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ThePutzmann

Small and Painless Aiming Overhaul

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Good day everyone!

 

I have bought Tank Crew about a month ago and enjoyed every single bit of it. Really hope that it gets many more updates.

 

One thing that has been bothering me is the aiming system on the tanks. To continuously traverse the turret, you have to continuously move your mouse to the left/right. Since my mouse pad isn't endless, I have to swipe my mouse from left to right/right to left all the time to prevent running out of space on the pad.

 

A solution to this would be to redo the aiming system to make it similiar to the aiming system of the tank sim "Steel Beasts". There, you don't have to move your mouse continiuously to traverse the turret continuously but rather move it to a certain point to get a certain traverse speed. The further you put your cursor to the right/left of the center of the crosshair, the faster the turret traverses to the right/left. The closer you put the cursor to the right/left of the center of the crosshair, the slower your turret traverses. If you put your cursor directly on or close beside the center of the crosshair, your turret doesn't move at all. Basically, just how it would work with a joystick. The more you move the stick to the right/left, the faster the turret traverses in that direction and vice versa. This would provide you with a fluent turret traverse without having to buy a joystick. 

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There is at least one other thread discussing this if you are interested. Believe it or not, it use to work much better, similar to what you just described, but it was changed to what we have now a couple of patches ago. If you are interested, you might consider posting your request over on the suggestion forum. Thanks.

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Regarding the mouse, I have to agree: it used to be better a few patches ago;

However, I have switched to using the joystick for Turret/Gun movement and I am quite satisfied with that system. Did you try using a joystick?

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32 minutes ago, Hermod said:

Did you try using a joystick?

 

I can't try it out since I don't have one but I nevertheless have no doubt that the joystick works way better than the mouse. You could say "Buy a joystick then and you won't have any problems". The thing is, I don't see why I have to buy a joystick even though the problem could be easily fixed, which would remove the need for a joystick. Futhermore, the game would become more accessible if you didn't have to buy a joystick on top of a 70$ game. 

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1 hour ago, ThePutzmann said:

 

I can't try it out since I don't have one but I nevertheless have no doubt that the joystick works way better than the mouse. You could say "Buy a joystick then and you won't have any problems". The thing is, I don't see why I have to buy a joystick even though the problem could be easily fixed, which would remove the need for a joystick. Futhermore, the game would become more accessible if you didn't have to buy a joystick on top of a 70$ game. 

The other side to that coin is that there was no reason to change the way the mouse interface worked just because they added a joystick control. But that is what happened.

Edited by LachenKrieg
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You all assume such things are easy. They are not. People complained we did not have joystick support for tank turrets so we added it. Aiming by any device is interconnected so changed occur to support everyone best we can. I'm not sure it can go back to the way it was.

 

Jason

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Please don’t change it back.  The change to add joystick support was probably the best thing you did for TC.

 

1 minute ago, Jason_Williams said:

You all assume such things are easy. They are not. People complained we did not have joystick support for tank turrets so we added it. Aiming by any device is interconnected so changed occur to support everyone best we can. I'm not sure it can go back to the way it was.

 

Jason

 

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2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Please don’t change it back.  The change to add joystick support was probably the best thing you did for TC.

 

 

 

Amen!

 

Using pedals for traverse and stick for up/down/fire.

 

It really made the TC experience much more immersive.

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9 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Using pedals for traverse ...

 

 

What do you use for steering the tank, JM?

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2 hours ago, BP_Lizard said:

What do you use for steering the tank, JM?

 

 

4 way hat on the throttle

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Try switching to the joystick.  You won't go back once you've tried it! It is way smoother than the mouse.And the thing you're talking about,when you move the turret to a certain spot it moves faster-it is possible to do with the joystick!😀

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Totally agree.

 

I'm seriously asking myself "How could I miss this all the time?"😅

 

@Jade_Monkey: Thank you, for lighten up my blindness

Edited by easterling77

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6 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

You all assume such things are easy. They are not. People complained we did not have joystick support for tank turrets so we added it. Aiming by any device is interconnected so changed occur to support everyone best we can. I'm not sure it can go back to the way it was.

 

Jason

Thank you for your input.

 

TBH, I never got the impression that anyone was suggesting the issues behind this were easy, just that it is possible as seen elsewhere. But this issue has also been discussed before and it is the first time I hear anyone inform the user base here that the two control devices are interconnected. I am quite pleased that joystick control has been added to Tank Crew, and certainly wouldn't asked that it be removed. But if you are telling me that the current setup was made to optimize support for everyone, then I will have to accept it until I change to a joystick.

