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What have I missed and for how long?

Is this a lucky strike or has something happened with wingman ai behavior I was no aware of?

I missed the old IL 2 campaign and said to myself,"what the heck, I take on the earliest possible career start for IL 2 and see how long I live. 

And what do I get? I get realistic leader and wingmen. Attacking repeatedly using all their ammo. And formation flying all the way home. With escort all the way. This is my first career I can say this about, but I abandoned it early last year, many of them. Out of wingmen and escort frustration. Way to go

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Now that 1CGS has been able to hire an AI programmer again, we've seen small incremental changes every patch in how the AI performs. It's getting better at formation flying, strafing and ground attack in general, and defensive maneuvering.

 

Welcome back 😎

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There have been steady improvements every month I think. Been doing sp all this time and it keeps on progressing.  Its biggest current weakness is dealing with the gloc modelling but even then AI shows some kind of logics.

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1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

What have I missed and for how long?

 

Ahh, someone sees the light...😊 Yes the AI has been constantly improving over the last 2 years. However the AI is still doing very silly things and can fly some planes better than others, but there seems to be hope for improvement and 777/1C is obviously on the right track.

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1 hour ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

As long as I got a feel of realism in the behavior I am good, I lost two wingmen just now colliding in formation, but still it is a total diferent feel to it now than before

 

I have 100 hours in Career mode and only seen a collision in formation once, and honestly it kind of seemed realistic to me.  I have read a few WW2 pilot memoirs and I am always astonished by the amount of non combat accidents and deaths that happened while in formation, taking off, landing, and training. 

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I have been gone for a while as well and came back recently (got BOB and previously had already BOM and BOS from Steam), but I cannot say the same that I see AI improvement. AI still chase me over 100 miles to my airport ignoring any other aircrafts. It is really silly and funny, AI trying to shoot me down above my own base and 7 other Spitfires slowly landing one by one right in the middle of it. Once AI gets fixed on you, nothing can get them out... until they crash.... hmmmmmm. 

 

I hope one day the career will be playable and AI at least reasonable. I will keep buying il2 products to support the team in hope of improvements in the future, but after a few missions I have usually enough. :(

Edited by sevsterino
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1 hour ago, sevsterino said:

still chase me

Well I think this depend on what career. Flying only one career at the moment. IL 2. 

I can only say as long as escort is following me home they deal with this sort of thing. 

I fly medium difficulty 5 mission so far. Full realism. And albeit, loosing some escort due to no more ammo , I can see that I sofar have had at least 1 followed me home. And my fellow squad mates are just that. They act like fellow squad mates. I am impressed by this 

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I too have recently found that campaigns are a much better experience compared to even a year ago. We are definitely getting there!

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2 hours ago, sevsterino said:

AI still chase me over 100 miles to my airport ignoring any other aircrafts. It is really silly and funny, AI trying to shoot me down above my own base and 7 other Spitfires slowly landing one by one right in the middle of it. Once AI gets fixed on you, nothing can get them out... until they crash.... hmmmmmm. 

 

In my current p47 campaign I've had multiple instances of "chasers" breaking off and giving up.  One chased me for a while until I saw a couple thunderbolt stragglers from another group about 5 miles to my left, I flew as fast as I could to get to them, flew through their formation putting the 190 between them and I, and as soon as the 190 saw the other two fighters, he broke off and ran home without even taking a shot.  I was pretty amazed.

 

One other time (same campaign) had 3 109s chasing me because I was straggling trying to get "one last kill" on the ground targets in our mission so I was lagging way behind my group (I deserved to get chased).  I was completely out of ammo, and ran on the deck as fast as I could to the frontline.  Once they got past the border and saw an some vehicles, presumably aaa, they broke off and ran to the nearest base.  So something is definitely going on.

Edited by Boogdud
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Boogdud said:

So something is definitely going on.

Edited 3 hours ago by Boogdud

I had 4 careers for bombers 3 for attackers and two fighter careers going 9 to 10 month ago. I deleted them all due to ai behavior both friendly and enemy. Since then something definitely has happened, it is like night and day

Now I have one. Flown six missions.  Going for two today. And I consider restarting it and take hard . 

This was the purpose of my post. I managed 153 missions survived back in the old days before I taxied into a wingtip with my wingtip and my plane exploded. 

