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cardboard_killer
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cardboard_killer

[80 Years ago today] "• The 3rd and 20th Pursuit Squadrons in the Philippines trade their Boeing P-26s for Seversky P-35As. There has been a delay in re-equipping as the USAAC had neglected to ship the Prestone antifreeze required for the P-35A Pratt & Whitney radial engines.

 

1730087664_BoeingP-26inthePI1940.jpg.fd3f17c3cbedd26cb6b5f2d5800e466a.jpg

Boeing P-26 in the PI 1940

 

402699890_P-35AsoverManilaBay.jpg.008b81830139a3f7596d0926551b65c7.jpg

P-35As over Manila Bay"

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No105_Swoose

Some of the P-26s were turned over to the fledgling Philippine Air Corps.  Not unlike Polish PZL 11s against the Luftwaffe in September 1939, they fought a gallant but doomed defense against the invading Japanese, and even managed to destroy a few planes, until they were all destroyed by the end of December 1941.

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No105_Swoose
22 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

No spoilers please :)

OK, except I have to mention my username - "Swoose" - honors a B-17D originally assigned to the 19th Bombardment Group that was one of the few survivors of the Japanese attack which destroyed most of MacArthur's bombers on the ground at Clark Field, P.I., on 8 December 1941.

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JG1_Vonrd
On 7/15/2021 at 2:42 PM, cardboard_killer said:

There has been a delay in re-equipping as the USAAC had neglected to ship the Prestone antifreeze required for the P-35A Pratt & Whitney radial engines.

 

 

I think they may have been talking about the P-40s that were being shipped to the Philippines. There is no antifreeze used in P&W radials (or any other operational radials that I know of). As I recall, there may have been some liquid cooled radials at some point but certainly none used in operational service by the USA. Being air cooled and therefore more damage resistant was one of the chief advantages of radials. 

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cardboard_killer

Yes, the blurb caught my attention as well. See:

 

 

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DD_Arthur
18 hours ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

There is no antifreeze used in P&W radials (or any other operational radials that I know of). As I recall, there may have been some liquid cooled radials at some point but certainly none used in operational service by the USA. Being air cooled and therefore more damage resistant was one of the chief advantages of radials. 

 

This isn’t anti-freeze in the sense of engine cooling but is essential to prevent carburettor icing which can starve an engine of fuel.

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cardboard_killer
2 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

This isn’t anti-freeze in the sense of engine cooling but is essential to prevent carburettor icing which can starve an engine of fuel.

 

Do you have a source for this? I understand the concept, but, at least with the F4F/F6F/F4U it seems like carb icing was a problem through the war (less so with the F6F due to the air source for the carb). And modern planes seem to use exhaust heat to keep the problem down, or electric heaters.

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LuseKofte
2 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

This isn’t anti-freeze in the sense of engine cooling but is essential to prevent carburettor icing which can starve an engine of fuel.

Was that not why they had carburettor heating?

I always believed that was electric heating

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cardboard_killer


HELLCAT VERSUS CORSAIR
 

The reason the Corsair was faster in the main stage blower was that its engine and carburetor were provided with ram air coming in directly from the forward facing wing duct, whereas the Hellcat had the carburetor air coming in from the accessory compartment of the fuselage just behind the engine, with no ram air effect. Our airplane was getting carburetor air at the same pressure as it would have were it motionless on the ground, and the Corsair was getting carburetor air supercharged by the speed of the airplane giving it more power (speed) in the main stage blower. In both aircraft, however, the designs were similar in that they provided ram air to the low and high blower stages. Our engineering department defended its position because taking the warmer air for the main stage blower would prevent inadvertent carburetor-icing engine failures. Many Wildcats that had ram air in the main stage like the Corsair were lost because pilots failed to take precautions in time to avert this type of disaster. The Hellcat design was reviewed and approved by the Navy. I had had a carburetor-icing accident during final approach on my first flight in a Wildcat a few months previously; it resulted in my first deadstick landing and a vertical ground loop. I therefore heartily agreed with the Navy’s decision.
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JG1_Vonrd

I could certainly be wrong but I have NEVER heard of anti-freeze being used to warm carb air in order to prevent carb ice. Perhaps in liquid cooled engines but certainly not in air cooled radials. As noted above, the supercharger heats the air from compressing the air. I don't really understand what Carboard_killer posted above. Pretty much all radials used a supercharger (and many had turbosuperchargers in addition... P-47, B-17, etc.) which will always heat the air due to compression... that's why all turbo or supercharged cars use an intercooler / charge air cooler to cool the induction air to get more power... cooler air = denser air = more power.

 

This isn’t anti-freeze in the sense of engine cooling but is essential to prevent carburettor icing which can starve an engine of fuel.

 

Technically, carb ice blocks off the induction air causing an extreme rich fuel / air ratio as well as constricting the air flow... basically closing the throttle. I would love to be proved wrong though. Can you provide reference to using anti-freeze in radial engines to prevent carb ice? 