 

Thanks again.

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11 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

You all assume such things are easy. They are not. People complained we did not have joystick support for tank turrets so we added it. Aiming by any device is interconnected so changed occur to support everyone best we can. I'm not sure it can go back to the way it was.

 

Jason

 

Hi Jason,

 

Thank you very much for your explanations!

 

What about the proposal explained below? Could you please implement it?

 

When you select to control the turret rotation (and main gun elevation) using the joystick, then you can also use the A, D, W, S keys to rotate the turret and change the elevation of the main gun.

 

However, when you select the mouse to control the turret then the keys A, D, W, S do not work. Why?

 

Could you please allow us to control the turret rotation and gun elevation with the A, D, W, S keys in any case,  even when selecting the mouse to control the turret? It would be really useful!

 

Txema

 

 

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14 hours ago, RIVALDO said:

Try switching to the joystick.  You won't go back once you've tried it!😀

I tried (I also tried the pedals) and came back! 😃

It's not easy I think. On the other hand, it is probably more immersive. I have the impression to first adjust the horizontal then the vertical* whereas with the mouse I do both at the same time.

I think I'm not very good at coordinating my actions 😁

 

*This is probably what they were doing at the time.

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I use my rudder pedals for tank left and right steering control. Throttle for forward and reverse. Joystick for turret traverse and elevation. It works perfect. Maybe 'mousers' need a bigger mouse pad.:ph34r: A very qualified tanker will only traverse from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock 90% of the time, thereby keeping their frontal armor to the enemy. I have used the current mouse controls and IMHO it is MUCH, MUCH better than it was before this current change. My vote = please do not change the current joystick application as it works perfectly fine. Just a thought.

 

S!Blade<><

Edited by BladeMeister

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2 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

I use my rudder pedals for tank left and right steering control. Throttle for forward and reverse. Joystick for turret traverse and elevation. It works perfect. Maybe 'mousers' need a bigger mouse pad.:ph34r:A very qualified tanker will only traverse from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock 90% of the time, thereby keeping their frontal armor to the enemy. I have used the current mouse controls and IMHO it is MUCH, MUCH better than it was before this current change. My vote = please do not change the current joystick application as it works perfectly fine. Just a thought.

 

S!Blade<><

I really enjoy reading your posts, so I hope my comments here are not taken as a criticism directed at you, but it seems more likely to me that the bold text above could only be possible if your enemy cooperated by staying within your 10 to 2-O'clock field of view, or that they would agree to never show up unannounced and from an unknown direction.

 

But I do get how many here enjoy using a joystick.

 

Something I was interested to know more about is how the command interface works with a joystick. I am assuming that after you hit the "Tilde" key, you move the round targeting icon around using the joystick?

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2 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

I really enjoy reading your posts, so I hope my comments here are not taken as a criticism directed at you, but it seems more likely to me that the bold text above could only be possible if your enemy cooperated by staying within your 10 to 2-O'clock field of view, or that they would agree to never show up unannounced and from an unknown direction.

 

But I do get how many here enjoy using a joystick.

 

Something I was interested to know more about is how the command interface works with a joystick. I am assuming that after you hit the "Tilde" key, you move the round targeting icon around using the joystick?

Yep. Just like with the mouse  but less jerky. And someone mentioned moving horizontally and vertically at the same time earlier.  Joystick does it well.I do it all the time. 

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4 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

I really enjoy reading your posts, so I hope my comments here are not taken as a criticism directed at you, but it seems more likely to me that the bold text above could only be possible if your enemy cooperated by staying within your 10 to 2-O'clock field of view, or that they would agree to never show up unannounced and from an unknown direction.

 

But I do get how many here enjoy using a joystick.

 

Something I was interested to know more about is how the command interface works with a joystick. I am assuming that after you hit the "Tilde" key, you move the round targeting icon around using the joystick?

No exception taken. I said 90% of the time though. I don't know about you but I am constantly putting my enemy between my 10 & 2 by turning my hull to the deadliest enemy or when scouting I am traversing my turret between 10 & 2 to spot enemies.  I get it that sometimes you get surprised, flanked or dive into the battle line to far and have to traverse further, but that should be a very rare instance. If one likes to play Rambo and rush in, stop and then use their turret to target beyond 10 & 2 then they are exposing themselves to complete destruction to easily anyway. Urban fighting where quarters are to tight to turn the hull are a different matter, but where in the TC map do we have that?  My thought for mousers was to use the 10 & 2 rule to lessen turret traversing, thus easing their pain for moving the mouse horizontally so far. Also if your mouse mat is rectangular like mine, turn it sideways for more side to side travel.

