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A late war (44-45) Eastern front setting


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Greetings everyone.

 

With BON looming, are there thoughts for a future release which could add some late war planes such as the TU-2, the Yak 3, La7, 190F8 etc etc. Or will it go into a completely different direction with a pacific or mediterranean setting? 

 

What would you guys like after BON? Or is it the last installment before the release of a bran new sim with a new engine?

 

 

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Nothing has been hinted at or announced and I suspect it will be another 12-16 months before we'll get to that point. That said, this subject has come up in a number of places recently and you'll hear everything from the Pacific, to the Mediterranean, to a Battle of Berlin. Years and years ago they even talked about trying to do Korea at some point.

 

IMHO, I'll be happy with anything so long as the series is continuing. Berlin would be a nice bookend and there's quite a few Yak-3/La-7 fans around.

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4 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

IMHO, I'll be happy with anything so long as the series is continuing.

Same here, I have a small preference for some more early war content but in the first place I'll support them with whatever they come off with to keep this great series going.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

Edited by FlyingShark
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Hello,

In fact it is the same as in the time of Il2 46

With ROF, il2 is planned in its original concept for tactical aviation at low and medium altitude and near the front with relatively short flights.

  IL2 is very very very good !!.

The war period does not really matter

On the other hand, as soon as we have raids with strategic aviation at high altitude with long flights (four-engined escort) and long distance or the war of the Pacific, the concept as it is no longer suitable for long distances. .

It will take a transposition system instead of time compression as it was for the old simulation "European Air War"

Edited by MarcoPegase44
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29 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Nothing has been hinted at or announced and I suspect it will be another 12-16 months before we'll get to that point. That said, this subject has come up in a number of places recently and you'll hear everything from the Pacific, to the Mediterranean, to a Battle of Berlin. Years and years ago they even talked about trying to do Korea at some point.

 

IMHO, I'll be happy with anything so long as the series is continuing. Berlin would be a nice bookend and there's quite a few Yak-3/La-7 fans around.

 

Love to see Berlin, but new modul over germany has to be include other Bf 109 or Fw 190. Except the G10 we allready got everything. Would be interessting which german fighter they will offer for other europe moduls. Questions is how many customer will buy a product where the next Bf is only tiny variant or some very special experimental aircraft.

Edited by JG27_Steini
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In an past interview it was mentioned an late eastern front release in the future was possible, this doesn't say it will come as next release though.

The FW190F8 is already in the game as modification for the FW190A8, for an late eastern front they can still do the Fw190A9.

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Speculating:

- La-7, Yak-3, Yak-9 (late), Fw-190A9, Bf-109G10
- Tu-2 OR Il-4 
- Ju-188 OR Do-217E
= 7 aircraft


To fill in the 3 missing aircraft:
- Possibly P-63 (supposedly limited to the Far East by treaty, but some evidence suggests one or two groups were used in the offensive to Berlin)

- Possibly Do-335 OR He-162 OR Ta-152 (hard to justify historically, but would sell - Il-10 also falls into this category).

- Possibly other earlier aircraft to fill in gaps with existing plane-sets (IAR-81, I-153, Ju-87D-5, A-20G, Lisunov Li-2, Fw-189, Fi-156, Ar-196)

 

Am I missing anything?

37 minutes ago, JG27_Steini said:

Love to see Berlin, but new modul over germany has to be include other Bf 109 or Fw 190. Except the G10 we allready got everything. Would be interessting which german fighter they will offer for other europe moduls. Questions is how many customer will buy a product where the next Bf is only tiny variant or some very special experimental aircraft.

 

Yeah, Bf-109G10 and Fw-190A9 can be added but they are the last significant variants.

 

This is where a Ju-188 or Do-217E would come in... and probably a flashy aircraft that was on the verge of seeing service but was late due to development issues and lack of fuel (He-162, Do-335, Ta-152 are candidates).

Edited by Avimimus
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Updating to a new engine is something only the team knows.  I don't see it happening any time soon.  More likely they continue to modify this engine.  Still, that's a guess on my part backed by zero actual information.

 

As for next, who knows.  Lots of different possible directions.  Italy, Russia 1944, Berlin, BOB, France 1940, or the long awaited move to the Pacific.  BoN will almost certainly occupy the rest of 2021 so there is time for the decision to be made.

 

Shameless PWCG plug: PWCG has eastern front 1944/1945 campaigns.  It is done using the existing plane set and reuses existing maps so it's not perfect, but it's there.

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17 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

I'd also like a operation Barbarossa setting June 41 to get the I-153, SB-2, DB-3....but I dont really see what german planes you could add apart from almost identical variants of planes we already have.

Battle of Leningrad.

Battle can start on 25 June which is 3 days after Barbarossa.

Planeset can be an combination of German and Finnish aircraft.

