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Is there a secret to decals that cross the edges of skin lines?


J5_Cremer
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J5_Cremer

I am trying my hand at Otto Kissenberth's J23b skin for the Albatros DVa. The edelweiss should cover the side of the craft, and poke a bit above and below as well.  I am struggling to get the flower pars to line up correctly.  Other than trial and error (and error and error and error and error), is there a trick to getting these things to line up right?

 

Also, is there a quicker way to view the skin on a craft that doesn't involve loading the game?

messed up large decals.jpg

Edited by RFC_Maqui
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RNAS10_Oliver

There should be a layer in the template named something like "wireframe" that can aid you in lining up parts of the skin but yes otherwise its kind of trial and error as far as am aware. As for the second question, in your games program files under \bin\viewer there is a program named Viewer. This enabled you to view skins without starting the game. You do however continue to need to save the skin each time to view changes and also using the "refresh scene" and "load skin" each time. Another point I should make about the viewer is that you cannot see how the skin appears when certain modifications are in use, so its good to check the skin over in game afterwards to ensure that any modifications do not impact the look of the skin negatively.

 

image.thumb.png.926d776764183170b3d96dd9930db7c0.png

 

Edited by Oliver88
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Oliver88 nailed it. The wireframe layer on the template really helps locating the specific line that you're trying to cross. I'll often render a test skin with the wireframe so that I can see the wireframe on the model to help tweak it. Using the Viewer program helps reduce the time to reload the game and look at a skin again, so that reduces the time between trials to find the errors. Like Oliver88 said, use "refresh scene" and then select the skin again to view the changes. This made a huge difference when trying to get shapes that cross over lines on the skin. That's how I dialed in the camo I made for my personal spad, which has some blobs of color that cross the lines on the fuselage.

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J5_Cremer

Awesome!  I found the wifeframe layer, and that will definitely help.  Can I assume that the edges of the different elements are where the green lines are?  

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J5_Cremer

image.thumb.png.ebe1f9cb58531132402ad9438001f492.pngThank

Thank you all.  The wire frame seemed to help get things lined up quite a lot.  I don't know if the flower art is up to gaming snuff, but I'm pleased that it reaches above and below onto the different plane sections pretty nicely (at least on this side, at least).

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J5_Cremer

Ugh.  There appears to be an error in the Albatros model on one side.  No wonder I couldn't get the parts to line up.

image.png.433c8a703f92ae061753034f8d046968.png

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J5_Cremer

Sorry for flooding the board here.    I found that by pulling the top section down a bit, and by filling in the gaps with the appropriate colors, I seem to have gotten around this bug.  It is annoying, as I was essentially hoping to mirror the left and right sides of the plane.  This took longer, but it is getting there. Still a bit of cleaning up to do on this skin, but clearly I am making progress.  Thank you all!

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Missionbug

Personally I would post the above image in the 3d faults threads, maybe the original modeller can fix that for you, it needs work on the 3d side.  Other than that then continue as you have started, however, it might never quite look right no matter how much you push or pull the colours over the problem areas.;)

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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RNAS10_Oliver

Think I’ve seen that before on here. Having trouble finding it in the search though. Rather than error in the model might just be an issue with the wireframe layer in the template.

Edited by Oliver88
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Missionbug
10 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 Rather than error in the model might just be an issue with the wireframe layer in the template.

 

The wireframe is the model, it is what we use to assemble the skin, it reflects any problems on the 3d model because it is made from that 3d model.;)

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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RNAS10_Oliver
1 hour ago, Missionbug said:

 

The wireframe is the model, it is what we use to assemble the skin, it reflects any problems on the 3d model because it is made from that 3d model.;)

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:


The wireframe layer is just a raster layer made at one point in time based upon the uv mapping. The uv mapping determines what parts on the image are used on what parts of the model. 😉

 

If the model was updated and/or the uv mapping along with it but the wireframe layer was not updated there there would be a mismatch like it seems there is here.

 

There are plenty of places in other templates where the wireframe is lacking or misaligned for example the wooden beam In the Camels wing cutout and IIRC the pitot tube. The answer with them is not to fix the model in each one (and doing uv mapping again and then doing the wireframe layer again) but to sort the wireframe layer (rebuild from uv map or just edit the layer).

 

I’ve not too much experience with 3D modelling for games, I attempted some in Arma3 years ago and had gotten to the stage of something textured and working in game. Nothing special or worth sharing about though. The skins I’ve done here are the best thing I’ve ever made in a game I think everything else was rubbish. 😆

 

Sure I could be wrong but problem with the wireframe layer seems the first place and easy answer to me.

