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Lolrawr

why do i blackout and the enemy whos fkin behind me and is able to pull a lead never blacks out?

im talking about continuous turn, everyfkinbody just pulls leads out of their asses at 800kph while my pilot grasps for air and goes to sleep

 

wheres the logic? doesn't pulling lead require more Gs? am i wrong? wtf is wrong. 

i feel like im losing every g battle

 

whats wrong with the spitfires? and the fws?

u touch the stick on the spit and its instant bed time, with the fw on the other hand...haha whats G?

 

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Spitfire has sensitive elevators, 

 

Chances are you're pulling massive g at the start of the turn and slacking off mid turn because you're blacking out, 

 

Trying lightening up the start of your turn and tightening the turn as you go 

 

 

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JG300_Winterz

What Denum said.

 

Also it's always easier when you are the guy behind.

You dont have to pull Gs as much than your target to get a solution.

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pocketshaver

uh change direction now and then. 

 

Some planes behave a hell of a lot differently then the others  do under load.  Get some solo time and see what the planes do for you and go from there.

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=FSB=HandyNasty
On 4/5/2021 at 6:31 AM, Lolrawr said:

why do i blackout and the enemy whos fkin behind me and is able to pull a lead never blacks out?

im talking about continuous turn, everyfkinbody just pulls leads out of their asses at 800kph while my pilot grasps for air and goes to sleep

 

wheres the logic? doesn't pulling lead require more Gs? am i wrong? wtf is wrong. 

i feel like im losing every g battle

 

The G model as we have in IL2 (I'm a fan of it) means that when you're on the defensive, you need not only evade attacks, but also do it in such way that your pilot builds up as low fatigue as possible. For example : A hard split-S at 400kph makes you an exceedingly hard target for an attacker swooping in from above, loses you a certain amount of altitude or velocity, but keep in mind is that performing such maneuver strains your pilot. Each maneuver has immediate repercussions ( = "am I in position to get shot at now?") and repercussions on longer scale (position, velocity and what is of interest here : pilot fatigue).

 

I've had many instances where I chase a plane that pulls maneuvers frantically to avoid me while I don't maneuver all that hard. He does 'good defensive maneuvers' in the sense that i can't get a shot at him, but 'bad defensive maneuvers' fatigue-wise. When I then decide to commit after a while, my pilot is way more fresh than his, and I can flat turn with my Fw190 for 360+ degrees with a tired spitty.

Conversely, when I get shot down in planes that are supposed to be better turners, 50+% of the time it is because I've been evading prior attacks in such way that I've build up more fatigue than my attacker. In a fight, fatigue is a variable to take into account, just like your and enemy's altitude, velocity, plane and other variables. I'd argue that it is one of the more difficult variables to get a good feeling of. Hence many people (me included) that get frustrated at certain situations "How the hell did he pull so many G's? How could he turn with me?", a very possible answer is : your feeling/estimation of (relative) pilot fatigue was wrong. You could only pull X G's, and thought your opponent could only pull the same amount. But you're mistaken, he can actually pull X+1 G's because he's been pulling smoother maneuvers in the last minute compared to you, and voilà, you're done.

 

 

 

Edited by =FSB=HandyNasty
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On 4/5/2021 at 11:52 AM, Fritz_X said:

Physics.

 

Don't push them too hard.

 

This is a game. Made up from 1's and 0's.

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On 4/5/2021 at 6:31 AM, Lolrawr said:

why do i blackout and the enemy whos fkin behind me and is able to pull a lead never blacks out?

im talking about continuous turn, everyfkinbody just pulls leads out of their asses at 800kph while my pilot grasps for air and goes to sleep

 

wheres the logic? doesn't pulling lead require more Gs? am i wrong? wtf is wrong. 

i feel like im losing every g battle

 

whats wrong with the spitfires? and the fws?

u touch the stick on the spit and its instant bed time, with the fw on the other hand...haha whats G?

 

 

Did you even tried by yourself a continous turn with the same amount of G with both aircraft, to see if it takes way more Gs to black out in the 190 or not?


