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Realistic M2 .50 Dispersion and (sort of) AI Gunnery fix


ACG_Cass

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ACG_Cass

So I originally put this in the suggestions thread a while ago and another one in the FM/AI Discussion section. It doesn't appear that the M2 .50 gun dispersion is correct. This further exacerbates the issues with the weapon as you need excellent gunnery to use them effectively, even when the platform was specifically designed to mean gunnery was less important. Also the difference between a 6 and 8 gun configuration is barely noticeable. 

 

 

I've created a mod that addresses this and increases the gun dispersion to what appears to be more realistic levels. I've also included an additional version with much more additional spread that give you an almost "Box Convergence" like pattern (this by proxy helps with the AI's iffy gunnery with wing mounted weapons and sees them landing much more hits on planes).

 

Original:

image.png.7f7dc848bccb0b3ffb487767f8139c27.png

 

Modded:

image.png.9a49d490b8f95c80671dad30f47e3462.png
 

 

 

Although a marginal increase, this has a significant impact when diving on an enemy, shooting at closer ranges, or anything that involves high deflection. You also see a much more significant difference between the 6 and 8 gun platforms of the P51 and P47. 

 

Even with my shoddy gunnery I'm able to set a He111 on fire almost every time (obviously possible without the mod but once you get in close you have to be really accurate to ensure your rounds aren't going past the target):

 

 

This was achieved by modifying the mg_usa_m2-50.txt file and simply increasing the the BulletDispersionAngleData from 0.0 to 0.1 (0.3 for the Box Convergence version). 0.6 is the maximum dispersion when the gun has overheated, which I have left unchanged. 

 

image.png.32783298bdaf909c7e770ab95e83161c.png

 

This will affect all .50 caliber guns within the game (A20 rear gun and Sherman MG), but not significantly enough to affect be noticeable for them. It also helps AAA M2 emplacements be slightly more effective on Medium and less snipery on High. 

 

Installation is very simple, just extract the World Objects folder into "data/LuaScripts" and then check "Mods on/enabled" in the settings or start up screen. 

 

Realistic Dispersion.zip

 

Box Convergence Dispersion.zip

 

Any questions or issues, let me know. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ACG_Cass
grammer
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Dirtbag_Jim

Thanks for sharing this, this is great! Always hoped there'd be a fix for the bullet dispersion.

 

EDIT: I edited the files for all the other MG's in game in case anyone wants them. I figured any other wing mounted armaments (e.g. .303's on the Hurricane), as well as defensive armaments (e.g. on bombers, etc) would benefit from this mod as well.

 

 

_________________________________________________

 

EDIT 2: To avoid confusion and ease installation, I have updated my zip to include ACG_Cass's original US M2 50 Cal mod. The zip now contains files for ALL MG's in the game, excluding Cannons. This affects (WW2) 30 cals and 50 cals from ALL nations, in both offensive armament and defensive armaments. All MG's have had their dispersion values edited in the same way Cass did for US M2 50 cals in the post above. My zip contains files only for Realistic Dispersion, not Box Dispersion (refer to Cass's post above for the differences between the two).

 

INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS: The zip has been structured for JGSME, simply drag and drop the folder named "Realistic Weapons Dispersion Mod" from the zip directly into your MODs folder in the IL-2 Directory, and enable in JGSME.

 

For those looking to modify the dispersion values on only US M2 50 Cals, please refer to the original post by @ACG_Cass.

All credit goes to Cass for originally coming up with the idea of modifying the dispersion value of the 50 cal, and his efforts in testing, researching and reporting the issue to the dev's. It's much appreciated.

Realistic Weapons Dispersion Mod.zip

Edited by Dirtbag_Jim
updated zip file and clarified contents of the zip
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HawkerMkIII_

Nice mod, do you have any information of if in real life a plane with, say 4x 20mm cannons had the same effect of ''box convergence''? 

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ACG_Cass

They may have had the guns at different ranges with 4 guns. I doubt it would have been overly done though. You need more guns to ensure a large box area still hasn't decent levels of concentration in it. 

 

What we have in sim is perfect point convergence, so every single gun is aiming at the exact same pixel in the sky. So it exacerbates the issue even more. 

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QB.Creep

Good lord, that's a problem. Totally makes sense why it's feast or famine with the .50s.

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Mtnbiker1998

I really like this mod. Gives focused bursts of .50 quite a bit more lethality but doesn't give each individual bullet deadly HE powers like the other weapons mod does. Also makes them more effective at different ranges much like the real box convergences. And as an added bonus, it doesnt interfere with the Multicolor tracers mod!

