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Simple tool to check your six


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Works like a charm. Many thanks! 

 

One suggestion maybe for future versions is to have an ability to map a button to disable the automatic rotation function as long as the button is held. I found the automatic rotation feature to work very well, but sometimes when observing planes right or left I would get into the "flip" zone unwillingly which made observations in this area harder. Having the ability to toggle the feature on the fly might cover this use case.

 

Otherwise superb tool and great help for the VR community. Well done! 

 

 

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2 hours ago, GOA_GrafKaraya*VR* said:

Hi all!, im sorry for not reading the entire post, this program works only with steam vr? , i use open composite with a Rift S, and the program simply dont open.

 

Thanks!!.

Yes, steamVR only. Open composite doesn't have the required commands.

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A question, the autorotate works nicely, except that going back to straight ahead reverts  to a position that is way above the cockpit in the DCS Hornet.  I then have to press the VR re-center key.

Is that normal?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, imacken said:

A question, the autorotate works nicely, except that going back to straight ahead reverts  to a position that is way above the cockpit in the DCS Hornet.  I then have to press the VR re-center key.

Is that normal?

 

Still working on other sims... That's one of the problems.

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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10 hours ago, ACG_Mephisto said:

Works like a charm. Many thanks! 

 

One suggestion maybe for future versions is to have an ability to map a button to disable the automatic rotation function as long as the button is held. I found the automatic rotation feature to work very well, but sometimes when observing planes right or left I would get into the "flip" zone unwillingly which made observations in this area harder. Having the ability to toggle the feature on the fly might cover this use case.

 

Otherwise superb tool and great help for the VR community. Well done! 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm running into this more and more. It's not as big of an issue in the middle of a fight when frantically looking around, but it is much more important when tracking a plane going into a fight or observing the effects of your fire on a plane while zooming up again.

I suppose temporarily disabling autorotate is one option, but I think the real option is to not have a step at all. The real trick would be to have a smooth, progressive boost to rotation. Near the center, it should be close to 1:1 head rotation to in-game rotation. Near the extreme ends, it can be increased to provide the neck-saving boost to help check 6. In the middle, it should smoothly add more boost rather than have a sudden step. Think of the "expo" on the joystick response curves: fine control near the center, larger motions near the outside. Perfect alignment between the player's motion and the in-game motion is not required to avoid motion sickness: it just needs to be close enough that the player doesn't notice. Here's some videos on "redirected motion" to give the illusion of a larger space by warping what the player sees. Video 1 video 2

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10 hours ago, J2_NobiWan said:

 

Still working on other sims... That's one of the problems.

Thanks. Do you mean that you are still trying to make it work on other sims and that what I’m seeing is normal at the moment?

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When running this program with just SteamVR open it works fine, but as soon as any game is open the HMD angle is no longer being read and so the program does nothing. This is true if I run a completely native Steam game (Star Wars Squadrons) or if I run IL-2 from the launcher outside of Steam (but with SteamVR already running). I have the advanced OVR tools installed in Steam and the menu for that is working fine.

Any ideas? I've not seen anybody else reporting anything like this.

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Hi Nobiwan,

 

Much as my old neck would love me to use your utility I'm having some problems.

 

I launch the utility successfully from SteamVR, configure the buttons and it works perfectly while in the SteamVR construct, turning my view 30 degrees left or right and returning my head to centre on release (regardless of whether I've first centered my position in the SteamVR construct). I then launch DCS World, enter a mission in any jet, centre my position (I have your reset switch assigned to my DCS VR reset position button as recommended), but when I push left or right it doesn't turn my view at all, it just immediately places me 5 feet above the cockpit, facing forward slight offset right, with either button. From there, only the reset button works, placing me back in default position in the cockpit. I tried the autoroate function and that has the same result..as soon as I turn to the activate angle I find myself again suspended above the cockpit facing forward.

 

Any ideas ?

 

Thanks, Shaun

 

..should mention I'm using an HP Reverb G2 and WMR.

Edited by shaun57
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16 minutes ago, Brzi_Joe said:

Disable or uninstal OVR, it is not needed.

