Jump to content

Simple tool to check your six


Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

From what you write I suspect something is overwriting the the offset angle. Is it possible that you had OVR Advanced Settings running before? I had some difficulty to get rid of it, even though I uninstalled it. Maybe another tool that I don't know?

 

Something else you could try is to test it in SteamVR Home. If the app is working there it has something to do with your IL2 settings.

As a last resort you might try to reinstall SteamVR...

 

Good suggestions. I'll fiddle with things today, and post if I come up with anything significant.

 

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm making progress. Maybe it has something to do with everything being freshly rebooted, instead of just individual programs and apps.

 

When I have IL2 paused, the app works exactly as it should, both with manual rotation and with the auto function. With the game unpaused, I exhibit the same problem that gascan is experiencing. When I click to rotate left, my view is displaced to the outside right side of the aircraft,  behind the pilot. When I click to rotate right, my view displaced to immediately in front of the prop. (?!)

 

I'm going to fiddle some more, but figured I'd mention this now in case it helps resolve gascan's problem.

5 hours ago, gascan said:

Well I tried the VR Neck Saver. It worked, but had a strange issue. Whenever it added to my head rotation, it also displaced my head to the side. I took a few screenshots to show what it looked like (low resolution, sorry), and you can see that my head is well outside the cockpit. This gave me a great view of the side of my machine, which is a bit beside the point. If my head were still inside the cockpit, it would make it much easier to look behind me. Any ideas why it's displacing my head as well as rotating? I tried with both the buttons and the autorotate, and they seem to be working correctly. The issue is that whenever the head rotation is applied (whether from the buttons or the autorotate), the head moves as well. Otherwise, it looks like it'll really be nice. Thanks, @J2_NobiWan.

Oh, and I second @Alonzo's request for progressive rotation (more rotation as you rotate your head). That could make it a smoother experience to scan behind you. I did something similar for a pan/tilt FPV setup on a set of radio controlled B-17's my brother and I flew a few years ago.

 

gascan, when you pause IL2, does the view app work correctly for you? That is what is happening for me. When IL2 is un-paused I experience view displacement similar to yours.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, gascan said:

Well I tried the VR Neck Saver. It worked, but had a strange issue. Whenever it added to my head rotation, it also displaced my head to the side. I took a few screenshots to show what it looked like (low resolution, sorry), and you can see that my head is well outside the cockpit. This gave me a great view of the side of my machine, which is a bit beside the point. If my head were still inside the cockpit, it would make it much easier to look behind me. Any ideas why it's displacing my head as well as rotating? I tried with both the buttons and the autorotate, and they seem to be working correctly. The issue is that whenever the head rotation is applied (whether from the buttons or the autorotate), the head moves as well. Otherwise, it looks like it'll really be nice. Thanks, @J2_NobiWan.

 

2 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

Seems you did add lateral offset? And it really is working great!  Should you be in an experimentative mode perhaps try some medial offset? Meaning offset head pos a bit forward (towards prop) when snap6, so that the headrest doesn't flood fill your view so much. Though I realize the ranges allowed here are very small.

 

Actually there should be no positional offset at all, only rotation, but I can reproduce what you guys are seeing. Let me explain...:

 

To keep it simple and to prevent my brain from exploding from the complex und badly documented matrix calculation in SteamVR I am rotating the visible world around the center of the VR universe. This is working well as long as you are sitting in the centre of the universe.  As far as I understand, the center is defined while setting up the chaperon/guardian for your setup. So, if you did the setup for example in the centre of the room and then sit down on your pilot seat a meter away from that position you will see a positional offset when using the app.

You can easily check your center of the universe by quitting il-2. This should bring you to the SteamVR plains with the mountain range at the horizon. On the ground there is a circular grid around the center of the universe. Ideally you will see that center directly below you when looking down:

Qc2YEmP.jpg

 

If you are not centered it will look like this:

K5DNQ3v.jpg

 

So for now, if you see a positional offset, an easy solution would be to reset the chaperone/guardian while sitting on you pilot seat.

In theory it should be possible to compensate for the offset internally in the app, but I wasnt able to make it work yet.