 

I did find I liked the "realistic" version quite a bit more than the "box" version, I found the box made it a little *too* spread out to still be effective, but that may have been partially due to me using a 230m convergence? is there a particular set you recommend as the creator?

 

I'll be flying with this in singleplayer and I think I'll convince the rest of my buddies to get this setup for our Dogfight/coop sessions.

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ACG_Cass
12 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

I did find I liked the "realistic" version quite a bit more than the "box" version, I found the box made it a little *too* spread out to still be effective, but that may have been partially due to me using a 230m convergence? is there a particular set you recommend as the creator?

 

I think it's the better option, but thought I'd add the other one in case someone has a preference for it as it helped with the AI Gunnery. 

 

In terms of convergence, the additional dispersion actually gives you more freedom to go with what you prefer. 200-250m is usually the best area but if you want some more elevation for deflection shots, 300-400m still works fine. I'd always recommend testing out a few settings in Quick Mission to see what you prefer. 

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Oyster_KAI

Awesome MOD!!
Although it's just a MOD, it's really great!!
Has anyone compared DCS .50 cal also has the correct dispersion? 

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Eisenfaustus

Cool mod and definitely more realistic - all guns in BoX are far too precise anyway. I still remember my surprise at the dispersion when I fired an autocannon and coaxial MG for the first time at the shooting range after having trained on a simulator with laser like accuracy ^^

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ACG_Cass

May need to buff it out even more to get it realistic, will take a look later today:

 

 

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Denum

Man I must say that looks just about perfect. Nice big burst. Plenty of damage. Wasn't just a quick squirt and I win. 

I really hope the devs consider trying this even temporarily between patches to see if its enough to placate the .50 woes for a while!

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Oyster_KAI

Shooting has become much easier now, and shooting at close range won't waste ammo as before.
I heard that this MOD also helps improve the accuracy of AI shooting machine guns.
Will it also affect AAA?
I really don’t hope this will help the AAA, which is as accurate as the aliens, to be more accurate.:hunter:

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I/JG54_chuishan

Good mod Cass!

 

As I understand this is only a stop-gap measure for the game does not allow separate alteration of horizontal and vertical convergence. Historically, according to AAF Manual 200-1 Manual for Fighter Gun Harmonization, each pair of .50 cal guns on the aircraft had separate settings for horizontal and vertical convergence. Take a P-51D for example, Left No. 3 and Right No. 3(hereinafter L3 & R3)guns are set to fire higher than the pilot's sight line, L1 & R1 guns are set to fire lower the sight line, while L2 & R2 guns are set to fire exactly on the sight line. Each pair of guns also has different horizontal convergence from 1000ft to 1200ft.

 

With this arrangement, together with the dispersion coming with each individual gun, forms a 'dispersion core' at around 1000ft to 1200ft. Simply expand the dispersion of each individual gun is, therefore, only part of the story. However, I believe it will do its job considering current condition we have with this game:) :hunter:

 

1311155315_QQ20210409194736.thumb.png.2da57ae5000b15dde06eba4873c5e398.png

 

2025877154_QQ20210409194729.thumb.png.0b1fb3508aa45ac01d6570fcbec52a6d.png

 

158356350_QQ20210409194847.png.45b53a6c4257c4f97e809d13d63a47be.png

Edited by I/JG54_chuishan
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jollyjack

call me confused? tried the game with the BoX Convergence Dispersion included mg_usa_m2-50.txt file, P51, did not seem to work ...

Edited by jollyjack
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ACG_Cass
On 4/5/2021 at 1:50 PM, Dirtbag_Jim said:

Thanks for sharing this, this is great! Always hoped there'd be a fix for the bullet dispersion.

 

 

EDIT: I edited the files for all the other MG's in game in case anyone wants them, figured any other wing mounted armaments (e.g. .303's on the Hurricane), as well as defensive armaments (e.g. on bombers, etc) would benefit from this mod as well.

Weapons Dispersion Mod.zip 12.6 kB · 35 downloads

Edited Monday at 02:11 PM by Dirtbag_Jim

 

@jollyjack

Did you download from this comment? This was created by another user for 30 cals. 

 

The ones in the original post are both for .50s.

On 4/9/2021 at 12:49 PM, I/JG54_chuishan said:

Good mod Cass!

 

As I understand this is only a stop-gap measure for the game does not allow separate alteration of horizontal and vertical convergence. Historically, according to AAF Manual 200-1 Manual for Fighter Gun Harmonization, each pair of .50 cal guns on the aircraft had separate settings for horizontal and vertical convergence. Take a P-51D for example, Left No. 3 and Right No. 3(hereinafter L3 & R3)guns are set to fire higher than the pilot's sight line, L1 & R1 guns are set to fire lower the sight line, while L2 & R2 guns are set to fire exactly on the sight line. Each pair of guns also has different horizontal convergence from 1000ft to 1200ft.

