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J5_Spyboy

It got nerfed after I d/loaded update 5.4.2. 

Checking Naturalpoint forums I did a complete reinstall including editing registry files etc. Thorough!

Tried a test flight and I was looking backwards in my P39. F9 then manually reposition view F10 to save. Except it jumps back to look over port wing! 

Dunno what to do to resolve, so any advice really appreciated.

Salute and thank you.!

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76SQN-Bulldog

Hey J5,

 

I have no idea as to what could be the issue as I tap F10 to save the view for each aircraft. F9, for me, stops TrackIR5 working.

 

Are there settings in IL-2 settings?

 

Bulldog

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JG7_X-Man

@J5_Spyboy I'd go through all you Axes (plural of Axis) and make sure the "invert box" is not checked. If it is, uncheck it.

 

image.thumb.png.2c8a7bc9372a0d41370b2e5dbc014325.png

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J5_Spyboy
Posted (edited)

@JG7_X-Man Thank you but, invert is not checked. I have always used TIR in a vanilla state I don't have any profiles etc in use. I have only had to do, until now, one reinstall in 7 years. The Naturalpoint forums are helpful but not a quick in their responses as here!

I am wondering if the camera unit could be at fault.

Edited by J5_Spyboy
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Nadelbaum
Posted (edited)

I've had some trouble with reflections from the room (or even sunlight) getting to the IR unit and causing chaotic jumping of the view. Have you checked in the TrackIR software that you get 3 clean green dots each time and no red stuff here and there?

 

Just my two cents based on own experience.

Edited by Nadelbaum
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FlyingH

Another thing to try is unchecking true wiev. Sometimes that helps for strange behavior.

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J5_Spyboy
Posted (edited)

Thank you for the helpful suggestions pilots.

I have done another reinstall and restored some functionality, I have to report it is not working as it should though, mainly I am unable to look to the right. There are also unwanted jerkings and looking up, usually at an critical point in the flight!  I am beginning to think that it is the camera unit.

Edited by J5_Spyboy
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216th_Nocke

Have you done what Nadelbaum suggested? Gone to camera mode, looked around, checked you get the three green dots all the time?

I once had the problem that parts of my headset were reflecting the IR from the device, took me quite some time to figure that out. Move your hand around, shadowing different areas, to find out from where disturbances may be coming.

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VSlash
On 5/14/2021 at 10:41 PM, J5_Spyboy said:

It got nerfed after I d/loaded update 5.4.2. 

Checking Naturalpoint forums I did a complete reinstall including editing registry files etc. Thorough!

Tried a test flight and I was looking backwards in my P39. F9 then manually reposition view F10 to save. Except it jumps back to look over port wing! 

Dunno what to do to resolve, so any advice really appreciated.

Salute and thank you.!

Isn't F9, F10 etc a default key for Center, Pause, Precision etc in TIR software? 

 

If I understood you correctly, you need to change this in TIR Software (or change keys in IL-2, so that keys wouldn't overlap) 

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Drano

The TIR software is looking for a specific pattern of dots from the camera. The pattern is different depending on which mode you're using. Make sure you have the right mode selected. In one mode the camera unit projects IR light at you. It's looking for that light being reflected back from the ball cap clip. I think this is passive mode. In the other mode, active, it's looking for the IR lights on the active clip--the one you plug into USB wth the IR LEDs on it. The light pattern for that clip is verticle where the ball cap clip is horizontal. 

 

Either way the camera can pick up ANY other source of IR light around you. As was suggested, go to camera mode in the software. You should see three dots and ONLY three dots. You can adjust the sensitivity of the camera to try and tune other things out to some extent. If there are other dots or odd shapes in view that means you have something else behind you like maybe sunlight coming through a window or maybe a mirror. Block that out. Do what you have to do to make sure that three dot pattern it's looking for is all it sees. Otherwise you'll get odd stuff happening with your views. 

 

I had a problem when I wore my glasses. They were reflecting the IR light back from the camera when I moved my head a certain way in ball cap mode. When I did that a fourth dot would show up on the camera and the software would pick that one as the third dot. My view would go nuts! I switched to the active clip but the problem persisted. Turns out that while you can raise or lower the intensity of the IR lights shining at you in the camera, the lowest setting was still at 10%. These lights are still on when using the active clip mode! Why that is I couldn't tell you. You'd think that if you were using the active clip the lights won't be needed so they'd be off? But I didn't write the software hehe. So I was still getting that reflection back from my glasses. I found I could disable the light entirely by editing the config file. Once I did that I was good to go. 

 

Full disclosure I've been in VR for a couple of years now but that was my experience with TIR. 

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J5_Spyboy
Posted (edited)

@Drano, Thanks for that considered response. I do get the 3 green dots. The camera engaged light at the bottom right of the page shows green to indicate its working. The camera tracking status light doesn't always show and is yellow when it does which makes me think its the  camera unit. I have emailed NaturalPoint to see if they will sell one.