 

Hope this make sense somehow. :)

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've yet to discover how to set/reset the center in SteamVR (mountain range). I think I'm centered in it but I'm not facing perfectly forward (the arrow on the ground is pointing off to the right). That would explain why the auto-rotate is off for me (which isn't a biggie as the POV hat solution works perfectly).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JG51-Hetzer said:

I've yet to discover how to set/reset the center in SteamVR (mountain range). I think I'm centered in it but I'm not facing perfectly forward (the arrow on the ground is pointing off to the right). That would explain why the auto-rotate is off for me (which isn't a biggie as the POV hat solution works perfectly).

Hetzer, I'm using a Rift S and to recenter it I go into the Oculus app -> Devices -> Rift S and Touch -> Guardian Setup.

 

However, the "not facing perfectly forward" should not be an issue. Thats exactly what the "reset" button is made for.

 

Are You using the latest version of the app? Because the first version had a problem that might could lead to the behaviour you describe...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, J2_NobiWan said:

Hetzer, I'm using a Rift S and to recenter it I go into the Oculus app -> Devices -> Rift S and Touch -> Guardian Setup.

 

However, the "not facing perfectly forward" should not be an issue. Thats exactly what the "reset" button is made for.

 

Are You using the latest version of the app? Because the first version had a problem that might could lead to the behaviour you describe...


Yes, I have installed and used #2, exact same issue as #1. #2 didn't give all the weird flickering and whatnot in auto however.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

What might be interesting (and yes, this is feature creep, feel free to decline!) is to have automatic non-linear rotation 'boost' for the final portion of someone's ability to turn their head. So if I can comfortably turn my head 120 degrees and uncomfortably crank to 130, but I want a physical 130 degree turn to be a virtual 150 degree turn, could I get the software to 'boost' my head turn in that final portion? Kind of like a curve on a joystick or something. That might make it less noticeable in a dogfight, it's not a sudden increase, it's a "head crank helper" sort of thing.

 

Physical Rotation / Mapped Rotation:

  • 100 / 100
  • 110 / 110
  • 120 / 130
  • 130 / 150

I have no idea if these numbers are reasonable, I actually find it pretty hard to rotate my head further than 90 degrees while keeping shoulders straight, but of course that's not how I fly the plane, I'm moving my whole body to look behind me. If the boost only kicks in fairly far round my rotation, I can still comfortably look at a wingman left/right without having anything odd happen, it would only take effect when I'm really trying hard to see behind me.

 

Alonzo, I think that would be a perfect recipe for immideate puke... :) 

I've read that perfect alignment of rotational motion and VR Vision is essential for not getting sick. Having said that, it might be interesting to check if this is really true... 🧐

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

Hetzer, I'm using a Rift S and to recenter it I go into the Oculus app -> Devices -> Rift S and Touch -> Guardian Setup.

 

However, the "not facing perfectly forward" should not be an issue. Thats exactly what the "reset" button is made for.

 

Are You using the latest version of the app? Because the first version had a problem that might could lead to the behaviour you describe...

This worked perfectly for me, the offset is fixed. Thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok thank you that would make sense because Nothing would pop up when I went to run

 

 

Thank you I enabled back to steam vr and my god this is a game changer. Wish I could use on open composite because my performance seems better bypassing steam vr but this is worth it alone! My necks been very sore these last two weeks. Thanks again and cheers !

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

Alonzo, I think that would be a perfect recipe for immideate puke... :) 

I've read that perfect alignment of rotational motion and VR Vision is essential for not getting sick. Having said that, it might be interesting to check if this is really true...

 

Since you are a very good citizen and the code is on GitLab, I shall say "challenge accepted" and write something to test it out. Will report back. To be clear, though, I'm suggesting an additional "head crank" only for the very last part of the rotation, where someone is already well over 100 degrees of rotation, probably half out of their seat, etc. But you're right, it might be awful, I'll try it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JG51-Hetzer said:


Yes, I have installed and used #2, exact same issue as #1. #2 didn't give all the weird flickering and whatnot in auto however.

 

That's strange... does the HMD Yaw value next to the "Enable" checkbox show "0 deg" when looking straight ahead? If it doesn' try pressing "reset" again...

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

 

That's strange... does the HMD Yaw value next to the "Enable" checkbox show "0 deg" when looking straight ahead? If it doesn' try pressing "reset" again...

