M2 50 Cal. Mod

[QB.Rails 193]

Here's a mod for the 50 cal. that gives it more of a punch than stock currently does. Attached are some pics of the files themselves and a video. 

Here's a video that @Cass made showing the differences. Thanks again.

Here is the stock file the game uses for 12-23mm AP rounds.

 

 

Here is the stock values for MG131 HE rounds the game uses.

 

And here is the modified round. It's essentially a HE round now toned way way down.

 

Files have been updated to only affect M2's

 

worldobjects.zip

Edited March 1 by QB.Rails

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard 1398]

Very nice job fine tuning this 👍  For what I could test to cause level 2 in aerodynamic damage you need around 15 rounds, compared to the stock game 62. The 13mm / 12.7mm HE round still are 15 times as powerful in this regard (since they can do it with a single hit), but with a decent burst with this modification you can cause some performance handling penalty on the target.

We don't get extra incendiary component but it's a step in the right direction

Edited February 23 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[RedKestrel 3587]

I will not download this mod because it will probably just make me depressed when I fly online, lol. 

[=AW=drewm3i-VR 68]

Amazing, thanks so much! Now I can fly American planes...albeit offline.

 

Going to test it out...from the looks of it, it may need to be slightly more effective, especially in terms of fires. Any improvement is welcome though.

Edited February 23 by =AW=drewm3i-VR

[JG7_X-Man 502]

@QB.Rails Great mod!

However - I am not sure the issue is with the round as much so as AI shooting is crap!

[QB.Rails 193]

5 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@QB.Rails Great mod!

However - I am not sure the issue is with the round as much so as AI shooting is crap!

If you want I can send you a mod to where the American birds are shooting mg131 HE only. I’m sure you’ll notice the difference even with their “bad shooting”

[=AW=drewm3i-VR 68]

Just tested...these are amazing. Thanks so much!

[Skycat1969 2]

Is there a way to use these without a mod manager?

[QB.Rails 193]

18 minutes ago, Skycat1969 said:

Is there a way to use these without a mod manager?

Simply download and put in your LuaScript file. Make sure you run the game with mods on. 

[Skycat1969 2]

7 minutes ago, QB.Rails said:

Simply download and put in your LuaScript file. Make sure you run the game with mods on. 

Thank you. The worldobjects folder with its subfolders (ballistics and explosions) goes into LuaScripts, correct?

[QB.Rails 193]

Correct

[=AW=drewm3i-VR 68]

35 minutes ago, Skycat1969 said:

Is there a way to use these without a mod manager?

Use jsgme...so dang easy. Activate or deactivate any time.

[No457_Stonehouse 74]

Just so I know as I'll likely have to explain the difference to stock to others in the group I fly with - you look to have increased the muzzle velocity and mass of the projectile plus some effects changes so presumably the 50cal bullets now have effects more like 12-23mm rounds in certain cases than previously?

 

So 840 m/s to 860 m/s and mass from 0.0419 kg to 0.045 kg? Was that basically it?

 

Kind of by the way but since I had a pdf of it handy and that it was suddenly relevant I went looking in volume 3 of the Dept of Navy "The Machine Gun" 1951 (page 335) and assuming I didn't stuff up the math it looks like they are saying velocity was 2845 fps or 867 m/s (rounded down) and weight of the bullet was 1.62 ounces or 0.0459 kg (rounded to 3 decimals) for the basic air cooled M2. 

 

I'm sure there is much more to the calculation done in the IL2 engine than just muzzle velocity and bullet mass but the above would seem to suggest you could increase the values slightly still and remain inside what seems to be the real world stats.

 

Apparently there were improvements trialed in Sept 1944 to the std M2 used in aircraft that increased the reliability and rate of fire and also muzzle velocity amongst other things. It seems like limited procurement was approved in October 1944 of 31,336 of these T36 variants but after 8000 guns were produced production stopped because there was better than expected progress in the M3 development. So possibly this M2 variant could be a P-51 in game modification. The T36 variant was reclassified as the Limited Standard M2 and redesignated "Gun, Machine, Browning, Caliber .50, M2A1, Aircraft, Basic" after the M3 arrived on the scene.

 

Thanks for the mod!

 

PS Sorry forgot to mention this mod overlaps the GFX_Multicoloured Tracers mod as they both change bullet_usa_12-7x99_ap.txt so for those people using the tracer mod you will need to do some simple edits if you want both mods to apply. Otherwise the last one loaded in JSGME is what you get in game.

