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Valve Index vs Reverb G2, my view (with through the lens pictures)


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8 hours ago, dburne said:

I personally recommend using the following:

Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR Beta ( you download this from the Steam store).

Steam VR Beta.

 

When you install the G2 it is going to install the standard Windows Mixed Reality to get you set up, and that is fine.

But you will also want the two aforementioned programs as well.

When I power on my headset the standard Windows Mixed Reality opens automatically. I close that down.

Then I launch Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR, and it will launch and also launch Steam and Steam VR for you.

Then just minimize it, and launch the game.

 

@dburne, are you able to actually quit WMR after it autostarts when you power up your G2? Or are you simply minimizing it?

 

I'm not using the beta version of SteamVR, just the current 1.15.19 release. I also don't use Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR.

 

When I power up my G2 the standard WMR launches, and I minimize it. If I quit WMR it also shuts down my SteamVR.

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6 hours ago, Charlo-VR said:

 

@dburne, are you able to actually quit WMR after it autostarts when you power up your G2? Or are you simply minimizing it?

 

I'm not using the beta version of SteamVR, just the current 1.15.19 release. I also don't use Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR.

 

When I power up my G2 the standard WMR launches, and I minimize it. If I quit WMR it also shuts down my SteamVR.

 

When I first power on my headset, only the regular Windows Mixed Reality opens. 

As mentioned I close it completely. I find it does not play as nice with Steam VR as the WMR for Steam VR does.

I then launch WMR for Steam VR Beta, and it launches along with Steam and Steam VR. I then launch the game from my desktop.

When finished, I close Steam VR first, then I closes WMR for Steam VR Beta. Till the next flight - I usually take a break between flights.

When I am done, I power down the G2. ( Have it plugged into a powered USB3 Hub with individual on/off switches, so I just switch it off at the hub.

 

The above method works very well for me and it never seems to glitch or anything on me. 

I also am subscribed to the Beta of both WMR for Steam VR and Steam VR beta.

And I use this thing probably around 3-4 hours a day just about every day.

Edited by dburne
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Well, just thought I would add my own little anecdote to this thread. I am returning my HP Reverb G2. I was noticing increasing eye strain when using it, and then started actually having issues with a wandering eye that did not seem to converge properly in daily life. Needless to say, this was very concerning. Especially for someone who has up to this point had absolutely perfect vision. I realized that if closed one eye in the headset, one eye was always viewing a slightly blurry/out of focus image. I could shift the headset on my head to provide the blurry eye clarity, but then the other eye was blurry. It was very subtle and no amount of IPD adjustment would solve this. I'm not sure if its a function of the reduced sweet spot or the lenses on mine were not installed correctly or that the headset does not fit my face structure for whatever reason. However, I reached out to HP to attempt to exchange the unit as defective. After trouble shooting over chat, they concluded that this was a normal variation of experience based upon the design and that it was simply not a good fit for my face. I do find this odd as I have never experienced this with any other headset. As an aside, my IPD is 64mm, squarely in the center of the advertised range.  In any case, they did not want to do an exchange and by the time we were done I was simply glad they had finally consented to take it back and refund me. I may consider an Index, however right now, I am back to using my old Odyssey + and the instant relief and comfort for my eyes was remarkable. 

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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10 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Well, just thought I would add my own little anecdote to this thread. I am returning my HP Reverb G2. I was noticing increasing eye strain when using it, and then started actually having issues with a wandering eye that did not seem to converge properly in daily life. Needless to say, this was very concerning. Especially for someone who has up to this point had absolutely perfect vision. I realized that if closed one eye in the headset, one eye was always viewing a slightly blurry/out of focus image. I could shift the headset on my head to provide the blurry eye clarity, but then the other eye was blurry. It was very subtle and no amount of IPD adjustment would solve this. I'm not sure if its a function of the reduced sweet spot or the lenses on mine were not installed correctly or that the headset does not fit my face structure for whatever reason. However, I reached out to HP to attempt to exchange the unit as defective. After trouble shooting over chat, they concluded that this was a normal variation of experience based upon the design and that it was simply not a good fit for my face. I do find this odd as I have never experienced this with any other headset. As an aside, my IPD is 64mm, squarely in the center of the advertised range.  In any case, they did not want to do an exchange and by the time we were done I was simply glad they had finally consented to take it back and refund me. I may consider an Index, however right now, I am back to using my old Odyssey + and the instant relief and comfort for my eyes was remarkable. 