Spoiler alert: Result is not. 

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9 hours ago, JG300_Faucon said:

 

Did you even tried by yourself a continous turn with the same amount of G with both aircraft, to see if it takes way more Gs to black out in the 190 or not?


Spoiler alert: Result is not. 

Big difference to me...

Tried P-51 and Dora on Kuban map...started shallow spiral turn at 500 kph full power, keeping 4 g's sustained. I got almost 2.5 circles in Mustang and 3+ in Dora...what struck me the most was the time for pilot to get back to fitness (LW clear winner). Even small relaxations on stick helped in Dora considerably more so than in Mustang...in mustang if you run out of stamina it's terminal almost.

 

Try it and be honest.

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Kami_K220
1 hour ago, NIK14 said:

started shallow spiral turn at 500 kph full power, keeping 4 g's sustained

I am interested in having a play around myself as I have heard several complaints on the G-loc settings. How do you know you are maintaining a sustained 4g turn, do you have a mod to show you the data or just holding an a 75 degree AoB? The only issue I have with holding AoB's is that 75 degree 4g is only correct for a sustained level turn and if not accurate and getting up to 80 degrees you are now doing 5g

Edited by Kami_K220
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No mod...looked at g-meter...tried keeping it spot on...so give or take +/-0.1

 

Nothing too scientific about it really...just give it a hoot. FW defo feels way better when it comes to g's. That's my take...and I've said it before...this is a game not science.

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1 minute ago, NIK14 said:

That's my take...and I've said it before...this is a game not science.

 

Yes, of course it's a game, but it's based on well-sourced scientific data. 

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2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, of course it's a game, but it's based on well-sourced scientific data. 

Well I would expect no less, but seemingly 9.81 seems to vary a little depending on which plane you fly.

Atleast that's what it appears like to me.

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Mitthrawnuruodo
16 minutes ago, NIK14 said:

Well I would expect no less, but seemingly 9.81 seems to vary a little depending on which plane you fly.

 

It is intended to vary. The pilot physiology model takes into account backrest angle. Pilots in aircraft with reclined seats benefit slightly from reduced acceleration along the heart-head axis.

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QB.Beno
11 hours ago, NIK14 said:

Big difference to me...

Tried P-51 and Dora on Kuban map...started shallow spiral turn at 500 kph full power, keeping 4 g's sustained. I got almost 2.5 circles in Mustang and 3+ in Dora...what struck me the most was the time for pilot to get back to fitness (LW clear winner). Even small relaxations on stick helped in Dora considerably more so than in Mustang...in mustang if you run out of stamina it's terminal almost.

 

Try it and be honest.

What speed did you begin turn at? What angle of bank, any rudder? Was angle of bank maintained? ( this can allow pilot to reciver) Did you over g then ease into turn ( early g's are not penalised as much kinda) or did you start low g and increase to 4g? Did you fluctuate from 4g? (This will allow pilot to recover) Did you maintain same speed? 4g vs 4g is not an equal turn. There are other factors. I find the better turning planes are dangerous if you don't understand the g-system. Once you do you can still utilise their turn rate in small bursts followed by recovery. Ever done interval training for cycling or running or any endurance sport? It is hardest to sustain long hard efforts and you will be ruined for a long period after a serious effort but if you do shorter hard efforts with a period of recovery you can perform much harder efforts for much longer overall. Would be great if they modelled the ability to improve this overtime. 

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On 4/9/2021 at 10:33 PM, NIK14 said:

Big difference to me...

Tried P-51 and Dora on Kuban map...started shallow spiral turn at 500 kph full power, keeping 4 g's sustained. I got almost 2.5 circles in Mustang and 3+ in Dora...what struck me the most was the time for pilot to get back to fitness (LW clear winner). Even small relaxations on stick helped in Dora considerably more so than in Mustang...in mustang if you run out of stamina it's terminal almost.

 

Try it and be honest.