Edited February 24 by No457_Stonehouse
added approval date

[QB.Rails 193]

1 hour ago, No457_Stonehouse said:

Just so I know as I'll likely have to explain the difference to stock to others in the group I fly with - you look to have increased the muzzle velocity and mass of the projectile plus some effects changes so presumably the 50cal bullets now have effects more like 12-23mm rounds in certain cases than previously?

 

So 840 m/s to 860 m/s and mass from 0.0419 kg to 0.045 kg? Was that basically it?

 

Kind of by the way but since I had a pdf of it handy and that it was suddenly relevant I went looking in volume 3 of the Dept of Navy "The Machine Gun" 1951 (page 335) and assuming I didn't stuff up the math it looks like they are saying velocity was 2845 fps or 867 m/s (rounded down) and weight of the bullet was 1.62 ounces or 0.0459 kg (rounded to 3 decimals) for the basic air cooled M2. 

 

I'm sure there is much more to the calculation done in the IL2 engine than just muzzle velocity and bullet mass but the above would seem to suggest you could increase the values slightly still and remain inside what seems to be the real world stats.

 

Apparently there were improvements trialed in Sept 1944 to the std M2 used in aircraft that increased the reliability and rate of fire and also muzzle velocity amongst other things. It seems like limited procurement was approved of 31,336 of these T36 variants but after 8000 guns were produced production stopped because there was better than expected progress in the M3 development. So possibly this M2 variant could be a P-51 in game modification. The T36 variant was reclassified as the Limited Standard M2 and redesignated "Gun, Machine, Browning, Caliber .50, M2A1, Aircraft, Basic" after the M3 arrived on the scene.

 

Thanks for the mod!

 

PS Sorry forgot to mention this mod overlaps the GFX_Multicoloured Tracers mod as they both change bullet_usa_12-7x99_ap.txt so for those people using the tracer mod you will need to do some simple edits if you want both mods to apply. Otherwise the last one loaded in JSGME is what you get in game.

I added some pictures highlighting the other files that were edited to achieve the desired effect with the mod, which is a pseudo API round . You are not wrong that I did up those values. I don't know if they have a dramatic effect when only upping the mass and velocity(other than just less ricochets) but I had to edit the effects file as well to achieve aero damage quicker. Glad you like it and thanks for the heads up about interference with the tracer mod.

Edited February 24 by QB.Rails

[vincentmoy 3]

Will this affect other aircraft that use that caliber, eg. spitfire Like what I saw from this post?

 

 

Edited February 24 by vincentmoy

[Cass 157]

3 hours ago, vincentmoy said:

Will this affect other aircraft that use that caliber, eg. spitfire Like what I saw from this post?

That's a mod that changes the 50s to output the same damage as the 13mm HE.

 

This is just a modified version of the .50 file to create a more plausible damage output. It would still affect the Spitfires .50s but would be nowhere near as effective as in that video.

[RedKestrel 3587]

11 hours ago, QB.Rails said:

I added some pictures highlighting the other files that were edited to achieve the desired effect with the mod, which is a pseudo API round . You are not wrong that I did up those values. I don't know if they have a dramatic effect when only upping the mass and velocity(other than just less ricochets) but I had to edit the effects file as well to achieve aero damage quicker. Glad you like it and thanks for the heads up about interference with the tracer mod.

If those minor changes to velocity and mass make a big difference then something is well and truly borked.

[QB.Rails 193]

2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

If those minor changes to velocity and mass make a big difference then something is well and truly borked.

It’s not just changes to mass and velocity. The effects file had to be edited as well. The M2 50 cal round is now a HE round. Not an AP with the mod. 
 

i tested just upping the other values before to see if anything would change. I didn’t notice a dramatic effect. It still took a lot of rounds to achieve level 2 aero damage. Giving the round HE capabilities let it get level 2 aero sooner and upped the fuel tank fire chance. Something AP has very little chance of in the stock game. 

[RedKestrel 3587]

3 minutes ago, QB.Rails said:

It’s not just changes to mass and velocity. The effects file had to be edited as well. The M2 50 cal round is now a HE round. Not an AP with the mod. 
 

i tested just upping the other values before to see if anything would change. I didn’t notice a dramatic effect. It still took a lot of rounds to achieve level 2 aero damage. Giving the round HE capabilities let it get level 2 aero sooner and upped the fuel tank fire chance. Something AP has very little chance of in the stock game. 

Sorry, I understood what you did, what I meant was that the little tweaks to just the velocity and weight were probably negligible in terms of impact compared to the HE component. And if they HAD had a major effect, then that would imply some true craziness going on, since an increase in 20m/s shoudln't achieve much.

