Jump to content

Planes You Want to Like but Don't


Recommended Posts

For me it's the Macchi. I think it's a beautiful plane, and I love to see Italian planes represented, but the guns are useless, the 20mm gunpods were never used historically (as far as I can find), and I don't like seeing it as a stand-in for the C.200 in Moscow scenarios.

 

I also want to like the P-47, but I can't figure out how to do anything in it besides drop bombs and die.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

MC.202 (stall characteristics)

P-47 (sustained turn rate, stall characteristics)

Bf-110 (fragile for what I try to use it for)

Spad XIII (forward visibility)

Dr.I (needy)

Camel (needy)

Not sure about the P-40, I'll give it another try

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Se5a. Loses revs rapidly in anything but level flight or a dive thus seriously affecting all combat manoeuvres apart from BnZ. :huh: But she's still a looker ! That's looker with an L.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In GBS, it’s the P-47. I don’t know that much about the Thunderbolt, but my understanding is that it works best as a fighter at high altitudes, so it’s at a disadvantage at the low altitudes you’re usually at in BoBp (which AFAIK is historically accurate, given that BoBp portrays the tactical operations of the USAAF rather than the strategic ones).

 

It’s not a plane, but I also have to mention the Panzer III. In terms of combat, there’s no reason to use it instead of a Panzer IV, which has better HE and AP capabilities. It’s smaller size and faster speed (?) could be extremely useful for scouting out the enemy in MP, though.

 

In CloD, I’d say the CR.42. It’s simply too slow to keep up with any fighters other than the Gladiator, it has an inadequate armament, and frontal visibility is terrible. The same is true of the G.50, but it’s somewhat faster and has better visibility.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The one that sticks out is the Fokker Dr.1. it is a really cool plane, but I could never get the handle it. 

Out of the 109, the only one that is hard to fly is the F-2. 

HS 129 it is cool too, but i am not very good attacking the ground and I inevitably crash it. The jury is still out on it though. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Spitfires. Love the planes, but in game they dont love me. With the Mk V, I can't hit anything, and by the time I might manage to do so, my cannon shells are depleted. Mk IX at least has some more ammo, but I find it extremely "mushy" in pitch, and it seems I can never trim it on that axis in a satisfactory manner. It feels very different in that aspect to other planes, at least on my end, and I can't get used to it.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had a look again at Rise of Flight .... In the light of your favorite or non-favorite plane:

Why don't these quite advanced individual plane settings exist generally in Great Battles or FC?:

 

Plane Settings.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SYN_Ricky said:

Spitfires. Love the planes, but in game they dont love me. With the Mk V, I can't hit anything, and by the time I might manage to do so, my cannon shells are depleted. Mk IX at least has some more ammo, but I find it extremely "mushy" in pitch, and it seems I can never trim it on that axis in a satisfactory manner. It feels very different in that aspect to other planes, at least on my end, and I can't get used to it.

 

Cheat a little, don't limit ammo, and try the MkIXe with clipped wings ....

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

 

Cheat a little, don't limit ammo, and try the MkIXe with clipped wings ....

I do set infinite ammo while practicing offline, but can't do that online, and that's where I fly most of the time 😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Well, for me it's not a matter of wanting to like a plane, as those that know me well can attest, I LOVE the P40 series.  However, in this sim not so much.  It is so totally hobbled by it's non historical engine limits that using it for anything other than ground attack in areas where there is little to no enemy air activity is simply a waste of my time.

 

Such a pity.

 

I have a P40 career going in stalingrad right now and I'm determined to be able to fly it well and it's just so hard. My last 2 flights were a bomber escort and an interception and for each mission we lost 2 dead and 1 wounded. We got replacement pilots but the plane count is at 4. I wasn't able to climb fast enough to get the stukas in the intercept nor catch them after we crossed. The one thing the p40 has going for it is ruggedness but i feel like the only way to counter a 109 on your tale is to dive for the deck to get speed and attempt to maneuver off of that but then you sacrifice a whole lot of altitude and climbing back is almost not worth it at that point. So difficult for me to keep energy up in that thing.

