Jump to content

Simshaker Wings is as immersive and important as VR...You can't go back! Have the advantage in a dogfight!


Recommended Posts

Hi friends,

I have always been a proponent of SimShaker. I've used it since it's inception on other sims. I CANNOT fly without it just as much as I can't fly without VR. For years, I pushed hard for it to be implemented here on IL2. This will increase your Kill ratio and your level of immersion/fun.

 

As a real world warbird pilot, I have felt and feel on a regular basis the "G" feel and the connection to an aircraft during maneuvering flight, pre and post stall. Engine rumble, gear, flaps, etc. I have used "Full motion sims for work and home based motion simulations for fun and while I think that is great for low angle(Pitch and roll) Immersion is immediately broken for me when flying past a point where the "G" doesn't correlate to real life I.E. Aerobatics. The full motion sim can't simulate flight in those regimes. You go inverted and you fall out of your seat or you are layed over on your side. This isn't how flying feels for the most part although ANY additional sensory cues is helpful. If you've flown aerobatics, most maneuvers are positive "G", especially in a WW2 fighter. On a few occasions, I have put a current fighter pilot in my sim rig and about an hour later his beer is still sitting there full and he is telling me how he can "FEEL" the "G". His mind knows what to correlate to "G" and other cues so the connection is made and he is in deep immersion. SimShaker simulates G and AoA so during a dogfight or aerobatics, you can feel where you are as far as AoA or speed. It's a real advantage during a dogfight especially when you are down to the ragged edge of energy it gives you an advantage over some guy who can only judge stick position, aural cues to determine the "feel" of where his aircraft is. Flying is all about AoA and "G". When you are talking extremes, these cues will "Connect" you with your aircraft. Without the vibratory feedback, you are basically using stick position and some visual cues to "guess" AoA. The SimShaker software gives your aircraft life and I am drawn into the simulated environment as much as I was when I went to VR from a flats screen monitor. The software doesn't "Break" immersion when flying VR as compared to a motion rig. That's from someone who does aerobatics a couple times per week. If you have never then it's most likely that you wont feel the break in immersion as I.

 

To conclude, I highly recommend you upgrade to this level of simulation. Once you install the software you can "try before you buy". It takes just a little extra time to add an entry into your IL2 files and you are off to the races. You will increase your immersion (FUN) and kill ratio quickly!

WW

I use 2 transducers(LFE and amp, Buttkicker simulation kit)

 

https://vr4dcs.com/2019/08/10/pgss-pretty-good-seat-shaker-diy/

https://andres.shop/12-jetpad-jetseat

https://thebuttkicker.com/all-products/kits/

 

Edited by AGVoodoo5
spelling
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I use the JetPad and SimShaker Wings software and its great!  You don't need the Buttkicker if you don't want it; I don't use it.  I use VR and also a force feedback joystick (MSFF2), together with haptic feedback earphones and it all provides a very immersive flight sim experience.

 

Nice post AGVoodoo5 :)

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Link to post
Share on other sites

Really enjoying my Buttkicker now hooked up to IL2 with Simshaker. I agree it adds another layer of immersion, and makes you feel the edge better in a high G turn or right before you are about to stall.

 

If I forget to turn it on, the game feels lifeless without it now. I have to fly with it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2021 at 9:53 AM, AGVoodoo5 said:

As a real world warbird pilot, I have felt and feel on a regular basis the "G" feel and the connection to an aircraft during maneuvering flight, pre and post stall. Engine rumble, gear, flaps, etc.

 

Based on your background/experience actually flying similar aircraft, I would love to see a screenshot of your SimShaker settings.  I agree that Andre and the team have added another fantastic step in immersion (for me, second only to VR), so I am interested in how your settings compare to what I am currently using since I am 36 years past feeling the real thing. :salute:

 

With that thought in mind, I wonder if @SCG_motoadve would mind sharing a screenshot of his settings here too?