As it is it looks to me from the videos like the tiny amount of HE being modeled in the mod is achieving the effects that the rounds would likely have IRL - torn up skin from lots of holes joining up, and ragged 'exit wounds' from tumbling rounds. Rather than the dozens of individual neat holes that seem to be modeled. 

Edited February 24 by RedKestrel

[QB.Rails 193]

2 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Sorry, I understood what you did, what I meant was that the little tweaks to just the velocity and weight were probably negligible in terms of impact compared to the HE component. 

Yes. I think HE is having a bigger effect. I think there are less ricochets but I didn’t test that really. Just looked at tac views and it did seem like less rounds bounced off. I mean the round is still acting kind of like AP. It’s just a very high penetrating HE round. So basically a pseudo API. If I was able to do mixed belts for the American birds it would have been even better I think. But this “feels” pretty close 

[Mysticpuma 1239]

Is there a JGSME version please or can you post the file path this needs to be placed in (assuming BoX is on the C;Drive? Thanks

[No457_Stonehouse 74]

It goes into IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\data\luascripts

 

So to make the mod for JSGME, in your JSGME MODS folder create a new folder called something like 50cal dmg, then within this new folder create another new folder called data, within this new folder create yet another new folder called luascripts. Download the mod and do an unzip so you end up with a structure like the below pic. The folders below luascripts are what is in the zip file you download.

 

When you start JSGME you should now see a folder in the left window called 50cal dmg. Activate this mod and you are done. Note that if you use GFX Multicoloured tracers you need to edit a file in this 50 cal damage mod. The file is called bullet_usa_12-7x99_ap.txt and its found in the folder shown in the 2nd pic below. Ignore the .bak and 2 and 3 versions in the pic - that's just me leaving some copies in the folder for comparison. You need to change line 8 so that where it says visualradius = 4 make it 4.4. Do this before you enable the mod in JSGME. This resolves the conflict between this mod and the other and then you can ignore the warning in JSGME about overwriting this file.

 

 

Edited February 25 by No457_Stonehouse

[unreasonable 3164]

Thanks for mod. It certainly has plausible effects in terms of damage, but i wonder why the "visual radius" variable has been increased so much? 2 on default AP, 3 in default 13mm HE, 4 in your mod. My first reaction to the video was that the hit graphics for your modded were way too Hollywood.

 

I assume this variable is only affecting the size of the visual graphic ( but not sure) - which I thought was OTT even in the original. Pilot reports suggest they liked API rounds because it made it easier to see strikes, which was not easy with pure AP.  

 

So I will probably try toning them all down. At least with mods we can all tinker.

 

 

[QB.Rails 193]

3 hours ago, unreasonable said:

Thanks for mod. It certainly has plausible effects in terms of damage, but i wonder why the "visual radius" variable has been increased so much? 2 on default AP, 3 in default 13mm HE, 4 in your mod. My first reaction to the video was that the hit graphics for your modded were way too Hollywood.

 

I assume this variable is only affecting the size of the visual graphic ( but not sure) - which I thought was OTT even in the original. Pilot reports suggest they liked API rounds because it made it easier to see strikes, which was not easy with pure AP.  

 

So I will probably try toning them all down. At least with mods we can all tinker.

 

 

Yeah that 4 value is purely a visual size I believe. I was messing around with other graphics files in its place to see if I could get it to look more like old gun camera footage. You can tone it down if it’s to much. 

[Ouky1991 613]

This is awsome, thanks! So I understand this also affects german MG 131, correct?

[CountZero 1981]

7 minutes ago, Ouky1991 said:

This is awsome, thanks! So I understand this also affects german MG 131, correct?

Mod on first post only makes changes to .50 AP bullets, so only airplanes that have M2 gun in game as that gun have only AP ammo mod edits, nothing els.

[QB.Rails 193]

2 hours ago, Ouky1991 said:

This is awsome, thanks! So I understand this also affects german MG 131, correct?

It does but I’m going to update it so it only affects M2’s. Plus I’m working on a 30 cal mod as well. Just waiting for feedback from some folks. 

Edited February 27 by QB.Rails

[=TH=mincer 382]

On 2/24/2021 at 6:24 AM, JG7_X-Man said:

@QB.Rails Great mod!

However - I am not sure the issue is with the round as much so as AI shooting is crap!

 

lol this is hilarious. Whenever somebody brings up a DM issue, there is always a batch of condescending "learn to aim" replies. Even poor AI cannot escape this tragic fate.

[Ouky1991 613]

19 hours ago, QB.Rails said:

It does but I’m going to update it so it only affects M2’s. Plus I’m working on a 30 cal mod as well. Just waiting for feedback from some folks. 

