SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 24 December, Engst was shot-down and wounded in aerial combat near Hersfeld whilst flying Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 682 181) “Yellow 2”. Engst was awarded the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold sometime in 1945. He flew combat sorties to the end of war.According Wolfgang Engst (son of Hubert Engst) he achieved about 20 victories over four-engine bombers and one Mosquito. All his victories were recorded over the Western front. Engst himself was shot down four times. https://www.mediafire.com/file/orawxx03crmo74m/FW190a8+4k+winter+bg+yellow+2+6.JG300++v10.dds/file 16 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 I thought I would also include a less stylized version more inline with Claes Sundin's brilliant profile. https://www.mediafire.com/file/tyrpwgozi4gjxna/FW190a8+4k+winter+bg+yellow+2+6.JG300+sundin+v2.dds/file 12 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CUJO_1970 1904 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Holy Farkin Schlitz! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Raptorattacker 2597 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Nice job Flowbee!! Rap 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JG300_Winterz 132 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Nice (obviously) 👍😄 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Madcop 114 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 2 hours ago, SR603-Flowbee said: I thought I would also include a less stylized version more inline with Claes Sundin's brilliant profile. https://www.mediafire.com/file/tyrpwgozi4gjxna/FW190a8+4k+winter+bg+yellow+2+6.JG300+sundin+v2.dds/file Hi Flowbee This one is a nice one indeed but... is there any special reason for this kind of RV band ( upper and lower fuselage) or did you just let your artist soul talk ? Could you please give us a version with a complete wrap around RV band, and , if possible a more " traditional faded" wing's camo patern with simplified crosses. These were maybe well worn but not dirty (Schwarzmänner also had their pride, and if not there was always someone to remind them! ) Such filthy wings impacted the speed of the plane ... and do not forget that at that stage of the conflict aircrafts didn't last that long enough to get so dirty... I am asking you that because this very scheme is one of my favourite, so , pleeeeeeeez 😉 I do not know who did the scale model but it looks pretty gorgeous....kuddos to him. Madcop 1 Link to post Share on other sites
esk_pedja 224 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I agree with Madcop, As graphical achievement it is a pure art... but where all that rust comes from ? It seems as fuselage was discovered in some Eastern swamp or bush in 1947... or Japanese plane left on tropical rainforest 3-4 years... Congratulations for the art dimension. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RaFiGer 463 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) @Flowbee You're weathering is fantastic and looks really good, but historical the planes mostly was in better shape as you present them. German's are curios, because even near the end you find planes that was painted quite good and provisorical paint eg. and the additional paint armour using primer was common with the field units. If you go historical with later FW-190 models use the right marking on the wings (white outline cross) and comouflage in RLM standart. I have a lot of good books covering the JG in the Reichsverteidigung togehter with nearly all available ld and new painting guides , so additional paint on field was applied over standart camouflage Thank anyways for these interpretation, they are look awful good The photo showed the plane with the former red RVB as you can see in my attached scan: Spoiler Edited March 3 by RaFiGer Historial additions 3 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingShark 377 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Wonderful, both. Thank you. Have a nice day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RaFiGer 463 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) @Flowbee There is a fantastic plane for your paint style and you should give it a try, the plane of Paul Lixfeld Fw-190 A8/R32 "Muschi" 6./JG 300! See the Spoiler Spoiler Edited March 3 by RaFiGer 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 (edited) Lots of critical feedback which is useful. Let me to through it. First of all I spend a lot of my time looking at photos so I'm not completely clueless. So the first point is the over painted RV band. This is quite common and there are a huge amount of photos and artist impressions showing this. Look again closely at the photo I can see quite clearly that the band has been overpainted and is virtually obscured. That is deliberate. Same goes for the wing pattern, I've seen hundreds of photos showing all sorts of paint splashing. I'm looking to do something interesting and different. Now for the dirt. There are not only period photos which are hard to decipher but actual original colour photos showing how incredibly dirty the German aircraft were. This is hardly surprising considering they were flying from muddy fields especially in the winter and spring months. Again this has been discussed at