Edited by Oliver88
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J5_Gamecock

I would suggest searching through past posts by J5_Rumey and/or The Dude. The issue on the starboard side of the Alb. has come up before. Seems like I recall one of them coming up with a fix or work around for it.

 

 

  Found it!...

 

Edited by J5_Gamecock
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J5_Cremer
1 hour ago, the_dudeWG said:

@RFC_MaquiGood luck, mate! This is the reason I didn't want to tackle this one!

 

 

I'll just have to make sure that everyone attacks me from the port side, rather than the starboard side!

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VBF-12_Stick-95

Another helpful tool is Panelfinder.  Place this as a layer at the top of the template and generate a dds.  You can then pull up the plane in Skin Viewer to ID any part by color/number to correlate it to where it is in the template.  I use this in conjunction with the wireframe.

 

Link:  https://www.mediafire.com/view/8g8y1guu4185vjl/Panel_Finder_by_Tom_2_4096x4096.jpg/file

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Missionbug
11 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 

If the model was updated and/or the uv mapping along with it but the wireframe layer was not updated there there would be a mismatch like it seems there is here.

 

 

True enough, but you know very well what I was trying to point out, however, what I said still stands, this shows the mapping of the model at some stage and the fact the model itself still shows the problem when the skin is applied would seem to indicate it was not fixed, if it had been this new skin should be okay but is not hence the reason for the thread.;)

 

There are work arounds as most skinners know because many models including mine have some kind of defects but I always try to sort out the model itself if a problem area is pointed out to me, dealing with it on the model and updating is the best solution although not always possible to completely illiminate but if the team are aware of it maybe something will get done, hence why I suggested it be put in the appropriate bug thread.

 

Anyway, if this model came from R.O.F. then it has been around for a very long time, is this issue from the original model or has it come about because of the updates for F.C., maybe the original modeller or the development team could shed some light on the issue or indeed fix it.

 

Superb skin choice by the way, sorry, forgot to say.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

Edited by Missionbug
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The D5 was one of the better ones in ROF. Sadly the 'improvements' undertaken by the design team responsible for bringing the crates into FC are anything but. The new D5 template is a horror show. The error depicted here is one of many on the model. 

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  • 6 months later...
PaulTheSalty
On 3/15/2021 at 4:13 PM, RNAS10_Oliver said:

Another point I should make about the viewer is that you cannot see how the skin appears when certain modifications are in use, so its good to check the skin over in game afterwards to ensure that any modifications do not impact the look of the skin negatively

Any more insight into this? Specific things that have been problematic in the past? I've been getting more into skinning and I'd appreciate any information that helps improve my craft!

 

I had not considered checking modifications before, but so far I haven't seen any issues in game. I'll be on the lookout for that from now on though, thanks!

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RNAS10_Oliver
10 hours ago, PaulTheSalty said:

Any more insight into this? Specific things that have been problematic in the past? I've been getting more into skinning and I'd appreciate any information that helps improve my craft!

 

I had not considered checking modifications before, but so far I haven't seen any issues in game. I'll be on the lookout for that from now on though, thanks!

 

Just that sometimes your using the same texture that gets applied onto the model in a different manner (shape, size, position, whatever) depending on the modifications in use. It's probably not often going to be an issue but just something to check in case that puts a spanner in your plans or make something look undesirable to you.

 

Here's something on the Camel that I've just knocked up as an example. So you've made this white green purple stripe design on your centre section. And decide to paint the inside wall of the cut-out the same colour as the surrounding stripe. And the results are just what you wanted when you check out the skin in the viewer. But then you check in game using the extended cut-out and the inside wall is no longer in the area of the purple stripe but now the green stripe.

 

image.png.93cc968748cf5c5f726a8d3cbc5637d8.png

image.png.2055c85ca7b290875bef292ac0225b60.png

 

Here's another example that I came across when making sc_RNAS, 10 Sqn, Mellings, N6376, Mar18, PC10. I made the centre section design. And that looked great in viewer and in game to start with. I uploaded this skin for the community but then later noticed that when taking the extended cut-out in game that the tip of the white outline remained visible poking out there pointlessly. I sorted that out (though flattening the curve) and reuploaded to the community. But had I checked the skin out in game when other modifications are in use then I would have noticed this sooner and saved me and the those who want to download the skin some bother.

 

image.png.768f7b0d387887ced92b06c4373483a7.png

image.png.95be9535c60c906d7118552c007d807c.png

Edited by RNAS10_Oliver
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PaulTheSalty

Got it, thanks again! I’ll be sure to give all mods a good look in game prior to uploading.

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