 

Edited by Airborne506
Link to post
Share on other sites

Spitfire Mk-V is weird. I guess it's "that wing", it just constantly needs elevator trimming as speed changes. With the later wing design (clipped or not), the Spitfire flies really nice. Of course, with anything that "turns well", the temptation to pull huge-G's is always there, and then you wind up in black-out-soup.

 

I guess the P-40 is the plane I want to like, but can't. It's too out-classed by the 109's. It just doesn't want to go "up". La-5 is similar.... though I really like the La-5N.

 

Otherwise, most planes have at least some "endearing" quality about them.

 

-Ryan

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Charon said:

For me it's the Macchi. I think it's a beautiful plane, and I love to see Italian planes represented, but the guns are useless, the 20mm gunpods were never used historically (as far as I can find), and I don't like seeing it as a stand-in for the C.200 in Moscow scenarios.

 

I also want to like the P-47, but I can't figure out how to do anything in it besides drop bombs and die.

 

The Mc.202 now has HE round for it's 2x HMGs.  It is not an insta kill point and destory like an Fw190A or Tempest, but I frequently get 2 - 3 AI kills per ammo load now in 8v8 in QMB.

Edited by ICDP
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jollyjack said:

 

Cheat a little, don't limit ammo, and try the MkIXe with clipped wings ....


I do like this as an offline exercise myself. I just fire away on infinite ammo in all kinds of maneuvers until I can just sort of visualize where all my rounds will go.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ICDP said:

 

The Mc.202 now has HE round for it's 2x HMGs.  It is not an insta kill point and destory like an Fw190A or Tempest, but I frequently get 2 - 3 AI kills per ammo load now in 8v8 in QMB.

 

 

Agreed!

 

Last weekend I set up a fight in QMB, 3 AI P-38 on Veteran level against just me, piloting the MC. 202. I easily managed to down all three of them by setting an engine on fire on each of them.

 

When flying the MC. 202 I always go with the additional 7,7 mm MGs. I know they don't do too much harm, but they come with only little weight penalty and add up quite nicely with the 12,5 mm HMGs.

 

To not derail this thread any further and to contribute something to its' initial purpose: P-40 (for its' strict engine timer limits) and both of the La-5 types (for their high mounted guns that constantly keep me from hitting my targets reliably) would be my choices.

Link to post
Share on other sites

P-47. It's a love hate relationship. It's both my favorite and least favorite aircraft. 

Multiple reasons for it being my least favorite:

Gamey engine time limits, improper power at certain altitudes, .50s lack of a proper harmonization pattern (and somewhat due to their performance), and it's damage model  (mostly the aerodynamic penalties it receives from even (seemingly) minimal or medium damage, I find it nearly impossible to keep in the air when I've taken damage (unless it's just .50 hits or 7mm).

As far as the fm goes it sometimes feels right and then sometimes wrong, can't say 100% what it is.

 

Imo it is the most challenging fighter to fly in-game, I manage to do well in it sometimes but not often.

Edited by Legioneod
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

P-47. It's a love hate relationship. It's both my favorite and least favorite aircraft. 

Multiple reasons for it being my least favorite:

Gamey engine time limits, improper power at certain altitudes, .50s lack of a proper harmonization pattern (and somewhat due to their performance), and it's damage model  (mostly the aerodynamic penalties it receives from even (seemingly) minimal or medium damage, I find it nearly impossible to keep in the air when I've taken damage (unless it's just .50 hits or 7mm).

 

I used to hate it, too, and think it was unflyable (as a dogfighter). I still can't handle 109s in career mode, but I eat Fw-190s for breakfast. I've put 19 sorties through it and not been shot down once. I'm damaged probably every other sortie, but not fatally. I think it handles damage remarkably well, in my limited experience.

 

Of course, I don't know if you're talking about your experiences in multiplayer or single player, or how you pick your loadouts. But I do the following in career sorties:

 

Never fly with over 60% fuel; never fly with bombs (I consider myself my entire flight's sole escort 'fighter' in ground attack sorties) or rockets; drop flaps to ~15% in turns; set gun convergence to 200m.

 

Doing all of the above, I average about 1 kill per sortie; max was 4. So long as I meet some Fw-190s. If I run into 109s, all I can do is hit the deck and evade.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried hard to like theP39 - but it did not work.