Finland had quite some variety of aircraft from several nations like German/French/British/American/Dutch and even captured Soviet aircraft.

You also get an map which can be used all the way into mid 1944.

 

Other option could be Battle of Odessa/Crimea which could have an combination of German/Italian and Romanian aircraft, not sure what types exactly.

There is not much else of an option since the front moved very quickly.

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36 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

but I dont really see what german planes you could add

For Barbarossa? What about...

 

Do-17

HS-123 (I almost never fly German, but would LOVE to have a razz around in this lil beauty)

109-e4? (this may be too similar to the E7 we currently have, but, since drop tanks are coming....)

FW-189 (its so weird I love it, but probably limited application / appeal until reconnaissance gets tweaked)

 

Throw in a couple of Italian / Romanian birds?

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1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Nothing has been hinted at or announced and I suspect it will be another 12-16 months before we'll get to that point. That said, this subject has come up in a number of places recently and you'll hear everything from the Pacific, to the Mediterranean, to a Battle of Berlin. Years and years ago they even talked about trying to do Korea at some point.

 

IMHO, I'll be happy with anything so long as the series is continuing. Berlin would be a nice bookend and there's quite a few Yak-3/La-7 fans around.

Mediterrean please !!

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1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Berlin would be a nice bookend and there's quite a few Yak-3/La-7 fans around.

 

If you see Berlin as a bookend, how do you view Manchuria? Late model Soviet aircraft there too, even more so than Berlin, P-63 King-cobra for example. I'd also love to see some Nakajima in the BOX series :) 

 

============

 

I think the Battle of France would be an interesting and as far as I'm aware undone scenario and a good chunk of the mapping will be released with BoN and RoF. It would also provide a few aircraft for a Finland setting and vice versa, Morane Sauliner & Curtis P-36.

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29 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Speculating:

- La-7, Yak-3, Yak-9 (late), Fw-190A9, Bf-109G10
- Tu-2 OR Il-4 
- Ju-188 OR Do-217E
= 7 aircraft


To fill in the 3 missing aircraft:
- Possibly P-63 (supposedly limited to the Far East by treaty, but some evidence suggests one or two groups were used in the offensive to Berlin)

- Possibly Do-335 OR He-162 OR Ta-152 (hard to justify historically, but would sell - Il-10 also falls into this category).

- Possibly other earlier aircraft to fill in gaps with existing plane-sets (IAR-81, I-153, Ju-87D-5, A-20G, Lisunov Li-2, Fw-189, Fi-156, Ar-196)

 

Am I missing anything?

Bf109G-14/AS

Hs129B-3 (Courland)

Il2-1944 (With Arrow Wings)

P-39Q

Pe-2 1944 version

 

Ju87D-5 was still used against the Soviets till the end so that will likely be included.

Ta-152 will likely be included (If Berlin is chosen) since it's an popular aircraft and often requested, it was also active on several airfields in the general area near Berlin from early 1945.

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28 minutes ago, Diggun said:

For Barbarossa? What about...

 

Do-17

HS-123 (I almost never fly German, but would LOVE to have a razz around in this lil beauty)

109-e4? (this may be too similar to the E7 we currently have, but, since drop tanks are coming....)

FW-189 (its so weird I love it, but probably limited application / appeal until reconnaissance gets tweaked)

 

Throw in a couple of Italian / Romanian birds?

 

I like it. I remember kind of liking the IAR 80 from the old IL2. I mean it was adequate considering it was a romanian plane.

 

I thought about the DO-17 too. If memory serves it saw very limited action on the Eastern front because most of the DO-17s by June 1941 were already replaced by Ju88.

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1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

Possibly other earlier aircraft to fill in gaps with existing plane-sets (IAR-81, I-153, Ju-87D-5, A-20G, Lisunov Li-2, Fw-189, Fi-156, Ar-196)

I would like to add an early P40 (A or B or C) to that.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

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35 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

OMG, someone suggested a Do 335! Can you imagine how Awesome that would be. Battle of Berlin would be good.

 

S!Blade<><

DO 335 would be interesting in this game, but I would rather have Ta152 and He162 which saw at least some action.

Anyway what I like in late war scenario, is that you can use existing planes and add some rare interesting planes to mixup with the old FW and Bf.

I know that majority of people is not interested in such things, but Im 😀 Give me Ta152, He162 and La7 (and Me163 please please!)

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22 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

I like it. I remember kind of liking the IAR 80 from the old IL2. I mean it was adequate considering it was a romanian plane.

 

I preferred it to the Bf-109 in a lot of respects.

 

I think one argument for adding the IAR 80/81 is that it makes an excellent opponent for the I-16 and I-153!

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Another interesting thing... after doing 1945 Russia they could do an Operation Unthinkable scenario set in '47 or '48... (as a bridge towards Korea)

 

It would feature war breaking out between the former allies (as was considered in contingency planning at least). Any idea what the plane sets would be?

