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Battle of Bodenplatte: Does the 190D-9 career just not "work"?


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I've been alternating between a Luftwaffe and a VVS career for each of the "Battle of's". Lots of fun to start with a Luftwaffe side through the campaign, and then re-fly the campaign from the Soviet side.

 

In the Battle of Bodenplatte, I've noticed that the career missions for D-9 aren't timed "right", as the D-9 is based far behind the lines, and it always gets "intercept ground attacker" missions. By the time you get to where the mission is, the P-47's you were supposed to intercept are already landing back at base. You always get jumped by an Allied something-or-other, which is worth the price of admission, but since you never engage the P-47's, the mission is always a "failure". Is this just the way it is? I created a temporary career with "Kommando Nowotny" flying the 262 from the same base, and those missions always "sync up" with the bomber formation you're supposed to intercept, so it seems that something is just amiss with the Dora missions.

 

Just curious.

 

-Ryan

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Not limited to the Dora. I am flying a Fw190a8 campaign. I am closer but when my staffel takes off the ground attackers (mostly P47’s) are all ready at ‘work’. But intercepting bombers or ground attackers are two different mission types.

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I wish they had 262 take-off/landing protection missions, that's what I made my D9 career for, was a little disappointed if I'm honest. Here's hoping they'll be added in the future...

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1 hour ago, Soilworker said:

I wish they had 262 take-off/landing protection missions, that's what I made my D9 career for, was a little disappointed if I'm honest. Here's hoping they'll be added in the future...

 

Based on the mission templates in the editor, this mission type will probably be added at some point.

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23 hours ago, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

Not limited to the Dora. I am flying a Fw190a8 campaign. I am closer but when my staffel takes off the ground attackers (mostly P47’s) are all ready at ‘work’. But intercepting bombers or ground attackers are two different mission types.

 

Wow. I just confirmed this for myself. Some 190A groups fly "free hunts" only. Seems others get a mix skewed toward "intercepting ground attackers". The latter seem like they're almost unplayable. Since the AI flies Spitfires much better that the 109's that are first on the scene... the 109's suffer 100% attrition. By the time you get there, the P-47's are gone, but I counted over 10 Spitfires lingering. Yikes. The only way forward is to treat all missions like "Free Hunts".... get some altitude, and play to the 190A's strengths.

 

Please tell me it gets better as the front moves East. After 3 campaigns being stuck in 109's.... except for the brief stretch with the 190A-3 in Stalingrad... I just don't want to fly 109's anymore.

 

-Ryan

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4 hours ago, RyanR said:

 

Wow. I just confirmed this for myself. Some 190A groups fly "free hunts" only. Seems others get a mix skewed toward "intercepting ground attackers". The latter seem like they're almost unplayable. Since the AI flies Spitfires much better that the 109's that are first on the scene... the 109's suffer 100% attrition. By the time you get there, the P-47's are gone, but I counted over 10 Spitfires lingering. Yikes. The only way forward is to treat all missions like "Free Hunts".... get some altitude, and play to the 190A's strengths.

 

Please tell me it gets better as the front moves East. After 3 campaigns being stuck in 109's.... except for the brief stretch with the 190A-3 in Stalingrad... I just don't want to fly 109's anymore.

 

-Ryan

 

The mission types and frequency are based on what the real Luftwaffe fighter units were flying at this time. Outside of having airfield protection missions for III./JG 54, JG 26, and JG 27, the vast majority of missions being flown at that time were either Free Hunt missions for fighter-bombers or intercepting bombers. But, by the fall of 1944, the Luftwaffe had largely given up trying to intercept bombers with piston-engine fighters, so their efforts instead switched to combating the fighter-bombers, so that's why the majority of missions you see are Free Hunts or scrambles for fighter-bombers. That was the life of a German fighter pilot in late 1944. :) 

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I have noticed that in many campaigns throughout the il-2 series, it's better to select airspawns (assuming you are taxiing/taking off each mission). 

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2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The mission types and frequency are based on what the real Luftwaffe fighter units were flying at this time. Outside of having airfield protection missions for III./JG 54, JG 26, and JG 27, the vast majority of missions being flown at that time were either Free Hunt missions for fighter-bombers or intercepting bombers. But, by the fall of 1944, the Luftwaffe had largely given up trying to intercept bombers with piston-engine fighters, so their efforts instead switched to combating the fighter-bombers, so that's why the majority of missions you see are Free Hunts or scrambles for fighter-bombers. That was the life of a German fighter pilot in late 1944. :) 

 

To quote myself: here's a screengrab of missions flown by JG 26 that I compiled from JG 26 War Diary - lots and lots of Free Hunt missions:

 

Capture.thumb.JPG.41427cce54c444d9134c49909b7a3e52.JPG

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2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

To quote myself: here's a screengrab of missions flown by JG 26 that I compiled from JG 26 War Diary - lots and lots of Free Hunt missions:

 

Capture.thumb.JPG.41427cce54c444d9134c49909b7a3e52.JPG

@RyanR LukeFF is 100% accurate. The type of missions the Career generates for JG 26 are on point. However, if you referring to the location where these missions took place, that's about 50% off and it increases to 70-80% as the war progresses. JG 26 patrolled the Cologne and Aachen area mostly when I./JG 26 and II./JG 26 transitioned to the D-9s. IMHO, this needs to be tweaked in the career mode. I have a few historic single mission created and with out drop tanks, you have to manage your fuel big time.

