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Rise of Flight or Wings Over Flanders Field Beyond Heaven & Hell II?


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Salute!  I purchased Flying Circus Volume 1 a few months ago during a sale and have been playing it extensively using PWCG.  FC has its qualities, like the visual modeling of the planes, but also has drawbacks, like the current DM, that many have noted.  So what would you recommend (and why) for a better single player World War One flight sim experience: RoF + PWCG or the just-released WOFF BH&H II?  Like all sims those two also have their advantages and disadvantages, but overall each might be better for a single player than FC.  The current 75% off sale on RoF content makes that sim look tempting.  Thanks for any thoughts.

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I think BH&HII is very good for solitaire play.

RoF is cheap but not supported anymore, but a good reason to buy it if you love two-seaters are the recon and arty spotting missions you do not have anywhere else

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Hard to answer this as I am afraid some people get their backs up regardless. I have all three. I play single player only. My take, in brief -

 

FC simulates being in a plane quite nicely. BH&H II simulates being in a war.

FC enemy - far easier to shoot down. BH&H II - far more difficult.

BH&H II models AI items that FC doesn't even touch - it evaluates situation, allies + enemies, plane damage, enfolding situation, morale, etc -- all influence it's choices to make it far more "human like" in the sense of flying an actual WWI mission and actually wanting to survive it or help its squad. And it is quite challenging too.

Dynamic campaign + planeset (80+ flyable) + atmosphere + sound + immersion + AI -- clear winner here, imho : BH&H II.

FC - nice terrain and nice modeling for sure - flight characteristics are decent. You feel like you are in the plane. It is nice in this regard.

ROF -- uggh, can't do it. Its AI just eliminates it for me - clearly the worst of the 3.

 

Buy both if you can (FC & BH&H II --one for flying a crate, the other for experiencing the war)

Edited by Redwo1f
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1 hour ago, jeanba said:

RoF is cheap but not supported anymore, but a good reason to buy it if you love two-seaters are the recon and arty spotting missions you do not have anywhere else

Also if you like flying the Felixstowe F2A, Brandenburg W.12, Gotha G.V, Halberstadt CL. II, Hanriots, Fokker D.VIII, Pfalz D.XII, Sopwith Dolphin, Handley Page, and Sikorsky aircraft, plus the Eastern Front (Tarnopol) map.

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Hello.

 ROF personally seems better to me in many ways.  The graphics, the flight model, the damage model, the engine management, the visual effects, etc, are impressive, even today.  It is regrettable that they abandoned him and that 777 did not take interest in the SP.  The AI is very bad, although there is some mod that improves it.  Vons has posted the latest in Combatace.

 BH & HII, has undoubtedly the best generator of missions and campaigns, great soundtrack, great atmosphere of war and a very good AI.  But other than that it is a mediocre game.  The cockpits are not as good as ROF's, it doesn't have any engine management and the flight model is very poor.  The visuals are very artificial and mediocre, they can't be compared to ROF's.

 BH & HII is not very tunable and although it is presented as a new game - and charges a lot for it - it is nothing more than the old updated CFS 3.

 Greetings.

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@dresamAsam71.

Do you own BHaHII? Have you flown it?

 

To OP, Redwolf's assement is spot on for WOFF in general. I do not own WOFF BHaHII yet(I will purchase it soon) but do own WOFFUE & PE(4 years?). I own FC & FCII(eagerly waiting for Neup 28, Bwaaaaa, put, put, put, put! :) and everything in ROF & all mods and 8+ years experience with ROF. I would write what Redwolf did if I answered. If you really are hooked on WWI piloting and war experience, then get all three and enjoy each for its' pluses. None of the three are the perfect WWI flight sim but my ranking is

1. WOFF UE OR PE OR BHaHII.

2. FC or ROF

Each has there special place in my simming enjoyment experience, and each has there place on my m.2 SSD.😁

 

S!Blade<><

Edited by BladeMeister
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1 hour ago, dresamAsam71 said:

 ROF personally seems better to me in many ways.  [...]  It is regrettable that they abandoned him [...]

 BH & HII [...] although it is presented as a new game [...] it is nothing more than the old updated CFS 3.

 

This explains why we have FC today, and fortunately so. It's in the present, and has a future.

 

P.S.: I bought WOFF BH&H II just a couple of days ago. It feels like a very old game in many respects, but I'm still hoping it will have its charms.

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10 hours ago, dresamAsam71 said:

he AI is very bad, although there is some mod that improves it.  Vons has posted the latest in Combatace.

Excellent news, I'll try this mod asap. If it deliver what claims it does, then the main ROF problem would be miraculously solved (!?!). Time to go back to ROF? By the way, why did he publish the news at Combatace and not at the official ROF forum? If it wasn't for your post here it would have gone unseen & I wouldn't be aware of this potentially game-changing mod.