As to command key targeting, I have used the mouse myself, but now I will try the joystick tonight. I use TIR5 so it can get tricky to do for me. I have a button on my joystick to stop TIR, I push ~ and then I grab the mouse to target and finish the command and then enable TIR once more when finished. I use the exact same procedure when using the Binocs.

In the end I doubt everyone will be totally satisfied, but IMHO it is better now for the mouse and joystick users then it was before the joystick turret control update. I am really thankful that 1C made that option available.

 

S!Blade<><

 

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Use a joystick with a twist rudder function (ala X52). I use the twist for left and right and the forward / backwards for up down. hence i can move through both planes as i traverse.

I also use the rudder pedals for the moving the tanks left and right. works a treat.

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11 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

No exception taken. I said 90% of the time though. I don't know about you but I am constantly putting my enemy between my 10 & 2 by turning my hull to the deadliest enemy or when scouting I am traversing my turret between 10 & 2 to spot enemies.  I get it that sometimes you get surprised, flanked or dive into the battle line to far and have to traverse further, but that should be a very rare instance. If one likes to play Rambo and rush in, stop and then use their turret to target beyond 10 & 2 then they are exposing themselves to complete destruction to easily anyway. Urban fighting where quarters are to tight to turn the hull are a different matter, but where in the TC map do we have that?  My thought for mousers was to use the 10 & 2 rule to lessen turret traversing, thus easing their pain for moving the mouse horizontally so far. Also if your mouse mat is rectangular like mine, turn it sideways for more side to side travel.

As to command key targeting, I have used the mouse myself, but now I will try the joystick tonight. I use TIR5 so it can get tricky to do for me. I have a button on my joystick to stop TIR, I push ~ and then I grab the mouse to target and finish the command and then enable TIR once more when finished. I use the exact same procedure when using the Binocs.

In the end I doubt everyone will be totally satisfied, but IMHO it is better now for the mouse and joystick users then it was before the joystick turret control update. I am really thankful that 1C made that option available.

 

S!Blade<><

 

But my point was that things on the battle field are dynamic, and it would be convenient if battles occurred one at a time to enable the opportunity for you to always (90% of the time) keep your armor facing the enemy. But in real life I am afraid to say that never happened. I can think of quite a few reasons why you would need to turn your turret without hull traverse, one of the most obvious being your vehicle has been tracked and you have a threat on flank, or behind you.

 

But the issues of using a mouse since that update are not really related to armor vehicle tactics, and it would be unreasonable to suggest that anyone using a mouse can simply use a 10-2 rule to fix it! You are admittedly using a joystick, so you couldn't possibly be experiencing the game the way I am since that update. So when I comment about the quality of my experience using the SIM, I am making my comments from the perspective of a mouse user before and after the update.

 

But your last post raises another question for me. When you first start up the game, you are asked to select either "mouse", or "joystick" interface control. If you select joystick as your control interface, are you still able to use your mouse on screen?

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You have your tactics, I have mine. We obviously use TC in different ways. If you get tracked then yes you are screwed. Maybe the W, A, S, Z keys would work better for turret control?

Yes the mouse still works onscreen when joystick is chosen.

 

S!Blade<><

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18 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

Something I was interested to know more about is how the command interface works with a joystick. I am assuming that after you hit the "Tilde" key, you move the round targeting icon around using the joystick?

The answer is no: you do not use the joystick to move the round targeting icon. That is still controlled by the mouse or the movement of your head, if a headtracker is enabled. The latter is quite inconvenient by the way. I always switch the headtracker off when driving a tank. 

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32 minutes ago, Hermod said:

The answer is no: you do not use the joystick to move the round targeting icon. That is still controlled by the mouse or the movement of your head, if a headtracker is enabled. The latter is quite inconvenient by the way. I always switch the headtracker off when driving a tank. 

Agreed, I tried this last night and forgot to give feedback. I like TIR5 on for all operations except Binocs, targeting or designating movement orders with the red circle. I think TIR5 ups the immersion a little when inside the tank. I just wish they would animate the loader actually loading the shells. To me that would be more immersive also. Steel Fury 1942 has loader animations for quite a few of their tanks and it looks really good in action.

