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Developer Diary 277 - Discussion


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4 minutes ago, 150GCT_Veltro said:

Some examples of italian pilots LATE (44 - 45) equipment:

 


Worth noting that a lot of the equipment those pilots are using is German, because they’re from the northern Italian fascist faction that was a German puppet-state.

 

 

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About italian DLC, yes Macchi 200 would be the best choice for Stalingrad as for IAR 80 but considering we need a "best seller" DLC, the best choice would be G-10 Erla. Macchi 205 and G-55 would be ......a dream, but we need first Italy (Husky for ex.).

 

However, this could be a realistic choice for Italy: G-10 Erla.

Messerschmitt-Bf-109G10R3-Erla-ANR-2Gr4S

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46 minutes ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


Worth noting that a lot of the equipment those pilots are using is German, because they’re from the northern Italian fascist faction that was a German puppet-state.

 

 

 

It was always a mix of italian and german equipment however. It's a bit hard to define a typical italian pilot equipment. We could have, maybe, an early pilot for the ETO.

 

 

bb5971c2c592edaf5691ce439aae83a8.jpg

32eea237159ed0437dc02d99a072af7c.jpg

200.jpg

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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I would add this about Regia Aeronautica pilot 1942-43

 

 

 

pilots5.jpg

The standard flight jaket of italian pilots was the " Marus " during WW2.

Here an example..

 

marus.jpg

Here my old post with more informations

 

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Wow, that's a DD and a half! Thanks team.

 

Apologies if I've missed it, but will the dynamic codes apply to the AI as well? Superb idea, little touches like this are what really make the immersion greater for me.

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Wonderful DD, so much content and interesting news. Seeing my gorgeous baby 410 in progress is a treat to warm the coldest of hearts.
Gorgeous new skins for the 202 too, though I do think I'll miss the winter camo since so many maps are covered in snow. 

 

Excellent job!

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For the Mc 202, would be nice to see in Croat service. 

 

image.png.b69890f8e7b2f2f34363d3aad38a2c8e.png

 

Image from "Hrvatsko Ratno Zrakoplovstvo u Drugome Svjetskom Ratu"  /  "The Croatian Air Force in the Second World War" by Tihomir Likso and Danko Canak

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That Spitfire looked for a second like a photo of the real thing, it's going to be a beast to fly against. So I'll have to get Dora out of the shed to see what happens. The AR234 and the ME410 are about the most interesting axis aircraft you could have picked, you can sell me the under belly cannon pack for the 234 later! If they had had that earlier it could have caused a lot of problems for the bomber formations, but could imagine heading into a formation of bombers with just a glass screen in front of you, nice view in your last moments!

We are very fortunate to have this sim and the hard working developers, thank you  all

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I do not know if I missed the info, if so, apologies, but when the 109's new tail damage model will be implemented?

 

Regards,

 

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3 hours ago, Alexmarine said:

New generic Med skin for 202... Italian pilot model coming later this year... Yep, Sicily 1943 (From May to September 1943) module confirmed next 😎

IMG_20210326_151753.png

 

Such a beautiful aircraft.  Che bella machina!

21 hours ago, 30speed said:

 

compared to MC202 (my fav Top 5 plane), this one is a.. uh.. very .. very ugly..  But I suppose there's a charm in it. It's just buried somewhere deep, very very deep.

 

If you can see one in person I think you will change your perception.  There is one at the National Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton Ohio.  It is rather small, well proportioned, and gives the impression of a very aerobatic aircraft.  In the flesh it is quite an endearing shape.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
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21 hours ago, 30speed said:

 

compared to MC202 (my fav Top 5 plane), this one is a.. uh.. very .. very ugly..  But I suppose there's a charm in it. It's just buried somewhere deep, very very deep.


Perhaps you’ll be able to better appreciate it’s beauty by seeing an aircraft that actually is ugly: the Stipa-Caproni.

 

6D468160-F496-4F08-9F2B-A735F11C713F.jpeg.d7175594ba0f2399da4c6c2252ab6294.jpeg


I believe the designer was inspired by seeing a Tiger Moth fall tail-first into a well.

Edited by [Pb]Cybermat47
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What an amazing update, easily my favorite in the recent past.

 

The XIV screen shots look amazing, what a sleek airplane this is! Plus the quasi confirmation that we'll be able to mix-and-match the C and E wings with both elliptic and cut wing tips, just as we already can with the IX.