I want to make sure I got the most realistic settings. How dence and how difficult should it be and still survive as and aaa snipers 

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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21 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Question for mission makers or devs: what mission elements cause AI to break off?

 

I'd of thought you'd taken advantage of such logic by now.

 

There are a number of methods to make the AI break off...basically you can use any condition or trigger that you want.

For instance if there are 6 109's, I will make them "bug out" when 4 of them are killed, or if their flight lead is killed, or when Lead is bingo ammo, or after

a certain amount of time, etc, etc etc. 

You simply plug your condition into a "Force Complete" MCU, then an RTB waypoint with priority set to "HIGH"

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I'd of thought you'd taken advantage of such logic by now.

 

There are a number of methods to make the AI break off...basically you can use any condition or trigger that you want.

For instance if there are 6 109's, I will make them "bug out" when 4 of them are killed, or if their flight lead is killed, or when Lead is bingo ammo, or after

a certain amount of time, etc, etc etc. 

You simply plug your condition into a "Force Complete" MCU, then an RTB waypoint with priority set to "HIGH"

 

 

 

I was wondering if there was something new.  

 

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18 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I was wondering if there was something new.  

 

 

VikS might be using the available logic to better effect, but there is no new logic.

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Recently in my Rhineland career I flew from Nijmegen to Gilze flat out at zero (and I really do mean zero) feet in a Spitfire IXe pursued by four AI K4s and two AI D9s, with all of them after my blood.

 

By the time I arrived at Gilze five out of the six pursing AIs had crashed into the ground and the sixth one, a D9, flew a few circuits over my base, drawing some highly ineffective flak from the AI gunners, before losing interest and flying off back east.

 

In my opinion the AI still has some room for improvement in this sim because I should not have made it halfway home in that situation, let alone manoeuvre kill five out of six pursuing aircraft on the way.

 

But at least I know what to do next time in that situation, even though I wouldn't get away with it if it was human players involved.

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33 minutes ago, Vortice said:

Recently in my Rhineland career I flew from Nijmegen to Gilze flat out at zero (and I really do mean zero) feet in a Spitfire IXe pursued by four AI K4s and two AI D9s, with all of them after my blood.

 

By the time I arrived at Gilze five out of the six pursing AIs had crashed into the ground and the sixth one, a D9, flew a few circuits over my base, drawing some highly ineffective flak from the AI gunners, before losing interest and flying off back east.

 

In my opinion the AI still has some room for improvement in this sim because I should not have made it halfway home in that situation, let alone manoeuvre kill five out of six pursuing aircraft on the way.

 

But at least I know what to do next time in that situation, even though I wouldn't get away with it if it was human players involved.

 

This happens to me as well. It's the same with the other campaigns. I think the IA should disengage after chasing to for 5 minutes or so. Especially if you are over friendly territory. Although i i would suspect that German pilots where being chased all the way to their home base (At least during the Rhineland campaign). It's a though thing to do right.

 

The one thing though that really grinds my gears is that the AI scrambles as soon as you (Jabo or fighter bomber pilot) attacks and homes in on you like some kind of Jedi/Sith warrior and is able to constantly track your positions and will chase you back to your base. This even happens when they are quite far away from you when scrambling. 

 

Grt M

Edited by I./ZG1_Dutchvdm
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3 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

This happens to me as well. It's the same with the other campaigns. I think the IA should disengage after chasing to for 5 minutes or so. Especially if you are over friendly territory. Although i i would suspect that German pilots where being chased all the way to their home base (At least during the Rhineland campaign). It's a though thing to do right.

Something I noticed lately, concerns me much more. In escort missions, after we escorted the bombers/ground attack aircrafts back to their base and get the command to RTB, instead of flying back to our base, my flight turns back to enemy territory to fight the enemy fighters they left there after disengaging to escort the bombers home.

 

6 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

The one thing though that really grinds my gears is that the AI scrambles as soon as you (Jabo or fighter bomber pilot) attacks and homes in on you like some kind of Jedi/Sith warrior and is able to constantly track your positions and will chase you back to your base. This even happens when they are quite far away from you when scrambling. 