That's handy to know, thanks. It wasn't working before I installed OVR either though, so that isn't the cause of the problem itself.

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5 hours ago, BatSpoggy said:

When running this program with just SteamVR open it works fine, but as soon as any game is open the HMD angle is no longer being read and so the program does nothing. This is true if I run a completely native Steam game (Star Wars Squadrons) or if I run IL-2 from the launcher outside of Steam (but with SteamVR already running). I have the advanced OVR tools installed in Steam and the menu for that is working fine.

Any ideas? I've not seen anybody else reporting anything like this.

Hmm, did you try starting vrnecksafer after launching il2?

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45 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

Hmm, did you try starting vrnecksafer after launching il2?

 

Yes, I tried by starting it before SteamVR, after that but before IL-2 and finally after IL-2 as well.

When starting it after SteamVR I could see the HMD angle display updating while in the SteamVR home and automatic angle snap was working correctly. In this case as soon as I started IL-2 the HMD angle display was fixed at the last reported angle, if I hit reset it would reset to zero and then remain there.

 

After writing that I thought to try starting Necksafer first and then SteamVR, again that worked fine in the SteamVR home. It seems like it works there but nowhere else. I'm using a Rift CV1 and I wouldn't expect that this would work when using the native Oculus or OpenComposite, so I've only tried games that explicitly use SteamVR.

 

Is there some debug output that has to be set in SteamVR to enable whatever outputs the HMD angle for you to read? It seems like as soon as I start a game up that output stops being fed by SteamVR, and I can't imagine your program is just not bothering to read it.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, BatSpoggy said:

 

Yes, I tried by starting it before SteamVR, after that but before IL-2 and finally after IL-2 as well.

When starting it after SteamVR I could see the HMD angle display updating while in the SteamVR home and automatic angle snap was working correctly. In this case as soon as I started IL-2 the HMD angle display was fixed at the last reported angle, if I hit reset it would reset to zero and then remain there.

 

After writing that I thought to try starting Necksafer first and then SteamVR, again that worked fine in the SteamVR home. It seems like it works there but nowhere else. I'm using a Rift CV1 and I wouldn't expect that this would work when using the native Oculus or OpenComposite, so I've only tried games that explicitly use SteamVR.

 

Is there some debug output that has to be set in SteamVR to enable whatever outputs the HMD angle for you to read? It seems like as soon as I start a game up that output stops being fed by SteamVR, and I can't imagine your program is just not bothering to read it.

Strange... are you using an up to date steamvr version?

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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7 hours ago, shaun57 said:

I then launch DCS World, enter a mission in any jet, centre my position (I have your reset switch assigned to my DCS VR reset position button as recommended), but when I push left or right it doesn't turn my view at all, it just immediately places me 5 feet above the cockpit, facing forward slight offset right, with either button. From there, only the reset button works, placing me back in default position in the cockpit. I tried the autoroate function and that has the same result..as soon as I turn to the activate angle I find myself again suspended above the cockpit facing forward.

 

Hi shaun, I see that my comments from before to imacken were misleading. Sorry for that! Vrnecksafer is currently only working with IL2. (And even there some folks report problems) I am however working  on getting vrnecksafer to work with other sims. Since holidays are over, progress will be slow though...

1 hour ago, BatSpoggy said:

 

SteamVR updates itself quite regularly, so yes.

 

The oculus SW maybe?

I'm running a Rift S with Oculus app version 25.0.0.18.658 (25.0.0.18.658) and SteamVR 1.15.16.

 

I would be interested if the small change I did helps:

https://gitlab.com/-/ide/project/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/tree/master/-/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferTest.zip

 

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43 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

 

Hi shaun, I see that my comments from before to imacken were misleading. Sorry for that! Vrnecksafer is currently only working with IL2. (And even there some folks report problems) I am however working  on getting vrnecksafer to work with other sims. Since holidays are over, progress will be slow though...

 

The oculus SW maybe?

I'm running a Rift S with Oculus app version 25.0.0.18.658 (25.0.0.18.658) and SteamVR 1.15.16.