 

The 410 looks menacing! Probably the plane I'm looking forward to fly the most out of the Normandy set.

 

But my personal highlight is the treatment for the Mc. 202. The new 4k skins look absolutely wonderful and the coming Italian pilot model is a welcome addition. Maybe I'm reading into these things too much, but I really have the hope of all of this leading to an Italy 1943 scenario at some point, which is one of my personal favorites.  I'd love to get my hands on planes like the Italian Series 5 fighters (which would be a welcome change for all the Axis flyers out there) and the Spitfire Mk. VIII.

 

But whereever this sim will venture next, I will follow. Big THANK YOU to Jason and the team for bringing us the very best WW2 flight experience there is.

Edited by Fritz_X
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On 3/27/2021 at 1:27 AM, ImaginativeTruth said:

Having therefore become fully appreciative of the prowess of the Mosquito, the Germans endeavoured to build a version of their own called the Me410.

i'm sorry, but that is just wishful thinking by the British, they did most definitely not inspire the 410. The 410 is basically just a reworked Me 210 that fixed it's instability issues and the name was changed instead of just calling it Me 210 B C or whatever because of the bad taste the Me 210 name left with pilots. 

The first flight of the Mosquito was November 25th 1940, entering service in 1941. It's development started in 1938

 

The first flight of the Me 210 was September 2nd 1939 entering service in 1941 as well. It's development started in 1937

The German "response" to the Mosquito was the Ta 154, or lets say the Germans were inspired at least, seeing that a very capable plane can be made form wood, which was great for Germany with the shortage in material.
 

Spoiler

Profil Focke-Wulf Ta 154 II.png

Yes Jason, I'm okay with you adding it to the game ;) 

Sadly it never entered service .However it was field tested by EK 154 flying from the Evernhorst airfield near Hannover.

Edited by Asgar
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The Ta 154 program suffered a critical blow when the factory producing the special glue was bombed. Prototypes was hence bult with inferior glue and thus one lost it's wing and crashed killing the test pilot. After that the program was abandoned. If my memory serves me, can't check the facts right now.

Feel free to "shoot me down" if You have info at hand 😄

Edited by SvAF/F16_Goblin
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11 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_Goblin said:

The Ta 154 program suffered a critical blow when the factory producing the special glue was bombed. Prototypes was hence bult with inferior glue and thus one lost it's wing and crashed killing the test pilot. After that the program was abandoned. If my memory serves me, can't check the facts right now.

Feel free to "shoot me down" if You have info at hand 😄

don't forget the sabotage that was going on before that. I don't want to go into too much detail but let's just say urea massively reduces the effectiveness of wood glue 😄

Edited by Asgar
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22 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


Perhaps you’ll be able to better appreciate it’s beauty by seeing an aircraft that actually is ugly: the Stipa-Caproni.

 

6D468160-F496-4F08-9F2B-A735F11C713F.jpeg.d7175594ba0f2399da4c6c2252ab6294.jpeg


I believe the designer was inspired by seeing a Tiger Moth fall tail-first into a well.

 

What the designers were actually trying to do was build a test-bed for what was effectively an early ducted fan. The final intended use was in much larger multi-engined aircraft, which would probably have looked more sensible. As it was, the thing they built was ugly, but worked enough to serve its purpose. It proved that the concept wasn't really sound at least as originally envisioned, and thus saved them from building something prettier but a lot more expensive and useless.

 

Looking pretty is often a good thing in aircraft, but it isn't always essential - consider the Fairey Gannet.

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33 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_Goblin said:

The Ta 154 program suffered a critical blow when the factory producing the special glue was bombed. Prototypes was hence bult with inferior glue and thus one lost it's wing and crashed killing the test pilot. After that the program was abandoned. If my memory serves me, can't check the facts right now.

Feel free to "shoot me down" if You have info at hand

 

That's incorrect. There's a book by Dietmar Hermann (I already have the german version) coming out soon, shedding some light onto the 154 for the anglophone audience and dealing with those oft-repeated and wrong stories. I can't recommend it highly enough.

 

The 154 had lots of issues - all of them solvable. The RLM's lack of focus (sounds familiar) in terms of what the aircraft was supposed to be and stupid decisions like *must be made of wood, despite the designer having no experience in doing that* cut it's effectiveness short. It's main jinx was a weak landing-gear and the allocation of weak engines*, combined with the percieved need to be built from wood, which drove up the weight.