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SCG_Tzigy said:

one buttkicker on the stick one ont he chair stem

 

Thanks Tzigy - I have literally this same physical setup on my Wheelstand Pro with the Buttkickers (but with an added Jetseat) and LOVE it.  But, I was actually trying to see the actual settings screen that @AGVoodoo5 and @SCG_motoadve are using in their Simshaker software.  It would be great if you would share yours too.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

It would be great if you would share yours too

lol, i realized that only after posting my pic..

will do when get home! :)

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/22/2021 at 8:56 PM, DragonDaddy said:

ACG-Talisman: What haptic feedback headphones are you using? 

You probably would not want them even if you could get them as they are very old and I don't think they are made any more, but I have eDimensional AudioFX2.  I think that better more modern headsets are available these days.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are my current settings...I am especially interested to see what others are using for the G-Force settings (I turned mine off a while back because I didn't want to confuse that with a stall, but that was when I was just starting to use the software):

 

image.thumb.png.e3f4b75f81b0f0d549af6ff3e95cd526.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi , unfortunate for me , i still not have the jetseat, but i made a pair of bass shakers ( tactile transducers ) mount them in my chair and voila! , I feel the ground bumps, cockpit vibration, firing the weapons, G force , etc..

 

I simply cant fly in vr without this program.

 

S!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the OP, cannot fly without SimShaker anymore (also a real warbird pilot here) specially  I like the AoA feel, its great, it gives you feedback as a real plane gives you feedback.

Engine rumble, hits, flaps etc, makes the simulation a lot more immersive specially in VR.

The G forces in Simshaker I toned them down quite a bit, they do help for sure and gives you an advantage, but in real life your plane is not shaking when you are pulling high Gs, on the other hand I think its impossible to simulate G forces on a home simulator, so at least we have some sort of feedback.

 

I am out of the country until mid April, when I return, I will post my sim shaker settings.

I have two Buttkickers, one to the Joystick and one to the seat, the one to the joystick its on the base , and its also connected to the throttle via a piece of steel touching both, so I get some vibration in the throttle too.  

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/25/2021 at 8:53 AM, SCG_motoadve said:

The G forces in Simshaker I toned them down quite a bit, they do help for sure and gives you an advantage, but in real life your plane is not shaking when you are pulling high Gs, on the other hand I think its impossible to simulate G forces on a home simulator, so at least we have some sort of feedback.

 

Thanks for that insight...I will have to experiment with that setting some more.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 8:53 AM, SCG_motoadve said:

I have two Buttkickers, one to the Joystick and one to the seat, the one to the joystick its on the base , and its also connected to the throttle via a piece of steel touching both, so I get some vibration in the throttle too.  

 

That is one nice thing about the Wheelstand Pro with the mounting like @SCG_Tzigy posted above and that I have.  The vibration carries through the entire set of controls (pedals, joystick, and throttle) with just one Buttkicker mounted toward the center (I have mine mounted between the pedals and the joystick, but I don't think it really matters where you put it because it is one assembly for all the controls).

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2021 at 3:59 PM, ACG_Talisman said:

You probably would not want them even if you could get them as they are very old and I don't think they are made any more, but I have eDimensional AudioFX2.  I think that better more modern headsets are available these days.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Thanks. I also have a very old pair but can’t find drivers for them. Looked at some newer ones but the prices are pretty crazy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a Warbird pilot, but fly in the backcountry with taildraggers on skis and floats. VR + Simshaker is the winning ticket. I did a DIY setup on my chair with a BST1 and 2x  TT25's for a stereo setup mounted under my chair. Cheap Lepy 2020 amp. It's a game changer feeling the stall buffeting and riding the edge. The odd time I'll forget to turn the amp on and the whole world feels "dead" when the prop spins and I don't feel the engine's rumble. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool seeing some real pilots chime in here and say this is a difference maker. I agree. 

 

I've done that same thing before Syphen...and I have to relaunch the game because it feels dead to me you're right.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep I agree guys. I won't fly a sim other than for a few minutes that doesn't incorporate Sim Shaker. I felt the same with the advent of VR. It's a lifeless experience.

