Rudder pedals recommendations

[crewchief 5]

Just begun the very handsome looking "Hell Hawks" campaign and at the start of my first sortie I nearly taxied into a line of P-38s. On inspection it turns out that my faithful Saitek rudder pedals have bought the farm and I have no rudder or toe brake control. I have had them for about 12 years and they have given excellent service but I wondered, as the technology must have moved on, whether anybody has any recommendations for another brand. A quick search suggest that the Saitek Pro series are not that easy or cheap to get hold of any longer, several outlets advertising them but not actually having any stock. The Thrustmaster pedals seem to get good reviews and would go seamlessly with my current TM joy stick and throttle setup. 

 

Any comments greatly appreciated

 

Regards

 

Ouston

[Hetzer-JG51 294]

The Thrustmaster ones do a very good job, though I preferred the wider reach of the pedals on the old Saitek ones.

[crewchief 5]

Hetzer

 

Thanks for the reply. My concern with the Thrustmaster pedals is that they don't look that sturdy although reviews seem not to be too worried about this. The Saitek unit did get stuck from time to time on full left or right rudder but was easily broken down, cleaned and put back together again. They also more accurately mirror the dimensions of pedals on real aircraft whereas the Thrustmaster seems a bit narrow as you point out. I will see if anybody else has anything to say on the subject before making up my mind.

 

Cheers

 

Ouston

[Hanu 328]

With Milan's pedals you cannot go wrong. Quality, fidelity and feeling is astonishing. Sturdy, no detents in center, but the cam-based solution keeps the center where it should be, and you don't have to even consider using deadzones.

https://mfg-sim.com/en/3-rudder-pedals

Edited December 28, 2020 by Hanu
More informatic reply

[Hetzer-JG51 294]

I had a set of Milan's MFGs and they were superb (I flogged them when I gave up on simming for a couple of years).

I had the Saiteks jam too. Finally a toe-brake spring-tab broke (made of plastic, the mind boggles). I tried to resurrect them by taking the spring out of the other pedal but now Windows won't recognize them.

The TMs seem pretty robust but I'm careful not to abuse them.

[cardboard_killer 1124]

This thread discusses some of your choices in what is actually a crowded market, at the mid-high end. Unfortunately for under $200USD, there isn't as much choice.

 

 

[crewchief 5]

Thanks to all who have replied. Apologies for not spotting RedKestrel's thread when I did my search. The MFG type look very impressive although as I am an occasional rather than hard-core simmer the price might be a bit steep. However as with most things in life you get what you pay for so I shall give that some thought. I think the VKB would not be an option as they lack toe brakes. I do enough ground loops as it is! 

 

Hetzer - I think my problem is similar to yours. The spring loaded adjustment for pedal length on the left pedal has snapped and gone inside. I cannot get Windows to detect them any longer so I think they are irretrievably bust.

 

Cheers

 

Ouston

[cardboard_killer 1124]

16 minutes ago, crewchief said:

The MFG type look very impressive

 

I hesitated to recommend them as they are pricey, but I have them and they are really nice.

[unlikely_spider 287]

2 hours ago, Hanu said:

With Milan's pedals you cannot go wrong. Quality, fidelity and feeling is astonishing. Sturdy, no detents in center, but the cam-based solution keeps the center where it should be, and you don't have to even consider using deadzones.

https://mfg-sim.com/en/3-rudder-pedals

Yes, I feel like I can throw my Crosswinds from a moving vehicle, retrieve them, and they would continue to work.

*I am not responsible for anyone destroying their rudder pedals by doing this

 

The wheel brakes are a bit stiff, especially coming from CH Products pedals. So unless you can anchor them somehow, that is something to consider. The Crosswinds have tabs on the back where you can screw them to something - I have two small pieces of wood screwed into them that hold them flush with the wall so that they don't move, and thus the brakes feel nice. I bet they loosened up a bit since I bought them. Screwing them to the ground is not an option for me, though that would be the ideal situation. Also I have lockable wheels on my chair because my chair would simply roll back when braking otherwise.

 

But yes, the MFG Crosswinds are wonderful and I wouldn't want to try anything of lesser quality. They also came from Europe to the US quite quickly.