Thanks!

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Hello.

 The Vons mod improves the behavior of the AI somewhat, but it does not work miracles, it has not been possible to modify much.  I wish 777 would give up some codes to be able to modify more things.

 By the way, there has been no talk about the other WWI simulator that we have, First eagles 2. Although the stock version is very basic, it has the peculiarity that it is open source and there are moders that have improved it significantly.  The AI is good, the FM better than WOFF and it is the game that has more war scenarios and airplanes.  In combat there is a lot of information.

 Greetings.

 

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You keep passing comments on all these games... can you confirm that you own them all and have played them extensively, or are you just making comments because you have seen you tube footage and screenshots.

 

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Indeed, First Eagles 2 (also owned) has merits as well. The major drawback of it  is that is screams of needing a giant mod package (like Il2-1946 has done (many times, lol), but there isn't one (due to splitting (and fighting(?)) of several key modders. Anyway, it needs mods - needs them quite badly, so be prepared for a huge investment in time to do that all individually (aircraft, terrain, FM's, campaigns, vehicles, etc). That being said, it is great when modded in many departments.

 

AI is actually quite decent. I'd put it behind WOFF but definitely ahead of both FC and ROF. Models are ...okay. Cockpits are the weakest in general of all 4 now being compared. DM - hard to say, but - to really simplify things, the "time-to-kill" fits exactly in the middle between FC (easy) and WOFF (hard) - and in that sense, honestly feels the best in this regard (again, overly simplified). Feeling of flight is decent (though perhaps a bit floaty). Tons of aircraft - even more than WOFF (when modded) - and I think numerically more than even ROF (?). Terrain not great - though there are mods -- but weak here. Dynamic campaign isn't wonderful - but serviceable I guess (it really isn't truly dynamic but like all Thirdwire/EAW (same guy) it is ultimately a mission creator that tries to tie things together - but it does squad/roster tracking (be it primitive) so it's dynamic campaign is more like a mission creator +  -- and fits at the bottom of the list here compared to WOFF (top) to ROF & FC (*when adding PWCG). Sound is...well, more on the meh side of things.

 

I'd probably rank FE2 somewhere in the middle overall when all is said and done. 🙂

 

But indeed, all these titles all have their pro's and con's - it is just a matter of what one is looking for the most and what one values the most - and another person can't dictate that for you. only offer their own experiences. If I could have only one, well there is a clear winner for me personally, but luckily I can have more than one and enjoy others too for what they offer.

 

Happy Flying.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Redwo1f said:

 

But indeed, all these titles all have their pro's and con's - it is just a matter of what one is looking for the most and what one values the most - and another person can't dictate that for you. only offer their own experiences. If I could have only one, well there is a clear winner for me personally, but luckily I can have more than one and enjoy others too for what they offer.

 

Happy Flying.

Truer words have never been said.  It all comes down to personal taste, choice, and preferences.   I appreciate everyone's comments and thoughts.  Considering the relative lack of combat flight simulations overall in 2021, we're fortunate to have choices in World War One sims.  Swoose

Edited by No105_Swoose
Deleted duplicate statement.
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WOFF Series (BHaHII is the newest item):  Overall a good game. It's single player only and you need solid knowledge of how to tweak your computer and the game to squeeze the most out of the FPS and prevent stuttering. The old CFS3 foundation does not mix well with modern computers.

  • Single player game. No MP. Excellent dynamic campaign.
  • Excellent atmosphere, captures the horror of the western front.
  • Excellent squadron dynamics and variety of missions.
  • Wide variety of aircraft and aircraft variations.
  • Fair damage modeling; dated flight characteristics
  • Excellent AI
  • Need to be adept at tuning the game and your computer to run it well.
  • Even with tuning, may still have micro-stuttering and some glitches.
  • Graphics are not bad, but starting to look a bit dated as well.
  • Still supported by dev team.
  • Aircraft balance is pretty good.

ROF: Also a good game. Multiplayer is a factor here, but the online player base is small now. Good feeling of flight and being in the plane. Nice variety of aircraft, and they seem to balance each other well enough.

  • Single player and MP. MP action pretty limited at this point.
  • Single player dynamic campaign is not as strong or integrated as WOFF.
  • Mediocre AI, even with mod upgrade.
  • Pretty good flight and damage models overall.
  • Graphics are OK stock, but can be really nice with mods.
  • Aircraft balancing is pretty good.
  • Variety of planes is good. Not as extensive as WOFF, but better than FC
  • Developer support has dried up, but still not fully open for modders to do their thing either.
  • Worth looking into community mods for graphics, AI, and a few other things.
  • Stock front is sterile and doesn't set you in the war very well.
  • Runs well on a modern gaming computer.
  • Basic tech knowledge of settings will work if you have a decent computer.