Hmmm, a wild guess from my side. Might it be, that the enemy owns maps and has an idea, where airfields are positioned, and is able to guess, whích airfield you are flying to, after following you some distance before losing you?

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3 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Hmmm, a wild guess from my side. Might it be, that the enemy owns maps and has an idea, where airfields are positioned, and is able to guess, whích airfield you are flying to, after following you some distance before losing you?

 

I think they might want to simulate this. That might be true. I don't know what is realistic to expect, but the result now is that they follow you like some kind of homing missile. They do not intercept you like you might expect. Maybe someone from the dev team or a mission builder can explain what the used logic is here.

 

Grt M

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On 1/4/2021 at 8:18 PM, 216th_LuseKofte said:

As long as I got a feel of realism in the behavior I am good, I lost two wingmen just now colliding in formation, but still it is a total diferent feel to it now than before

 

Well collisions did happen IRL.... maybe it is by design? 😄

 

You feel a big difference because you haven't played SP in a long time. If you had, you would have felt an incremental increase. Which is good, as long as if gets polished out little by little but constantly, I have nothing but praise.

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35 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Hmmm, a wild guess from my side. Might it be, that the enemy owns maps and has an idea, where airfields are positioned, and is able to guess, whích airfield you are flying to, after following you some distance before losing you?

 

Just assume the enemy is being vectored to your home station by their control HQ, obviously they have an insanely brilliant intelligence section that never gets it wrong!

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And awacs ! And balls of steel and permanent feel of air superiority, even in rheineland ! And no fear of allies air cover since there is none, and friendlies happily get slaughtered with no reaction whatsoever when landing !

 

Glad you're happy Lusekofte, hope it lasts; my own rheineland tempest careers have all been very short and very not fun. Same for kuban (attacked at landing, no friendly air cover, useless friendly aaa) so didn't even bother to try again stalingrad/moscow.

Edited by KGM_Roll
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5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Something I noticed lately, concerns me much more. In escort missions, after we escorted the bombers/ground attack aircrafts back to their base and get the command to RTB, instead of flying back to our base, my flight turns back to enemy territory to fight the enemy fighters they left there after disengaging to escort the bombers home.

 

Please, please, please post such mission files so the devs can see what is going on. :) It'll help fix things like that much more quickly.

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do ground attack missions still make your flight drop their bombs on AA units and ignore the actual target? I stopped playing several careers because of that bad AI behavior.

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3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Please, please, please post such mission files so the devs can see what is going on. :) It'll help fix things like that much more quickly.

How can I know if it wasn't changed on purpose? There are constantly changes. Since one of the latest patches the 190 A3 is flying with MG/FFs again, the 109 F4 and following are flying bomber/ground attack aircraft intercept missions with gunpods, the F4 is flying without armored windscreen (except in the intercept missions).

I can't even imagine, how one could make escort fighters accidentially fly back into enemy territory to kill everything flying around there.

 

3 hours ago, Sybreed said:

do ground attack missions still make your flight drop their bombs on AA units and ignore the actual target? I stopped playing several careers because of that bad AI behavior.

Nothing changed. With very few exceptions they still attack mainly AAA. Or in attack armored columns missions, the escorting recon tanks instead of the heavy and medium tanks.

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38 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

How can I know if it wasn't changed on purpose?

 

All you can do is post the file with a description of what you're seeing, and then let the developers decide if there's a problem.

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IMHO, as far as AI is concerned, E/A behavior may have improved a little more than that of friendlies. At least, when you're on their six, they just don't stand there like sitting ducks waiting to be shot. They take evasive actions and are much more difficult to shoot down than in the past. And when they chase you into your territory while RTB, they eventually abandon the chase if you manage to put some distance between you and them. You will still attract them like a magnet though, the moment they spot you, and they will spot you...Specifically...Re friendly AI : it seems like sometimes there is more cohesiveness during escort duty, but I'm still seeing AI fighters from my squadron returning to enemy territory to chase a single E/A way after the bomber run is over, forgetting their primary task (protecting the bombers, even on their way back to base...). Another point the major issue of friendly planes focusing obsessively on landing when back to their base even when under attack remains a problem. This is the most ridiculous AI behavior in this game, from my point of view. So, yes, some improvements are taking place gradually and I really appreciate the fact that the devs are trying to improve career mode and AI behavior in general... But there is still room for more improvements. One step at a time... Keep up the good work guys... Cent fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage !!

