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Ear candy


planesyplanesy
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planesyplanesy

Hi folks

Yep that's right, ear candy not eye candy!

We all have a common interest in warbirds.

That magical mix of design, paint schemes, performance and SOUND!

Well I have a genuine question that has puzzled me over recent years.

Why is it that the old (but wonderful, in my opinion!) IL2 1946 platform has far better sounding and convincing engine sounds compared to great battles and CLOD/dessert wings?

Like most of us I cut my flight sim combat teeth in IL2 Sturmovik almost 20 years ago. Then all the aircraft sounded like a combination of a tractor and a hair dryer!!

But over the years the engine sounds improved beyond compare with the help of the mod community. They are awesome!

So why is it that two decades later we have the superbly enhanced graphic experience of the new IL2  in various platforms with amazing game designers but the engine sounds are far short of what is available in the oldest version of the game?

Surely the game designers can come up with something these days almost identical to what we all used to love to hear at airshows not so long ago?

Sorry, this is a gratuitous passion and obsession of mine in flight sims that has gone on for years  and I have longed for the day that someone would come up with an add on to the franchise called 'Airshow' where we could all enjoy the experience of 'flying' our favourite warbirds and creating our own programme of displays.

Imagine having an online server or additional maps that had Duxford, Shuttleworth, Oshkosh or Reno so we could dial in or go solo to fly a collection of warbirds and create our own 'Balbo'!! 😎

Interested to hear your thoughts, comments and observations.

Take care all.

 

Planesy

 

 

 

 

 

2020.12.15 17-14-41.jpg

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Thoughts and observations?

 

Original 1946 sounds were best. Proper surround. Subtle details!... I could hear an engine go bad. Not with a sudden bang/clunk, but some extra bit of very subtle grinding, that was gradually increasing ... on a long flight home, after a bit of battling, suddenly hearing that was very worrying... Mods basically ruined that for me.

 

Cliffs of Dover also had proper Surround sound.

 

But no longer.  As it now uses similar technique as GBS. Stereo. Only Stereo.

Yuck.

Must be me. Oh well.

 

Oh, and for me it's not about silly flyby sounds. It's about in-cockpit sounds. Immersion.

(I've listened to the Duxford Balbo. Lying flat on the ground, on my back, eyes closed. My my my.... wow!)

 

Have Fun!

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If we had proper in cockpit sounds of WW2 aircraft, played at correct db levels, we would all be deaf in short order.

 

Anything the developers do sonically has to be a compromise between hardware capabilities, health concerns, player expectations, and costs.

 

The only War Birds I have flown in are a B17, and a B25.  The 17 is quite tolerable, as it's turbocharged engines are effectively muffled by the turbos.  The 25 on the other hand was the loudest thing I have ever been in by a substantial margin.  Without ear protection you would have measurable hearing loss in no time.  Without intercoms, you had to shout almost at the top of your capability to be understood by someone right next to you, with their ear protection off.

 

With this in mind, I do think that the interior engine sound should be higher in the mix, but overall this is a good step forward for the sim.

 

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Bremspropeller

I think the engine *sound* might need a bit of a beef-up. Some aircraft are soundling like a lawnmower on meth.

I think investing some time there might be more fruiful than searching for the perfect balance of just loudness.

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=FEW=fernando11

I'm prety sure I read this same question on the forum some years ago.

IIRC the thing is that all the cool modded sounds on old 1946, work on a very specific Situation

 

On this new game engine, sounds are dinamic, so even if you put the real sound and make it work on a given situation, it wont work in all other places where it sould.

 

And about making the existing sistem "better" it could be nice. But at what cost in $ and time?

What would you rather they dont do, or postpone so they can look at improuving the sounds?

 

 

That being said, I'm all for better sounds in general

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19 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

I think the engine *sound* might need a bit of a beef-up. Some aircraft are soundling like a lawnmower on meth.

I think investing some time there might be more fruiful than searching for the perfect balance of just loudness.

Might it be possible to split the different sounds up and make them adjustable to suit each persons ideas/set up?

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I haven't played IL-2 1946 in probably 10 years (unmodded) but really? You think '46 sounds better than this sim? The '46 sound I remember had maybe 3 different generic airplane noises, each plane started with the exact same sound. It wasn't very good. IL-2 GB blows it out of the water. I've never played the modded version so maybe it's better now but that's going from me playing IL-2 46 from 2003-2010 and I always thought the sound was the weakest link in that sim.

 

Each plane in IL-GB has a very distinct engine noise and something is different in each plane, I think that's pretty cool.

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I would love to see a complete overhaul on the engine sounds. I fly mostly German planes and i've never liked how their engines sound in this game, especially the 109's and 190's. To me they sound way too tame.