 

It currently does but I don't know if that's because I just pressed "Reset". Lol. I'll try it in-game on my next mission.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Black-Witch said:

Hmmm, I'll leave this mod thanks, I prefer the feeling of realism of only being able to see as far as my neck will allow, much more like I've got flying goggles on, a parachute, a mae west and seat harness.

 

If one could go to the neck doctor's appointment still wearing goggles, it might be the ultimate immersion experience!

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J2_NobiWan said:

 

It's currently SteamVR only.

As I just found out trying to run it! I saw this thread and had to get to my PC and try it. Dangit! I'm running a RiftS on OpencompositeVR.  Not being able to more easily check my 6 in VR is probably my biggest gripe with the game. Like you, after a while--it just hurts! Just a few extra degrees would be a massive help! Thanks for coming up with this for the rest tho.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Black-Witch said:

Hmmm, I'll leave this mod thanks, I prefer the feeling of realism of only being able to see as far as my neck will allow, much more like I've got flying goggles on, a parachute, a mae west and seat harness.

 

Witch

 

 

If I may ask a quick question here?

 

”What size flying boots do you wear?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only issue i have experienced is that when i turn left to check 6 i can move towards the gunsight while looking back while when i turn right side i can't. I am using snap +75. Maybe it is me but maybe it is an issue somewhere else?

 

Edit: Fixed it, reason was that steamVR wasn't centered precisely

Edited by Operation_Ivy
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, J2_NobiWan said:

So for now, if you see a positional offset, an easy solution would be to reset the chaperone/guardian while sitting on you pilot seat.

In theory it should be possible to compensate for the offset internally in the app, but I wasnt able to make it work yet.

 

Hope this make sense somehow. :)

 

Cheers, J2_NobiWan

 

Hello, that's not easy also to be centered. There are mysteries of steamVR + Windows MR that made recentering working for me just few seconds or minutes...I had the same issue with the other solutions. That's too bad you can't just add an angle to what the HMD is reporting...

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So I switched to SteamVR just to check this out. Took a bit to get all that setup and then this little app. Took a hop in a quick mission and... Wow! As far as I'm concerned it's a game changer for IL2 in VR. Finally I can just look around and not have to worry about an actual neck injury! I tried it with and without a hat. Hat works. I'm used to that playing in Aces High in VR where that's part of the view system so that came naturally to me. But using it by rotation angle alone is much more intuitive. It's almost as good as TIR. Really close. If you could tweak it with curves somehow it'd be dead on! Just turn your head and look like I did with TIR. I had no problem at all following another plane in a turning fight or scanning the sky behind me. Very nice. 

 

Can't thank you enough for coming up with this. That few extra degrees makes all the difference. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I tried a second time. I located the center of my play area and moved my simpit there. When I started the neck saver program, it relocated the center to one of my base stations. This, of course, resulted in the same issue I ran into before: since it rotates the center and I was not seated in the very center, my whole world moved instead of just my head. As soon as I closed the neck saver, the center of the play area instantly returned to where it was previously.

I tried it a third time in a quick mission with spectators disabled, which limits the VR view. With the view limited, my head only moves off to the side of the cockpit rather than outside of the plane. I figured this was as close as I was gonna get to having it working correctly, so I did a skirmish with a bunch of planes. Sure enough, a few latched onto my six and I got to try the neck saver. Just like everyone else has been saying, it really does work! This really makes a huge difference when looking backwards, an issue that TIR users don't suffer. I kinda wish it was implemented in the game, without having to use a third-party program. It's not that I don't trust Nobiwan, it's just one more program to start up before I can play.

Also, 

Now I just need to figure out why my center changes when I start the program. Is anyone else using the Valve Index?

 

Quote

 I've read that perfect alignment of rotational motion and VR Vision is essential for not getting sick. Having said that, it might be interesting to check if this is really true... 🧐

Not entirely true. I've seen some interesting tests and games that specifically have a misalignment between the virtual movement and actual movement. It is used for making some really mind-boggling non-euclidian spaces, but doesn't apparently cause motion sickness. Here's a discussion of non-linear use with motion controllers while maintaining "body ownership."