 

That said, JG 26 for one was pulled of attacking the 8th USAAF the later part of 1944. However this didn't mean they were not called upon to attack them when all hands were needed. Also, They fought off marauding allied aircraft attacking their base of operation a lot that is not taken in account in the career mode either.

 

That said, the big missions like Operation Baseplate are OK - in the sense they are attacking airfield on Jan 1st (Just not the correct ones LOL).

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"Green Hearts - first in combat with the Dora 9"

 

I have created quite a few historically accurate missions with the D9's using the excellent historical accounts from the book "Green Hearts - first in combat with the Dora 9" by Axel Urbanke. He has faithfully collected the day to day exploits of III./JG54 and JG26 from the 15th August 1944 through to July 1945. In this book there is a wealth of historical information from the German side and many accounts from the Allied side in a particular air battle on the same day. Putting all this information together you get a very accurate account for mission making on the Bodenplatte map.

DFLion

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22 hours ago, Leifr said:

Try the PWCG, it's pretty much the best experience you'll get in BoX right now for offline play.

 

Thanks! I hear this often! I'll give it a try soon.

 

 

16 hours ago, Pinguim said:

I have noticed that in many campaigns throughout the il-2 series, it's better to select airspawns (assuming you are taxiing/taking off each mission). 

 

WOW! You are 100% correct. I'd been starting on the runway all of this time. Air starts put you halfway to target, which is a *huge* difference when flying from a rear airfield. Thanks!

 

 

17 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The mission types and frequency are based on what the real Luftwaffe fighter units were flying at this time. Outside of having airfield protection missions for III./JG 54, JG 26, and JG 27, the vast majority of missions being flown at that time were either Free Hunt missions for fighter-bombers or intercepting bombers. But, by the fall of 1944, the Luftwaffe had largely given up trying to intercept bombers with piston-engine fighters, so their efforts instead switched to combating the fighter-bombers, so that's why the majority of missions you see are Free Hunts or scrambles for fighter-bombers. That was the life of a German fighter pilot in late 1944. :) 

 

Thanks! I do like the mission types. "Free Hunts" were a rare treat in earlier campaigns. It's a whole other level in Bodenplatte when you take off with 8-9 190A-8's.... and then you run into an equal number of enemies. You can feel your brain struggling to keep track. :)

 

It looks like for now I'm going to transfer to Kommando Nowotny for a bit, just to scratch the 262 bug while I can in this campaign. Then back to D-9's. My plan has been to just get through all the campaigns and "sample" everything I can.... then I'll go back to BoM and specialize. I really love how well everything "feels" in Great Battles.

 

Thanks, All!

 

-Ryan

 

 

 

 

 

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Quick bit of closure: I switched to "air start" from "runway starts", and everything syncs up beautifully. As you get on station, you can see the cover high up, and the ground attackers circling below. At last!

 

Of course, it just takes time to settle into a plane already in the air, and I do like taking off myself, but air starts knock off 10 minutes of flying time.

 

It's fun to slide in on the deck, and pick off a few P-47's before the top cover realizes it. :)

 

Thanks, all!

 

-Ryan

 

 

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Yeah, I've started two Dora campaigns (III./ Jg 54 September 44 and III./Jg 2 December 44) and didn't continue them very far. It's pretty much exclusively intercept (though the Jg 3 campaign had some free hunt), which would be okay if I weren't intercepting the same aircraft in the same location every damn time. It's a pretty bland thing to encounter after a 200 km long slog to get front lines from way back where my bases are. Ultimately I just didn't find this very fun.