 

The 154 would have flown rings around the Mosquito, had it been given proper attention and allocation of material.

 

58 minutes ago, Asgar said:

i'm sorry, but that is just wishful thinking by the British, they did most definitely not inspire the 410. The 410 is basically just a reworked Me 210 that fixed it's instability issues and the name was changed instead of just calling it Me 210 B C or whatever because of the bad taste the Me 210 name left with pilots. 

The first flight of the Mosquito was November 25th 1940, entering service in 1941. It's development started in 1938

 

The first flight of the Me 210 was September 2nd 1939 entering service in 1941 as well. It's development started in 1937

The German "response" to the Mosquito was the Ta 154, or lets say the Germans were inspired at least, seeing that a very capable plane can be made form wood, which was great for Germany with the shortage in material.

 

There was no real shortage of aluminum (yes, it was short, but not THAT short) - other metals were more of an issue, and those issues weren't going to be solved by building the airplane from wood.

 

The 410 was much closer to the Mosquito in terms of capability, size and performance than the 154, which by all means was a light night-fighter.

 

The 154 started as an an ego-project by Göring - and like most of his ego-projects, it failed for lack of common sense.

The eventual Ta 254, which would have done away with the most pressing issues of the 154 was cut short, just before it was about to become a thing.

 

The Ta 254 - by all practical means - would have been an F7F Tigercat made out of wood.

 

____

*Later projected versions with the Jumo 213E or DB603L were going to fly north of 700kph - and not just a little north.

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You can tell they are excited by a dev update when everyone starts talking about their dream additions. :)

 

 

  

On 3/27/2021 at 2:08 AM, 150GCT_Veltro said:

About italian DLC, yes Macchi 200 would be the best choice for Stalingrad as for IAR 80 but considering we need a "best seller" DLC, the best choice would be G-10 Erla.

 

The IAR-80/81 also served on the Kuban map though, not just Stalingrad... which is a plus. It is also arguably a well-balanced opponent for the I-16 and I-153... the M.C.200 being a little bit too high performance. Plus there are all the armament variations.

 

That said, I see your argument - and it would seem it is a particularly important aircraft that should at least make it into Desert Wings.

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Honestly - I will very happy if Jason's team will create an Mediterranean battlefield. Not only Malta - but Sicily and main Italy peninsula as well. Yeah in this area are beautiful planes from both sides - for example MC. 200, MC. 205, Cr.42, Fiats, Reggiane, Bredas, S.M.... etc. From other side - A36 Apache, P-40s, P-38F-G, P-47C, Seahurricane, Seafire, Gladiator, Swordfishes, D. 520... Oh yeah... Sorry for offtopic. 

 

P. S. I will in extasy when we will have - maybe, one time in far future - Battle of France 1940. 2nd sorry fot offtopic. 

 

Edited by I./JG1_Baron
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Just wanted to mention a thing or two about Tactical Codes feature. It would be very beneficial is this was implemented within the Mission editor as well as the "Career Mode" and historically accurate. Also, this wouldn't just apply to the user's unit but the AI units as well. This also means the providing the ability to limit a single/multiple skins to all aircraft, both the user's unit aircraft, friendly AI and enemy AI as well.

 

I am not sure how much value there will be for us users if this was available in 'Quick Mission".

 

There's a doubt that this application hasn't been though out as IL-2 1946 already had the functionality.

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9 hours ago, Asgar said:

  

i'm sorry, but that is just wishful thinking by the British, they did most definitely not inspire the 410. The 410 is basically just a reworked Me 210 that fixed it's instability issues and the name was changed instead of just calling it Me 210 B C or whatever because of the bad taste the Me 210 name left with pilots. 

The first flight of the Mosquito was November 25th 1940, entering service in 1941. It's development started in 1938

 

The first flight of the Me 210 was September 2nd 1939 entering service in 1941 as well. It's development started in 1937

The German "response" to the Mosquito was the Ta 154, or lets say the Germans were inspired at least, seeing that a very capable plane can be made form wood, which was great for Germany with the shortage in material.
 

  Hide contents

Profil Focke-Wulf Ta 154 II.png

Yes Jason, I'm okay with you adding it to the game ;) 

Sadly it never entered service .However it was field tested by EK 154 flying from the Evernhorst airfield near Hannover.