length. Also I'm a great fan of Claes Sundin's work and have some of his books. He uses heavy weathering and I will continue to work on improving my weathering. I have done some clean and shiny skins but I always find them disappointing and dare I say boring in the long run. If you want clean skins there are many skinners doing just that. The reason I started skinning was because I dislike clean and shiny skins. There is no rust on the plane just dirt in the crevices. Aluminium does not rust. Maybe it is a monitor calibration issue. The wing crosses were plain white outlines and then got changed. I'm not sure whether this was an error or if I changed them at a later time after seeing another picture. Either way if I do an update I will change that. To sum up, I do skins for my pleasure then share them in the hope that others will share that pleasure. There is no way that I'm doing stuff I believe to be not only uninteresting but also wrong in that it goes against what I have found in a lifetime of looking at pictures. A friend of mine who is an actual aviation artist is always encouraging me to do more weathering not less so I'm with him on that topic. I am always keen to fix mistakes but when it comes to my fundamental approach that isn't going to change as it comes down to personal preference. I hope that covers it as I have no intention of justifying every skin I put out. One other thought, to both esk_pedja and RaFiGer, you do skins so why are you telling me how to do mine? Just do the skins you want to have. I wouldn't pitch up in your threads (or anyone elses) telling you how to do your skins even if I didn't like them I would just look elsewhere. It seems odd to be getting so much critical attention outwith the actually welcome error spotting or equally welcoming ideas for new skins. Edited March 3 by SR603-Flowbee 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, RaFiGer said: @Flowbee You're weathering is fantastic and looks really good, but historical the planes mostly was in better shape as you present them. German's are curios, because even near the end you find planes that was painted quite good and provisorical paint eg. and the additional paint armour using primer was common with the field units. If you go historical with later FW-190 models use the right marking on the wings (white outline cross) and comouflage in RLM standart. I have a lot of good books covering the JG in the Reichsverteidigung togehter with nearly all available ld and new painting guides , so additional paint on field was applied over standart camouflage Thank anyways for these interpretation, they are look awful good The photo showed the plane with the former red RVB as you can see in my attached scan: Reveal hidden contents Thanks for the pics as they clarify the band in the black and white photo. However the author has also made a mistake so I'm not alone. The red RV band belongs to 5./JG300. And the W.Nr. is wrong? In June 1944, Engst was transferred to 6./JG 300. On 24 August 1944, he attacked a formation of USAAF B-24 four-engine bombers over the Neuhaus region (Jindrichuv Hradec area) of Bohemia. Engst shot down one B-24 to record his sixth victory, but his Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 681 361) “Yellow 7” was damaged by return fire and he was badly wounded. On 24 December, Engst was shot-down and wounded in aerial combat near Hersfeld whilst flying Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 682 181) “Yellow 2”. To be honest I'm more interested in making interesting looking aircraft than checking numbers so thanks for the photos which give another version of the camo pattern. Actually I'm still confused with regards to the red band as in b/w the band would look almost black which it clearly does not. It looks like over painted yellow or white? Edited March 3 by SR603-Flowbee 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Madcop 114 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Hello Flowbee Let's stay calm, will you. My only goal was to point out some contradictions between the photo of H. Engst's plane, the profile Claes Sundin made of it and your rendering. First of all, in the photo it is not a tricolor RV band that has been erased or repainted, but simply the original red RV band. The Blue-White-Blue one replaced it later. This band (full or tricolor) was complete and not shifted in its lower part as you represented it on your skin (technical or voluntary error?, I don't know). In this regard the profile of Claes Sundin is great .. as well as the model and the profiles attached by Rafiger. Now, if you want to make a Fw 109A-8 painted in pink and fuchsia found on a muddy scrap heap in 1948, I don't care, it's your strictest right, like it or not, but then don't put with reference to photos and a profile of Hubert Engst's plane. We can spend as much time as we want looking at photos ... the important thing is to know what to look at and how ... Without any animosity. Madcop. 😉 Link to post Share on other sites