 

Back in 1995, a family friend developed a VR headset ( I think they may have been glasses or goggles) and a really cool and very smooth running VR sim that he was trying to sell to the Blue Angels for practice. It was graphically simple but very immersive. This guy was a part of another sim development company that did some cool stuff on the PC. Since that day he let me fly it, I have longed for the VR experience. It took 20 years to dump the flat screen experience. Imagine when we get the gloves dialed in and fans to blow air on your face when you look out of the left and right side of the canopy(SimShaker has already a proof of concept on this. Let Andrei know if interested)...what's next?

I believe that GA flying will evolve into something unachievable and so limited for the average person that VR in whatever form it evolves will be the outlet for the aviation community. We are so close to that now, sad but true. Let's continue to help evolve this wonderful experience with the hope of continuing the tradition of aviation!

WW

start.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have some questions about how this works. With the Butt Kicker (or similar device), how does that work with my existing sound outputs? I have a sound bar on USB, and when I'm in VR it uses the video card plus USB obviously.

Also, I assume that I would have a wire permanently attached to my chair? That may be a difficult sell for me, if true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/1/2021 at 2:22 PM, unlikely_spider said:

So I have some questions about how this works. With the Butt Kicker (or similar device), how does that work with my existing sound outputs? I have a sound bar on USB, and when I'm in VR it uses the video card plus USB obviously.

Also, I assume that I would have a wire permanently attached to my chair? That may be a difficult sell for me, if true.

 

There is different ways to do it. You can use a premade device like Butt Kicker which can be attached or removed from your chair. Or a Jetpad that sits ontop of your chair, and can be removed. I personally have a dedicated sim chair so I hard mounted bass transducers to it and just run a 3.5mm audio cord and 120vAC cord when I am going to sim. They are removed when I am not simming so the chair doesn't present an office trip hazard. 

 

Most people I know use a USB Audio device / DAC / External soundcard. They are cheap, $15-20. Within the Simshaker software, you can pick which audio device the audio is played to. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, =420=Syphen said:

 

There is different ways to do it. You can use a premade device like Butt Kicker which can be attached or removed from your chair. Or a Jetpad that sits ontop of your chair, and can be removed. I personally have a dedicated sim chair so I hard mounted bass transducers to it and just run a 3.5mm audio cord and 120vAC cord when I am going to sim. They are removed when I am not simming so the chair doesn't present an office trip hazard. 

 

Most people I know use a USB Audio device / DAC / External soundcard. They are cheap, $15-20. Within the Simshaker software, you can pick which audio device the audio is played to. 

Thanks for the info. I see something like this ButtKicker Simulation Kit:

https://thebuttkicker.com/bk-sk/

The transducer does not seem to have an easily-removable wire, unfortunately. As for the amp, and/or the external device you mention (I assume they play the same role) - they do not take over the audio output from the existing audio device? Meaning - there is no issue with supplying the amplifier as well as the normal audio (speakers, VR headset, etc) with the normal audio output simultaneously? I thought that Windows chooses one device at a time with which to output audio?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm using a DIY setup so I can't really speak for Buttkicker.  I don't know how they do it.    

 

The Simshaker software specifically avoids what Windows is doing and outputs on the audio device you choose.  I use a USB DAC for my normal headphone audio and feed my Bass transducers with my motherboards sound device.  Once the VR goes on, Windows changes from my USB DAC to the VR HMD audio but Simshaker keeps outputting on the motherboard audio device.  It's a slick setup. 

Edited by =420=Syphen
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2021 at 7:53 AM, AGVoodoo5 said:

Flying is all about AoA and "G". When you are talking extremes, these cues will "Connect" you with your aircraft. Without the vibratory feedback, you are basically using stick position and some visual cues to "guess" AoA

Hello @AGVoodoo5it is very interesting what you say about stick position, I don’t think this work in IL2, because in real life when you are low on speed, the displacement of the stick is longer than in high speed. In IL2 is the other way around at low speed you have to displace it very little to not stall and in high speed move the stick a lot to move the plane, I think that the are simulating the forces in the stick. For real pilots this is counter intuitive. I hope there will be an option in the future where this can be simulated with a force feedback joystick. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...