Edited by J5_Spyboy
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Drano

If the camera is seeing the dots properly the software should see that and be tracking. Are you sure you have the software in the correct mode? Like I was saying before, it's looking for that specific three dot pattern for the mode you're using. The modes are not interchangeable as the patterns are different. That might explain why you're seeing three dots but the software isn't tracking. If you're using the plug-in clip with the IR lights on it make sure it's not bent or broken. If it's out of alignment that will affect tracking. 

 

I wish I could help you better. I have my camera on top of my monitor but it isn't even plugged in! I built a new PC a year ago and this machine doesn't have the software installed on or I'd give it a look. It's my backup in case the RiftS goes tango uniform. 

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J5_Spyboy
Posted (edited)

Further to my troubles with TrackIR, here is the continuation that I have put on Naturalpoints forum page. Any pilots that live around Oregon who happen to know Jon the Sales Manager can give him a heads up to improve their customer communication skills, there are a lot of unsatisfied posts on the forums, a real shame because its a great product I am sure we would all agree.

So thinking the camera was at fault I looked around for a replacement. I sent a query, so far unanswered, to Naturalpoint asking if they would sell a replacement camera.
Looking around the usual places (Amazon) I found a Natuaralpoint TIR5 which was unbranded but used NP literature in its sales pictures. Using the contact 'support@naturalpoint.com' I sent the link to NP to show them what I suspected was a copy that was using NPs intellectual property.
Almost by return I got an email from the product sales manager Jon confirming indeed it was a copy and advising not to buy. By return I replied telling him about my track clip problem and enquiring about a replacement camera. No reply. 4 days later still no reply, so much for support!
Anyway I remembered the Track Clip Pro I got with the unit when I bought it in 2011. Found it, plugged it in and .... it worked like a charm.
So now Naturalpoint can you answer me how that can be? It wont work with the hat clip but works with the TrackClip. All on default settings, not even moving the camera position.
Go figure, I can not.

Edited by J5_Spyboy
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Drano

I'm really thinking you were trying to run it in the (wrong) active mode, (the one that's looking for the active IR clip pattern that is verticle) but were wearing the ball cap clip. As I'd explained, in passive mode (for the ball cap clip) two things are happening. One is it's looking for the more horizontal pattern of the ball cap clip but it won't see that at all if, two, the IR lights in the camera unit aren't shining (as would be the case in active mode or maybe turned way down) at you to be reflected back from the reflectors on the ball cap clip. If it's not seeing that very specific pattern reflected back to the camera it's not going to track right no matter what you do. It's not just looking for three dots, it's looking for three dots in that specific orientation for the mode the unit is in. I'm thinking this is the case because you say it worked right away when putting on the IR clip. You put on the  IR clip and bingo! Now the camera is seeing what it's supposed to be seeing in that mode and can now track you. Now you can start the fun of tweaking the curves for each axis!

 

Here's a link to a  pdf I found explaining what I'm talking about with pics of both modes.

 

https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/condor/CondorCorner-2014-04.pdf

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J5_Spyboy

Thanks for the prompt response @Drano.I was running in the correct configuration. I switched from hat to clip to get it running. To be clear in hat mode with the hat it doesnt work properly. In clip mode with the clip, it does. I am just pleased to have it working and you are right I can now utilise my greater understanding of the software to tweak it. I have had it since 2011 using the hat with default profile without a problem till now. Thanks for the link its very useful.

More importantly I have yet to receive any communication from Naturalpoint which given that the sales manager could reply by return when I alerted them to the copy, indicates that the customer service needs sharpening up. Have a look at the Naturalpoint forums to see the number of unanswered queries. It is a shame as it is an innovative product which is seeing other systems and VR eating into its market share!

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Drano

In hat mode there are IR LEDs in the camera that are shining at you to be reflected by the hat clip. If you have their intensity turned way down or toggled off that's a problem as the software needs a consistent view of the reflected dots in order to track you. It should look like the pic in the pdf. Nice and bright. This can be tweaked by increasing the brightness of the LEDs and also the sensitivity of the camera. The settings for that are in the camera tab of the software I think. If you have those things cranked up and still aren't getting a bright set of dots in camera view you may have bad LEDs in the camera itself. In that case your only choice would be using the IR clip. 

 

I found the IR clip to do a better job of tracking anyway. That and because I was in that mode meant I didn't need the camera's LEDs at all so I could just disable them solving the random reflections from my glasses which were really messing with the tracking. FYI that clip is kinda fragile so be careful with it. 

 

In my first attempt to beat the random reflection problem I'd actually built an active ball cap that had three IR LEDs in it that were in the cap clip pattern plugged into USB for power. Found a wiring diagram, I think it was on these forums, with a calculator on it to figure what parts I needed. Got the stuff at a local Radio Shack--back when that existed. I used it in cap clip mode wth the camera LEDs turned off. It worked fine. 

 

You just need to give the software what it wants to see. It doesn't care how that happens. 

 

Oh and I don't know that NP is even still alive. As you saw the software hadn't been updated in quite a while. Forums are quiet too. 

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