 

 

I just tried 5G pull with 3 aircrafts: Fw190D9, P51 (with and without G suit) and Tempest. 

With 500km/h entry speed, 1500m high, and descending during the turn, it's easy to keep the speed up and thus the 5G. 

I started the stopwatch while banking to start the turn. I taked cared to take the same time (about 5sec) to reach 5G. Because P51 and especialy Tempest have a more sensitive elevator at this speed. 

 

The G lock occurs at 35sec (it seems the Fw190 has a 1-2sec advantage, which should be normal because of the seat angle), and at 1min for the P51 with g suit. 

Numbers of tests: about 5 per aircrafts, with never more than 2-3secs between the results. 

 

 

Conclusion: No significant advantage for the Fw190. Significant advantage for the P51 with g-suit.

Edited by JG300_Faucon
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7 hours ago, JG300_Faucon said:

 

 

I just tried 5G pull with 3 aircrafts: Fw190D9, P51 (with and without G suit) and Tempest. 

With 500km/h entry speed, 1500m high, and descending during the turn, it's easy to keep the speed up and thus the 5G. 

I started the stopwatch while banking to start the turn. I taked cared to take the same time (about 5sec) to reach 5G. Because P51 and especialy Tempest have a more sensitive elevator at this speed. 

 

The G lock occurs at 35sec (it seems the Fw190 has a 1-2sec advantage, which should be normal because of the seat angle), and at 1min for the P51 with g suit. 

Numbers of tests: about 5 per aircrafts, with never more than 2-3secs between the results. 

 

 

Conclusion: No significant advantage for the Fw190. Significant advantage for the P51 with g-suit.

 

Thanks! That was more or less precisly the way I did my quick testing. I'd buy the 1-2 sec advantage...

But it seems to me the FW 190 has a tighter turn at the same G pull. This is what I am drifting at...that's a very good thing to have don't you think?

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12 hours ago, NIK14 said:

But it seems to me the FW 190 has a tighter turn at the same G pull.

 

It's because you are slower, and it's physically the only reason. 

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Lolrawr

again, i black out and 109 doesnt, he can pull lead funny.

stop saying that the one pulling lead requires less G.

i feel this game is arbitrary, now u get G now u don't, who knows.

 

I test it, and i can barely pull a lead without my weakass pilot dying, while every 109 and 190 just pulls leads out their ass for 30 seconds unintrerupted at 700kph spiraling down. This is pure bs

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[DBS]Browning

This sounds like a case of Resistentialism to me.

You are getting angry at physics that are the same for every pilot. AI included. The physics of g force do not have particular malice for you, however much it might feel like they do.

 

Many factors go into how much g you can pull. Your pilot's tiredness, the speed of g onset, the amount of g etc. All of these are the same for everyone.

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JG300_Winterz
16 hours ago, Lolrawr said:

again, i black out and 109 doesnt, he can pull lead funny.

stop saying that the one pulling lead requires less G.

i feel this game is arbitrary, now u get G now u don't, who knows.

 

I test it, and i can barely pull a lead without my weakass pilot dying, while every 109 and 190 just pulls leads out their ass for 30 seconds unintrerupted at 700kph spiraling down. This is pure bs

 

You never heard about yoyos / lag, pure, lead pursuit / etc?

There are many things the guy chasing you can do to stay behind while taking less Gs.

I think you need to practice and educate yourself on BFM.

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Lolrawr

Well yes ofc theres nothing wrong, just like it was with spoting, everything was fine untill it wasn't and the spotting was updated for better. Did any of you have anything to say about that?

Gforces act the same on everybody, except they don't, i mean you guys said it here.

 

A couple more years will pass, G model will be updated/changed and all of you will clap.

I'll head off and educate myself, at least i don't have a 3 second memory span.

 

All of you missed the point, and no answer was given.

How can somebody follow me, i start turning, he follows, pulls lead, keeps missing, i pull harded, he follows, keeps missing his shots, i pull untill i almost black out and the bandit still has lead and keeps unloading for 2-3 seconds?