FC: A more modern game with VR support. Limited plane set and limited map. Multiplayer community more active. Single player is somewhat limited still. Sensation of flight is good, but some flight models feel "off" when compared to opposing aircraft. Damage model hampers the game at the present time.

  • Has single player and MP. MP action is more active here. If MP is a "must" then look in this direction.
  • AI is OK - better than stock ROF but not as good as WOFF.
  • Good feeling of flight. Front is a little more active than ROF.
  • Plane set is being expanded, but for now is limited.
  • Map is limited to one for now, but being expanded.
  • If VR is a "must", then this is the place to go.
  • Damage model is an issue both in terms of absolute damage to planes as well as balancing damage of plane vs plane.
  • Still being developed, which is good.
  • Runs well on a modern gaming computer.
  • Basic tech knowledge of settings will work if you have a decent computer

 

I'd say buy all three because it's WW1 and, frankly, we don't have many games to choose from. Is the glass half-empty or half-full? Both. We have several games to choose from, but we're in purgatory in the sense that no single game has been able to capture both SP and MP in a manner that it brings the WW1 flight community together. You end up shifting between games depending on if you want to fly a SP campaign, MP mission, etc. No silver bullet, I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

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Think its very simple:

  • FC: MP and VR, but it does not have any immersion, pure a flightgame but great if only fly in Quick missions.  Best plane graphics but terrain and clouds are still at 2012 level. 
  • RoF: try the limited “Free to play” and see if you like it. Be aware not much going on in mp and no VR. 
  • WoFF PE, Do not get you fooled by the old game engine, think it’s essential for every WW1 simulator fan, historical right, you are an real WW1 pilot.  No mp & no VR, pure SP. 

 

The last version I did play was WoFF-UE and for RoF I do have all the DLCs, not playing anymore because the lack of VR support. But I can tell you, as soon WoFF is going to introduce VR I’m deleting that sterile FC and going for the much better immersion in WoFF-VR. 

Edited by Dutch2
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On 4/14/2021 at 10:48 AM, Redwo1f said:

Indeed, First Eagles 2 (also owned) has merits as well. The major drawback of it  is that is screams of needing a giant mod package (like Il2-1946 has done (many times, lol), but there isn't one (due to splitting (and fighting(?)) of several key modders.

 

I actually thought of that as being its major asset. Honestly, my biggest issue with it is that the flight-model handles side-slip terribly. This was excusable in the SFP1/WOx series of jet simulators... but in a WWI sim a lot of the 1915-1916 aircraft can be made to side-slip about as fast as they can go forward!! That kind-of ruined a lot of the fun for me.

 

Very out of date, and difficult to get stable - but FS-WWI has a lot of neat features and aircraft: FS-WWI Plane Pack Info (fsww1.com) I fell in love with the Bristol Boxkite when flying it... and it also has flyable airships and tanks... and quite a few early war aircraft.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping the continued AI improvements will find their way into FC... along with the rest of the RoF aircraft... and maybe that they'll eventually provide more engine variants, an couple of early war two-seaters (to give the early-war scouts something to hunt)... if it gets really profitable they might even add modelling of individual wires and spars (which, along with improved aircrew wounding, is what seems to be missing - and I don't think any other sim does that anyway).

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On 4/15/2021 at 4:01 AM, Dutch2 said:

Think its very simple:

  • FC: MP and VR, but it does not have any immersion, pure a flightgame but great if only fly in Quick missions.  Best plane graphics but terrain and clouds are still at 2012 level. 
  • RoF: try the limited “Free to play” and see if you like it. Be aware not much going on in mp and no VR. 
  • WoFF PE, Do not get you fooled by the old game engine, think it’s essential for every WW1 simulator fan, historical right, you are an real WW1 pilot.  No mp & no VR, pure SP. 

 

The last version I did play was WoFF-UE and for RoF I do have all the DLCs, not playing anymore because the lack of VR support. But I can tell you, as soon WoFF is going to introduce VR I’m deleting that sterile FC and going for the much better immersion in WoFF-VR. 

 

Is VR on their roadmap?

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On 4/16/2021 at 5:07 PM, =420=Syphen said:

 

Is VR on their roadmap?

I did have an discussion about VR with Pol at Simhq, and his answer was “ no future plans for VR”  Think its a pity, because they could implement VorpX for an DX9 game like WoFF. Maybe @AnKor can clarify more about VR and his DX9 shaders in WoFF.  

Edited by Dutch2
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I don't have VR, so that is not a barrier to me. Flight still feels a bit dated, but the dynamic shaking and instability in the cockpit, goggles effects, etc. add a lot over the previous couple of iterations. The front is very much alive and quite a deadly place. The atmosphere and feeling of being in the First World War is very much an achievement for the game. It would be interesting to see what the team could do with a more modern game engine and perhaps what a multiplayer co-op campaign might look like with such an active front.

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