 

S!Blade<><

Edited by BladeMeister
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22 hours ago, Hermod said:

Just started a topic in suggestions...

For me, the game has some issues there.

The Track IR is generally nice but as you mentioned, in some situations it becomes painful.

Without Track IR, there is no more this painful side on the other hand, you cannot move the camera when you alternate the views (when you stick your face to the windows / periscope).

I don't understand why you have to "choose". Why can't I move the view with my mouse without Track IR?

 

As I had already said in another subject, they would have to add a free look to be able to look around us without "leaving what one has in hand"

Edited by No_Face

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5 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

You have your tactics, I have mine. We obviously use TC in different ways. If you get tracked then yes you are screwed. Maybe the W, A, S, Z keys would work better for turret control?

Yes the mouse still works onscreen when joystick is chosen.

 

S!Blade<><

 

4 hours ago, Hermod said:

The answer is no: you do not use the joystick to move the round targeting icon. That is still controlled by the mouse or the movement of your head, if a headtracker is enabled. The latter is quite inconvenient by the way. I always switch the headtracker off when driving a tank. 

The reason I asked is because apparently the mouse and joystick in IL2 are somehow connected. If that is the case, then maybe the problem is somehow connected to here? It still doesn't explain the limited mouse movement though.

 

Is it possible to assign keys to control turret motion?

Edited by LachenKrieg

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3 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

 

Is it possible to assign keys to control turret motion?

I don't know if that is possible, I was just making a suggestion. If it is not, then maybe that is something the Devs could try. I think that is possible in SF42??

 

S!Blade<><

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4 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

Is it possible to assign keys to control turret motion?

Yes, in direct mode.

(So you have to select "joystick" in "Tank Turret Control")

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2 hours ago, No_Face said:

Yes, in direct mode.

(So you have to select "joystick" in "Tank Turret Control")

Does it work well? Better than the current mouse control?

 

S!Blade<><

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3 hours ago, No_Face said:

Yes, in direct mode.

(So you have to select "joystick" in "Tank Turret Control")

So I am not in the game at the moment. Does direct mode mean I have to select joystick control? I don't have a joystick. And is "Tank Turret Control" one of the settings in Key-bindings? after selecting joystick in "Tank Turret Control", how do you assign keys to Left, Right, Up, Down? 

 

 

3 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

I don't know if that is possible, I was just making a suggestion. If it is not, then maybe that is something the Devs could try. I think that is possible in SF42??

 

S!Blade<><

Thanks for the suggestion, because I doubt I will be running out to get a joystick any time soon. But just to be clear, I am not knocking the logic of wanting to keep your armor facing the enemy, I just don't see how a discussion about issues related to which control device I use is related to how I might fight a battle.

Edited by LachenKrieg

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Hey All,

 

purchased Tank Battles this week and getting everything sorted. 
 

I cant seem to get turret control to work on my joystick. 
Any hints. 
 

from reading this thread, is there a way to toggle between joystick mode and mouse.

 

tilde?

Edited by AH_Hollywood

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Go to settings

 

4th from above

 

Tank Turret Controll set to Joystick - does this work for you?

 

My settings are running without any issues

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5 hours ago, AH_Hollywood said:

Hey All,

 

purchased Tank Battles this week and getting everything sorted. 
 

I cant seem to get turret control to work on my joystick. 
Any hints. 
 

from reading this thread, is there a way to toggle between joystick mode and mouse.

 

tilde?

Went through this for the first time last night. When you start the game, you are asked to select either mouse, or joystick control. I think you should be good to go from there.

 

But you can always go to settings,... Input devices,... Control mode. From here you will want to make sure that the setting for "Tank Turret Control' is set to joystick, because you can have your input device set to mouse, and still control the turret with a joystick. Next you will want to go back to the main menu and select key-bindings to make any further adjustments there.

 

For me, I used direct control to assign key presses for turret control. And for anyone that has been following this thread and interested to know what you have to do, and what it was like, here it is:

 

I set key-bindings for hull movement on the W, A, S, D keys, and turret movement on the up, down, right, left cursor keys. I also reassigned key-bindings for primary/secondary fire, gun sight zoom, and reload MG.

 

If you are looking for a more immersive experience, then you might like the improvement in gun control that this setup brings. Having a long history of using the WASD + mouse setup to control an AFV, I can definitely feel the difference. One thing to consider, especially for the pilots here, is instead of using the up cursor key to increase elevation of the main gun, use the down cursor as it will more closely match how you have already trained your eye-hand coordination to react.