Edited by gascan
comment on quote
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2020 at 9:51 PM, J2_NobiWan said:

Guys, since a short while I started flying in VR exclusivly and soon started to feel some pain in my not so young neck, caused by panically trying to see the guy on my six.

 

There is a solution to this by using OVR Advanced Settings in combination with some other tools in order to map an angular offset to your viewing angle by pressing a joystick button as shown by @c6_lefuneste and others. This solution however felt a bit complicated and also not perfectly intuitive. I wanted to have the viewing offset only while pressing the button and reset to normal when releasing it. So I created a simple standalone tool VRNeckSafer to do exactly this.  .....  Cheers, J2_NobiWan

 

Alas i have not bought a VR contraption yet, but with my arthritis neck problems i really could uses it driving my car.

2 speeding tickets last year costed enough to cover the whole VR itself !

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

If I may ask a quick question here?

 

”What size flying boots do you wear?

 

OK, I'll play :)

 

size 11.

 

Are you gonna say that I should wear flying boots instead of trainers? seeing as control of the rudder is a simple task that requires no dexterity, apart from your knees, that hardly compares to, imho, a "cheat" that allows you to look further behind than is humanly possible. Still, you'll have the same, riduculous, view as TrackIR users, so.... shrug.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, gascan said:

Well I tried a second time. I located the center of my play area and moved my simpit there. When I started the neck saver program, it relocated the center to one of my base stations. This, of course, resulted in the same issue I ran into before: since it rotates the center and I was not seated in the very center, my whole world moved instead of just my head. As soon as I closed the neck saver, the center of the play area instantly returned to where it was previously.

I tried it a third time in a quick mission with spectators disabled, which limits the VR view. With the view limited, my head only moves off to the side of the cockpit rather than outside of the plane. I figured this was as close as I was gonna get to having it working correctly, so I did a skirmish with a bunch of planes. Sure enough, a few latched onto my six and I got to try the neck saver. Just like everyone else has been saying, it really does work!

 

I've been playing with the tool a bit, and I have the same outcome: I set the center of my play area to my seated position, but if I have spectator view enabled, using the snap turn positions my view to one of the base stations. If I have spectators disabled, my head stays in the aircraft and I can see behind me, but I get a lateral offset. This means I can look over one shoulder okay, but if I do the other shoulder I end up looking directly at the seat behind me.

 

The code is doing this when you tell it to alter the angle of the head:

OpenVR.ChaperoneSetup.SetWorkingStandingZeroPoseToRawTrackingPose(ref rotatedCenter);
OpenVR.ChaperoneSetup.ShowWorkingSetPreview();

Where rotatedCenter is a matrix that does the requested angular rotation around zero. My graphics/matrix skills are zero so it would take me a lot of hacking to do anything else, but as I understand it this is changing the center of the chaperone when a rotation is requested. So, questions:

  • Instead of doing anything to chaperone, can we tell SteamVR to alter the pose instead? Basically disconnect the pose from the actual rotation of the HMD? (The answer might be "nope, can't do that, SteamVR doesn't let you", I dunno)
  • If we do need to mess with the chaperone zero position, can we do it based on the current head pose when the button is pressed, instead of this 'rotated center' which is at (0, 0, 0) ?
  • Do we have any idea what the SteamVR "snap turn" stuff is doing from those other solutions? I agree they are a painful hack and I prefer this version, it's much cleaner, but it's also suffering from the offset problem right now. Can we learn something from the other solutions?
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2020 at 2:28 AM, Black-Witch said:

 

OK, I'll play :)

 

size 11.

 

Are you gonna say that I should wear flying boots instead of trainers? seeing as control of the rudder is a simple task that requires no dexterity, apart from your knees, that hardly compares to, imho, a "cheat" that allows you to look further behind than is humanly possible. Still, you'll have the same, riduculous, view as TrackIR users, so.... shrug.

 

Not at all my friend and your stance is admirable. Noble, one might say and expected from a paragon of virtue such as yourself. 

 

But if I might be so indelicate as to bring up the subject of your likely and most assuredly pending death brought about by possessing principles more amicable to the year 1910 where going to war was a sport. The size of your boots would be advantageous to know. On the off chance I was in the area where you might have fallen to the ground.  Good boots dont grow on trees you know.