No real answer was given, unless you want me to take that 109s have wing slats as a serious answer.

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AndyJWest

Tacview displays in-flight G in playback. If there is verifiable evidence that 'Gforces act the same on everybody, except they don't' it should be possible to use it to show the problem.

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=FSB=HandyNasty
8 minutes ago, Lolrawr said:

All of you missed the point, and no answer was given.

How can somebody follow me, i start turning, he follows, pulls lead, keeps missing, i pull harded, he follows, keeps missing his shots, i pull untill i almost black out and the bandit still has lead and keeps unloading for 2-3 seconds?

No real answer was given, unless you want me to take that 109s have wing slats as a serious answer.

 

You claim that none of the answers currently provided in this thread answer to your original question. I beg to disagree, I think others do as well.

We could keep on going giving explanations, and you could keep on going not believing them, dismissing them or ignoring them and we'd turn circles and go nowhere.

 

So, to go further in a constructive manner, we need evidence of your claims. Currently we have anecdotal evidence, aka, your description of situations. 

Therefore : Can you upload a replay / track of a situation you described in the piece I quoted? An enemy pulling a lead on you while you are blacking out the way you are describing? A situation where you feel the G-model seems like bullshit to you, where some plane manages to pull G's whereas another plane's pilot blackouts in exactly the same maneuver/situation?  Maybe a track of one of your tests showing an unexplained discrepancy between various planes? I'd be happy to look at it and try to analyze it as objectively as possible.

 

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JG300_Winterz
1 hour ago, Lolrawr said:

All of you missed the point, and no answer was given.

No real answer was given

You gotta be kidding

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JG300_Egon

Lolrawr,

 

We got to confess a thing, in fact everyone else got the same G model physics, except you, you got a tougher model applied to your account.

 

It's Jason (Bourne) conspiracy...

 

 

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Lolrawr
1 hour ago, JG300_Egon said:

Lolrawr,

 

We got to confess a thing, in fact everyone else got the same G model physics, except you, you got a tougher model applied to your account.

 

It's Jason (Bourne) conspiracy...

 

 

If that's all you understood, what can i say, i concede to you.

 

I got the same trash responses when i complained about spoting, that i should consult an ophtalmologist, that my screen is broken and that everything is just as it should be.

 

I never said that "MY" pilot is weaker, sometimes things happen that somehow defy the laws of physics. I wish i had a recording of these happenings, but i don't as they don't occur on a regular basis.

 

And no, i don't know what a yoyo is just as you don't know what a continuous turn is.

 

Maybe there is something more, maybe a rare bug? Maybe not.

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PB0_Roll

As andy mentionned a few posts back, if you find a way to reproduce the strange occurrence you met you can try to use tacview (external program, free to use with some limitations) to understand and show others what exactly happens during your fight, ie does the ennemy maintain the same number of Gs as you throughout the pursuit and then more to pull lead, does he relax Gs for a moment then pull lead ? Such a tool is super powerful to help understand what one sometimes cannot with only his own cockpit experience of the event.

 

Does it happen to you with every plane or is it only when flying spitfire ? Do you follow the pre fight G loading warming procedure ? How do you apply it ? Does it happen at first manoeuver or after flying aerobatics for some time ? Is it multiplayer or you versus AI ?

 

People generally show satisfaction over current model, there still may be a thing or two that needs adjustment but you need to substantiate the suspected problem with reviewing material.

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[CPT]Crunch

Because a 109 has superior initial acceleration, maybe a thrust to weight advantage there also, combined with higher drag.  Meaning he can turn tighter inside your circle and keep up with you using slower speeds.  You yourself admitted he's constantly lead turning you in the circle, that is why, tighter circle is less distance, therefore slower speed needed to match you, always equals less sustained G. 

 

Your using the wrong tactics, use your higher speeds and low drag to loosen and expand any circle before it can fully develop and lock you in, out speed him if possible, than break away out of plane.  The only time you want to enter a circle with a 109 is when your in the drivers seat and have all the advantage, but don't slow down, some of the smarter tactical flyers above already said use yo yo's and offsets, never dump your speed advantage, or you'll get cut to pieces by his superior acceleration if he throws you out front using drag and angles.