 

I would be interested if the small change I did helps:

https://gitlab.com/-/ide/project/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/tree/master/-/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferTest.zip

 

Thanks for clarifying. I'll check back but won't hold my breath. Good luck and stay safe.

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5 hours ago, J2_NobiWan said:

 

Hi shaun, I see that my comments from before to imacken were misleading. Sorry for that! Vrnecksafer is currently only working with IL2. (And even there some folks report problems) I am however working  on getting vrnecksafer to work with other sims. Since holidays are over, progress will be slow though...

 

The oculus SW maybe?

I'm running a Rift S with Oculus app version 25.0.0.18.658 (25.0.0.18.658) and SteamVR 1.15.16.

 

I would be interested if the small change I did helps:

https://gitlab.com/-/ide/project/NobiWan/vrnecksafer/tree/master/-/VRNeckSafer/Release/VRNeckSaferTest.zip

 

 

It won't let me download that one, as I don't have an account there. I went to the gitlab link in the first post and found the DCS branch you have on there and tried that. I'm getting the same results with that as I am with the regular version.

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That latest test version is now working perfectly for me in DCS.

 

Make sure that you map the "reset" button to something (I mapped it to the button I use for "recenter VR headset") and press it first. If I don't do that I end up sitting 2 metres above the cockpit, but once reset is pressed, both the buttoned and autorotate functions are working perfectly and return correctly to original position.

 

Many, many thanks to Nobiwan, we stiff-necked old codgers salute you !

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Posted (edited)

I just updated the first post:

 

v1.6:

 - Compatibility to other major combat sim.

 - Added a "temporary freeze" button for autorotation

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan.

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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On 1/8/2021 at 7:00 PM, J2_NobiWan said:

 

With a bit of tinkering it started working, although not for any particular reason.

Then it stopped working again but is now having a different problem.

I can now see the HMD angle updating all the time no matter what is running, so that's good. But either with autorotate or the button presses the view angle isn't changed. When I press the button I can see the HMD angle value change by the amount I set up in the config, but the view does not move. In the SteamVR home I can occasionally see a flicker when pressing the button, and when doing the same in IL-2 I can see that every time I press it the view very quickly flickers to the new position and then immediately goes back to the old (actual HMD) position.

This is with both the DCS test version and the later 1.6 version.

I also switched over to the SteamVR beta version as I saw a lot of people were using it. No change either. Maybe this just doesn't work on Oculus, even if you're running SteamVR.

Edited by BatSpoggy
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16 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

I just updated the first post:

 

v1.6:

 - Compatibility to other major combat sim.

 - Added a "temporary freeze" button for autorotation

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan.

 

Thanks man, I'll try it in DCS.

 

Incidently, your utiltiy also provides an unexpected feature..

 

I've got autorotate enabled to check my six (brilliant in the DCS viper) but I've also mapped the buttons, because a short 35 degree snap perfectly solves the problem of me being unable to crank my neck over to get the sweet spot of the headset over the controls next to me on the side panels of the Viper or Warthog. Now I can read and set them easily.

 

Many thanks again !

 

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45 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

I just updated the first post:

 

v1.6:

 - Compatibility to other major combat sim.

 - Added a "temporary freeze" button for autorotation

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan.

 

So after some more testing I've determined that it is incompatible with something in my setup. I was wondering if it was the Rift, but it turns out that it's perfectly compatible with the Rift. What it won't work with is the D drive.

When it started working I was running the DCS test version off a folder unzipped to my desktop. I then moved it to the D drive as I'd intended to have it in my games folder, and it stopped working.

When I ran that version on the desktop again it worked fine. I then tried the new version on a folder on the C drive and it is working perfectly.

I don't know if that's something you can fix or if it's just something to warn people about, but I've had IL-2 open and switched between running a copy from C (works fine) and then D (won't work) without restarting IL-2 or changing anything else.

If it helps narrow it down, my Steam folder is on the D drive, so SteamVR is there too. The main Oculus software folder is on the C drive.

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4 minutes ago, BatSpoggy said:

 

So after some more testing I've determined that it is incompatible with something in my setup. I was wondering if it was the Rift, but it turns out that it's perfectly compatible with the Rift. What it won't work with is the D drive.