 

With this arrangement, together with the dispersion coming with each individual gun, forms a 'dispersion core' at around 1000ft to 1200ft. Simply expand the dispersion of each individual gun is, therefore, only part of the story. However, I believe it will do its job considering current condition we have with this game:) 

 

Completely agree, although point convergence was used it was as pointy as we have. I actually originally set out to try and create a more complex harmonization but you don't seem to be able to edit the plane files without the game crashing. 

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jollyjack

you're right, a was trying another mod (weapons etc from above) just installed it later after yours) from a post below, i'll try it again ...

PS i use JGSME for installing, do you want the compiled zip files?

 

Edited by jollyjack
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ACG_Cass

@jollyjackyou'll need to unzip them. 

 

If you're using JGSME you'll have to create a new folder structure. Something like "Dispersion Mod/data/luascripts" and then put the unzipped world objects in there. 

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jollyjack
Just now, ACG_Cass said:

@jollyjackyou'll need to unzip them. 

 

If you're using JGSME you'll have to create a new folder structure. Something like "Dispersion Mod/data/luascripts" and then put the unzipped world objects in there. 

i did that, cheched it too, and both installed side by side OK.

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Dirtbag_Jim
2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

you're right, a was trying another mod (weapons etc from above) just installed it later after yours) from a post below, i'll try it again ...

PS i use JGSME for installing, do you want the compiled zip files?

 

 

That's my bad, so sorry bout any confusion I may have caused! I should have been more clear in my post.

My zip was structured for JGSME, and had the files for all MG's (all 30 cals, as well as German, Italian & Soviet 50's), only excluding cannon's and the US 50 cal from @ACG_Cass's original mod.

Will edit my comment to clarify for anyone in the future

Edited by Dirtbag_Jim
grammar
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Dirtbag Jim, I see your new edited post above. Thanks for the JSGME setup for this mod. But unless I'm missing something where is the download link?

Sorry , I see it now. I hadn't refreshed the page since your recent post and it didn't show up yet. Thanks again.

Sorry, I had to refresh the page and now I see it. Thanks again for this.

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jollyjack

Well, i tried the brownings with a hurri, and .50 with a P51. Did not notice any improvement, even seems easier with out the mod. Is that normal?

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Avimimus
54 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Well, i tried the brownings with a hurri, and .50 with a P51. Did not notice any improvement, even seems easier with out the mod. Is that normal?

 

Maybe you were firing at convergence... if you are used to aiming well and firing at the right distance you'd have all of your bullets hitting the same area (and devastating the target).

 

The benefit of the higher dispersion is that bullets aren't actually coming together at the right range - they are ending up more spread out - so overall the firepower is less in any one spot, but the firepower is in a larger number of spots. More of a shot-gun effect (good for deflection shooting or if you aren't that good at judging range).

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Legioneod

One of the reasons I hope they add other dispersion patterns to the game one day. I personally do not like point convergence, I'd much prefer if they had a box/shotgun style convergence option in the mod selection of the aircraft.

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jollyjack
10 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

Maybe you were firing at convergence... if you are used to aiming well and firing at the right distance you'd have all of your bullets hitting the same area (and devastating the target).

 

The benefit of the higher dispersion is that bullets aren't actually coming together at the right range - they are ending up more spread out - so overall the firepower is less in any one spot, but the firepower is in a larger number of spots. More of a shot-gun effect (good for deflection shooting or if you aren't that good at judging range).

 

LoL, did not think i was that good untill now, thanks Avimus ... the only real gun i ever fired was an airgun in my youth, shooting target cards.

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vonGraf

At the moment I'm testing both mods at the same time; they're using different files. Seems to work well.

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QB.Rails
On 4/15/2021 at 10:17 AM, Oyster_KAI said:

@ACG_Cass Is your mod including weapons Mod? 

 

This mod is just dispersion it isn't using the weapons mod.

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  • 2 weeks later...
nesher666

@ACG_Cass I really like this mod of yours, it is much appreciated!!! 

I tried both convergence versions, but lately I stuck with the box version since it helps you out in a quick and close deflection shooting situation and even the AI seems to be performing a bit better with it, but that may as well be a placebo effect on my end... :biggrin:

Please keep up the good work on this mod, any future fine tunings are welcome! ;)

Edited by nesher666
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  • 1 month later...
Siegfried-Schutz

Could someone tell me how to rewamp the overall damage of M2 guns, because now it is not satisfying me at all.....

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