Cool. I had no idea how damage can be modded, so thanks for this. I googled and found unGTP-IL2 and I'm trying to bring Mk 108 back to its glory 😄

[QB.Creep 590]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:24 PM, JG7_X-Man said:

@QB.Rails Great mod!

However - I am not sure the issue is with the round as much so as AI shooting is crap!

Did you watch the video? It's AI shooting the standard round and the modified round. It's a pretty obvious difference between the two.

 

 

@QB.RailsJust tried the mod this morning - holy cow, what a difference. Thank you so much for this! It's not overdone either - a glancing blow from a deflection shot still doesn't do much, but a 1 or 2 second burst now reliably causes aerodynamic drag (which is exactly what is missing right now).

Now... can you figure out how to make the 109's tail not a black hole? 😜

Edited February 28 by QB.Creep

[QB.Rails 193]

Files have been updated to only affect M2's

[Shuz 2]

Thanks for your works, I love this mod.

Edited March 1 by Shuz

[Dirtbag_Jim 32]

Cheers for your work on this! Much appreciated o7

 

On a side note; would you happen to have any plans of releasing a mod for the 13mm, and possibly the Russian 12.7mm, HE rounds to tone them down closer to what we have with the M2 50 cals in your mod so that their damage effects are less overdone?

Edited March 2 by Dirtbag_Jim

[-[HRAF]Roland_HUNter 256]

As I said in the past, lads u have to choose.
You want realistic .50? 
Okey, but then accept this, aswell:
https://imgur.com/gallery/HkGqW
 

Because at this point, I can shot the spit wing with mk108, it will have surface damage, but the wing will be still there.

Then make all the guns realistic. And please don't wish the 13mm HE-I should damage the same as an AP round.

And please don't bring up that, how germans not used HE-I in 1944 Western front...With HE-I you can shoot the bomber until forever, but with API, you gonna ignite the engine or fuel tank.
And yes the americans did the same with the 109, but do not forget the 25mm armor plate behind the fuel tank in the 109.

[-Astra-TheRedPanda 60]

Great mod 👍 it doesnt feel overpowered at all from testing its a nice little improvement on what we have in the simulator 😁

[QB.Rails 193]

11 hours ago, Dirtbag_Jim said:

Cheers for your work on this! Much appreciated o7

 

On a side note; would you happen to have any plans of releasing a mod for the 13mm, and possibly the Russian 12.7mm, HE rounds to tone them down closer to what we have with the M2 50 cals in your mod so that their damage effects are less overdone?

I might take a look after I finish the 30 cal mod. 

 

5 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

As I said in the past, lads u have to choose.
You want realistic .50? 
Okey, but then accept this, aswell:
https://imgur.com/gallery/HkGqW
 

Because at this point, I can shot the spit wing with mk108, it will have surface damage, but the wing will be still there.

Then make all the guns realistic. And please don't wish the 13mm HE-I should damage the same as an AP round.

And please don't bring up that, how germans not used HE-I in 1944 Western front...With HE-I you can shoot the bomber until forever, but with API, you gonna ignite the engine or fuel tank.
And yes the americans did the same with the 109, but do not forget the 25mm armor plate behind the fuel tank in the 109.

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. Don’t really care though, go take your 3cm shells elsewhere. 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard 1398]

7 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Then make all the guns realistic. And please don't wish the 13mm HE-I should damage the same as an AP round.

With this mod the 13mm HE is still 15 times more powerful than the .50 AP and people like it.  The 13mm HE on it's own being only half as power than the 20mm Mine is still wrong though, 1.5 g vs 20 g only half the aero damage.

[BCI-Nazgul 151]

51 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

With this mod the 13mm HE is still 15 times more powerful than the .50 AP and people like it.  The 13mm HE on it's own being only half as power than the 20mm Mine is still wrong though, 1.5 g vs 20 g only half the aero damage.

I have no idea how that got through any kind of testing.  My personal feeling is that both 20mm HE and 13 mm HE are overpowered with the 13 mm HE being extremely OP.  Next time 1C has a "beta test" of gun damage we need some better testers in the mix.

[-[HRAF]Roland_HUNter 256]

39 minutes ago, BCI-Nazgul said:

I have no idea how that got through any kind of testing.  My personal feeling is that both 20mm HE and 13 mm HE are overpowered with the 13 mm HE being extremely OP.  Next time 1C has a "beta test" of gun damage we need some better testers in the mix.

They had very good testers. Ask the devs.

[BCI-Nazgul 151]

1 hour ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

They had very good testers. Ask the devs.

Sure they did.