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.50 cals


Voodoo-BlackDog
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44 minutes ago, Voodoo-BlackDog said:

When will the .50 cals be fixed please?  

The no 1 fighter pilot on Combat Box (Elanski) ........ his most used plane is a P51....are we sure they are broken?

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LR.TheRedPanda
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Voodoo-BlackDog said:

When will the .50 cals be fixed please?  

The 50s bullets are just ok BUT:

 

-There is no box/crosshatch convergence option or customisation which was used to increase effectiveness and distribution of rounds against a target.

- The actual dispersion of them is currently too low and they are too laser like

- API bullet type is not modelled, (acknowledged by devs that they are not sure about its implementation for now)

- Systems and hydraulic damage which is what 50s are suppose to target have only a few select failures and are not as punishing as they could be to some. The more they include in the future the better it will be. (They are working on a fuel and systems update so wait it out)

 

A lot of it is external factors we should have that are not modelled yet and I think we are all in agreement when the devs have the time after BoN they could maybe add some of them to improve the simulation and historical experience.

Edited by theRedPanda
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2 hours ago, Voodoo-BlackDog said:

When will the .50 cals be fixed please?  

Nothing wrong with them! They are very effective.

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QB.Creep
4 hours ago, Voodoo-BlackDog said:

When will the .50 cals be fixed please?  

Probably never, because despite mountains of indisputable evidence of a major problem between AP and HE damage modeling presented by many people in the community, the official response from the project manager was “please stop complaining, AP bullets make 13mm holes and HE bullets of the same size make 300mm holes”.

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Eisenfaustus
25 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

indisputable evidence

Hundreds of posts discussing let indisputable seem quite a claim...

 

28 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:

the official response from the project manager was “please stop complaining, AP bullets make 13mm holes and HE bullets of the same size make 300mm holes”.

Hard to believe - link?

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QB.Creep
8 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Hard to believe - link?

 

The evidence has been discussed ad nauseum and can be found in that same thread (and many others). @theRedPanda covered the issues at a high level above. To me, the most damning evidence is the fact that it takes roughly 80 rounds of .50 AP to equal one round of HE of a similar caliber (Russian UBS or German MG131). Something is off - either AP is under-modeled or HE is over-modeled.

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  • Jason_Williams locked this topic
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Jason_Williams

Guys.

 

As I've said many times we will see what we want to do, if anything, when we have time to focus on it. In the meantime, there are some mods you can play with if you'd like in the Mod section. 

 

Jason

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  • 2 weeks later...
pocketshaver

not much excitement, but i think the 50 cal is more effective now.... 

 

 

sounds different in the 51 and lightlning. Sorta like the emil wing mounted 20mm

 

and further proof that the AP in game is actually working like the real world product leaving people with the same real world performance that they just keep wanting to change.  

 

ironically the API they want still isnt going to be the magic bullet they want, ie 20mm he performance, but the excerpt you posted proves the point of EVERYTHING... 

 

aiming at fuel tanks... with an incendiary round was proven to be more effective then AP alone.

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  • 1 month later...
LR.King1

 

I shoot up a 109, i see some parts fly off, yet the guy can still hang with my undamaged P-51. I get shot with 1 burst - sometimes a single bullet and my max speed goes down to 200mph. Hey devs, what gives?

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RedKestrel
16 minutes ago, LR.King1 said:

 

I shoot up a 109, i see some parts fly off, yet the guy can still hang with my undamaged P-51. I get shot with 1 burst - sometimes a single bullet and my max speed goes down to 200mph. Hey devs, what gives?

The MG rounds of the late war 109s have HE filler in them and they are basically modeled as leaving a foot-wide hole in your wing.

The AP .50 cals are basically modeled as leaving a 0.5 inch hole for each hit.

Testing has shown you need about +/-80 rounds of .50 cal hits on one section of the wing to equal one hit of the HE 13mm in terms of aero damage. by the time you get that many hits on one section of the wing you've usually severed the wing spar, it's almost literally impossible right now for the .50 cals to cause appreciable aerodynamic damage.

Devs are aware of all this and have previously stated they may look at it when they have time. That's the long and short of it.

Pilot kills, engine fires, and engine damage are the only realistic way to get kills with the .50 cals at this point. You can also often take the wingtip off the 109s as this is not as difficult to do as to sever the entire wing and it usually results in a kill. 
 