 

 

Here's the entry from the Pilot's operating manual for the F4F. No anti-freeze noted...  🤣

 

f4f carb ice.jpg

Edited by JG1_Vonrd
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JG1_Vonrd

OK... for automotive liquid cooled engines:

In cars, carburetor icing can occasionally be a nuisance. The inlet manifold and parts of the carburetor often have warm water from the cooling system or exhaust gas circulating through them to combat this problem.

 

I was unable to find reference to preventing carb ice in WW2 era liquid cooled aircraft. I think the P-39 and maybe the P-40 might have used circulation of coolant around the induction to prevent ice formation (they did have carb inlet temp gauges and a switch for heat but I'm not sure what the source of the heat was. Makes sense to use the hot coolant though).

 

I still don't think it applies to air cooled radial engines.

 

I'm pretty sure that anti icing fluid was used on some propellers utilizing a slinger ring to flood the blades with fluid... maybe Glycol and / or alcohol.

Edited by JG1_Vonrd
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DD_Arthur
10 hours ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

I'm pretty sure that anti icing fluid was used on some propellers utilizing a slinger ring to flood the blades with fluid... maybe Glycol and / or alcohol.

 

Okay, after some research it appears I’m talking out of my backside - kind of😃!

I think Vonrd is correct in that the anti freeze was required for the propeller hub mechanism and the propeller blades themselves.

 I assumed it was used as a supplement to combat persistent carb icing in extreme conditions by injection into the inlet manifold.

This is incorrect.

However; what they did use on post war airliners such as the DC5, 6 and 7 to prevent extreme carb icing was alcohol injection into the inlet manifold.

 

Similar but not the same!

 

 

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cardboard_killer

[80 years ago today]

 

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Two USAAF B-18 bombers in the Philippines, 24 July 1941.

 

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cardboard_killer

[80 years ago today] "• In response to continuing aggression in China and the occupation or parts of French Indochina, President Franklin Roosevelt issues executive orders to freeze all Japanese and puppet Chinese assets, forbid the export of oil, iron, and rubber to Japan, as well as marking the Panama Canal off-limits to Japanese shipping. UK and the Netherlands will follow suit, though Britain signs an agreement with Thailand to exchange oil for rubber. Some of the oil will make its way to Japan.


• The Philippine Army is Federalized and retired Major General Douglas MacArthur is recalled to the US Army and promoted to Lieutenant General despite several cabinet officials urging President Roosevelt to leave MacArthur on the retired list. US Army Forces Far East is established, and is earmarked to receive 300 heavy bombers in addition to the 40 B-17s already en-route and 150 modern fighters in addition to the 110 P-40s already present or en-route.
 
426064621_MacArthurspeakingatinductionofPhilippineArmyandPhilippineArmyairCorpsintotheUSArmy.jpg.affd19678793aeff207b35b8e2eb5848.jpg
MacArthur speaking at induction of Philippine Army and Philippine Army air Corps into the US Army
 
 
154504064_PAACZablanFlightLine26July1941.jpg.7d174230f108b5105bad7de145dcb9a2.jpg
PAAC Zablan Flight Line 26 July 1941"
 
 
 
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  • 1 month later...
cardboard_killer

[80 years ago] "• The first B-17D bombers arrive at Clark Field to supplement the older B-18s and ancient B-10s. A light bombardment group with A-24 dive bombers (the Army version of the SBD Dauntless) and an additional fighter group with P-40s are ordered to embark for the Philippines. Over the next two months, George Marshall will coordinate the shipment of a million tons of military stores and ammunition to the islands.

 

1652088437_B-17DandP-35satIbaField.jpg.cc78cf390889208fae87350de9b77cb3.jpg

B-17D and P-35As at Iba Field in the Philippines.

• General George Marshall offers to transfer an additional infantry division to the Philippines. Lt-General MacArthur responds that with additional aircraft no further reinforcements will be necessary.

• At a war planning conference, Emperor Hirohito berates IJA Chief of Staff Hajime Sugiyama for having promised in 1937 that the Japanese invasion of China would be successful after three months, and questions his confidence in a quick victory over the Western powers.

- The attending flag officers and ministers are shocked, as the Emperor normally remains silent during the Imperial conferences and simply ratifies the decisions that are made. "

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cardboard_killer

[80 years ago today] "• Another reinforcement convoy arrives in the Philippines with fifty additional P-40E fighters allocated to the new 24th Pursuit Group. Also arriving is an anti-aircraft regiment for airfield defense plus the 192nd and 194th Tank Battalions, equipped with 108 new M3 light tanks and 46 halftracks.

 

641699580_P-40beinguncratedatNicholsFieldPI.jpg.fb19d60ebbfa03e6290115b485265f05.jpg

P-40 being uncrated at Nichols Field PI

 

488081338_M3tankonLuzon1941.jpg.accf103dedbd6ed20cf0a89c3a13e9cf.jpg

M3 tank on Luzon 1941"

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