Damage model

[Startrek66 17]

Hi guys, last night I ran a free hunting mission on the Stalingrad map.  The mission was generated with Pwgc (excellent utility).  I flew with the 109 F4.  I dueled against a P-40 and took it down.  But guys since when does a P-40 take hits like a flying fortress?  Incredible, the twenty millimeters, all on target and he undeterred circling at low altitude.  My question is, are Russian fighters super armored like tanks?

[=DMD=Honza 82]

6 hours ago, Startrek66 said:

Hi guys, last night I ran a free hunting mission on the Stalingrad map.  The mission was generated with Pwgc (excellent utility).  I flew with the 109 F4.  I dueled against a P-40 and took it down.  But guys since when does a P-40 take hits like a flying fortress?  Incredible, the twenty millimeters, all on target and he undeterred circling at low altitude.  My question is, are Russian fighters super armored like tanks?

German 20mms and 13mms are hands down not best but most OP BS ive ever seen in plane simulation, if you cant kill P40 with them, problem is either with your internet if its MP or between chair and joystick. One single hit of 13mm HE diminishes any chances of enemy to fight back, thats how broken DM model is but not from german side. For them its easy mode. 

[Startrek66 17]

It happened in sp.  I assure you I filled that P40 with holes like Swiss cheese.  But he still flew excellently.

[Sheriff88 228]

Same observation here. P-40 and Hurricane are bullet sponges. In case of the Hurricane it may be because of rounds passing through fabric skin but with the P-40 ?

[Thad 1619]

Salutations,

 

I have observed that the plane I am flying is always too fragile and under gunned while invariably, the opposing plane is over gunned while being nearly impervious to my fire,

 

Oddly, this perception is the same no matter what plane I am flying for either side. Very odd indeed. 😁

[JG300_Winterz 97]

That is how it goes against the AI. Different story against an human pilot.

[Startrek66 17]

26 minutes ago, Sheriff88 said:

Same observation here. P-40 and Hurricane are bullet sponges. In case of the Hurricane it may be because of rounds passing through fabric skin but with the P-40 ?

I don't even explain it. But keep in mind that the hurricane is made of wood so in addition to piercing the glazes, the shots should open the fuselage. It is different if there was a Macchi c200 in its place, which despite being made of wood was very robust, especially its wing.

[Aurora_Stealth 180]

9 hours ago, Startrek66 said:

Hi guys, last night I ran a free hunting mission on the Stalingrad map.  The mission was generated with Pwgc (excellent utility).  I flew with the 109 F4.  I dueled against a P-40 and took it down.  But guys since when does a P-40 take hits like a flying fortress?  Incredible, the twenty millimeters, all on target and he undeterred circling at low altitude.  My question is, are Russian fighters super armored like tanks?

 

What gun convergence distance are you using?

[Startrek66 17]

27 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

I have observed that the plane I am flying is always too fragile and under gunned while invariably, the opposing plane is over gunned while being nearly impervious to my fire,

 

Oddly, this perception is the same no matter what plane I am flying for either side. Very odd indeed. 😁

Kind of strange, but does this happen to you with both the axis and allies?

7 minutes ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

 

What gun convergence distance are you using?

350 m. I fly 109 F4. Machine guns and cannons are in the fuselage, so convergence is of little importance. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Startrek66

[DD_Arthur 2752]

5 minutes ago, Startrek66 said:

Kind of strange, but does this happen to you with both the axis and allies?

It is indeed kind of strange but yeah, all the planes I fire on seem to fly on yet all the planes that fire on me seem to shoot me down. This happens ALL the time. I think you’re onto something here and I really hope you can get the devs to look into this. Thanks for bringing this up👍

[Yogiflight 1156]

Interesting. My observations are completely different. I am flying German side, either PWCG or game's career mode and I rarely get killed, usually I kill myself by ramming enemy aircrafts or getting hit by debris and am too low to bail out.

I 16s usually go down very easily after very few hits, Yaks and La 5s similarily, a bit tougher are LaGG and Mig, which sometimes can take quite a bunch of hits. The P 40 is no tank either, and even more, no Russian aircraft, but an American. The one time I met Hurricanes, they were also no big problem.

The only Russian aircrafts, in my experience, that are sometimes very hard to bring down, are the IL 2 and the Pe 2.

And now the big surprise, my name is not Hartmann

[DD_Arthur 2752]

[Startrek66 17]

38 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

It is indeed kind of strange but yeah, all the planes I fire on seem to fly on yet all the planes that fire on me seem to shoot me down. This happens ALL the time. I think you’re onto something here and I really hope you can get the devs to look into this. Thanks for bringing this up👍

With update 4.005 I read that a powerful repair was made on the aircraft damage model. The developers will certainly take these reports into consideration, because game play is lost.

