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Loss of elevator authority on landing conf...


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I have started to experince it the first time when the P40E was released. In the circuit, while configuring the aircraft for landing, I was running out of elevator trim to balance the need for continuous pull on the stick... Sometimes 100% tail heavy wasn't sufficient.

 

Then came the P51 and the same happens with that model, and finally I noticed somehow the P47 shares the same lack of "enough tail heavy" trimming.

 

I usually set my controllers without "force feedback" in the Game Options but I wonder if it makes a difference, even for those who, like me, don't have an FF stick, but even more in the case of those who have it.

 

Unfortunately I am presently unable to test it because I do not have IL-2 installed, so I leave here the question - does setting "force-feedback" make a difference ?

Edited by jcomm-in-il2
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You won't always be able to correct a planes attitude with trim. 

 

Pilots may occasionally need to use stick inputs to control their craft. 

 

The force feedback setting makes no difference if you do not have a force feedback stick. 

Edited by [DBS]Browning
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Not being able to trim for approach speeds in a landing config is pretty odd behavior indeed. Unless there is some account of this not being possible on the aircraft in question (welcome to being corrected on this), I think it is very strange behavior that should be addressed.

 

In general I find elevator trim behavior to be a little odd in this sim. Generally in the game, through wide speed ranges, there seems to be surprisingly little need for it, and yet there are also regions of the envelope where it is ineffective as in the above example.

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On 2/9/2021 at 9:57 PM, jcomm-in-il2 said:

I have started to experince it the first time when the P40E was released. In the circuit, while configuring the aircraft for landing, I was running out of elevator trim to balance the need for continuous pull on the stick... Sometimes 100% tail heavy wasn't sufficient.

 

Then came the P51 and the same happens with that model, and finally I noticed somehow the P47 shares the same lack of "enough tail heavy" trimming.

 

I usually set my controllers without "force feedback" in the Game Options but I wonder if it makes a difference, even for those who, like me, don't have an FF stick, but even more in the case of those who have it.

 

Unfortunately I am presently unable to test it because I do not have IL-2 installed, so I leave here the question - does setting "force-feedback" make a difference ?

 

I have noticed the same with the p-47. I have no FBB.

Main thing for me, is that if you want to trim the plane for best speed for climbing you barely can do it. If you are heavy for ground attack you can´t do it (at least in previous patches, I haven´t tried with this one).

Otoh, in that another sim with simulate a p-47d30 you have enough trim authority for those speeds. And that makes more sense.

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22 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

The best climb speed for a heavily loaded 47 will be around 190mph. I can do thing hands off stick with about 60% trim.

 

Clean, 100% fuel. I can do 170mph at 88% of trim heavy tail. Hands off. 100% trim (all the way heavy tail) gives you around 165mph hands off.

Loaded with 3x500lbs and 100% fuel I can do 190mph at 86% of trim, hands off. At 100% of heavy tail trim gives me 180-185mph.

Both cases 2550rpm and 42hg (maximus continous).

 

I can´t find any data on best climbing speed for loaded  airplanes. But the pilot manuals say for a normal loaded plane:

Pilot manual for B,C,D and G airplanes (Technical order No 01-65BC-1) says that the best climbing speed is 140-155 IAS.

Pilot manual for P-47D25-35 (AN 01B65C-1A) says that best climbing speed is 150-165 IAS.

 

It doesn´t make any sense to me that in order to trim the plane for the best climbing speeds you have to crank the trim wheel all the way back.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, HR_Zunzun said:

Pilot manual for B,C,D and G airplanes (Technical order No 01-65BC-1) says that the best climbing speed is 140-155 IAS.

Pilot manual for P-47D25-35 (AN 01B65C-1A) says that best climbing speed is 150-165 IAS.

Sure that is not in knots?

Because 165mph = 264kph... and afaik the optimal climb speed of the 109F is 270kph. The jug with higher wing loading would have an optimal climb speed higher than that I would reckon.

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2 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

Sure that is not in knots?

Because 165mph = 264kph... and afaik the optimal climb speed of the 109F is 270kph. The jug with higher wing loading would have an optimal climb speed higher than that I would reckon.

That is a good point. It looked a bit low to me as well and I checked they were not talking about knots instead of mph. But all the speeds in the manuals comes in mph. Afak USAAF used mph until after ww2. USN used knots.

I have a book; "Check six"  from James Currant, a pilot of p-47 in the pacific. It contains several apendixs. One of them comes with notes from Lindbergh regarding how to get the most from the jug in terms of range. When talking about climbing speeds, Lindbergh said that the best speeds varied from 185mph (all in mph) with external tanks to 170mph without. An even 165mph with partial fuel or ammo expended.

It seems it was about those speeds indeed. Maybe the manual with 140-155mph climbing speed is just for the razorbacks. As they don´t have the extra fuel, they can climb at lower speeds.

In any case, few mph above or below, my concern, that the trim wheel range seems a bit short for climbing speeds, I think still stands.

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