 

Glad they stood behind it enough to take it back.  How much time were you spending in it?

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27 minutes ago, Trefftz_Plane said:

 

Glad they stood behind it enough to take it back.  How much time were you spending in it?

 

Not an extreme amount. But I'd estimate approx 25 hours over the last two months. With 2 hour play sessions as the maximum. 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

I could shift the headset on my head to provide the blurry eye clarity, but then the other eye was blurry.

 

I had exactly the same experience with the Pimax 8KX and their native 4k displays (full 4k, not the upscaled ones). My IPD is 65mm and no matter what I did I couldn't setup the convergence correctly, even at its lowest IPD setting (60mm) the sweet spot/lens centers were wider by ~5 or more millimeters. I attributed it to the Pimax build quality control, and sold the unit with a disclaimer "works best on people with IPD of 70mm+" 😄

 

Now with G2 I don't have that problem at all. I set IPD at 65mm and both lens centers are lined up across my pupils just fine.

 

In your case I find it interesting that HP would make such a weird admission of their design deficiency. It's almost like they couldn't figure out the true root cause and just decided to forego the exchange process due to an extremely high demand for these units. Maybe you can find someone with G2 and give it a try again, who knows, maybe it was in fact defective, lenses were cut incorrectly or they had a manufacturing defect from the start. I wouldn't be surprised as I've had an experience with a faulty Index when it came out 2 years ago, the unit's LCD's screens were displaying vertical scan lines during the movement making it look like you're watching your grandma's TV 30 years ago...

 

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Yeah, I also believe you had a defective unit, because in retrospect I seemed to have had a "defective" Index as well (with unpolished lenses for incredible glare and loose headphones), shoddy built quality. I also had similar problems with the Pimax 8KX, and had to shift it around and had my eyes diverging as a result (fixed itself after I got rid of it).

 

I don't believe you'd want to assume that big manufacturers have better built quality. HP has a history of strongly being a hit or miss company regarding their headsets' built quality. Valve has had a good design but shoddy built quality as well, being new to it. Just remember the fiascos with the headphones or the Controllers' thumbsticks mass exchanges.

 

Hence, they would not admit an issue regarding assembly or with quality control, no sane PR department would let that slip. Without having tried another G2, you won't know... :S

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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Ya absolutely.

 

I was completely willing to try another headset, but the HP tech support rep was having none of it. Like you say 30speed... could be down to a limited supply. That said, pretty foolish of them to make these sorts of statements. Then I go on here and mention the experience and people read it and think... ya maybe I'll pass. I'm trying to be as fair as I can to HP, I really don't know whether its a design incompatibility with my face or a manufacturing error, but the later makes more sense. 

 

In any case, I'm not gonna sit in line again to buy another one. Wasted 6 months on that already.

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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20 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

I realized that if closed one eye in the headset, one eye was always viewing a slightly blurry/out of focus image. I could shift the headset on my head to provide the blurry eye clarity, but then the other eye was blurry. It was very subtle and no amount of IPD adjustment would solve this. I'm not sure if its a function of the reduced sweet spot or the lenses on mine were not installed correctly or that the headset does not fit my face structure for whatever reason. However, I reached out to HP to attempt to exchange the unit as defective. After trouble shooting over chat, they concluded that this was a normal variation of experience based upon the design and that it was simply not a good fit for my face. I do find this odd as I have never experienced this with any other headset. As an aside, my IPD is 64mm, squarely in the center of the advertised range.  

 

Are you 100% sure on your 64mm IPD? I have the same problem, which in my case is understandable, because I have an IPD of roughly 58mm, so one eye is always out of focus slightly. On the lowest IPD, for me it's a choice between almost crystal clear for both eyes (1mm offset from center per eye) or crystal clear for one (centered) and not so crystal clear for the other one (2mm offcentered). Your case sounds quite similar to be honest. Another reason could be, that your eyes are not on the same vertical position on your head, meaning one being slightly lower then the other one, which actually isn't that unusual. Gotta be one out of these two, you could easily test that, if you have to move the headset to the side to get a clear picture it's the IPD reason, if you have to move it up or down slightly it's the vertical eye position. 