 

But on the flip side, you might find having to go back to the mouse for certain things an immersion killer. The other thing to consider is the AI when in single player mode. In a multi-player match where everyone is using this setup, it would definitely add to the realism of the game world. But in a game where AI has laser-like accuracy, and can shoot through forests, you might find using a mouse to control the turret more enjoyable.

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14 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Does it work well? Better than the current mouse control?

 

S!Blade<><

Humm, yes and no. ( This answer is very useful!) 😄

Yes because you can turn your turret 360 ° without any problem, you just have to hold down the key. You will not have a jerk(*), it will be fluid.

No because there is acceleration at the start of the movement. (If the movement was represented in graph, it is not a line but a curve).

Second point that bothers me, it is not possible (in my eyes) to be precise when you want to shift your viewfinder slightly. You will have to tap so as not to move it too much (like when you are in a tank without a turret and you try to line up the gun on the enemy by rotating your tracks).

(Even with full zoom)

 

*I have great doubts about the translation of this word. I hope this is neither vulgar nor perverse. 😅

 

 

14 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

Does direct mode mean I have to select joystick control? I don't have a joystick.

Yes, you don't need to have a joystick to use direct mode, it's not very clear.

(I do not answer the rest of your question because you seem to have found)

Edited by No_Face

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6 hours ago, easterling77 said:

Go to settings

 

4th from above

 

Tank Turret Controll set to Joystick - does this work for you?

 

My settings are running without any issues

 That did the trick. 
 

if it was a snake it would have bitten me. 
 

big help. Thx

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2 hours ago, No_Face said:

Humm, yes and no. ( This answer is very useful!) 😄

Yes because you can turn your turret 360 ° without any problem, you just have to hold down the key. You will not have a jerk(*), it will be fluid.

No because there is acceleration at the start of the movement. (If the movement was represented in graph, it is not a line but a curve).

Second point that bothers me, it is not possible (in my eyes) to be precise when you want to shift your viewfinder slightly. You will have to tap so as not to move it too much (like when you are in a tank without a turret and you try to line up the gun on the enemy by rotating your tracks).

(Even with full zoom)

 

*I have great doubts about the translation of this word. I hope this is neither vulgar nor perverse. 😅

 

 

Yes, you don't need to have a joystick to use direct mode, it's not very clear.

(I do not answer the rest of your question because you seem to have found)

Thanks for the reply.

 

To your two points, I will have to pay more attention to the acceleration next time I'm in, but considering the weight of a turret, it makes sense to me that there could be a very slight delay before the turret reaches its max traverse speed. And I agree, it is much harder to be precise with this setup, much like it was in real life. When we use a mouse to control the turret, we point at the pixel we want to aim at, and the game moves the gun there for us. But unless everything else is modeled to be completely accurate, and currently it is not, then there is still room to make a very strong argument for mouse control of the turret.

 

One of the biggest setbacks with using direct control/key presses to control the turret IMO is the number of keys you use up in the process. When you use a mouse, you are adding at least 3 keys instead of losing at least 6. I think if you are going to go the direct control route, you really should consider going all in and set it up like @BladeMeister and others have described. Pedals to steer with the ability to vary throttle, while enjoying the improved tactile reference of a joystick. The only other way to heighten the level of immersion would be to multi-crew so that the driver focuses just on driving, the gunner focuses just on targeting, the radio operator keeps a watchful eye on close perimeter defense,  and the commander coordinates it all.

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2 minutes ago, LachenKrieg said:

The only other way to heighten the level of immersion would be to multi-crew so that the driver focuses just on driving, the gunner focuses just on targeting, the radio operator keeps a watchful eye on close perimeter defense,  and the commander coordinates it all.

 

I think that you don't really need a dedicated driver and radio operator. The gunner focuses on gunning, the commander focuses on searching for targets and commanding the tank which includes giving the driver commands on what to do (So the commander is basically driving the tank). So having a dedicated driver would be more immersive, but it isn't necessary, since the commander can do it just as well as the driver. The radio operator in this game is pretty much obsolete. His FOV is very small, so he is of no use spotting targets. Also, you don't really need the hull MG (at least in this state of the game), since you have one in the turret anyways. 

 

Are there any multicrew multiplayer servers that are at least somewhat populated?

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