[Sokol1 2076]

2 hours ago, JG51-Hetzer said:

The Thrustmaster ones do a very good job, though I preferred the wider reach of the pedals on the old Saitek ones.

 

 

You mean Trhustmaster TFRP?

 

Narrow, low quality potentiometer, poor sliding mechanism (rails) subject to stiction.

The only advantage is that MSR* prices is under $100.

*Have not checked how much are costing now in this crazy scammers times.

 

In the sub $ 200 price range the best option still the vintage, electronic obsolete (8 bits), but durable, easy serviceable, with available spare potentiometers: CH PRO Rudder, MyPilotStore have then for the "right" price.

 

Quality/price in $ 200 range the best option is VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV ($ 215).

Yes, they don't have "toe brakes", but IL-2:GB series allow use differential brakes in any plane.

 

BTW - VKB have mentioned that are working in a new 3 axis pedal (before became popular in Western they have a 3 axis pedal  - their first product), but probable a 2022 or latter release.

 

The natural choice is MFG Crosswind, if the price tag fit in your budget.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Sokol1

[=FEW=fernando11 166]

About the MFG they are really nice. It's my first good set of rudder pedals, I really like them, and I don't see me replacing them unless I loose them on a fire or something...

About the toe brake spring tension... They are a bit stiff, even on the lowest setting. Specialy coming from the CH rudder pedals (really good as well, on it's price range), but the user @hegykc has a thread named Replika gear, where he shows some custom mods for a softer toe brake tension, and some combat style foot rest, where you rest the heels on the floor, and use the rudder by the ball of the feet instead of resting the whole foot on the pedal.

 

Without having use this midifications, I guess this would "fix" any issue some might have with the stock MFG crosswind, wich again, I really like as they are sold.

[dburne 2460]

Been very happily using my MFG Crosswinds since Dec 2015. 

[crewchief 5]

Hmm! Thanks for all the comments. It seems like the MFG pedals are the best bet. Just wondering if I can smuggle them past the wife but we will get to that when we come to it!  Might have to cut down the purchase of aviation books for a  month or two. Even Saitek are not selling their own pedals and none of the normal sources seem to be selling them so I suspect they are not producing them any more. If the MFG pedals last 12 years, and they look solid, they are probably worth the purchase price. 

 

Pip pip

 

Ouston

 

 

 

 

 

[Sokol1 2076]

Another option of "F-16'ish" 3D Printed "combat" pads for MFG Crosswind, 50 EUROS.

 

Resistance "test".

Edited December 29, 2020 by Sokol1

[Norz 141]

VKB-SIM T-RUDDER PEDALS MK.IV 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/vkb-sim-t-rudder-pedals-mk-iv-2/

 

small, solid, not so expensive. 

[cardboard_killer 1124]

17 hours ago, crewchief said:

I think the VKB would not be an option as they lack toe brakes. I do enough ground loops as it is! 

 

48 minutes ago, Norz said:

VKB-SIM T-RUDDER PEDALS MK.IV 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/vkb-sim-t-rudder-pedals-mk-iv-2/

 

small, solid, not so expensive. 

 

All questions answered in the wrong order

[Norz 141]

3 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

All questions answered in the wrong order

 

Only because I had my own experience with Saitek. It was (is) just so bad that no-one should use it at all... 

 

TM is better but for this price there is only one good alternative that I mentioned before. I have no idea why toe brake control is so important for you.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Norz

[THERION 1203]

3 minutes ago, Norz said:

Only because I had my own experience with Saitek. It was (is) just so bad that none should use it at all... 

 

This is simply not true - maybe you had some bad experience with your set. I do have them since more than 10 years now

and never ever had any issue with it. Also the price for a set of these isn't bad at all.

[Norz 141]

1 minute ago, THERION said:

This is simply not true - maybe you had some bad experience with your set. I do have them since more than 10 years now

and never ever had any issue with it. Also the price for a set of these isn't bad at all.

 

What kind of rudder pedals do you have now?

[THERION 1203]

3 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

What kind of rudder pedals do you have now?

 

Read my comment again and you may guess... 

[THERION 1203]

15 minutes ago, Norz said:

Probieren Sie nun etwas anderes als Saitek. Dann sehen Sie sofort, warum ich es geschrieben habe.

 

Well, I'm very well aware that my Saitek combo isn't the best in the world, but at the time back then I didn't have much of a choice.

