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Hans-Joachim Marseille: skins for both the Battle of Britain and the Desert War


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Hi all. Today I speak on behalf of a French colleague who asked one qquetion in a French-speaking forum. He's looking for skins for aircraft having been flown by Hans-Joachim Marseille. Marseille served in two theaters of operations, the English Channel and North Africa. What about the available corresponding skins in "Cliffs of Dover" and "Desert Wings"? Are there any?

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32 minutes ago, Larry69 said:

something like that?

 

SyrgHZC.jpg

 

 

Yes! thank you Larry! Would you kindly share the corresponding download links to the versions showing the entire swastika on the tail? (the links only, please do not show them on the forums).

 

In the meantime, a French guy provide us with his own versions. The official skins in the game do not show any swastika, so he added it on the tail. The two following skins are available for the moment, but i'm not sure the second is historical:

 

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=21/05/65m8.jpg

 

https://www.zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=21/05/5x67.jpg

 

 

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14 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I don't think there were E-7s in September 1940... most likely a E-4...

 

According to Wikipedia, Francis K. Mason's 1973 book Messerschmitt Bf 109B, C, D, E in Luftwaffe & Foreign service says that the E-7 started seeing combat in August 1940 (I would assume in very limited numbers).

 

I think we can agree, though, that relying on what Wikipedia says about a book I've never read for information isn't going to get me my degree, so take it with a massive grain of salt.

 

According to the Biggin Hill Heritage Hangar, the aircraft was built as an E-1 and upgraded to an E-4. There's also an image that seems to show it after being upgraded to an E-7, but I think it was rebuilt as an E-4 and remains one to this day: https://bigginhillheritagehangar.co.uk/messerschmitt-me109

 

This interview with one of its modern pilots identifies it as an E-4: https://vintageaviationecho.com/bf109e/

Edited by [Pb]Cybermat47
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On 2/4/2021 at 5:16 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I'm back. The guy says he already knew those skins, but that latter do not match what he is looking for because they do not show swastikas. He's looking for fully historical skins... any help?

 

Hello,

 

although you are acutely aware of the symbol’s significance , please allow me a few sentences for the sake of the often citated beloved 'historical accuracy' concerning aircraft 'skins'... ...

 

A symbol is a visual image or sign representing an idea. Human cultures use symbols to express specific ideologies and social structures and to represent aspects of their culture. 

 

As such please don't call the 'Hakenkreuz' a 'swastika'.

 

The two symbols are radically different. While the the 'swastika'  is a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, the 'Hakenkreuze' on German aircraft 'skins' are symbols of Nazi Germany, exclusively associated with hatred and intolerance.
 
Thank you for your attention.

 

:salute: ~V~

 

Edited by Varrattu
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23 minutes ago, Varrattu said:

  As such please don't call the 'Hakenkreuz' a 'swastika'.

 

The two symbols are radically different. While the the 'swastika'  is a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, the 'Hakenkreuze' on German aircraft 'skins' are symbols of Nazi Germany, exclusively associated with hatred and intolerance.

 

Agree completely.  I've personnally been extremely offended by Kintaro's use of the term 'swastika' in this thread.

 

We all understand that a hakenkreuz is infact an in-bred swastika:(

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"Hakenkreuz" is German for "hooked cross", or "angled cross". Whatever ideological meaning the nazis gave to this symbol, the term "swastika" is unambiguous and refers to the very same symbol. Obviously here, on an English-language forum, I won't use the French term "croix gammée" ("gamma-shaped cross") nor the Spanish term "cruz gamada"... same as I won't use the English terms "hooked cross", "angled cross" or "gammarion". Nor other terminology that would be unsatisfactory to me since the common usage in English consists in calling this... "a swastika". A swastika remains a swastika, please do not mix up one word that refers to one symbol... with the tens (or thousands) of meanings the so mentioned symbol had in the past. A swastika is a swastika, on a WWII German plane or on a Hindu temple.

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2 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

 

According to Wikipedia, Francis K. Mason's 1973 book Messerschmitt Bf 109B, C, D, E in Luftwaffe & Foreign service says that the E-7 started seeing combat in August 1940 (I would assume in very limited numbers).

 

I think we can agree, though, that relying on what Wikipedia says about a book I've never read for information isn't going to get me my degree, so take it with a massive grain of salt.

 

According to the Biggin Hill Heritage Hangar, the aircraft was built as an E-1 and upgraded to an E-4. There's also an image that seems to show it after being upgraded to an E-7, but I think it was rebuilt as an E-4 and remains one to this day: https://bigginhillheritagehangar.co.uk/messerschmitt-me109

 

This interview with one of its modern pilots identifies it as an E-4: https://vintageaviationecho.com/bf109e/

 

 

Thank you Cybermat47 as you brought some light on the subject.

 

Is REALLY this 109 (this one) the original aircraft that had been flown in France by H. J. Marseille?

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