Air starts do remove some of the tedium of really long transits (protip: you'll start 10km from waypoint 2, which you can move even closer to the action in mission planning if you're the squadron leader) but it does nothing to alleviate the repetitiveness of the missions.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 3:08 PM, LukeFF said:

 

The mission types and frequency are based on what the real Luftwaffe fighter units were flying at this time. Outside of having airfield protection missions for III./JG 54, JG 26, and JG 27, the vast majority of missions being flown at that time were either Free Hunt missions for fighter-bombers or intercepting bombers. But, by the fall of 1944, the Luftwaffe had largely given up trying to intercept bombers with piston-engine fighters, so their efforts instead switched to combating the fighter-bombers, so that's why the majority of missions you see are Free Hunts or scrambles for fighter-bombers. That was the life of a German fighter pilot in late 1944. :) 

 

I get that a lot of this is historically accurate, but a part of me misses how career was in like the summer of 2018. I remember doing two stalingrad careers with the 109 and 190 respectively where I was doing a huge variety of missions. Over the course of one in-game week I'd have done free hunts, interceptions, escorts, convoy attacks, bridge attacks, artillery battery attacks. Those same careers now pretty strictly just produce escort/intercept missions. The old way may have been less historically accurate but boy was it fun.

 

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On 4/1/2021 at 7:57 AM, percydanvers said:

Yeah, I've started two Dora campaigns (III./ Jg 54 September 44 and III./Jg 2 December 44) and didn't continue them very far. It's pretty much exclusively intercept (though the Jg 3 campaign had some free hunt), which would be okay if I weren't intercepting the same aircraft in the same location every damn time. It's a pretty bland thing to encounter after a 200 km long slog to get front lines from way back where my bases are. Ultimately I just didn't find this very fun.

 

 

This is the main reason I don't continue a 190D career, either. Not that I mind repetition, but the somewhat long flight annoys me.

 

To answer the OP: no, I never had your problem, because I always did air starts. Glad you found a workaround, though.

 

Last night, I did have a problem I've never encountered before, though: invulnerable enemies:

 

20210401230923_1.thumb.jpg.f332442f21ee2568823a14f9e4abc49a.jpg

 

Zero damage to target above. And it's not like damage is being done, but just not showing up visually. These strikes are 100% fatal, yet the planes fly on.

 

20210401231413_1.thumb.jpg.3512dce10f051c7dc8e22368e29b21d8.jpg

 

I caused this one to maneuver-crash while it was on a landing approach. It went through the trees, and suffered zero damage. And it's floating. And its prop is invincible.

 

Another problem I've infrequently noticed is AI Spitfires suffering engine failure for no discernible reason, usually at high altitudes:

20210401230437_1.thumb.jpg.f14164d72cc70155136e933860097e11.jpg

 

This was the same sortie as the invincible P-47s. Another Spit suffered the same failure. Oddly, I was able to shoot down one P-47, got the 'mission success' alert, and only after that did everything became invincible. So it's some kind of... mission triggering issue if I had to guess. And so far this has only happened to me in Bodenplatte. Once before, I saw some strange behavior similar to the floating P-47; but I'd never shot at planes that proved to be invincible until this instance.

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On 4/1/2021 at 7:57 AM, percydanvers said:

Yeah, I've started two Dora campaigns (III./ Jg 54 September 44 and III./Jg 2 December 44) and didn't continue them very far. It's pretty much exclusively intercept (though the Jg 3 campaign had some free hunt), which would be okay if I weren't intercepting the same aircraft in the same location every damn time. It's a pretty bland thing to encounter after a 200 km long slog to get front lines from way back where my bases are. Ultimately I just didn't find this very fun.

Air starts do remove some of the tedium of really long transits (protip: you'll start 10km from waypoint 2, which you can move even closer to the action in mission planning if you're the squadron leader) but it does nothing to alleviate the repetitiveness of the missions.

 

 

I get that a lot of this is historically accurate, but a part of me misses how career was in like the summer of 2018. I remember doing two stalingrad careers with the 109 and 190 respectively where I was doing a huge variety of missions. Over the course of one in-game week I'd have done free hunts, interceptions, escorts, convoy attacks, bridge attacks, artillery battery attacks. Those same careers now pretty strictly just produce escort/intercept missions. The old way may have been less historically accurate but boy was it fun.

 

Well, there's 2 things I can suggest if you want more variety (i.e., ground attack missions) either transfer to SG 4, which is a ground attack formation but with the Allies buzzing around you'll see plenty of fighters, or start a career in the last phase of the battle, where German fighter units fly ground attack missions in addition to intercepts and free hunts in March 1945. 

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Well, there's 2 things I can suggest if you want more variety (i.e., ground attack missions) either transfer to SG 4, which is a ground attack formation but with the Allies buzzing around you'll see plenty of fighters, or start a career in the last phase of the battle, where German fighter units fly ground attack missions in addition to intercepts and free hunts in March 1945. 


Hmmm I didn't realize March 45 had those missions. I might try that. I've been meaning to do an SG 4 career with Bodenplatte in any case. I used to hate the schlachtgeschwader careers but I eventually realized you can just not take bombs and fly as an "escort" for the ground attackers so that you end up having a fighter career with a little more variety. 

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