Edited by TWC_Sp00k
  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Alonzo said:
  • Instead of doing anything to chaperone, can we tell SteamVR to alter the pose instead? Basically disconnect the pose from the actual rotation of the HMD? (The answer might be "nope, can't do that, SteamVR doesn't let you", I dunno)

Can't tell if there is a way to directly alter the pose. I had a look at the OVR Advanced Settings code and they are going the chaperone way too. This makes me believe that this might be the only way.

 

5 hours ago, Alonzo said:
  • If we do need to mess with the chaperone zero position, can we do it based on the current head pose when the button is pressed, instead of this 'rotated center' which is at (0, 0, 0) ?

Yes, this would be the way to go in my eyes. I believe OVRAS is somehow transfering the current HMD pose to zero position, rotates it there and transfers it back to its original position. I'm still not sure though, because that code is not exactly easy to read... ;). I didn't bother with it so far, because my simplistic version works nicely for my Rift S and I didn't expected it to be different for other brands of goggles. However it looks like different drivers are giving different results. Just as c6_lefuneste said: "There are mysteries of steamVR + Windows MR that made recentering working for me just few seconds or minutes...I had the same issue with the other solutions".  Im planning to fiddle with it in the next few days, lets see what will come from that...

 

5 hours ago, Alonzo said:
  • Do we have any idea what the SteamVR "snap turn" stuff is doing from those other solutions? I agree they are a painful hack and I prefer this version, it's much cleaner, but it's also suffering from the offset problem right now. Can we learn something from the other solutions?

I am only aware of OVRAS. Are there other solutions?

 

Btw.: Today I had a look at OpenComposite and tried to link against their library. Unfortunately their code doesn't give access to internal stuff (like chaperone) for external apps. So for now it looks like we are stuck with SteamVR.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

 

Not at all my friend and your stance is admirable. Noble, one might say and expected from a paragon of virtue such as yourself. 

 

But if I might be so indelicate as to bring up the subject of your likely and most assuredly pending death brought about principles more applicable in 1910 where going to war was a sport, the size of your boots would be advantageous to know in the off chance I was in the area where you fall to the ground.  Good boots dont grow on trees you know.

Well my boots will only suit someone after me if they have similar bunions, otherwise the fit would be "loose" :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again thank you so much this is really a game changer! The only problem though is having to use this steamvr crap and not open composite. I have stuttering and glitch issues here and there that don’t happen on open composite but it’s worth it for my neck and ease of view. I hope there is a similar software to use in the future with open composite 🙏 but thank you so much J2 I appreciate this

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2020 at 2:02 PM, MA_Goblin said:

All of a sudden my antivirus blocks and erases both VR NeckSafe and Steam VR vr server as malicious

Hi MA_Goblin, yes, this is pretty annoying... The current downloadable version seems to be less prone to false alerts. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, J2_NobiWan said:

Hi MA_Goblin, yes, this is pretty annoying... The current downloadable version seems to be less prone to false alerts. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem, it seems to have been corrected and as of now the program is accepted by Bitdefender.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

How do you enable this back to VR...does it go in the Steam VR folder?  Someone explain it to me as if they were attempting to teach a monkey.

In my case, I just put the .exe file in a random folder. When you run it, it creates a .cfg with your settings in it.  I created a shortcut to the .exe file on my desktop and run the program before I start the Windows Mixed Reality program (that automatically launces SteamVR) then start IL2.  Note that this is for a HP Reverb G2. 

 

If I start VRNeckSafer after starting the Windows Mixed Reality program it does not work, need to start it first. Hope this helps!   As others have discovered it only works with SteamVR.

Edited by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
duplicate text removed.
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

In my case, I just put the .exe file in a random folder. When you run it, it creates a .cfg with your settings in it.  I created a shortcut to the .exe file on my desktop and run the program before I start the Windows Mixed Reality program (that automatically launces SteamVR) then start IL2.  Note that this is for a HP Reverb G2. 

 

If I start VRNeckSafer after starting the Windows Mixed Reality program it does not work, need to start it first. Hope this helps!   As others have discovered it only works with SteamVR.

Thank you. I have a HP G2, will give that method a go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...