless to say the least. Even on easy setting. They'll follow you no matter the distance to your airfield. It kills any love I have for the official campaigns. I always end having to play scripted or quick mission or make one in pwcg which is not what I want to do. Several times I've come home with no ammo, so I can't even do anything but hope and pray AI Spaa takes them out (which they don't). I just wanna be able to play a campaign thru without being shot down as I'm trying to land by crazy AI. Is there any plans to fix this? I don't want the spaa's I'm not interested in that at all. I wanna fly.

Edited by CrazyJow
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

justin_z3r0
7 minutes ago, CrazyJow said:

First off I love this game and I'm not a multi-player/online player at all. I'm Single player, official/scripted campaign, single missions only type of person. 

 

My biggest issue is with official campaigns. Constantly I am followed all the way home (even on a 100+ mile trip home) and then I'm strafed either as I'm trying to land or I'm shot down at my airfield. I've tried all the settings, only way to get around it is to leave the mission before you land. But the over eager AI pilots are relentless to say the least. Even on easy setting. They'll follow you no matter the distance to your airfield. It kills any love I have for the official campaigns. I always end having to play scripted or quick mission or make one in pwcg which is not what I want to do. Several times I've come home with no ammo, so I can't even do anything but hope and pray AI Spaa takes them out (which they don't). I just wanna be able to play a campaign thru without being shot down as I'm trying to land by crazy AI. Is there any plans to fix this? I don't want the spaa's I'm not interested in that at all. I wanna fly.

Agree the AI chasing me all the way back kills it for me. It becomes a bit repetitive too. This is where I think pwcg shines. I’ve almost completely switched to only using pwcg for campaigns. It seems to have the AI issue sorted out as they usually disengage before you get back to base. Plus the mission types and weather are more interesting.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CrazyJow
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, justin_z3r0 said:

Agree the AI chasing me all the way back kills it for me. It becomes a bit repetitive too. This is where I think pwcg shines. I’ve almost completely switched to only using pwcg for campaigns. It seems to have the AI issue sorted out as they usually disengage before you get back to base. Plus the mission types and weather are more interesting.

 

I agree, but I also own these campaigns that I paid for with real money so I'd like to play them. I wanna play them but I can't because of that. Honestly PWCG is what I always end up falling back on because I get so frustrated, but it shouldn't be that way though. 

Edited by CrazyJow
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

justin_z3r0
3 minutes ago, CrazyJow said:

 

I agree, but I also own these these campaigns that I paid for with real money so I'd like to play them. I wanna play them but I can't because of that. 

Yeah. They were really fun when I first started with great battles but the AI chasing has really made it less so. It caused me to find pwcg though and I’m really glad I did. 

Edited by justin_z3r0
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CrazyJow
Just now, justin_z3r0 said:

Yeah. They were really fun when I first started with great battles but the AI chasing has really made it less so.

 

100% on that one. I've noticed a lot of user requested updates recently so maybe (fingers crossed) they see this and makes some much needed changes to it. I'm still gonna fly and do my thing. I love PWCG. Just wish I didn't have to resort to it just to enjoy a campaign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jaegermeister

It depends entirely on waypoint priorities assigned to the AI planes in the scripted mission. If the Attack command is equal or higher priority than the RTB waypoint for the EAC, they will follow you. The easiest method I have found is a zone covering the front line that assigns a high priority RTB waypoint to the EAC, who should be following a medium priority Attack command up to that point.

 

The down side that people also complain about is that the EAC will then head for home and ignore attacks from friendly AC. You can't have it both ways.

 

There is also a check box now for "AI Return to Base Decision" that might have an impact on this issue, as it was not available when some of those earlier Campaigns were written.   Edit... It's been around for a while, since 2015 at least

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PaladinX

 

Yesterday i flew a mission to protect our support troops near the Moscow frontline.

Me and my wingmen flew to the troops, where attached by some P40 and Sturmoviks. After 2-3 minutes, not a single enemy aircraft was shot down yet, the big MISSION SUCCESSFUL text appeared and my wingmen aborted the fight and turned home!!