 

I think you'd need to take it up with 85 Squadron 😉 - I think they only considered aircraft that made it into service and they fought against.

However, I think the He219 Uhu was the real rival for the night fighting / intruder Mosquito - it was in service and has a history of many successful intercepts on the Mosquito.

3 minutes ago, ImaginativeTruth said:

 

I think you'd need to take it up with 85 Squadron 😉 - but I agree its arguable.

However, I think the He219 Uhu was the real rival for the night fighting / intruder Mosquito - it was in service and has a history of many successful intercepts on the Mosquito.

 

8 hours ago, SvAF/F16_Goblin said:

The Ta 154 program suffered a critical blow when the factory producing the special glue was bombed. Prototypes was hence bult with inferior glue and thus one lost it's wing and crashed killing the test pilot. After that the program was abandoned. If my memory serves me, can't check the facts right now.

Feel free to "shoot me down" if You have info at hand 😄

 

The glue chemical composition and 'sandwiching' of plywood/ balsa in the Mosquito was actually pretty advanced from what I've read. I think that the wood glue used in German aircraft was chemically and mechanically poor, with many complaints on the 109K tail assemblies (also a result of sabotage from the slave labour used), the 'Natter' , the Me 163 and the He 162.

7 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

German designers came up with the best paper aeroplanes of WW2, no question...

Morton Publishing have found a huge cache of these 'what if' plans that are frankly astounding to read about - Dan Sharp is the Author who is covering this for the publisher and I recommend his books highly if you're interested.

 

Makes you think Soviet and American aircraft designers from 1948 - 1960 just 'called it in' design wise, and relied on the advanced aeronautical studies and designs the Germans did in the later part of the war.

7 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

That's incorrect. There's a book by Dietmar Hermann (I already have the german version) coming out soon, shedding some light onto the 154 for the anglophone audience and dealing with those oft-repeated and wrong stories. I can't recommend it highly enough.

 

The 154 had lots of issues - all of them solvable. The RLM's lack of focus (sounds familiar) in terms of what the aircraft was supposed to be and stupid decisions like *must be made of wood, despite the designer having no experience in doing that* cut it's effectiveness short. It's main jinx was a weak landing-gear and the allocation of weak engines*, combined with the percieved need to be built from wood, which drove up the weight.

 

The 154 would have flown rings around the Mosquito, had it been given proper attention and allocation of material.

 

 

There was no real shortage of aluminum (yes, it was short, but not THAT short) - other metals were more of an issue, and those issues weren't going to be solved by building the airplane from wood.

 

The 410 was much closer to the Mosquito in terms of capability, size and performance than the 154, which by all means was a light night-fighter.

 

The 154 started as an an ego-project by Göring - and like most of his ego-projects, it failed for lack of common sense.

The eventual Ta 254, which would have done away with the most pressing issues of the 154 was cut short, just before it was about to become a thing.

 

The Ta 254 - by all practical means - would have been an F7F Tigercat made out of wood.

 

____

*Later projected versions with the Jumo 213E or DB603L were going to fly north of 700kph - and not just a little north.

 

Definitely recommend this series of videos from the author of the new book ' The Secret Horsepower Race' - certainly balances out the view that the Germans had technically superior engines, and often had material supply issues like nickel that seriously impacted engine design throughout the war (I'm just parroting what the video says!).

 

 

Edited by ImaginativeTruth
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34 minutes ago, ImaginativeTruth said:

 

Definitely recommend this series of videos from the author of the new book ' The Secret Horsepower Race' - certainly balances out the view that the Germans had technically superior engines, and often had material supply issues like nickel that seriously impacted engine design throughout the war (I'm just parroting what the video says!).

 

 

Funnily enough his book arrived in the post not long ago, haven't started it yet because I have a serious reading pile to get through but I might just have to promote it to the top of the pile. Really interesting to hear that excerpt from Messerschmitt and Goering's discussion (sounded more like a marital row ;)).

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18 minutes ago, Mac_Messer said:

I take it the devs have decided that Me410 can be implemented as a whole up to 1C standards. That is good news. Hope the same is for Mosquito.

 

I'd think it likely that the Mosquito is better documented than the Me 410, and we've already seen screenshots of 3D modelling (DD 262), so I don't think there is much to worry about.

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1 hour ago, Mac_Messer said:

I take it the devs have decided that Me410 can be implemented as a whole up to 1C standards. That is good news. Hope the same is for Mosquito.