When it started working I was running the DCS test version off a folder unzipped to my desktop. I then moved it to the D drive as I'd intended to have it in my games folder, and it stopped working.

When I ran that version on the desktop again it worked fine. I then tried the new version on a folder on the C drive and it is working perfectly.

I don't know if that's something you can fix or if it's just something to warn people about, but I've had IL-2 open and switched between running a copy from C (works fine) and then D (won't work) without restarting IL-2 or changing anything else.

If it helps narrow it down, my Steam folder is on the D drive, so SteamVR is there too. The main Oculus software folder is on the C drive.

 

Great that you got it to work! Persistance pays off... :)

Can't see any real reason though why there should be any difference between different volumes. Permissions maybe? AV trouble?  Anyway, good that you found it! 👍

On 1/7/2021 at 11:34 PM, gascan said:

 The real trick would be to have a smooth, progressive boost to rotation. Near the center, it should be close to 1:1 head rotation to in-game rotation. Near the extreme ends, it can be increased to provide the neck-saving boost to help check 6. In the middle, it should smoothly add more boost rather than have a sudden step. Think of the "expo" on the joystick response curves: fine control near the center, larger motions near the outside. Perfect alignment between the player's motion and the in-game motion is not required to avoid motion sickness: it just needs to be close enough that the player doesn't notice. Here's some videos on "redirected motion" to give the illusion of a larger space by warping what the player sees. Video 1 video 2

 

While I agree, that some amount of discrepancy between real and visual rotation would probably be tolerable, I think that implementing this would be not so easy. As far as I know, HMDs have (in addition to the cameras) gyros and accellerometers and use these via strap down algorithms to calculate rotational (and translational) positions. These algorithms, together with the kalman filters for final sensor fusion would need to be adapted for something like this. Doable for sure, as demonstrated in the videos, but not an easy task...

However, the code is open source! :)

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What would be really amazing would be to allow a modifier in the left/right button config.  I am struggling to find 2 spare buttons on my HOTAS and I do use a modifier button for other purposes.

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4 hours ago, J2_NobiWan said:

While I agree, that some amount of discrepancy between real and visual rotation would probably be tolerable, I think that implementing this would be not so easy. As far as I know, HMDs have (in addition to the cameras) gyros and accellerometers and use these via strap down algorithms to calculate rotational (and translational) positions. These algorithms, together with the kalman filters for final sensor fusion would need to be adapted for something like this. Doable for sure, as demonstrated in the videos, but not an easy task...

However, the code is open source! :)

 

Alack! Alas! Life has limited time, and I chose long ago to spend it on other skills. It has been a decade and a half since I last tried my hand at writing code. I must unfortunately limit myself to enjoying the benefits of your work rather than contributing to it. I understand the difficulty of my request, but can't help bring it to fruition. Instead, I'll keep flying and making videos to share the love of history and flight. I'll see you on my six :salute:

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OMG,  this is getting better all the time!! DCS is working nicely too, using, in my case, latest SteamVR beta.

Thanks a lot!!

 

Suggestion: As we can use different sims, a profile selector could be great. Now, I must use a different VRNeckSafer program folder for DCS and for IL2, for two different key configurations. The reason is, I use a virtual device for programming keys on my Warthog HOTAS with DCS (its called CTS), and this virtual device is created only at the moment you program the script,  specific for each aircraft. So if the profile saves that virtual device keys, I will be able to use only one VRNeckSafer folder and do not mess with the more simple keys I use for IL2.  I hope I explained myself correctly.  Thanks.

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@J2_NobiWan I spent some more time debugging the master branch against my "seated" valve index.   just focused on the left/right buttons vs the auto rotation to simplify the debugging...

 

What I found is that the L/R offset is working great.. but for me, the vertical (Z?) is still thrown off "down".

 

These were my steps:

  1. run steam vr
  2. run dcs
  3. debug VRNecksaver
  4. toggle back to dcs
  5. click vr reset button (both for DCS and for VRNextSaver)
  6. hold button to left rotate
  7. release button to undo rotate
  8. hold button to right rotate
  9. release button to undo rotate.