On their way home, one fter another was shot down without reaction. After 5 minutes i was alone over the troops we had to protect, encircled by ca 6 enemy fighters.

Then i aborted as well, turned home and now you can guess who followed me the whole way home? Yes, the enemy fighters.

The IL2 attacked the ground troops and had a lot of fun with them.

 

Yes, great AI.

 

Today, i downloaded again some new campaigns for IL2 1946 with BAT mod, where you can really enjoy good AI behaviour.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Accept it as a challenge. Yes, it is not very accurate, but if you  hit the deck flying at VERY low altitude (tree top height) whilst taking extreme manoeuvres (yawing) the AI will use up all their ammo as you drag them over your friendly AA units. They will usually get damaged by this and if you have kept back some ammo, I find I can turn the tables as I circle home base and can knock down one or two of the chasers. I'm then able to make an evasive fast turn onto finals before any surviving chasers can get into a firing position. Works for me, and I get a buzz from having beaten the little bast@rds!!

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PatrickAWlson
1 hour ago, CrazyJow said:

 

100% on that one. I've noticed a lot of user requested updates recently so maybe (fingers crossed) they see this and makes some much needed changes to it. I'm still gonna fly and do my thing. I love PWCG. Just wish I didn't have to resort to it just to enjoy a campaign.

 

Think of it this way, the more people are willing to use PWCG the more time the developers have to work on the core product :) .  OK, you really don't want to hear that and I can't blame you.

 

Back on topic, the means to stop the AI from following you already exists.  There is no need for more code.  Mission designers have to use the capabilities that are already there.  In PWCG I put the "go home" buffer around each airbase that is back a certain distance.  If you are at a front located base then you are out of luck, or you can keep retreating to a more rearward base.  

 

What makes "go home" challenging to code explicitly is that there is no concept of a front line built into the software.  It is mission dependent.  If you don't know the front lines then you don't know where to place the "go home" buffers.  In a campaign, however, the front lines should be defined, so placement should be doable.

1 hour ago, PaladinX said:

 

 

On their way home, one fter another was shot down without reaction. After 5 minutes i was alone over the troops we had to protect, encircled by ca 6 enemy fighters.

 

 

The mission designer made the "go home" waypoints high priority, which causes the AI to be completely oblivious to the point where gunners will not even fire.  IMHO high priority is utterly useless and should never be used.  If the gunner AI was not disabled by high priority (been asking for this since 2009 in RoF, so holding my breath is not a good idea) then it would have value for bombers.  For fighters - never.  Medium AI will cause the planes to prefer to fly the route but they will defend themselves.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CrazyJow

Maybe I'm not understanding (probably the case honestly) or maybe I'm misreading the replies wrong. But are you guys talking about the actual campaigns/careers? Because I don't know if I'm misreading things or just don't understand the lingo. Maybe I'm just confused because I've never made a mission outside of PWCG and the terms you guys are using are going over my head. But that's what I'm talking about is the career. I've never seen anything you guys are talking about 
20210719162204_1.thumb.jpg.b907ff71d396df7c18e2f950016bc703.jpg

 

 

6 hours ago, Elem said:

Accept it as a challenge. Yes, it is not very accurate, but if you  hit the deck flying at VERY low altitude (tree top height) whilst taking extreme manoeuvres (yawing) the AI will use up all their ammo as you drag them over your friendly AA units. They will usually get damaged by this and if you have kept back some ammo, I find I can turn the tables as I circle home base and can knock down one or two of the chasers. I'm then able to make an evasive fast turn onto finals before any surviving chasers can get into a firing position. Works for me, and I get a buzz from having beaten the little bast@rds!!


 I honestly like that, but I'm not good (no joke honestly :( ) I tend to do more ground attack just because they don't move. I love fighters but I'm gonna be honest and tell you I suck at aiming and rarely get an air kill. I'll waste more ammo than getting actual hits. Sadly if I wanna go after air I usually gotta have the aim marker on.

 

 

7 hours ago, PaladinX said:

 

Yesterday i flew a mission to protect our support troops near the Moscow frontline.