Apart from not climbing, loosing tons of whatever meager speed you might have obtained in any movement, it's the visibility. It somehow always lulls me into believing I am checking my surrounding, just to suddenly have tracers coming by left and right and getting killed by someone I never saw. Often I even hear there is someone around, but can't find him. It seems to be built to create an impression of good surround visibility, but in practice totally fails in this aspect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it's the Tempest, the turn rate just seems way to optimistic for me, to the point that it just doesn't remotely match historical records.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

La 5 for me.

 

Love the speed but those guns😅

2 minutes ago, [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier said:

P-47, its cool with its heavy bomb load and 50 cals.

But it flies like a fat whale and very complicated to manage the turbocharger

The interlock of turbocharger to throttle works fine for me - tried this?

Edited by easterling77
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

I used to hate it, too, and think it was unflyable (as a dogfighter). I still can't handle 109s in career mode, but I eat Fw-190s for breakfast. I've put 19 sorties through it and not been shot down once. I'm damaged probably every other sortie, but not fatally. I think it handles damage remarkably well, in my limited experience.

 

Of course, I don't know if you're talking about your experiences in multiplayer or single player, or how you pick your loadouts. But I do the following in career sorties:

 

Never fly with over 60% fuel; never fly with bombs (I consider myself my entire flight's sole escort 'fighter' in ground attack sorties) or rockets; drop flaps to ~15% in turns; set gun convergence to 200m.

 

Doing all of the above, I average about 1 kill per sortie; max was 4. So long as I meet some Fw-190s. If I run into 109s, all I can do is hit the deck and evade.

 

I fly multiplayer mostly. I do well in it sometimes but not often, I don't hate it but its certainly a challenge to fly compared to all the other fighters.

2 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

If you are wanting to get the best out of the P-47, shouldn’t you be somewhere up around 30,000ft?  

Maybe. 20-25K is nest performance. Besides no-one flies up there in multiplayer and in singleplayer everything is down low. Also power at those altitudes is lower than it should be so performance does decline a bit more than it should.

Also the P-47 doesn't handle very well at high altitudes imo (contrary to real life). I find it stalls very easily, when trying to pull any sort of g or maneuver it just stalls or goes into a spin. I don't think its high altitude flight characteristics are well represented in-game. My buddy who is a far better pilot then me complains constantly about the P-47 stall characteristics, especially at high altitude.

Edited by Legioneod
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid I have to agree with a lot of others. The P-40 just doesn't seem up to the task of dogfighting with it's contemporaries. There is no way to catch an AI 109F unless you trick it into a head-on pass and don't catch a cannon shell on the way by.

 

On the other hand, the Spitfire Vb is at the top of my list of favorites. The ammo supply requires precise shot placement, so I set convergence at 200m, use the .303s to get the range, and when I start getting hits I squeeze off a few cannon rounds at the engine, wing root, or cockpit. Works for me.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 216th_Nocke said:

I tried hard to like theP39 - but it did not work.

Apart from not climbing, loosing tons of whatever meager speed you might have obtained in any movement, it's the visibility. It somehow always lulls me into believing I am checking my surrounding, just to suddenly have tracers coming by left and right and getting killed by someone I never saw. Often I even hear there is someone around, but can't find him. It seems to be built to create an impression of good surround visibility, but in practice totally fails in this aspect.

 

Same here. It feels good in Quick Mission mode. In game, it's just no fun. It likes to overheat and doesn't take damage well. The latter is nice if you're in a 109. :)

 

-Ryan

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

I fly multiplayer mostly. I do well in it sometimes but not often, I don't hate it but its certainly a challenge to fly compared to all the other fighters.

 

Also the P-47 doesn't handle very well at high altitudes imo (contrary to real life).

 

Ah, multiplayer. I can well imagine how that'd pose a significantly greater challenge than single. The only viable option a P-47 has in multiplayer, in my opinion, is to totally recreate real life. Dive on low-alt targets (which will be 95% of your enemies), destroy them in one pass, zoom climb away. 2 problems inhibit this tactic: the fact that the P-47 does not seem to dive as phenomenally as is described both by German and American aces; and that Browning .50s aren't as destructive as they probably should be, especially at distances above 300m. In those respects, I fully understand your frustration. These issues are less pronounced in single player, where you have more options in how to trick the AI.