Raptorattacker 2597 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) Personally I'm totally with Flowbee. Take my A3, for example!! It's Monday and I'm happy. I think personally that both sides have valid points. However, the Skinner is the individual who puts his own interpretation onto his work(s) and therefore it's kind of a case of 'what you see is what you get'. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with discussion of the subject (as in this case) but we have to respect that it can seem like 'criticism' of sorts when there are several people all commenting on 'alternate' interpretations of a particular representation... The written word must be used very carefully! Just my two bob's worth... Rap Edited March 3 by Raptorattacker 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 The reason I put up reference pictures is to show how a black and white image can be interpreted in many ways by different people including myself. I can do this without needing your permission or approval. There is no particular wrong or right just various interpretations. My advice is that you look elsewhere as clearly you strongly dislike my efforts. I'm not quite sure what exactly your problem is other than wanting me to do what you want. You say I can paint in, "pink and fuchsia found on a muddy scrap heap in 1948", but not include history or other images alongside my skins. Nuts! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 (edited) 4 hours ago, RaFiGer said: @Flowbee There is a fantastic plane for your paint style and you should give it a try, the plane of Paul Lixfeld Fw-190 A8/R32 "Muschi" 6./JG 300! See the Spoiler Hide contents I did a version of this aircraft over a year ago but never posted it. It was done for a friend who supplied the picture of the aircraft he wanted (not the one above), as you can see it is based on a different profile (probably Claes Sundin?). Either way it is dirty as my friend wanted it that way and another example of what I like to do. It is what it is. https://www.mediafire.com/file/fhxjcs2wn7a3dq7/fw190a8_Uffz._Paul_Lixfeldt_v12.dds/file Edited March 3 by SR603-Flowbee 11 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites
easterling77 88 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, SR603-Flowbee said: I did a version of this aircraft over a year ago but never posted it. It was done for a friend who supplied the picture of the aircraft he wanted, as you can see it is based on a different profile (probably Claes Sundin?). Either way it is dirty as my friend wanted it that way and another example of what I like to do. It is what it is. https://www.mediafire.com/file/fhxjcs2wn7a3dq7/fw190a8_Uffz._Paul_Lixfeldt_v12.dds/file Just gettin' up with a cup of coffe...seeing this...good start for the day😁 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RaFiGer 463 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, SR603-Flowbee said: Thanks for the pics as they clarify the band in the black and white photo. However the author has also made a mistake so I'm not alone. The red RV band belongs to 5./JG300. And the W.Nr. is wrong? In June 1944, Engst was transferred to 6./JG 300. On 24 August 1944, he attacked a formation of USAAF B-24 four-engine bombers over the Neuhaus region (Jindrichuv Hradec area) of Bohemia. Engst shot down one B-24 to record his sixth victory, but his Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 681 361) “Yellow 7” was damaged by return fire and he was badly wounded. On 24 December, Engst was shot-down and wounded in aerial combat near Hersfeld whilst flying Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 682 181) “Yellow 2”. To be honest I'm more interested in making interesting looking aircraft than checking numbers so thanks for the photos which give another version of the camo pattern. Actually I'm still confused with regards to the red band as in b/w the band would look almost black which it clearly does not. It looks like over painted yellow or white? @Flowbee Yes, you have a good point with the darker looking red band. In the spoiler you see another photo looking simmilar light and not dark. I have also included a photo of "Yellow 2" showing the blue-white-blue RVB and the W.Nr. 682 181 is correct and valid for either the plane sporting the red band in November 1944 and later the blue-white-blue on December 24th, 1944, Engst used the same plane. So you are right in anyway showing "red" od "blue-white-blue" Spoiler 3 Link to post Share on other sites
galoub 7 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Hello All i can say is : keep on bringing us such beautiful skins please ! you don't have to proove anything or change anything, your work is amazing and much appreciated ! thank you so much ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 (edited) I've run out of likes for the day but thanks for the support and for the really useful photos that help to clear things up. Changing band colours in December - no wonder I get confused. Now that I've seen a photo of the new blue white band clearly painted I can change it in seconds as with the wing crosses which is as taxing as a check box. Just don't ask for a clean up. Edited March 3 by SR603-Flowbee 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Danziger 2572 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I can't wait to see your style applied to Japanese planes when we finally get to the Pacific! It doesn't matter what you do or change, there will always be someone to complain about it or nitpick some detail. I think a lot of people would be much happier if they just stepped back and realised that this is a video game and not real life. We aren't painting actual planes. We are just coloring pixels wrapped on a digital model. It will never be exactly like real life. There are always people who have no problem trying to school skinners on how a skin should look even though they are too lazy to learn how to make skins. If you want to do it better, do it yourself! That is how I learned to make skins and little mods. It is not difficult to learn, it just takes practice and time developing the skills. If they would spend half the time learning gimp or photoshop that they do arguing about dirty a plane should be or what time of day the Germans repainted three quarters of the fleet with a slightly different shade, they could be making their own skins as perfect as they want them to be. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
esk_pedja 224 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Even after 50 years of being sunk in salty water, German markings and cammo are still well preserved... ( contrary to Japanese paint quality that was dropping off like a rotten apple... ) aside from mud, dirt, shells, sea crust...etc. I would be very cautious with chunks of paint dropping off from plane just because somebody made plastic kit that way... ( exposed parts of canopy area / edges... are something else, more slightly scratched or worn ) 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 Just now, Danziger said: If you want to do it better, do it yourself! That is how I learned to make skins and little mods. Totally, that's exactly how I got started. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
esk_pedja 224 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 23 hours ago, Danziger said: If you want to do it better, do it yourself! That is how I learned to make skins... Agree with Dazinger, ...already modifying to my preferences, nose, a bit wings and numbers (and whole bottom) : Spoiler Edited March 4 by SYN_Haashashin Swatikas always under spoiler or don’t show them Link to post Share on other sites
SMARTAZZ 168 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) SR603-FLOWBEE is the artists and the artist can paint what ever and how ever they choose along with any other skinner. AS WAS POINTED OUT, I SHOULD START WITH ( "IN MY OPINION" )It seems very ungracious(" RUDE ") to criticize the work someone has done gratis. To make something unique and interesting is most likely their goal , non-historical skins are all over the place and using them is a personal choice so why not allow some artistic freedom from the author.🤥 My thanks to all the artists on here but if I don't like the skin because they didn't make it the way I want I move on without bashing the effort. If FLOWBEE wants to make a dirty bird then SR603-FLOWBEE carry on 🤓 Edited March 3 by SMARTAZZ added thought 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
esk_pedja 224 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) 27 minutes ago, SMARTAZZ said: It seems very ungracious to criticize the work being done. SMARTAZZ, If you did not notice this is a FORUM - the place from Ancient Greek democracies and Roman empire : aimed for exchange of various opinions, views, advices, ...even constructive critics. These are goals and points of forum existing. Whatever is published at forum - it is subject to members opinion... from gratitude to asking for explanation or disagreement. In a simple words, "ungracious" is pointless qualification in any kind of FORUM. Edited March 3 by esk_pedja 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Madcop 114 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, SR603-Flowbee said: I did a version of this aircraft over a year ago but never posted it. It was done for a friend who supplied the picture of the aircraft he wanted (not the one above), as you can see it is based on a different profile (probably Claes Sundin?). Either way it is dirty as my friend wanted it that way and another example of what I like to do. It is what it is. https://www.mediafire.com/file/fhxjcs2wn7a3dq7/fw190a8_Uffz._Paul_Lixfeldt_v12.dds/file Hi Flowbee Now that's the way a like them, weathered but not overdone , good colours and scheme, fading and correct markings...and still so artistic ! Beautifull skin ! Congratulations. Madcop. Link to post Share on other sites
Indigene 21 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) Flowbee your work is exceptional! Thank you for sharing your work. Keep it up! 🙂 👍 Edited March 3 by Indigene 1 Link to post Share on other sites
esk_pedja 224 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 There is possible explanation for a late war droppings of paint; Normally, in factories and well organized airfields - Al metal was painted with a base coat, and cammo&marking was sprayed on that base In a chaos of late war shortages, at small dispersed airfields, possibly paint was put directly on metal surface... and even possibility that "non profi" paint was applied but any "available paint" was used - just to get it repainted, on parts of fuselage... that certainly was not possible at A3 in 1942. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