 

Before this, I used my trusty and very sturdy Thrustmaster Elite rudder pedals bought in 1992, but I got into trouble because they

didn't have an USB port and newer Flight Simulations didn't recognize them anymore.

 

But sure, sooner or later I will have to change them and as I already said, I hope to get a set of BAUR rudder pedals, now Virpil

VPC ACE Interceptor Pedals.

[Norz 141]

3 minutes ago, THERION said:

 

Well, I'm very well aware that my Saitek combo isn't the best in the world, but at the time back then I didn't have much of a choice.

 

Before this, I used my trusty and very sturdy Thrustmaster Elite rudder pedals bought in 1992, but I got into trouble because they

didn't have an USB port and newer Flight Simulations didn't recognize them anymore.

 

But sure, sooner or later I will have to change them and as I already said, I hope to get a set of BAUR rudder pedals, now Virpil

VPC ACE Interceptor Pedals.

 

I think that the Saitek Pedals are very realistic, but to be efficient in the online game like IL2 i have to use something else. I used my Saitek almost 12 months and was sure that all pedals are the same, i mean not so useful. Maybe the reason is that the axis Z on my Microsoft Sidewinder FF2 is very precise. 

[6./ZG26_Saker 7]

Try to invest in the MFG's they will probably last you the rest of your life. That's also how you can explain the cost. They are amazing and I received mine really quick during the fall in the US. Edit: also immediately improved my accuracy in aerial gunnery from the thrustmaster t rudder..

Edited December 29, 2020 by 6./ZG26_Saker

[cardboard_killer 1124]

2 hours ago, Norz said:

I have no idea why toe brake control is so important for you.

 

They aren't. They are important to the man who asked the question. But feel free to tell him what he wants despite what he wants.

[crewchief 5]

Again thanks to all for the comments. Opinion generally seems to be in favour of MFG. I know not all World War Two era aircraft had differential brakes but the Tempest V and P-47, which I fly quite a lot certainly did, so I would still argue the VKB are not an option for me whatever other advantages they may have. 

 

The Saitek pedals gave very good service (12 years plus) although I was surprised at the rather shoddy construction of the part that eventually gave out and amazed it lasted as long as it did. As I said earlier I would buy another pair if they were easily available as they are good value for the money. I have decided to go for MFG but rather oddly they don't seem to ship to the UK at present. Whether this is a result of Brexit and its complications I don't know but I await a reply from them.

 

Thanks again

 

Ouston

[cardboard_killer 1124]

I cannot imagine that my MFGs will fail in my lifetime. Howerver, I don't expect to be playing games for more than the next twenty years so, YMMV.

 

BTW, I was extremely fortunate to score my MFG pedals used at a deep discount. I don't know about the UK, but I always keep an eye on the local used stuff boards for flight sim equipment. Stuff does pop up every once and awhile and sometimes the prices are even reasonable. I saw a honeycomb yoke go for $150USD within the last six months, basically new in the box. My MFGs came with a CH yoke and a CH 6-throttle quadrant for less than new MFGs cost, because the man selling them was older and just didn't use them anymore. Keep your eyes open!

[crewchief 5]

For anybody like myself thinking of buy MFG pedals I have just found out that the firm have disabled delivery to the UK until early January, presumably to get an idea of post-Brexit conditions. Another fine mess you have got me into, Boris. Might pick up a set of the Thrustmaster pedals so I can at least carry on flying in the meantime.

 

Ouston

[Norz 141]

3 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

They aren't. They are important to the man who asked the question. But feel free to tell him what he wants despite what he wants.

 

Sometimes you think that you need it but in reality you don't. 

 

Last personal examples:

 

VPC Constellation ALPHA-R

VKB Gunfighter Mk.III

VKB Gladiator NXT

Monitor 4k 

Monitor 2k

 

I will be glad if someone explained that they were not what I wanted in reality. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Norz

[dburne 2460]

Toe Brakes on Pedals are simply a choice, important to some not important to others.