Here are 4 screenshots (from dcs printscreen right eye) that show what the view is in step 5, 6, 7, and 8.  I set the rotate to just 15 degrees to its easy to see the transitions are correct on the yaw... after step 5.. i basically have to "look up" almost 30 degrees so that i can still see the menu... gives some perspective how "it lowered" the view after first yaw rotate click.. but then maintains that vertical offset while properly applying the yaw offset each button press.

 

5_Button_Reset.png.604dec9c8bbc6f421b246f8171de0af1.png

6_Button_Left_Hold.png.b3eedbc109eaee5feef236e268f2a6de.png

7_Button_Release.png.dc6f01b139c9f3346460d572690e74f6.png

8_Button_Right_Hold.png.cccfa99e6081155e02456ce166b2bf3f.png

 

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4 hours ago, vrFlyer3 said:

@J2_NobiWan I spent some more time debugging the master branch against my "seated" valve index.   just focused on the left/right buttons vs the auto rotation to simplify the debugging...

 

What I found is that the L/R offset is working great.. but for me, the vertical (Z?) is still thrown off "down".

 

These were my steps:

  1. run steam vr
  2. run dcs
  3. debug VRNecksaver
  4. toggle back to dcs
  5. click vr reset button (both for DCS and for VRNextSaver)
  6. hold button to left rotate
  7. release button to undo rotate
  8. hold button to right rotate
  9. release button to undo rotate.

Here are 4 screenshots (from dcs printscreen right eye) that show what the view is in step 5, 6, 7, and 8.  I set the rotate to just 15 degrees to its easy to see the transitions are correct on the yaw... after step 5.. i basically have to "look up" almost 30 degrees so that i can still see the menu... gives some perspective how "it lowered" the view after first yaw rotate click.. but then maintains that vertical offset while properly applying the yaw offset each button press.

Hello, my experience with DCS is you have to do reset and VR view recenter in the same time, from DCS. I never achieved to have no vertical offset when pressing the button recenter in VRNS and the  recenter the view in DCS (or vice versa). It works only for me if both actions are done from DCS in same time.

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17 hours ago, imacken said:

What would be really amazing would be to allow a modifier in the left/right button config.  I am struggling to find 2 spare buttons on my HOTAS and I do use a modifier button for other purposes.

 

This is planned for v2.0. :)Together with buttons on seperate joysticks. And more options for configuration... But it will take a while. Would like to get this offset/recenter nuisance nailed first.

10 hours ago, E69_Luke said:

OMG,  this is getting better all the time!! DCS is working nicely too, using, in my case, latest SteamVR beta.

Thanks a lot!!

 

Suggestion: As we can use different sims, a profile selector could be great. Now, I must use a different VRNeckSafer program folder for DCS and for IL2, for two different key configurations. The reason is, I use a virtual device for programming keys on my Warthog HOTAS with DCS (its called CTS), and this virtual device is created only at the moment you program the script,  specific for each aircraft. So if the profile saves that virtual device keys, I will be able to use only one VRNeckSafer folder and do not mess with the more simple keys I use for IL2.  I hope I explained myself correctly.  Thanks.

 

Well, your profile is kept in the VRNeckSafer.cfg file. You could keep two of them and exchange them accordingly. Personally I'm already having a hard time remembering all those buttons and have to have them similar at all my sims... 😅

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09.01.2021 в 11:03, shaun57 сказал:

That latest test version is now working perfectly for me in DCS

Where can I download it?

 

08.01.2021 в 22:00, J2_NobiWan сказал:

I did not find where to download it there

 VRNeckSaferV15.zip and  VRNeckSaferV16.zip  may downlowds,but test -no

Edited by huligan
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1 hour ago, huligan said:

Where can I download it?

 

I did not find where to download it there

 VRNeckSaferV15.zip and  VRNeckSaferV16.zip  may downlowds,but test -no

 

The "test version" is outdated and should not be used any more. V1.6 is the latest version and should be used.

 

The download link on the first post of this thread will always link to the newest version.

Edited by J2_NobiWan
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