With the small focus point on the Reverb this is more of an issue then on other headsets. I'd hope for a possible G3 that they give 2mm more of an adjustment range on both extremes to include more head anatomies. The pinnacle would be a vertical slider for each lens in additoin, but I doubt we'll see something like that on a "normal priced" headset. 

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Yep could very well be the vertical, which would be a function of the small sweet spot not taking up that slack. But ya ipd is definitely 64mm. That said, I played with all manner of compromises to see if I could get a “best blend” between both eyes. In the end, it was never totally comfortable. Frankly, with the way my eyesight was rapidly deteriorating in real life, not something I wanted to mess around with anymore. My right eye is still blurry and not right. Really hoping it clears up soon. I think/hope it’s just strain. 

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10 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Yep could very well be the vertical, which would be a function of the small sweet spot not taking up that slack. But ya ipd is definitely 64mm. That said, I played with all manner of compromises to see if I could get a “best blend” between both eyes. In the end, it was never totally comfortable. Frankly, with the way my eyesight was rapidly deteriorating in real life, not something I wanted to mess around with anymore. My right eye is still blurry and not right. Really hoping it clears up soon. I think/hope it’s just strain. 

 

Oh gosh, that's very unfortunate to hear. Hope you get well soon. Shows, that the VR stuff is really not to be trifled with, especially if something feels off. Hope you'll get along with a headset with a wider sweetspot. 

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On 2/17/2021 at 11:51 PM, SCG_Wulfe said:

Yep could very well be the vertical, which would be a function of the small sweet spot not taking up that slack. But ya ipd is definitely 64mm. That said, I played with all manner of compromises to see if I could get a “best blend” between both eyes. In the end, it was never totally comfortable. Frankly, with the way my eyesight was rapidly deteriorating in real life, not something I wanted to mess around with anymore. My right eye is still blurry and not right. Really hoping it clears up soon. I think/hope it’s just strain. 

When I had the issue with the Pimax it took 2-3 days maximum to be always alright again. 

 

If you feel blurry in one eye go see a competent doctor asap. It may be something else.

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On 2/17/2021 at 11:51 PM, SCG_Wulfe said:

Yep could very well be the vertical, which would be a function of the small sweet spot not taking up that slack. But ya ipd is definitely 64mm. That said, I played with all manner of compromises to see if I could get a “best blend” between both eyes. In the end, it was never totally comfortable. Frankly, with the way my eyesight was rapidly deteriorating in real life, not something I wanted to mess around with anymore. My right eye is still blurry and not right. Really hoping it clears up soon. I think/hope it’s just strain. 

 

I think I might have the same problem, actually. Sometimes, after using the G2, I feel weirdly cross-eyed, and even had loss of clarity in one of my eyes. I've moved back to my PiMax, and so far that particular problem has disappeared.

One thing I noticed is that I was able to use the G2 without glasses (I'm near-sighted), whereas I can't with the PiMax, and couldn't either with the Rift CV1. I still used my glasses with the G2 because it provides a clearer image than without glasses, but I can read small text without. If they designed a headset with a short focus distance, then I think this might be a mistake because even for a near-sighted person, focusing at a short distance all the time for any extended period of time is going to tire the eyes, I would guess.

 

VR headset makers really need to focus on polishing comfort and adaptability. I have yet to use a headset that fit me perfectly.

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2 hours ago, coconut said:

 

I think I might have the same problem, actually. Sometimes, after using the G2, I feel weirdly cross-eyed, and even had loss of clarity in one of my eyes. I've moved back to my PiMax, and so far that particular problem has disappeared.

One thing I noticed is that I was able to use the G2 without glasses (I'm near-sighted), whereas I can't with the PiMax, and couldn't either with the Rift CV1. I still used my glasses with the G2 because it provides a clearer image than without glasses, but I can read small text without. If they designed a headset with a short focus distance, then I think this might be a mistake because even for a near-sighted person, focusing at a short distance all the time for any extended period of time is going to tire the eyes, I would guess.

 

VR headset makers really need to focus on polishing comfort and adaptability. I have yet to use a headset that fit me perfectly.

