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Dora or K4 - against Mustang D ?


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2 minutes ago, esk_pedja said:

Which fighter do you prefer in single player - against P51-D ? ( 4000m and below, P51 numerically superior )

Any opinion, experience...?

Without any doubt D9. At least in SP D9 dominates easily at these altitudes. Probably better armament and better overal acceleration make the difference. K4's Mk 108 is a real problem if you are already outnumbered, not easy at all to get quick kills/damages with it. And under 5K K4 is not exceptional at all.

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3 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Been comparing a P51 and a Spit MkXiv clip-wing especially regarding strafing. Latter is far easier to pull up from a dive.

 

Ehh...so Dora then?

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With personal bias, I would choose the K-4. While I prefer the 190D to any A version (barring the -3, maybe), I've still never managed to attain the mystical oneness, mind-metal melding, that I do with a 109.

 

In a more impartial sense, while I would argue that the 190D is, on paper, the better choice than the 109, I would also say this only applies under emergency power/boost. The 109, in my opinion, is far less useless on combat power than the 190D is. And if any dogfight exceeds ~10 minutes, well... you'll be stuck on combat power.

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2 hours ago, esk_pedja said:

Strenghts are ...

 

Anything that had the nick name "flying coffin" has just gotta be better!

 

Now that i have just offended at least half the forum with my dubious comment I will sit back and wait to be verbally shot down! 

😨

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3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Ehh...so Dora then?

 

Wouldn't dare comparing that, is my wife's name ...

7 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Say what?  The Mk. XIV is not even in the sim yet.   Do you by chance mean the Spitfire Mk. IXe?

 

Oops, you're right, a spitfire is not always the same as anothe r spitfireplane, like them UK Jaguar X-type sports cars  LoL.

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3 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

 

Anything that had the nick name "flying coffin" has just gotta be better!

 

Now that i have just offended at least half the forum with my dubious comment I will sit back and wait to be verbally shot down! 

😨

"at least half the forum" is not sure which plane is f. coffin ?

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Overall the Dora might be the best fighter plane in the game right now (at least until Spitfire XIV arrives). It has perfect armament with good gun placements, very good performance at every altitude, marvelous cruising speed and a superb roll rate. It's also very easy to operate as long as you don't do overly ambitious "snap pitch" movements. It can do all kinds of missions at various altitudes with a confidence. Mustang might have a slight edge at altitudes over 7000m, but aerial engagements rarely happen at that altitude.

 

Kurfurst does however have some advantages. The maximum engine performance (especially with DC modification) is superior at all altitudes, even though Dora still has a faster cruise. The Mk108 always has an ability to oneshot an enemy, if you know how to aim. And the Kurfurst is more robust; it can take more punishment than Dora. Currently though all 109 variants are a bit too tough still. The worst aspects of Kurfurst are poor roll rate, low ammunition and poor energy retention in turn fights. Kurfurst also has a nasty tendency to do "aileron reversals" at the worst possible moments. This has probably something to do with the high wing loading of Kurfurst (the fighter is a bit too heavy for its wing size). In comparison Dora handles like a dream.

 

Either way both these fighters are superior to Mustang at the moment. The biggest drawback of Mustang is its .50 cal machine guns that are next to useless with the current damage modeling. You have to hit the enemy with 10 bullets to make same kind of damage as 2 bullets from MG131 (13 mm). Most of the ammunition is also wasted because of poor gun placement. You can compensate this with convergence range, but this takes away your ability to lead long range shots (especially against bombers).

 

In conlusion: Fly Dora, engage MW-50 and destroy everything 😎👍

Edited by [LeLv34]Lykurgos88
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10 hours ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

109 without a doubt. Has greater strengths against the P51 then the dora has

 

Note that the OP implies a situation where you are outnumbered by the P51s, not a 1 vs 1. Cannot think on a single advantage of the K4 in that scenery.

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I am assuming all of this is mostly singleplayer, in online play the dora is hillariously stomped by the mustang in terms of maneuverability, its not even a contest really
In a few turns the mustang will be on the 6 of the 190 slowly stroking it to death (very slowly) with its airsoft guns. 

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8 minutes ago, Sunde said:

I am assuming all of this is mostly singleplayer, in online play the dora is hillariously stomped by the mustang in terms of maneuverability, its not even a contest really
In a few turns the mustang will be on the 6 of the 190 slowly stroking it to death (very slowly) with its airsoft guns. 

 

Yep, guess that IL2 P51 is shooting .50 marshmallows mainly.

That Spitfire MkiXe clipped is a mean alternative, pity it shoots rockets per two in stead of one at a time as with the P51

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Posted (edited)

So which one is better in maneuverability at 4000m :

 

- less energy/speed loss in repeated turns

 

- maintaining handling reliability - in turns/rolls...  ( following decrease  of top energy ) 

 

 

Edited by esk_pedja
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The K4 is the easier aircraft to fly and be good in.

 

The Dora suffers from it's aft MW50 tank that really wants you to spend a few minutes worth of MW in order to shift the CoG forward and have more acceptable handling-qualities when flying slow.

 

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Both are fine. Overall I prefer the k4 as I’ve spent more time in it and shoot very well with the mk108. The d9s bubble canopy and ammo capacity make it a close contender but the 109s ability to gain energy will be more useful than the 190s high speed controllability, roll rate, and dive in a fight where I am out numbered in my opinion. 

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It's 100% the Fw190D-9 for me. I've always preferred the Fw190 style of combat and the D-9 is just the ultimate expression of it.