10 minutes ago, Cleo9 said:

This is still the best sim available

 

Edited by Cleo9
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Is AI difficulty in career only changed by the career difficulty setting? I was trying to increase AI difficulty and career difficulty was all I could find, I was expecting something more like the QMB’s 5 levels of difficulty vs the career’s 3 levels. 

Edited by TheAmazinGreat
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3 hours ago, TheAmazinGreat said:

Is AI difficulty in career only changed by the career difficulty setting? I was trying to increase AI difficulty and career difficulty was all I could find, I was expecting something more like the QMB’s 5 levels of difficulty vs the career’s 3 levels. 

 

Yes

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Just a question: Why do I have so much aircraft labeled as 'crashed' in the 'after battle report/logbook'? 80% is on the ground but in the air too, friend and foe.

Happens mostly to other AI flights, my own wingmen not so much. There are sorties after I have the impression almost every involved plane across the map is crashed (I'm playing scripted campaigns, PWCG and Vanders mission generator).

Is the reason the new G-forces calculation?

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On 1/6/2021 at 4:46 PM, Trooper117 said:

 

 

Just assume the enemy is being vectored to your home station by their control HQ, obviously they have an insanely brilliant intelligence section that never gets it wrong!

I miss the Vector To Home Base comms command so much! The beacon gauge partly solves the problem, though obviously it is not featured on all planes.

On 1/6/2021 at 6:51 PM, KGM_Roll said:

And awacs ! And balls of steel and permanent feel of air superiority, even in rheineland ! And no fear of allies air cover since there is none, and friendlies happily get slaughtered with no reaction whatsoever when landing !

 

Glad you're happy Lusekofte, hope it lasts; my own rheineland tempest careers have all been very short and very not fun. Same for kuban (attacked at landing, no friendly air cover, useless friendly aaa) so didn't even bother to try again stalingrad/moscow.

I`d recommend you to play some more missions. After some time with the AI, you find some workarounds to their logic. Eg. if you`re being followed, get to the deck on tree level. Once you get to base start low alt landing approach with minimum speed. AI will not be able to hit you, even on the ground.

 

For friendly AI management best way is to lead the flight. They do obey some commands in most circumstances, though I confirm once they get to rtb territory they ignore everything and just make goarounds to land.

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52 minutes ago, vonGraf said:

Just a question: Why do I have so much aircraft labeled as 'crashed' in the 'after battle report/logbook'? 80% is on the ground but in the air too, friend and foe.

Happens mostly to other AI flights, my own wingmen not so much. There are sorties after I have the impression almost every involved plane across the map is crashed (I'm playing scripted campaigns, PWCG and Vanders mission generator).

Is the reason the new G-forces calculation?


No idea what CPU you have but it might be that. I have PWCG on med air density, ground and AA on low, CPU Expensive on med (5gig CPU) and we don't see many AI crashing out (in flight or in the AAR). A couple of times in over a hundred missions so far the CPU warning has come up ("You may see erratic AI behaviour") but otherwise good.

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2 minutes ago, JG51-Hetzer said:


No idea what CPU you have but it might be that. I have PWCG on med air density, ground and AA on low, CPU Expensive on med (5gig CPU) and we don't see many AI crashing out (in flight or in the AAR). A couple of times in over a hundred missions so far the CPU warning has come up ("You may see erratic AI behaviour") but otherwise good.

 

 In singleplayer or co-op?

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1 hour ago, Mac_Messer said:

AI will not be able to hit you, even on the ground.

Let's say rarely. Sometimes they do hit you once you are on the ground, but usually not. And yes, that is exactly what I am doing, too. When you fly slower aircrafts, like the Bf110 E2, in my case, it is often the only chance to make it back to your base.

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Intesting thread, I've re-instralled so will give it a try.

 

Is there any mod to turn off the player voice, I assume the devs haven't removed it? I mean the spotting and engaging call of aircraft I haven't seen etc.

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2 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

You can now lower the volume or shut it off by holding left-alt numpad -

But this removes all the radio, not only the player's virtual pilot, telling him again and again, he is engaging an aircraft.

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