 

Try fighting in 109's, you'll quickly understand.

 

Simple way to quantify, you are the superior turn fighter above 250 mph IAS, he is below that.  So stay above that at all times, the option to be an idiot is than on him.

 

When you fight vertical, fly egg, but make sure the small end is the top.  The same hard pull upside down takes less G and keeps you fresh, and at the top you've already banked all potential energy for re-application.  Don't do it at the bottom, fighting gravity is a bitch, long loose maximum speed curves setting you up for the next hard pull top of the egg.  Its also the fastest way to switch directions at the top with a little roll still nose up before the pull.  Keep doing that and you'll bank excess energy to 98% of all pursuers, they just don't understand.

Edited by [CPT]Crunch
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sturmkraehe
On 4/8/2021 at 12:40 PM, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

 

The G model as we have in IL2 (I'm a fan of it) means that when you're on the defensive, you need not only evade attacks, but also do it in such way that your pilot builds up as low fatigue as possible. For example : A hard split-S at 400kph makes you an exceedingly hard target for an attacker swooping in from above, loses you a certain amount of altitude or velocity, but keep in mind is that performing such maneuver strains your pilot. Each maneuver has immediate repercussions ( = "am I in position to get shot at now?") and repercussions on longer scale (position, velocity and what is of interest here : pilot fatigue).

 

I've had many instances where I chase a plane that pulls maneuvers frantically to avoid me while I don't maneuver all that hard. He does 'good defensive maneuvers' in the sense that i can't get a shot at him, but 'bad defensive maneuvers' fatigue-wise. When I then decide to commit after a while, my pilot is way more fresh than his, and I can flat turn with my Fw190 for 360+ degrees with a tired spitty.

Conversely, when I get shot down in planes that are supposed to be better turners, 50+% of the time it is because I've been evading prior attacks in such way that I've build up more fatigue than my attacker. In a fight, fatigue is a variable to take into account, just like your and enemy's altitude, velocity, plane and other variables. I'd argue that it is one of the more difficult variables to get a good feeling of. Hence many people (me included) that get frustrated at certain situations "How the hell did he pull so many G's? How could he turn with me?", a very possible answer is : your feeling/estimation of (relative) pilot fatigue was wrong. You could only pull X G's, and thought your opponent could only pull the same amount. But you're mistaken, he can actually pull X+1 G's because he's been pulling smoother maneuvers in the last minute compared to you, and voilà, you're done.

 

 

 

 

My 5 cents: If devs model this fatigue thing with such detail and complexity I strongly support a push to model adrenaline surge effects on pilot performance.

On 4/10/2021 at 4:35 AM, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

It is intended to vary. The pilot physiology model takes into account backrest angle. Pilots in aircraft with reclined seats benefit slightly from reduced acceleration along the heart-head axis.

This argument was frequently put forward by some in old IL2 times to support the idea a Spit pilot would blackout sooner than a 109 pilot because 109 has inclined seats and the Spit has none. However, the Spit had 2 feet supports on the rudder pedalts for exactly this reason. In high g conditions the pilot would rest his feed on the upper support and hence have higher knees keeping more blood on the upper body.

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Mitthrawnuruodo
46 minutes ago, sturmkraehe said:

This argument was frequently put forward by some in old IL2 times to support the idea a Spit pilot would blackout sooner than a 109 pilot because 109 has inclined seats and the Spit has none. However, the Spit had 2 feet supports on the rudder pedalts for exactly this reason. In high g conditions the pilot would rest his feed on the upper support and hence have higher knees keeping more blood on the upper body.

 

It's not an "argument" - I'm simply describing the model chosen by the developers. See the official explanation here.