Wouldn't that be implied when they announced it would be part of BON?

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6 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Wouldn't that be implied when they announced it would be part of BON?

Not necessarily. The BON  announcement explicitly stated that if one of the planned aircraft proved to be unfeasible, it would be replaced by a comparably suitable type.  

Accordingly, I am glad that there seems to be enough material to bring the Me 410 to life digitally.

Here is a link to the announcement and the specific phrase:

Quote

"This is what we plan to build based on our current research and desires. Of course, if for any reason one of these planes cannot be built to our satisfaction, we will find a suitable replacement."

 

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1 hour ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

Not necessarily. The BON  announcement explicitly stated that if one of the planned aircraft proved to be unfeasible, it would be replaced by a comparably suitable type.  

I'm happy to see it too.  I would just like to know which version of the 410 we're getting

Edited by Asgar
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Really, really enjoyed reading this dev blog, very excited for the upcoming update! so much to unpack... the Me 410 speaks to me as being functionally aesthetic - i'm going to be pinching myself all year to be patient for its arrival. I'm especially interested to see how the cockpit including that rear gunner position with its hand-grips, gunsight and turret system work out - typically over-engineered yes - but I love it. Assume we're getting the A-1 and A-1/U-2.

 

The Spitfire Mk XIV... what can I say... its going to be a lot of fun - Rolls Royce... you bad boys! lol

 

Pleasantly surprised and glad to see that the tail plane issue with the '109's has been looked at - I wouldn't like to think how much time that has taken remodelling it all ... but I have no doubt that addressing it will be well received among the community... so a real thumbs up there; some quite hard work been put in it seems.

 

I'm quite a fan of the Ju88, so really thankful to hear its getting the 4K treatment; will be nice for terrorised people on airfields across IL-2 to see the Ju88 darting across in Ultra HD as their gunners go bonkers lol.

 

Would be great if the next game update makes it through before the easter bank holiday... although I'm probably being a little too optimistic.

 

Cheers

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14 minutes ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

Really, really enjoyed reading this dev blog, very excited for the upcoming update! so much to unpack... the Me 410 speaks to me as being functionally aesthetic - i'm going to be pinching myself all year to be patient for its arrival. I'm especially interested to see how the cockpit including that rear gunner position with its hand-grips, gunsight and turret system work out - typically over-engineered yes - but I love it. Assume we're getting the A-1 and A-1/U-2.

 

The Spitfire Mk XIV... what can I say... its going to be a lot of fun - Rolls Royce... you bad boys! lol

 

Pleasantly surprised and glad to see that the tail plane issue with the '109's has been looked at - I wouldn't like to think how much time that has taken remodelling it all ... but I have no doubt that addressing it will be well received among the community... so a real thumbs up there; some quite hard work been put in it seems.

 

I'm quite a fan of the Ju88, so really thankful to hear its getting the 4K treatment; will be nice for terrorised people on airfields across IL-2 to see the Ju88 darting across in Ultra HD as their gunners go bonkers lol.

 

Would be great if the next game update makes it through before the easter bank holiday... although I'm probably being a little too optimistic.

 

Cheers

well, BoN is '44 scenario so if you ask me the 410 B would make more sense

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19 minutes ago, Asgar said:

well, BoN is '44 scenario so if you ask me the 410 B would make more sense

 

That is very true, although I'm not sure how many of the B variant were available in comparison to the A in terms of production.

 

Of course, I'd love to get my hands on the B variant with its greater performance and armament. It seems quite hard to distinguish externally the difference. I guess that's a good argument for having both!

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29 minutes ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

 

That is very true, although I'm not sure how many of the B variant were available in comparison to the A in terms of production.

 

Of course, I'd love to get my hands on the B variant with its greater performance and armament. It seems quite hard to distinguish externally the difference. I guess that's a good argument for having both!

image.png.964b3364d09a41b084eb00e936892272.png
well, more than a third were B models... so i'd say, that's enough to justify it and again in '44 the B seems the better choice plus... there is the U4 mod.... and i want that 😄 If we have a Mosquito with a 57mm i kinda want the 410 with the 50mm

Edited by Asgar
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It’s like Christmas that keeps on giving. And “hip hip hooray” for the news on Flying Circus!
 

I’m still holding out hope for that E.III. I miss those days of throttle blipping and yeah I know I’ve still got ROF but now I’m spoiled with the updated graphics and VR.

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