30 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Interessante. Le mie osservazioni sono completamente diverse. Sto volando sul lato tedesco, in PWCG o in modalità carriera del gioco e raramente vengo ucciso, di solito mi uccido speronando aerei nemici o venendo colpito da detriti e sono troppo basso per salvarmi.

I 16 di solito scendono molto facilmente dopo pochissimi colpi, Yaks e La 5 in modo simile, un po 'più duri sono LaGG e Mig, che a volte possono sopportare un bel po' di colpi. Il P 40 non è nemmeno un carro armato, e ancor di più, nessun aereo russo, ma un americano. L'unica volta che ho incontrato gli uragani, anche loro non erano un grosso problema.

Gli unici aerei russi, secondo la mia esperienza, che a volte sono molto difficili da abbattere, sono l'IL 2 e il Pe 2.

E ora la grande sorpresa, il mio nome non è Hartmann

Il2 is a tank. 

[DD_Arthur 2752]

5 minutes ago, Startrek66 said:

 The developers will certainly take these reports into consideration, because game play is lost.

 

You're quite right. They really will - after all there are only two hundred and thirty-seven thousand four hundred and forty four members of this forum and I know the devs like to hear the views of all of us.  

Lets hope you can make a difference 

[Aurora_Stealth 180]

48 minutes ago, Startrek66 said:

Kind of strange, but does this happen to you with both the axis and allies?

350 m

 

Just brainstorming here.

 

May be worth just checking (briefly activating) the icons to see how far it is you're typically firing from as it can be deceiving to judge by eye... the 20mm should do quite significant damage if you are close - are you firing from directly behind and through the back of the fuselage? this can be problematic as there are always several layers to shoot through to hit anything critical.

 

I use a very similar convergence distance (340m) but I'm often firing with quite a bit of deflection (30 deg) or deliberately from slightly below/above to fire into the fuel tank or cooling system - but rarely from directly behind. If I'm following a fighter in a manoeuvre I won't fire even if I know I can hit the rear half of the aircraft - as it usually won't be decisive and I'm throwing my aim off once I start firing a burst. If I can't be sure of hitting the engine or cockpit, or a good wide area of the wing then better to wait a little longer - and only fire in a short one or two second burst to get the best bang for the buck while staying on target.

[VBF-12_KW 437]

Are your key bindings set to fire all the guns?  If you’re only shooting the 8mm’s the results will be underwhelming.

[Startrek66 17]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

 

Just brainstorming here.

 

May be worth just checking (briefly activating) the icons to see how far it is you're typically firing from as it can be deceiving to judge by eye... the 20mm should do quite significant damage if you are close - are you firing from directly behind and through the back of the fuselage? this can be problematic as there are always several layers to shoot through to hit anything critical.

 

I use a very similar convergence distance (340m) but I'm often firing with quite a bit of deflection (30 deg) or deliberately from slightly below/above to fire into the fuel tank or cooling system - but rarely from directly behind. If I'm following a fighter in a manoeuvre I won't fire even if I know I can hit the rear half of the aircraft - as it usually won't be decisive and I'm throwing my aim off once I start firing a burst. If I can't be sure of hitting the engine or cockpit, or a good wide area of the wing then better to wait a little longer - and only fire in a short one or two second burst to get the best bang for the buck while staying on target.

Interestingly, we have different targeting approaches and maybe mine might be less effective.  When I manage to frame the enemy's tail in the viewfinder I shoot with the 20 mm, hoping to blow the tail planes or the rudder off.  Otherwise if I pursue in prolonged turns I shoot with the 12.7mm deflected slightly forward of the enemy.  I have never performed the BZ attack technique.  But 20mm that comes straight in the queue on a P40, something must break.

11 minutes ago, -332FG-KW_1979 said:

Are your key bindings set to fire all the guns?  If you’re only shooting the 8mm’s the results will be underwhelming.

Sometimes 20 mm + 12,7 mm

[Yogiflight 1156]

1 hour ago, Startrek66 said:

Sometimes 20 mm + 12,7 mm

The F4 has only 7.92mm machineguns, not the 13mm MG 131, which were introduced to the 109s with the G6.

Those small caliber machineguns do not a lot of damage, except when you are hitting vital parts from short distance.

 

3 hours ago, Startrek66 said:

Il2 is a tank. 

Yes, but even tanks fly with normal wings and normal tail fins.