I myself much prefer having them for those planes I use them for.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk 1255]

Slaw devices Dora V2 with motorcycle dumper installed I can recommend especially for those old FC crates 

[Norz 141]

2 hours ago, crewchief said:

For anybody like myself thinking of buy MFG pedals I have just found out that the firm have disabled delivery to the UK until early January, presumably to get an idea of post-Brexit conditions. Another fine mess you have got me into, Boris. Might pick up a set of the Thrustmaster pedals so I can at least carry on flying in the meantime.

 

Ouston

 

you can check this one (used):

 

Slaw Devices Viper RX-2

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/14227-педали-3-оси-viper-rx-2/?tab=comments#comment-816961

Edited December 29, 2020 by Norz

[Sokol1 2076]

10 hours ago, crewchief said:

 I have decided to go for MFG but rather oddly they don't seem to ship to the UK at present. Whether this is a result of Brexit and its complications I don't know but I await a reply from them.

 

In this case check with VirPil, they send outside of EU so may have no issues, their ACE Interceptor is just $30 more than MFG, and in center mechanism (CAM) and contactless sensor both pedals are similar.

 

A plus of Interceptor is that allow use heels on floor, what help in small movements. Anyway the ACE model for the same price is feet over pads like MFG or Saitek PRO, or for a bit more both pedal pad options.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Sokol1

[cardboard_killer 1124]

Bad news, Back-Ordered; but maybe the wait time would be less than the MFGs?

Edited December 30, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[Voyager 195]

MFG Crosswinds are excellent pedals, though expensive. 

 

I also used CH Pro Pedals for a long time, and they were quite capable, but I can't seem to find them actually for sale at the moment. 

 

If your budget can't handle either, I believe it should be possible to DIY a set of rudder pedals using microcontrolers, but that requires time and labor. 

[crewchief 5]

Having searched for some time there are very few sets of any make of pedals out there, unless you pay very silly prices. The Thrustmaster pedals would do but I cannot find any in Britain. There were a couple of suppliers in Germany but with the present situation I have no notion of delivery times to the UK. If any British based flyer has a lead on a new set I would be very pleased to hear from him/her. I am always a bit chary about buying second hand although some commentators have obviously got bargains that way.  Fortunately budget is not too much of an issue and I would not object to paying the price for the Crosswinds but I don't want to pay over the odds for lesser quality. Thanks also for the heads-up on VIRPIL which I will look into although they seem to be a small company like MFG and only do limited batches so prompt delivery could be a problem there. They are outside the EU, as will Great Britain be from tomorrow but don't get me started on that!

 

Ouston

[von_Tom 429]

MFGs are worth the cost and the wait to get them - most other pedals are a false economy. You only need to buy these things once as they are bomb-proof. The nice thing is that you are buying them direct from the manufacturer. 
 

I think I went with the cam that made resistance greater with more deflection. In-game the rudder curve is set at 50%. 
 

I wouldn’t say you get a “wow” moment with them. It is more the case that in every aspect they are incrementally better than what you had before. 
 

An alternative may well be the Virpil pedals. Don’t worry that they are a small outfit because most niche manufacturers are. Their quality is excellent. 
 

if you do go down the MFG route I suggest bolting them to some wood to stop them sliding around.  If you want details pm me your email address and I’ll send some pics of what I did. 
 

von Tom

[1PL-Husar-1Esk 1255]

20 hours ago, Norz said:

 

you can check this one (used):

 

Slaw Devices Viper RX-2

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/14227-педали-3-оси-viper-rx-2/?tab=comments#comment-816961

Do not buy Vipers for ww2 or ww1 , they are mode for jets when you use them sporadically during play.

[BladeMeister 658]

MFG Crosswinds are the way to go. There is no middle ground in what I have found in searching user experiences. 'You get what you pay for' has always stated the obvious truth. Until you have tried cheap pedals and then tried quality pedals you will never understand the difference. After 30 minutes of use of my Crosswinds I will never go back to twist or cheap rudders. I am going on 5 years with my Crosswinds and they have preformed flawlessly. Yes they cost more, but after 5 years enjoyment, they and my TIR5 are the best flight simming investment I have made. My highest recommendation of MFG Crosswinds goes to anyone considering purchasing HIGHLY RESPONSIVE, HIGH QUALITY RUDDER PEDALS. 

Nuff said!

 

S!Blade<><

[LukeFF 6288]

MFG all the way here as well, for the same reasons others have cited here.

[VBF-12_Stick-95 1031]

MFG.