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LR.King1
7 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Devs are aware of all this and have previously stated they may look at it when they have time. That's the long and short of it.
 

 

That sounds like lip service tbh

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6./ZG26_Custard

I can already see people reaching for the popcorn...... 

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357th_Dog

Can't wait for the FUDwaffe to roll in on this one and sandbag a legitimate conversation to the point where the mods have to roll in and shut it down, thereby smothering anything useful 

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RedKestrel
42 minutes ago, LR.King1 said:

 

That sounds like lip service tbh

In the past when they have said this they generally have done so eventually - with things like aircraft visibility, for example. But there's never a timeline given so it could be a month, a year, or more. Or never. Who knows. Small team, limited resources, etc... I don't think there's any bad faith but it really does seem from some of the feedback in other threads that at least some of the devs think the current situation is reasonable, which is incredible to me. 

 

3 minutes ago, 357th_Dog said:

Can't wait for the FUDwaffe to roll in on this one and sandbag a legitimate conversation to the point where the mods have to roll in and shut it down, thereby smothering anything useful 

At this point everything useful has been provided ad nauseum and we are just walking in circles. The devs have all the input and testing and basically everything that the community can produce. I don't know how anyone can look at what's been established for the damage difference between the HE MGs and the AP MGs and say its reasonable - there is just no way that tiny amount of HE in an MG round does that much damage, while a similarly sized AP round leaves only nice and neat holes with no impact on aerodynamics... until the wing just falls right off. Maybe no one has a magic historical document showing exactly what damage a .50 cal round does but surely we can agree this strains all credulity.  But here we are.  Anyone not convinced yet by the extensive testing cannot be convinced there is an issue, IMO.

I had a dim hope that a brief explanation of the established facts at the top of the thread would be enough to head things off... but I predict a few more reasonable posts, a flamewar and then a threadlock. Hell, I came into this thread just to explain the cold hard facts but here I am opinionating, so what hope do we have after all lol.

 

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I don't have another one in me 

 

 

Anyone wanna tag in?

 

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CountZero
1 hour ago, LR.King1 said:

 

I shoot up a 109, i see some parts fly off, yet the guy can still hang with my undamaged P-51. I get shot with 1 burst - sometimes a single bullet and my max speed goes down to 200mph. Hey devs, what gives?

You see, 109 was build so teribly that even big whole in wing dont affect his flying performances mutch, poor labor and bad materials, germans were lucky.

On the other hand americans were so big perfecionists and had great work etics so P-51 is so well build and designed that even small speck on its wing can hurt its performance, its perfect design is hurting him when put in war, its best used in races.

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357th_Dog
7 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

In the past when they have said this they generally have done so eventually - with things like aircraft visibility, for example. But there's never a timeline given so it could be a month, a year, or more. Or never. Who knows. Small team, limited resources, etc... I don't think there's any bad faith but it really does seem from some of the feedback in other threads that at least some of the devs think the current situation is reasonable, which is incredible to me. 

 

At this point everything useful has been provided ad nauseum and we are just walking in circles. The devs have all the input and testing and basically everything that the community can produce. I don't know how anyone can look at what's been established for the damage difference between the HE MGs and the AP MGs and say its reasonable - there is just no way that tiny amount of HE in an MG round does that much damage, while a similarly sized AP round leaves only nice and neat holes with no impact on aerodynamics... until the wing just falls right off. Maybe no one has a magic historical document showing exactly what damage a .50 cal round does but surely we can agree this strains all credulity.  But here we are.  Anyone not convinced yet by the extensive testing cannot be convinced there is an issue, IMO.

I had a dim hope that a brief explanation of the established facts at the top of the thread would be enough to head things off... but I predict a few more reasonable posts, a flamewar and then a threadlock. Hell, I came into this thread just to explain the cold hard facts but here I am opinionating, so what hope do we have after all lol.

 




No you're completely right...I'm just frustrated. I don't want to make it a simple thing about money..but the amount of money I have invested in this overall sim and company is not insignificant, and it's damned frustrating to have a fairly significant chunk of the plane set be less effective than they should be, regardless of pilot skill and "aim better" business. 

I won't contribute further to the toxicity or negativity, but yeah...good stuff. 

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