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1 hour ago, Fa_LeftyHC said:

I would love to see a complete overhaul on the engine sounds. I fly mostly German planes and i've never liked how their engines sound in this game, especially the 109's and 190's. To me they sound way too tame.


They defo don't sound like in-cockpit recordings (real planes) but mics aren't the same as human ears. I'd like them to sound like what they do through a mic however.

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13 hours ago, DD_FT- said:

Original 1946 sounds were best. Proper surround. Subtle details!... I could hear an engine go bad. Not with a sudden bang/clunk, but some extra bit of very subtle grinding, that was gradually increasing ... on a long flight home, after a bit of battling, suddenly hearing that was very worrying...

 

I think the engines currently sound alright in terms of uniqueness from plane to plane, but I agree: the sound of specific engine damage(s) needs to be modelled in some detail. Not just as a fun bit of extraneous immersion, but for actual value in estimating how much time you've got before your engine seizes up.

Edited by oc2209
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Some of the engine sounds can be quite irritating.  The P-39 for example is one aircraft I really like to fly, but the the engine noise gets to me after about 15 minutes and I usually quit out of it.   The 109 series is difficult to tolerate for me too and I had to alter the entire sound setup on my computer to minimise the on and off noise of a separate little petrol engine that occurred every time I turned my head to the left and right.  The new oxygen mask noise is a problem too, and sounds like someone whistling through a blocked nostril.  I find it best to fly at lower altitudes now so I can avoid it altogether.  

 


 

 

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6./ZG26_5tuka
On 12/17/2020 at 4:15 PM, =FEW=fernando11 said:

On this new game engine, sounds are dinamic, so even if you put the real sound and make it work on a given situation, it wont work in all other places where it sould.

 

Thats the point. It takes more than a pationate modder to accomplish this, namely a sound engineer, who creates samples for each and every component of the aircraft.

 

The easy days of just recording an aircraft inside and out and putting it 1:1 into the game are gone. Now you've got to have multiple samples of many elements and mixing them together to get both an accustically and technically authentic representation.

 

When we still could take a peak into their FMod libary the scale of that was quite apparent. Each engine has different sound events such as exhaust, propeller, turbocharcher, supercharger, mechanical damage. Each of that is bound to certain properties like RPM, engine load, turbo/supercharger speed, airspeed ect. so each of it needs an according amount of samples (sound files).

 

It's difficult to extract certain elements of aircraft noise which is why synthesizing and sampling of sounds from other sources is crutial to get the number of sounds required. The downside of this is that although the technical representation of such model is very accurate given all properties are taken into account for in their various events, the accustical side may not provide the same level of imersion due to less authentic or too clinical sounds files. It also falls short when only few or no original source audio is availabel in which case most of the required sounds have to be created through sampling.

 

As as example, in order to create a Stuka dive siren sound for a mod in another sim I couldn't source any original audio in good quality so I ended up sampling the required sound file from a Honda racing engine on a test stand screaming at high RPM. This became the result:

 

To clear things up, I'm not afiliated with 777s sound engineer nor do I know how and why he/she creates their sounds. This post relates to my own expirience across multiple flight sim engines and with sound modding in general.

 

17 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Some of the engine sounds can be quite irritating.  The P-39 for example is one aircraft I really like to fly, but the the engine noise gets to me after about 15 minutes and I usually quit out of it.  

 

Thats probably due to the unfamiliar sound of the prop shaft which is a perfect example for the description above. Technicly it's 100% accurate and an element of the aircrafts sound scape. Accusticly it may differ slightly due to the sampled nature of it. This is what it sounds like in the original.

Also don't forget you have the engine in the back which provides for additional meat-muffling.

 

21 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

Each plane in IL-GB has a very distinct engine noise and something is different in each plane, I think that's pretty cool.

In IL2 1946 every aircraft with a DB605/601 sounds the same. In IL-2 every aircraft with a DB engine (including the Macchi) feautures some difference to account for the generational changes and upgrades.

 

20 hours ago, Fa_LeftyHC said:

I would love to see a complete overhaul on the engine sounds. I fly mostly German planes and i've never liked how their engines sound in this game, especially the 109's and 190's. To me they sound way too tame.

Thats odd since the Bf 109s thankfully use original audio recordings sourced from Black 6 (and probably other 109s).

 

18 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

I think the engines currently sound alright in terms of uniqueness from plane to plane, but I agree: the sound of specific engine damage(s) needs to be modelled in some detail. Not just as a fun bit of extraneous immersion, but for actual value in estimating how much time you've got before your engine seizes up.