 

As for high altitude, I've tried a few other planes (as well as the P-47), and honestly, I can't stand the way any handle at altitude. I know handling gets pretty weird (floaty, mushy, constant stalling) the closer you get to 30k feet, but even 20k makes me uncomfortable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

P-40 and P-47 for me, because they just feel sluggish. Maybe the P-47 Razorback is better, but I don't have BON. Any Spitfire, although now that I figured out how to consistently hit things with the wing guns and land this thing without a ground loop, it's OK-ish (still short on ammo, though). MiG-3, because it's neither maneuverable nor particularly well armed. 

 

Oddly enough, I bought the Macci just recently, and it looks all right. You won't be shooting the wings off anything, but it's good enough at setting the engines on fire. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/1/2021 at 2:02 PM, 40plus said:

I would say P-47 but I don't want to like it....it's ugly and it flies ugly......screw the P-47

Both versions :P

 

The one plane that I REALLY want to like but can't is the HS-129. I fudging love that plane but I can't fly it to save my life so I relegate it to the dumpster pile with a broken heart 💔

For the hs-129, what changed my mind was flying it in MP with people that knew how to get most out of it.

 

Here are some examples...

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Any of the spitfires. They look sexy, the fly in a sexy way, they shot down fascist planes in a sexy way, whats not to like?...

 

 

 

 

....Until I try to land them. Really, tried to land a spitfire like 500 times and it will always result in ground-looping, no matter whats the RPM/throttle settings, no matter how hard I break, no matter if I simply ignore the brakes, jesus, I tried everything I could but still, impossible to land it successfuly

Edited by MasserME262
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, MasserME262 said:

 Really, tried to land a spitfire like 500 times and it will always result in ground-looping, no matter whats the RPM/throttle settings, no matter how hard I break, no matter if I simply ignore the brakes, jesus, I tried everything I could but still, impossible to land it successfuly

 

Ditto. Just when I think I've discovered a winning strategy (like tapping the brakes rather than mashing them on full), I still loop.

 

I cleanly land the Spit in about 5-10% of my attempts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The P-40 makes me sad. It may not have been a spectacular plane IRL- I've read that the Soviets had to run theirs at WEP constantly to keep up with 109s- but pushed in that manner it performed well in air-to-air. In this sim it's a sitting duck, and if the 109s don't kill you the engine limits will.

 

(At first I was actually going to say Bf-109, as that unmaneuverability at high speeds is really frustrating for a BnZ-capable plane, but I'm coming around to it. The K-4's rocketship climb rate and 30mm gun really are a fun combination.)

Edited by Catgut
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, MasserME262 said:

....Until I try to land them. Really, tried to land a spitfire like 500 times and it will always result in ground-looping, no matter whats the RPM/throttle settings, no matter how hard I break, no matter if I simply ignore the brakes, jesus, I tried everything I could but still, impossible to land it successfuly

 

11 hours ago, oc2209 said:

Ditto. Just when I think I've discovered a winning strategy (like tapping the brakes rather than mashing them on full), I still loop.

I cleanly land the Spit in about 5-10% of my attempts.

 

Actually it's easy. (Most of the time) Before you land, dial in full right rudder trim and set prop pitch to full. No brakes, use a little power and rudder to keep it straight. Just use brakes to actually stop, or only tap them to straighten up.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Many of the issues with landing/ground looping are caused because we, as a group, simply land far too fast.  In the Spitfire I try to come "over the fence" at 90 ish MPH indicated.  With most of the single seaters in this sim, anything over 100mph/160kph is TOO FAST.

 

Now, I'm not exonerating the ground handling physics of the game here, it's whacky as can be.  However, simply slowing down your approach speed can help mitigate much of the ground looping nonsense that we encounter. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 issues with landing/ground looping

One big thing to take into account which would change a lot of things: the brakes are simply not as effective than they should be; with efficient brakes you could stop your plane when you are starting to spin for example.

Edited by JG300_Winterz
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Before you land, dial in full right rudder trim and set prop pitch to full. No brakes, use a little power and rudder to keep it straight. Just use brakes to actually stop, or only tap them to straighten up.

