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Planes you love to hate (do not take offence in this thread).


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3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

That's not really true. The P-51 was built for the Brits who wanted a fighter...like...yesterday. There wasn't any special consideration concerning range at all.

 

Range was built into the aircraft by ugrading it with a 85gal fuselage tank and two shackles that could each take a 108gal tank.

That actually happened during production of the P-51B, which was after mating the airframe with the new engine to give it a duckton of improved high altitude performance.

It also happened after re-arming the aircraft one or two times (and another redsesign of it's armament was in the pipes).

 

The P-51 was a capable airframe right from the beginning - but that's more a testament to the farsighted design of NAA, rather than out of any specification. The P-51B was almost killed by politics within the USAAF.

 

Indeed, people tend to forget the P51 was a British order and long range was not a design consideration.  The British actually wanted North American to build P40s for them and NA said, we can design and build you a better fighter in the time it will take us to tool up for P-40 production.  The rest as they say, is history.

 

The USAAF was interested in this new fighter but had to purchase it as an attack aircraft.

 

Range of the first A36 Apache 550 miles

Mustang Ia range ~650 miles from memory.

Fw190A range was ~500

Edited by ICDP
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And let's not forget that the Mustang I with the Allison V 1710 was still a very fast aircraft inside the engine's altitude limits.  As I recall it was the fastest aircraft at 15K ft. and below in Europe when introduced.  The RAF used it to good effect.

 

0A72zf.jpg

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10 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

And let's not forget that the Mustang I with the Allison V 1710 was still a very fast aircraft inside the engine's altitude limits.  As I recall it was the fastest aircraft at 15K ft. and below in Europe when introduced.  The RAF used it to good effect.

 

0A72zf.jpg

 

For me the early Allison engined Mustangs were the prettiest.  The P51B and C were still OK looking but the D just looks meh.

 

I tend to prefer the earlier war models on most aicraft though there are exceptions, like the later Yaks or the Tempest.

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Posted (edited)

For me it is the Spit XiV. I love the V and IX against planes to 1944 and the Tempest for late war. The XiV feels unstable and seems to bleed energy in climbing turns. It doesn't "float" like the IX does in climbing turns which makes that tactic null and void. It is also harder to get guns on target online because it doesn't really turn much better than the German competition. I'm talking of the standard wing version without machine guns and just cannons. I also find I have an easier time climbing in the Mk IX at combat settings. Diving is faster but I have less precise control. The plane also requires much more trimming. It really doesn't feel like a Spit and I have a much harder time evading enemies online. I got shot down by a dora in a slow speed, turning dogfight which never happens to me in the IX unless there are two or more. Reminds me of the late 109s. 

 

I'm going to keep trying it, but I went from a master in the Mk IX to a poor pilot in the Mk XiV.

On 5/3/2021 at 8:00 PM, =621=Samikatz said:

One thing the American fighters almost always had over their foes is the ability to multirole with little issue. A P-51 can fight on level footing with the best Luftwaffe props, and then the next day you can bolt racks onto it and carry an impressive amount of ordnance much further than a 109 could ever fly. While that doesn't have much respect in these airquake comparisons, it has a lot of value in winning battles. Same with the 47, 38, F6F, F4U, etc

Utility does matter for sure.

Edited by =AW=drewm3i-VR
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2 hours ago, =AW=drewm3i-VR said:

For me it is the Spit XiV. I love the V and IX against planes to 1944 and the Tempest for late war. The XiV feels unstable and seems to bleed energy in climbing turns. It doesn't "float" like the IX does in climbing turns which makes that tactic null and void. It is also harder to get guns on target online because it doesn't really turn much better than the German competition. I'm talking of the standard wing version without machine guns and just cannons. I also find I have an easier time climbing in the Mk IX at combat settings. Diving is faster but I have less precise control. The plane also requires much more trimming. It really doesn't feel like a Spit and I have a much harder time evading enemies online. I got shot down by a dora in a slow speed, turning dogfight which never happens to me in the IX unless there are two or more. Reminds me of the late 109s.

 

I can't speak for online combat yet, but from what you say, the XIV sounds pretty accurate to how it's been described in real life; that is, the trimming part and the 'really doesn't feel like a Spit' part specifically. Those are pretty much the exact words of Johnnie Johnson, British ace.

 

I actually like the fact that it doesn't feel like a Spitfire. But of course it's a matter of preference, and I can see why everyone wouldn't like the differences. To me, the XIV feels like a 109, I agree--but a slightly more agile one. Then again, as I said, I haven't been online with it yet.

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8 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

I can't speak for online combat yet, but from what you say, the XIV sounds pretty accurate to how it's been described in real life; that is, the trimming part and the 'really doesn't feel like a Spit' part specifically. Those are pretty much the exact words of Johnnie Johnson, British ace.

 

I actually like the fact that it doesn't feel like a Spitfire. But of course it's a matter of preference, and I can see why everyone wouldn't like the differences. To me, the XIV feels like a 109, I agree--but a slightly more agile one. Then again, as I said, I haven't been online with it yet.

 

Ironically we have a thread on the FM sub forum questioning the fact the XIV does not behave like the other spitfires.  We have others posting it feels more stable and yet others saying it is less stable.  I find it a bit mushier and slower to react on the elevators, as I would expect.  But haven't flown it enough to have any other comparisons.

 

Schrodingers Spitfire, it's both a Spitfire and not a Spitfire until you open it up and get inside and find out the actual state. 😄

 

I particularly found this quote from the following article pertinent.

 

The majority of pilots, as they climb out of their first XIV after a long experience of the earlier marks, are inclined to say ‘Nice, fast, handleable flying machine – but it ain’t a Spitfire no more…’

 

https://airscapemag.com/2016/11/28/sptifire_xiv/

 

Edited by ICDP
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Interestingly, I do better in the XIV in the sim than I ever did in the Vb or the IXe.

 

Why you may ask?

 

Well, I've always felt that the two earlier Spitfires are at a serious speed/power deficit when compared to their opponents in the sim.  The XIV feels like a front line fighter, the older versions feel kinda like the P40 in the sim to me.  An older, slower, model with good handling that is forced to carry on while the chaps are waiting impatiently for a proper replacement for their old mounts.

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8 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Well, I've always felt that the two earlier Spitfires are at a serious speed/power deficit when compared to their opponents in the sim.  The XIV feels like a front line fighter, the older versions feel kinda like the P40 in the sim to me. 

 

The Spit V feels that way, especially because it is used in the timeframe of Kuban. However, the IX isn't P-40 level!

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