A more detailed engine damage model (knocking, preignition, misfires) was anounced to be developed in future. I'm sure new sounds will come along with it.

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Sound is very system/speakers/headphones dependent.

 

Listen on some £10 speakers and it'll sound very bad.  Listen on some £300 headphones with the sound turned up and you hear a lot more and it really rocks.  You won't get that vibration in your stomach that you get when a Merlin or DB605 thunders by, but for sure it sounds way better.

 

The one compromise on sound is for those that use voice comms - it is hard to hear anyone if you get the game sound turned up. 

 

von Tom

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48 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_5tuka said:

Thats odd since the Bf 109s thankfully use original audio recordings sourced from Black 6 (and probably other 109s).

 

This i know but compared to some recordings found on Youtube, including the one supposedly used for this game, the in-game engine sounds are thin.

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planesyplanesy

Hi Guys

 

Thanks for all your comments and observations.

I appreciate its difficult but the sounds I prefer outdate the latest patches of BOS.

I don't expect the cockpit sounds to be deafening of course but the external sound on static Camera and flyby once recorded is where the rewards come.

Agreed its a personal taste but having once been very fortunate years ago to be up close  to most of the Warbirds over the years at Duxford and Shuttleworth ( I was a hanger rat and loved it!) for me the sounds of the engines gave them all a personality as well as their paint schemes!

I think I mentioned last time I downloaded 1946 again purely because I think the engine sounds are better than the latest offerings.

It would be nice just to have those sounds with the graphics of BOS or CLOD as I'm sure they could do better.

If you listen to the BF109, FW190D, Spitfire , P-40, Mustang, Corsair, Mosquito and Sea Fury they all have distinctive differences. The Lancaster and the early and late variant Spitfires are unmistakably Merlin and Griffon which for me is a superb effort.  The 109 in BOS sounds good but the Spitfire doesn't sound like a Spitfire. However, the Spitfire and Hurricane in CLOD/Dessert Wings sound great but post flyby in the distance?

Try it you'll see what I mean.

So come on Jason lets throw a challenge down to the team to get the best sounding flight sim Merlin powered aircraft you can get.

Oh and the Tempest is a good try but sounds like a crippled hoover!

 

Happy Christmas all.

 

Planesy

 

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Il2 1946 had pretty bad, generic sounds. It was a great sim for its time on many aspects, just not sound.

 

Il2Gb has a better sound engine.

 

They however both sound terrible when compared to Tiger33 soundmods, but you can only hear these in 46 right now.

 

Want to feel like you're in Duxford ?

 

Go play 46 with tiger's mod.

 

I'm convinced GB team has the talent and ressources to equal  or surpass Tiger's 46 mod, they just need the will. Yet, they already improved over standard 46 sounds, imho.

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planesyplanesy
1 hour ago, KGM_Roll said:

Il2 1946 had pretty bad, generic sounds. It was a great sim for its time on many aspects, just not sound.

 

Il2Gb has a better sound engine.

 

They however both sound terrible when compared to Tiger33 soundmods, but you can only hear these in 46 right now.

 

Want to feel like you're in Duxford ?

 

Go play 46 with tiger's mod.

 

I'm convinced GB team has the talent and ressources to equal  or surpass Tiger's 46 mod, they just need the will. Yet, they already improved over standard 46 sounds, imho.

HI

Yes I'm up to 4.12.2 with the BAT mod World at War and it has those awesome engine sounds which is my point as to why they cant be that good with BOS or CLOD/ Desert wings? I think your right its the will so maybe if enough of us out there made the plea it may happen?? 

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BAT has OK sounds, but again it's far from tiger's mod. Not as far as 46 or GB, but still far (imho)

 

HSFX has it, VPmedia too IIRC.

 

About the plea, won't work. Only wallet voting works, and well....  I didn't vote much I guess 😅

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LLv24_SukkaVR

 

On 12/23/2020 at 6:39 PM, planesyplanesy said:

HI

Yes I'm up to 4.12.2 with the BAT mod World at War and it has those awesome engine sounds which is my point as to why they cant be that good with BOS or CLOD/ Desert wings? I think your right its the will so maybe if enough of us out there made the plea it may happen?? 

 

Try listening for them in other directions too. 1946 sounds are all the same no matter what angle you listen them to.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I love good engine sounds in a flight sim and I think they've done a good job overall. That being said there are certainly some planes that have been done better than others. The only real gripe I have is the P40's external sound. It sounds fine in the cockpit but externally it sounds nothing like it should, although it has a really good "drone" from far away. That was done well but when you're close it sounds wrong. I particularly like the way the Hurricane sounds came out.

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