 

I'll try this, thanks. I admit I've never changed anything with the Spit that I never had to change on other planes. It just never occurred to me.

 

4 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Many of the issues with landing/ground looping are caused because we, as a group, simply land far too fast.  In the Spitfire I try to come "over the fence" at 90 ish MPH indicated.  With most of the single seaters in this sim, anything over 100mph/160kph is TOO FAST.

 

I used to be guilty of coming in at 110-120 MPH regularly, but I've since lowered it to around 100. My problem with the Spit is that the looping only happens at the end of the roll, around 40-50 MPH.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, MasserME262 said:

Any of the spitfires. They look sexy, the fly in a sexy way, they shot down fascist planes in a sexy way, whats not to like?...

 

 

 

 

....Until I try to land them. Really, tried to land a spitfire like 500 times and it will always result in ground-looping, no matter whats the RPM/throttle settings, no matter how hard I break, no matter if I simply ignore the brakes, jesus, I tried everything I could but still, impossible to land it successfuly

 

In regards to ground handling in all tail draggers in the sim, it is worth remembering that if you are chasing the tail it's already too late.  This may sound counter-intuitive but the best way I have found to prevent the frantic tail chasing is to provoke it to go out of control on your terms.  That way you know where it's going to go because you are the one provoking it.

 

So after landing keep the stick fully back until you slow down a  bit, then rapidly alternating light left brake right brake for a second at at a time "confuses" the plane and a ground loop has no time to develop on it's terms.  I would imagine this would be fatal in a real tail dragger but I swear by it sim. :)

Edited by ICDP
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oc2209 said:

 

I used to be guilty of coming in at 110-120 MPH regularly, but I've since lowered it to around 100. My problem with the Spit is that the looping only happens at the end of the roll, around 40-50 MPH.

 

Yeah, that is total nonsense for an aircraft that weighs as much as a Spitfire, or any WW2 single seater for that matter.  You are right at the end of your roll out and out of the blue the plane starts spinning like a top, and your brakes have zero effect on it.  By far this is the weakest aspect of aircraft dynamics in the sim.

 

However, the "harder is more real" crowd hold sway here and it will never be changed.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

Yeah, that is total nonsense for an aircraft that weighs as much as a Spitfire, or any WW2 single seater for that matter.  You are right at the end of your roll out and out of the blue the plane starts spinning like a top, and your brakes have zero effect on it. 

 

I did some tests just now, on the Spit and the 109G-6 with the tail wheel unlocked. Between 28-35 MPH the loop becomes uncontrollable, in both planes. The strange thing is that I'm countering the pull up to then, and it seems to work. But I don't want to go full opposite rudder/brake because I'm afraid to turn it around the other way. So the pull is so strong that it essentially ignores all the partial braking and rudder I'd been applying up to then, and it enters the loop that not even a sudden full brake stomp can avoid.

 

I would assume that, when you're down to ~30 MPH, you should be out of the danger zone. The other odd part is that I would think, at that low speed, brakes would be more effective, not less.

 

*Edit:

 

I checked my one book source on 109 landings that's written in any worthwhile detail. The pilot says that loops are more common as the plane slows down (presumably at the critical time when the plane's too slow for the rudder to work, and too fast for the brakes to work); but the 109 was unusual in that it darted early in the landing run.

 

*Edit 2:

 

Did some more practice landings (I want to 'git gud' before the Spit XIV is released), and... I guess you could call this improvement. 3 landings in a row

without a full loop. Some loop flirtation, definitely. No damage, more importantly.

 

20210411213033_1.thumb.jpg.fe3902f7f210e1bac1d1553ed01f27ce.jpg20210411213553_1.thumb.jpg.d1f2c0228589c8a5a339bf7a53d47493.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some things I learned from this article I looked up: https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/docs/cb/cb_420.pdf

 

The article details 3 accounts of novices landing, and ground looping, in the company of veteran instructors. The advice I gathered is pretty similar to what Jaegermeister said above. Don't use brakes until late in the run. Keep input duration minimal, including rudder.

 

At least when I enter a loop now, it's gentler, not as violent as it was.

 

Edited by oc2209
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...