 

If you fly it right you'll never once turn with a P-51, Spitfire or Tempest for anything more than a snap shot. You'll just carry back on up and roll over and come back down on them again.

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7 hours ago, Mandoble said:

 

Note that the OP implies a situation where you are outnumbered by the P51s, not a 1 vs 1. Cannot think on a single advantage of the K4 in that scenery.

 

What? On the k4 you run out climbing they can't catch you, nothing on this game can climb faster than the k4.

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5 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

What? On the k4 you run out climbing they can't catch you, nothing on this game can climb faster than the k4.

The spit ix can stay with it 
 

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22 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

It's 100% the Fw190D-9 for me. I've always preferred the Fw190 style of combat and the D-9 is just the ultimate expression of it.

 

If you fly it right you'll never once turn with a P-51, Spitfire or Tempest for anything more than a snap shot. You'll just carry back on up and roll over and come back down on them again.

For smart and/or disciplined pilots it may be the 190 - that's exactly why I shifted from the 109 to the 190, because it forces me to fly smart und punishes my lack of discipline.

 

If I wanted to win at any cost against AI P51 I'd still choose the K4 over the D9. Because even if you do stupid things the combination of climbrate, low speed manouverability and acceleration mean you have good chances to save your sorry a$$ anyways.

 

Stupidly wasted a lot of energy in a useless flat turn? No problemo! One MW50 induced spiralclimb to the left at 300 km/h will most likely get you into a position from which you can either successfully reengage or disengage at your liking - as long as you stay under 6000m.

 

Biggest danger in the K4: I black out far easier than in a D-9.

 

So in conclusion - I find winning in a K4 far easier but it'll teach you bad habbits :)

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17 hours ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

109 without a doubt. Has greater strengths against the P51 then the dora has

 

Agree.  

I’ve had good fun with this.  I used Syn Vander’s excellent mission generator to create scenarios, the a.i. behave in a much more believable way than using the QMB and my preferred weapon of choice is the G14.

At medium to low altitude it’s not much slower than the K and for my shooting skill the twenty mil. is much more practical.

 I find the Dora’s handling much less predictable - I’d rather take the A3 or A6 - but for this sort of dogfight it’s the 109 all the way for me.

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1 hour ago, Hajo_Garlic said:

The spit ix can stay with it 
 

 

Not even close, the k4 will leave you mom the dust, climbing at same ratio doesn't mean the k4 will not leave you on the dust due higher speed and acceleration.

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DD_Arthur,

Cogratulations for performance in cockpit view only... but was it recorded - before the patch that increased AI aggressiveness , few months ago ? 

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10 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Agree.  

I’ve had good fun with this.  I used Syn Vander’s excellent mission generator to create scenarios, the a.i. behave in a much more believable way than using the QMB and my preferred weapon of choice is the G14.

At medium to low altitude it’s not much slower than the K and for my shooting skill the twenty mil. is much more practical.

 I find the Dora’s handling much less predictable - I’d rather take the A3 or A6 - but for this sort of dogfight it’s the 109 all the way for me.

 

If we are going tanget on the 109's I'd recommend the G6 Late. She slides in nicely between the G14 and K in overall performance when equipped with MW50. I'm not accurate enough to use the Mk 108 so prefer the 20mm for both accuracy and ammo load. I'm finding quite a bit of success online and I'm an Fw driver by trade.

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Problem with the 109's is that they're more sluggish at speed, and it takes more self-control to NOT stay on the tail of a single enemy. That means they'll be less good at snap shots, yet they'll be more "enticing" to saddle up on a single bandit.... at which point you'll sacrifice your SA and speed. Not great for a one-on-many situation.

 

With the Dora (and all 190's), I've found that I always "keep moving" and stay fast. The Dora that we have here seems like one of the most fun flight models I've ever played. It handles so well at speed.

 

-Ryan

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Personally I'd go with the Bf109 in this scenario.

 

On a tangent: the Dora has the most beautifuly modeled and textured cockpit in the entire sim. So even if you don't like how she handles at least you get that beautiful experience out of it.

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17 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

If we are going tanget on the 109's I'd recommend the G6 Late. She slides in nicely between the G14 and K in overall performance when equipped with MW50. I'm not accurate enough to use the Mk 108 so prefer the 20mm for both accuracy and ammo load. I'm finding quite a bit of success online and I'm an Fw driver by trade.

 

I have always thought of the G6 late as the plane people are talking about when they say the 109 was outclassed late in the war.  Bulges all over the place.  Looks like a plane that has been modified beyond the capacity of the airframe. Significantly slower than the P-51amd any advantages were not enough to compensate for that.  The late war 109s and the 190D brought the balance back but way too late.

 

True or not true?  Would be interested in hearing from fans of the G6 Late since it was flying very late into into 44 with some probably lingering to 45.

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It's lighter than the K4, turns and climbs well, faster than the 14 at certain flight levels (on MW50) and has the standard 20mm ammo loadout. I like it better than either of our late war 109's unless I'm running on the deck and out of go juice.

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Tried the G6 late. Never flown it before, lol.

Feels very similar to the G14, if a little heavier?

Certainly feels as fast  using the MW and I got similar results.

Tried the Dora too.

Man, that was hard work!

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On 3/2/2021 at 4:33 PM, DD_Arthur said:

Tried the G6 late. Never flown it before, lol.

Feels very similar to the G14, if a little heavier?

Certainly feels as fast  using the MW and I got similar results.

Tried the Dora too.

Man, that was hard work!

 

G6 late with mw50 is a little slower than G14, but nothing astonishing, both should be very similar, F10 on the other hand... I wish we have that variant

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