JG_deserteagle540 84 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 10 hours ago, SR603-Flowbee said: Lots of critical feedback which is useful. Let me to through it. First of all I spend a lot of my time looking at photos so I'm not completely clueless. So the first point is the over painted RV band. This is quite common and there are a huge amount of photos and artist impressions showing this. Look again closely at the photo I can see quite clearly that the band has been overpainted and is virtually obscured. That is deliberate. Same goes for the wing pattern, I've seen hundreds of photos showing all sorts of paint splashing. I'm looking to do something interesting and different. Now for the dirt. There are not only period photos which are hard to decipher but actual original colour photos showing how incredibly dirty the German aircraft were. This is hardly surprising considering they were flying from muddy fields especially in the winter and spring months. Again this has been discussed at length. Also I'm a great fan of Claes Sundin's work and have some of his books. He uses heavy weathering and I will continue to work on improving my weathering. I have done some clean and shiny skins but I always find them disappointing and dare I say boring in the long run. If you want clean skins there are many skinners doing just that. The reason I started skinning was because I dislike clean and shiny skins. There is no rust on the plane just dirt in the crevices. Aluminium does not rust. Maybe it is a monitor calibration issue. The wing crosses were plain white outlines and then got changed. I'm not sure whether this was an error or if I changed them at a later time after seeing another picture. Either way if I do an update I will change that. To sum up, I do skins for my pleasure then share them in the hope that others will share that pleasure. There is no way that I'm doing stuff I believe to be not only uninteresting but also wrong in that it goes against what I have found in a lifetime of looking at pictures. A friend of mine who is an actual aviation artist is always encouraging me to do more weathering not less so I'm with him on that topic. I am always keen to fix mistakes but when it comes to my fundamental approach that isn't going to change as it comes down to personal preference. I hope that covers it as I have no intention of justifying every skin I put out. One other thought, to both esk_pedja and RaFiGer, you do skins so why are you telling me how to do mine? Just do the skins you want to have. I wouldn't pitch up in your threads (or anyone elses) telling you how to do your skins even if I didn't like them I would just look elsewhere. It seems odd to be getting so much critical attention outwith the actually welcome error spotting or equally welcoming ideas for new skins. Exactly! Your skins full of weathering and dirtiness make them very realistic! Let the other skinners make their shiny "straight from the factory" skins. Please, keep up the incredible good work you are doing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LukeFF 6607 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 12 hours ago, SR603-Flowbee said: I've seen hundreds of photos showing all sorts of paint splashing. I hope by that you mean "various paint patterns", because there is no way any plane - German or Allied - would be permitted to fly with paint that had been just splashed on the wings. Yes, it was late in the war and the Germans took shortcuts on things, but they were still polishing the upper control surfaces of planes well into the fall of 1944. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 (edited) Thanks to some photos and further information kindly supplied by RaFiGer I have updated the first version of the skin to reflect this. I also made a couple of minor changes. I'll add the other version tomorrow. The colour wasn't changed it is just the lighting from the hastily taken screenshots. https://www.mediafire.com/file/cr7ls6ogh1zprur/FW190a8+4k+winter+bg+yellow+2+6.JG300++v13.dds/file Hmm.. now that I look at it changing the side pattern to match the colour of the upper surface might be a good idea.. Edited March 3 by SR603-Flowbee 5 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SR603-Flowbee 2796 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 (edited) Here is the other update and I am pleased with how the engine cooling vents (Kiemenklappen) and heatshield turned out. https://www.mediafire.com/file/bxc46usr2fvih6z/FW190a8+4k+winter+bg+yellow+2+6.JG300+sundin+v3.dds/file An update for the optional Sturmjaeger armor plating. https://mega.nz/file/BptkgY5K#6Rke-rkA74h-BXXgY0SgXPJuczs0mV2_7RqhjtfZkOQ Edited March 7 by SR603-Flowbee 15 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SARFlytitus 1649 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 @SR603-Flowbee WOW,JUST WOW !!! THIS ! Love your skins, I definitely like your style and , overdone or not , love this kind of weathering ! BRAVO ! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Adler23FalkeAuge 18 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 (edited) Fabulous work! Love the grit! Thanks for sharing! Edited March 31 by Adler23FalkeAuge clarity 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerang 511 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Hi Flowbee, Love your work/tallent. Thank you for sharing, very much appreciated. Lucky to have you here as a community member. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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