 

P-80, Meteor…? Yak-3 late, La-7 late? Mig I-250??

Mig-9?, Yak-15??, Il-10?

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1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

Another interesting thing... after doing 1945 Russia they could do an Operation Unthinkable scenario set in '47 or '48... 

Please no fantasy stuff.  Given the teams attention to detail and their commitment to accuracy I can't see them ever going that route either.  'Battle of Berlin' falls into this category too.

Something to ponder for people calling for aircraft XYZ;  

the producer of this series had to undertake a ten thousand mile round trip to photograph and take measurements of the cockpit of a well-known and well documented late war allied fighter to enable the team to model it accurately.  How easy is it going to be to model even something as well known as a Do17?

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I've said this across various threads but I think Malta would be a fantastic choice. It would have a little of everything including carriers and naval combat. 

With the timeline from 11 June 1940 – 20 November 1942 you would have some fantastic aircraft sets and mission types and the inclusion of Italy. 

 

malta-map.thumb.png.d0c931f1a03cbcd7b2c8773fccc82a34.png

Failing that Burma.

 

1943_World_War_II_Japanese_Aeronautical_Map_of_Burma_(_Myanmar_)_-_Geographicus_-_Burma7-wwii-1943.thumb.jpg.5288845775175db559efd431901ab7cd.jpg

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2019/04/06/winning-the-burma-air-battle-and-breaking-the-ground-siege-at-imphal/

 

A nice little article.

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56 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I've said this across various threads but I think Malta would be a fantastic choice. It would have a little of everything including carriers and naval combat. 

With the timeline from 11 June 1940 – 20 November 1942 you would have some fantastic aircraft sets and mission types and the inclusion of Italy. 

 

malta-map.thumb.png.d0c931f1a03cbcd7b2c8773fccc82a34.png

Failing that Burma.

 

1943_World_War_II_Japanese_Aeronautical_Map_of_Burma_(_Myanmar_)_-_Geographicus_-_Burma7-wwii-1943.thumb.jpg.5288845775175db559efd431901ab7cd.jpg

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2019/04/06/winning-the-burma-air-battle-and-breaking-the-ground-siege-at-imphal/

 

A nice little article.

 

This is easily one of the most exciting possible setting they could offer us. I dont remember ever seeing this theater of operations implemented in any ww2 airwar sim I've tried. Thats what I had in mind when I started this thread and mentionned maybe a mediterranean setting instead; Malta.

Edited by I./JG52_Woutwocampe
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8 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Please no fantasy stuff.  Given the teams attention to detail and their commitment to accuracy I can't see them ever going that route either.  'Battle of Berlin' falls into this category too.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at (the Battle of Berlin actually happened).

 

As for Operation Unthinkable... we have the declassified plans, and the aircraft used were all actually built (and exist in museums etc.) It is alternative history, but it certainly isn't that much harder to model than a 1950-1955 West Germany theatre would be (and that actually almost happened). As alternative history, I'll admit, it is lower priority.

 

One thing that would make sense: If they do Korea, they should also do a 1950-1955 module set in Europe as well... (that way they can use a lot of the research twice, produce a larger plane set, have a more balanced combated environment, and hopefully be more profitable overall...)

 

6 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

This is easily one of the most exciting possible setting they could offer us. I dont remember ever seeing this theater of operations implemented in any ww2 airwar sim I've tried. Thats what I had in mind when I started this thread and mentionned maybe a mediterranean setting instead; Malta.

 

There is Desert Wings: Tobruk... worth a try definitely for North Africa.

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18 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Greetings everyone.

 

With BON looming, are there thoughts for a future release which could add some late war planes such as the TU-2, the Yak 3, La7, 190F8 etc etc. Or will it go into a completely different direction with a pacific or mediterranean setting? 

 

What would you guys like after BON? Or is it the last installment before the release of a bran new sim with a new engine?

 

 

 

Clearly a 43/44 and a 44/45 timeframe module are sorely missing. Starting 1943 the VVS turned the table in the airwar in the east and I very much would like to have that represented in this game.

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Hi,

First the good news. At least I have 50 flyable planes in IL-2 BOX.  it will still take a while to master them all.😁

And 8 planes coming in the horizon. Good work and it will keep us busy on flying those...but we want more.

 

Missing from 1944/45 Eastern front are

 

USSR:

Yak-3 

La-7

P-39Q

Yak-9M

Yak-9U

Tu-2

Il-2 1944 "arrow wing"

Il-10 

 

Germany:

...actually we have all major variants... 

 

=>  Then why to always stick in the same product set up  4+1 allied & 4 +1 axis? 

There could be title called "Red star attack 1944"...or something  where we could get 8 Soviet planes + relevant eastern front map or 2 smaller maps?