 

Quote

Many researchers also attach importance to the position of the legs. For example, the Spitfire even had two pedal positions: a lower one for normal flight and a higher one for aerobatics. It was assumed that in the elevated position of the legs, the outflow of blood from the head to the legs decreases under the action of +Gs. However, a number of experiments have shown that this effect is negligible, and, nevertheless, the angle of inclination of the pilot's upper body plays a much larger role. The new model takes this angle into account, which on all highly maneuverable aircraft in our simulator ranges from 0 ° (MC.202 series VIII) to 22.5 ° (MiG-3), averaging about 10-15° for different planes.

 

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[DBS]Browning

If it's so rare that you couldn't possibly get a track of it, how do you expect the devs to be able to identify the problem you claim you are having? 

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AndyJWest
1 hour ago, Lolrawr said:

I submit to you exhibit 1

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mhc7lsxvufd4l7/1.rar?dl=0

 

2 min turn fight against 109 and 190 above 250mph.

 

I've no idea what you have uploaded, but there is no .trk file there.

 

Edit: never mind, found it - needed to use 'direct download'

 

Edit 2: Ok, I've looked at the track, what is it supposed to show? You were in a bad situation from the start. You were low on energy, at ground level, being tag-teamed by two 109s. They were taking advantage of the situation, and making best use of their energy, by using  high yoyos rather than trying to flat turn with you, and taking turns to engage. You pulled G continuously until you blacked out. Neither of the 109s was doing the same thing.

 

Like I said earlier, Tacview recordings will show G. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way to make a Tacview recording in .trk playback, so your recording doesn't really help at all.

Edited by AndyJWest
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=FSB=HandyNasty

First of all, thank you for the track! Your blackout at the end is indeed something that would also annoy me, I was genuinely surprised of its occurrence. Based on your pilot fatigue and maneuver I didn't expect you to blackout at that moment. Contrary to Andy just above, I don't think the 109 and 190 did smart maneuvers, they turned in roughly the same plane as you and hence I understand why your blackout feels undeserved compared to their non-blackout. 

 

Following observations only hold under the assumption that your pilot was fresh at the start of the fight:

 

- Your first evasive maneuver in which you go quickly to high G to avoid fire might have been penalizing you on the long run, in the sense that it made your pilot go from 100% fresh to 90% fresh (I use ball park numbers just for demonstration). These 10 percent are not immediately noticeable but very well taken into account in the physiology model. Their effects are felt a minute later after your pilot fatigue has been build up, with a slight head start compared to the 109's and 190's pilots.

 

- My main observation is that you're most often faster than the G-4 during the maneuvers. Maybe in the ballpark of 10 meters per seconds faster, so 36kph. I say this based on time 1:24 where he has his nose pointed at you, you're slightly angled compared to him and the distance still increases by something like 10 meters per second. You might think this is just a minor detail, but if you do the calculations for turns with equal turn times (again, I use ballpark numbers just to give an idea) :

  • Turn times of you and G-4 = 20 sec (calc NR2 : 18 sec turn time)
  • you go 396 kph (110m/s) and the G-4 goes 360kph (100m/s)  (calc NR2 : 90m/s and 80m/s respectively - aka 324kph and 288kph)
  • This results in you pulling constant 3.45G and the G-4 a constant 3.14G    (calc NR2 : 3.20G and 2.85G respectively)
  • Both examples give a difference in G load of  ~10%.

Now the calculations might be simplified cases, since you're not pulling a constant turn etcetc, but the point remains : you're pulling more G's for a turn with equal period. He just turns with smaller radius and same period for which he needs a smaller velocity and hence smaller G load than you. The truth is that defensive maneuvers while being faster than the opponent behind you are highly highly in your disfavor fatigue-wise.

 

 

Maybe you disagree with above observations, if yes, please point out where. Curious to see what you and others think of them.

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JG300_Winterz

Watched your track. You are turning wayyyyyy too much. You literaly kept turning the whole fight.

 

At the moment the G4 passed by you at 35sec you could have gone vertical to get on his tail. (or go straight and reset)

The 190 didnt seems to be bothered by you at this moment since he had the yak on his tail and he was too close to turn and get you anyway.

