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Trees as an obstacle to shooting


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greybeard_52


I am irritated by the systematic presence of trees WHEREVER there is a target on the ground, fixed or mobile, to hit. I'm speaking of missions generated in careers. I wonder, isn't Russia famous for its steppes? Where were all these woods and tree-lined avenues around Stalingrad? In the photos of the time I see the German tanks advancing in the midst of desolate lands ...

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greybeard_52

And when there are no trees ... there are houses! I just finished a mission crashing into a building in a useless attempt to hit trucks parked close to the walls of narrow alleys between very tall buildings ...😡

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SharpeXB

You just have to complain about everything huh?

 

They know what the terrain looks or looked like. It’s been discussed. Everything gets discussed.... 

38 minutes ago, greybeard_52 said:

And when there are no trees ... there are houses! 

So there were no houses in Stalingrad? 🤔

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AEthelraedUnraed

Well vehicles tend to take cover among the trees if they see enemy aircraft coming. That's just the way it was in WW2, and its the way it is in IL2.

 

That being said, although all woods on the Stalingrad map are historically correct as far as I can tell, I do find that too many roads are lined with trees. For instance, there's a couple of photographs from August 1942 that I've been able to pinpoint. On the photographs there's not a tree in sight, but in-game there are several tree-lined roads rather close by....

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greybeard_52
9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

So there were no houses in Stalingrad?

Irony out of place. Obviously, the situation is different: I mean that just as outdoor shooting is in this game almost always obstructed by trees, in cities it is because of buildings. But I understand that bombing of cities was done by bombers; fighter-bombers engaged targets in relatively clear areas (e.g. airports). On the other hand, if the latter had been given the task of hitting a tank leaning against a wall in a narrow alley in the midst of tall buildings, I don't see how they could have done it!

9 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Well vehicles tend to take cover among the trees if they see enemy aircraft coming. That's just the way it was in WW2, and its the way it is in IL2.

Of course! But can't be always and everywhere trees where to hide! OTOH, no brass send his men to try hitting a target that can't be hit (well, sometimes happened, but can't be the rule!)!

9 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

That being said, although all woods on the Stalingrad map are historically correct as far as I can tell, I do find that too many roads are lined with trees. For instance, there's a couple of photographs from August 1942 that I've been able to pinpoint. On the photographs there's not a tree in sight, but in-game there are several tree-lined roads rather close by....

I'm glad that someone share my findings; I too gave a glance simply to Pitomnik on Google Maps as it is now, and easily found roads without trees.

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SharpeXB
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, greybeard_52 said:

Obviously, the situation is different: I mean that just as outdoor shooting is in this game almost always obstructed by trees, in cities it is because of buildings.

No kidding. There were trees and buildings in Russia WWII. Your point is? Maybe learn how not to fly into them...

7 hours ago, greybeard_52 said:

if the latter had been given the task of hitting a tank leaning against a wall in a narrow alley in the midst of tall buildings, I don't see how they could have done it!

Perhaps they didn’t. Cover and concealment are effective defenses against air attack and any rational enemy would use that. Unlike today with precision guided weapons, aerial bombing and strafing wasn’t 100% accurate in WWII. You can’t expect to hit every target. 

7 hours ago, greybeard_52 said:

no brass send his men to try hitting a target that can't be hit

Are you kidding? Remember this is WWII not the Gulf War. The vast majority of WWII bombs missed their targets by miles. Every attack in the war involved the “brass” sending men to attack targets that they likely wouldn’t hit.

What plane are you flying? The only aircraft that could get any reasonable accuracy bombing ground targets in WWII was a dive bomber ie Stuka. 

Edited by SharpeXB
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kendo

Next time before flying a ground attack mission, contact the devs and let them know the map and location of the target.

 

Maybe they could arrange to have all the trees moved 50 metres to the left so that you can have a clean run in.

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Props
Posted (edited)

Yeah the steppe of Russia was pretty barren in spots, but western Europe wasn't. You have to learn to deal with it. WW2 history is full of pilots who met their end , or at least the end of their aircraft, due to hitting trees while strafing and low level bombing. Many came home with branches and leaves embedded in the AC. For a full real sim this is to be expected and I've snagged a few myself! And many hit telephone wires and high tension wires as well which is something we don't have to deal with in this sim. 

 

When there's a tree-lined road I approach and strafe head-on to the convoy, right down the center of the road and have found that I can usually pull out below treetop level with room to spare (usually;-) and it's possible to hit more than one target during the pass. Or I wait and orbit till the vehicles are entering an open area with no obstacles to make a high side attack. I'm usually more worried about the damn AA trucks and half-tracks than the trees! They're always my first target so sometimes I have to orbit till they start moving again when they are the most vulnerable, then worry about the trees as I make my approach and my exit path. When attacking artillery I plan my approach and exit based on the cleanest route that allows for a good recovery from my dive without the trees getting in my way, like using a gap in the tree line after the target. 

 

Oops, a quick edit I should include - My dive approach angle is generally about 30 degrees, after a chandelle to lower my speed and subsequent speed buildup, at low power and I usually shoot in time to avoid recovering below tree height. Higher speeds will require a lot more room during recovery or you'll end up turning your plane into a plow. I spend a lot of time in singleplayer at low level practice familiarizing myself with the visual ques needed to perform well while cutting grass with my prop. I also like to fly under bridges so maybe I'm a little crazy...... 

 

Trees are normal so practice makes perfect.  

Edited by Props
Left out relevant notes
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SharpeXB
Posted (edited)

So to sum up this topic...

- You screwed up and hit the trees

- Blame the developer for putting trees in front of your plane 😜

Edited by SharpeXB
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BraveSirRobin

Maybe the devs should have consulted with someone who lives in Russia before they produced the Stalingrad map.

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Dakpilot

Putting trees alongside every road is (and I am guessing here) a leftover from map making tech from RoF. Editing manually the (many?) thousands of trees on certain roads in BoS map would have been a cost/time/reward decision that was made.

Obviously there were many roads on Russian steppe that were not tree lined. 

 

If there were no roadside trees there would be other complaints 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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216th_Cat
Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2021 at 11:48 PM, SharpeXB said:

You just have to complain about everything huh?

 

 

Ah, so you've noticed that too. I put him on the Ignore list earlier. Now I just have stop being so curious about what my Ignored members are saying!

Edited by 216th_Cat
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  • 3 weeks later...
Avimimus

Seriously though, having a probability function that allowed a some rounds to penetrate through foliage would be realistic. It is frustrating to fire a burst of 20mm ammunition and watch every single round detonate with none cutting their way through the leaves.

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