 

:salute: JLean 

 

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20 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

IMHO, I'll be happy with anything so long as the series is continuing.

 

Same here and I'm hoping for a great BoN map. Then I won't mind too much on the theatre as long as it looks believable and adds to the immersion (yes I'm SP only...).

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8 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at (the Battle of Berlin actually happened).

 

As for Operation Unthinkable... we have the declassified plans, and the aircraft used were all actually built (and exist in museums etc.) It is alternative history, but it certainly isn't that much harder to model than a 1950-1955 West Germany theatre would be (and that actually almost happened). 

 

There certainly was a battle of Berlin  but there certainly wasn't an air battle for Berlin in any meaningful sense.  Are the devs really going to model a city the size of Berlin for a non-existent battle?

 

War in Europe did not 'actually almost' occur between 1950-1955. Quite the reverse in fact. The Korean war came as a surprise to the Soviets and the death of Stalin in '53 meant all foreign policy decisions were put on hold until a new leadership established itself.

 

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Just now, DD_Arthur said:

but there certainly wasn't an air battle for Berlin

Maybe we need 'Battle of Oder–Neisse' or 'Battle of Seelow Heights'?

 

Seem to remember there was a very good Seelow Heights map in '46. Great fun razzing around in an il-10... 

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2 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

There certainly was a battle of Berlin  but there certainly wasn't an air battle for Berlin in any meaningful sense.  Are the devs really going to model a city the size of Berlin for a non-existent battle?

Battle of Berlin could be the name of the product similar to Bodenplatte, Career could start on 02/02/1945 which is when the Vistula-Oder Offensive ended and the soviets reached the Oder river, this gives us an 3 month career mode till the end of the war.

 

Berlin could be similar made either like the Normandy map (London/Paris center outside the map) or the Moscow map (Moscow visible but not flyable), map could be concentrated either North or South of the Berlinborder, North we have more bases where the Ta152 where operational and South we can extend the career mode till 11/05/1945 to include the Prague Offensive.

 

Depending on the mapside allied airfields (British/American) could even be included for the last weeks of the war.

 

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1 hour ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Battle of Berlin could be the name of the product similar to Bodenplatte, Career could start on 02/02/1945 which is when the Vistula-Oder Offensive ended and the soviets reached the Oder river, this gives us an 3 month career mode till the end of the war.

 

Berlin could be similar made either like the Normandy map (London/Paris center outside the map) or the Moscow map (Moscow visible but not flyable), map could be concentrated either North or South of the Berlinborder, North we have more bases where the Ta152 where operational and South we can extend the career mode till 11/05/1945 to include the Prague Offensive.

 

Depending on the mapside allied airfields (British/American) could even be included for the last weeks of the war.

 

Congratulations:salute:. This is the most sensible and realistic proposal concerning late war operations I've seen.  

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2 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Career could start on 02/02/1945 which is when the Vistula-Oder Offensive

 

I was thinking of the end of Bagration/Lvov–Sandomierz Offensive ending at the front of Warsaw to the beginning of the Vistula-Oder operation. This would give some realistic parity due to the Soviet shortages of planes/runways and some static air bases at the end of the operations. The Germans both moved forces to the front and had the advantage of hardened runways that the Soviets did not have. The we'd have the Soviet build up for the V-O operation, and the small German counterattacks, followed up by the offensive. Most of the late war planes are available to both sides.

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One could just about tag a map the same size as BoBp to the eastern edge of the BoBp map and have it run just across the Oder river.

 

538748806_mp.thumb.jpg.3c27582f81d740dd02cf3044a1540525.jpg

 

The left rectangle is just about the current size of the BoBp map (drawn from memory, so might be off a few km).

 

The other two rectangles might be maps one could build at roughly the same size, sparing out the Berlin area.

Edited by Bremspropeller
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I think Vistula/Oder operation is most likely. The soviets reached the vistula 8/44 and then the front remained relatively stable there until 01/45. The race across Poland including lower silesia an pommerania offensive was finished around 30 march when they reached or already crossed the Oder nearly everywhere. They reached Kuestrin around 02. Feb 45, and there they prepared for the last step across the Oder for Berlin. Seelow heights was 16th-19th april and all was over in Berlin 2 weeks later at 02/05/45 with Weidling surrendering the town.

 

So I could imagine a map roughly from Lodz to aprox. 60km west of Frankfurt/Oder which might include the eastern outskirts of Berlin. Sensible timeframe would be 01/45-04/45. That map would be aprox the size of the BoBP map. If Warsaw is to be included the map has to be significantly larger than the BoBP map, which is IMHO unlikely.

 

On a front nearly 1,000 miles wide, over 2.2 million Soviet soldiers, 6,400 tanks and assault guns, and 5,000 aircraft attacked westward into Poland in one of history's largest battles.

 

map

Edited by sevenless
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