 

You should really use vertical maneuvers, especially in an aircraft that climbs that well.

 

If you go vertical you get an opportunity to reverse or reset the situation there and you give your pilot a break since the speed will decrease and so will the G forces.

Always think about the tactical egg:

 

Fighter_maneuvering_-_tactical_egg.PNG

 

Also, ease up on the throttle if you are going to turn fight.

You were full gas during the whole fight.

 

At the end when you are going to blackout you have to change the way you are defending yourself; you cant just keep pulling Gs and hope for the best.

You want to initiate scissors or stop turning while keeping your opponent out of plan and deniate his gun solution.

 

Dont have time to go into more details but as expected the G model aint the problem there.

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Lolrawr
4 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

I didn't expect you to blackout at that moment.

 

First of all thank you for taking your time to analyse my replay.

Second, exactly my thoughts, as i said in my 1st post, the spit seems a bit off to say the least. I've been in the same situation before with Yaks and i had no problem out turning 109s and 190 with ease, without a hint of blackout.

 

Your analysis does point out some things (as does [CPT] Crunch). The G difference from the speed difference could play a role in all this, but is ~10% difference that big of a deal? Or should it be?

I've been in the 109s place a couple of times, and i found it very hard to aim and shoot when my screen is 95% blacked out, so idk how he managed to do it, maybe he is the best IL2 pilot out there. But he isin't the first one to pull this out. Am i facing the elite of the elites every time i play IL2? Or maybe hes pilot wasn't even close to sleepy time.

 

If it is as you say, a small but noticeable G difference, it means its L2P issue and it's time for me to L2P. But b4 that, i'll get tacview to work and do some more tests.

 

3 hours ago, JG300_Winterz said:

Watched your track. You are turning wayyyyyy too much. You literaly kept turning the whole fight.

 

I appreciate you taking your time to watch my replay.

This topic was not made to analyse gameplay and tactics. Which tactics i use is irellevant in this discussion. 

That was the point, to turn as much as i can with an enemy on my six and show that i blackout way before he does.

 

I'm not the best virtual pilot out there, but all those tactics that people tend to recommend, including the one above, don't seem to work that well in a virtual enviorment. Maybe in real life when your lifes on the line, but in games...Naah. I've died so many times going vertical when the enemy has a firing solution on me. 

Does anybody here legit think that going vertical in that situation would have been better?

 

3 hours ago, JG300_Winterz said:

the G model aint the problem there.

 

Maybe it isin't, but i deffinetly feel that the Spitfires G model is different, aka way worse than anything else in the game. I will do my best to provide more tangible proof.

Also i feel like the blue planes have a more leniant G model, they recover a bit faster, but i didn't test that yet, just what i noticed, so don't take my word for that.

 

Is it possible that different planes have different G models? Is it possible that some planes have bugged/untunned G models?

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[DBS]Browning
16 minutes ago, Lolrawr said:

Is it possible that different planes have different G models? Is it possible that some planes have bugged/untunned G models?

 

Planes do have different g models.

Some planes have g-suits modeled, depending on date, that offer about 1g extra tolerance.

g-tolerance also depends the angle the pilot is reclined at, although this difference is usually small. German planes with reclined seats tend to benefit from this the most.

 

Planes with sensitive elevators like the spitfire may appear to have a lower g-tolerance than other planes, but this is only because it is easier for the pilot to pull many g in them easily and quickly with relatively little control input....or to put it another way, it's easier to blackout in the Spit than the 190 for the same reason that it's easier to blackout in an i-16 than it is in a He-111, despite all these planes having approximately the same g-model (aside from seat position).

 

It is very unlikely that there are bugs in the g-modeling.

Edited by [DBS]Browning
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JG300_Winterz

He didnt have a firing solution at the moment I suggested you could go vertical..

It's not only about tactics its about flying efficiently so your pilot aint exhausted too quickly.

 

Anyway Im done with you, Im loosing my time.

Everyone is trying to help but you just don't want to face reality.

Edited by JG300_Winterz
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