Me and my wingmen flew to the troops, where attached by some P40 and Sturmoviks. After 2-3 minutes, not a single enemy aircraft was shot down yet, the big MISSION SUCCESSFUL text appeared and my wingmen aborted the fight and turned home!!

On their way home, one fter another was shot down without reaction. After 5 minutes i was alone over the troops we had to protect, encircled by ca 6 enemy fighters.

Then i aborted as well, turned home and now you can guess who followed me the whole way home? Yes, the enemy fighters.

The IL2 attacked the ground troops and had a lot of fun with them.

 

Yes, great AI.

 

Today, i downloaded again some new campaigns for IL2 1946 with BAT mod, where you can really enjoy good AI behaviour.

 

 I love 1946, its the reason i own this one. I just hate having to use the JSME or whatever its called. I also love the Japanese campaigns (torp planes are my jam, I love nothing more than dropping torps). That's something I hope one day will come to this if they get all the stuff they need. I own all of the "packs" from pre-order but if pacific ever came... i couldn't enter my credit card info fast enough

5 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Think of it this way, the more people are willing to use PWCG the more time the developers have to work on the core product :) .  OK, you really don't want to hear that and I can't blame you.

 

Back on topic, the means to stop the AI from following you already exists.  There is no need for more code.  Mission designers have to use the capabilities that are already there.  In PWCG I put the "go home" buffer around each airbase that is back a certain distance.  If you are at a front located base then you are out of luck, or you can keep retreating to a more rearward base.  

 

What makes "go home" challenging to code explicitly is that there is no concept of a front line built into the software.  It is mission dependent.  If you don't know the front lines then you don't know where to place the "go home" buffers.  In a campaign, however, the front lines should be defined, so placement should be doable.

 

The mission designer made the "go home" waypoints high priority, which causes the AI to be completely oblivious to the point where gunners will not even fire.  IMHO high priority is utterly useless and should never be used.  If the gunner AI was not disabled by high priority (been asking for this since 2009 in RoF, so holding my breath is not a good idea) then it would have value for bombers.  For fighters - never.  Medium AI will cause the planes to prefer to fly the route but they will defend themselves.

 

 Wow the actual PWCG guy. You have no idea how much you saved this game for me with your campaign. My hats off to you good sir and your amazing work. I love your program. Honestly no joke your program is what keeps me playing since I have issues with the career. So thank you for that and thank you for commenting :) 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PatrickAWlson

@CrazyJow 

The language in Great Battles is a little different.  What I always  called a campaign is a career in this game.  Campaigns in GB are series of hand crafted scripted mission that are sold separately (or given away of the author feels like it).  So yeah. it's different.  I named PWCG "Campaign Generator" 12 years ago before there was a career mode, so my naming can be confusing now.

 

As for making AI go home, I am saying it can be done in any mission.  The ability to trigger return to base on the AI is something that exists.  Campaigns and careers (both) have access to where the front lines are, and therefore the ability to set up "go home" buffers behind your lines.  Whether it happens is based solely on whether it was incorporated into a mission.

 

Glad you are enjoying PWCG.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PB0_Roll

I think Viks, who is in charge of conceiving missions for the carreer, doesn't play SP at all and never did, and this explains a lot of current career situation.

  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, PB0_Roll said:

I think Viks, who is in charge of conceiving missions for the carreer, doesn't play SP at all and never did, and this explains a lot of current career situation.

 

Nothing could be farther from the truth. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

PB0_Roll

Then why is it still such an appalling experience (like impossible odds and no player AI interaction unless player is flight leader) quite often as described above, if not for other priorities ? 

 

Viks used to be a known as a dogfight terror back in the days, not an offline player.

 

Playing SP for testing purpose only is not playing SP. When one doesn't look for immersion in SP, one cannot provide it for others.

 

I'd rather have you in charge LukeFF,  I'm certain you care for SP. Viks, not so much. Plus I'm certain he doesn't bother if 10 ennemy AIs follow him to his airfield, since he's able to down each of them with a single burst, remaining unscathed. Most players don't have this ability, as expressed above.

 

I don't read the russian forum though, maybe there he expressed his love for SP. If so, apologies.

 

Still..... planned career improvements on the dev level ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...