 

Very odd indeed. Your mention of a short focus distance sounds very much like it could be a cause for what I have experienced. I feel like I have eye strain from prolonged close focus even outside VR at work now (I had no symptoms of this before the G2). I have an appointment at the optometrist tomorrow, we'll see what they say.  That said, the ability to use it without glasses may also simply be down to its higher resolution. 

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13 hours ago, coconut said:

If they designed a headset with a short focus distance

 

Depending of the focus plane distance of every VR headset there is a "comfort zone" range:

 

DK1 : infinity (6-8 m depending on who you ask) : ~1.5 m to infinity
DK2 : ~1.3 m : ~0.75 to ~3 m (0.75 to 3.5 m mentioned in the Oculus Best Practices guide)
Rift : ~2 m : ~0.9 to 10-30 m (not clear with their log scale, but probably doesn't matter past 8 m anyway)

Go/Quest: 2 m

 

The information above is just from googling, not offcial sources. But the focus plane of each headset is something not written in the specs of the headset and it should be something important to consider when acquiring a VR headset. It is almost impossible to know the focal plane of each headset.

 

It seems that the G2 has a shorter focal distance than Index, and this could also affect the size of the sweet spot (edge to edge clarity).

 

I am 51, and have some presbyopia (need glasses of +1 o +1.5 for short distances, computer, reading etc. Quite normal beyond 50´s). Currently I have good vision (had LASIK 20 years ago) for everything at 1 meter and farther.

 

I didn´t try my presbyopia glasses with the G2, but according to the below post, it seems to improve the sweet spot cone. When I used the G2 I saw perfect clarity in the center (I was able to focus well) but then it became increasingly blurry as you move to the edges. This didn´t happen with the Index, so perhaps the focus plane of the Index is longer than the G2. It is a pitty that I can not try now the G2 with presbyopia, but anyone with some presbyopia and the G2 can try.

 

Here some people from MSF2020 and G2:

 

Hi,

I wanted to start this discussion because like many others, I’ve been underwhelmed at first with the G2 “sweet spot” and I believe there are solutions like the one I’m describing below.

TL;DR: The Reverb G2 seems calibrated for a shorter focal distance than other headsets.

I can’t see up close but can see farther away (do you call it nearsighted or farsighted?) and I’m usually wearing reading glasses. Because HMDs are usually calibrated for displaying the image at roughly 2m which I’m conformable with, I don’t wear glasses with the Index and it is really fine. Once I’ve tried the G2 I constantly was feeling something odd with my vision like eye straining quite quickly and as if I had strabismus. Another odd things I’ve noticed is comparing side by side the Index and the G2, the image is appearing smaller to me in the later.

I’ve therefore decided to experiment with something: I’ve purchased low costs +1 reading glasses at the local pharmacy. Results: instant eye strain relief, clear and sharp center with the impression of a wider sharp cone in the center (it is still fuzzy as you go toward the edges but it is not appearing as much as a “clear cut”), and to top it all it is also solving the newly added WMR Anti-CA filter* which was wrongly separating the R,G and B layers too far apart otherwise. White lines are now white from top to bottom

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

That said, the ability to use it without glasses may also simply be down to its higher resolution. 

No, I don't think that's the case. My view without glasses doesn't distinguish easily between a PiMax 5K and 8KX or G2. A higher resolution than my eyes can perceive clearly would be lost on me.

Also the difference in resolution between the G2 and 8Kx isn't huge. The G2 is better, but not by a lot. I could use the G2 without glasses, but not the 8Kx.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, I'm picking up a lightly used index for a good deal. I'm hoping it will be worth the upgrade from my odyssey+... if not, I'll be able to resell it for at least what I paid. 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

Well, I'm picking up a lightly used index for a good deal. I'm hoping it will be worth the upgrade from my odyssey+... if not, I'll be able to resell it for at least what I paid. 

 

Anxious to hear your thoughts on the Index.

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I'm finding my eyes start drying out after 10-15 minutes usage because of the heat coming off my G2.  I hooked it over the back of my chair's headrest and it melted the paint/vinyl enough that the paint/vinyl was smeared onto my right prescription lens cap.  It even removed the black coating from it's lens frame as well.  I find my right eye starts drying out first too, curiously.

 

I use eye drops now to keep them well lubed; my eyes never dried out as quickly in the CV-1.  Possibly the CV-1's nose gap helped with the heat buildup?

 

I should try removing the nose cover...

 

Edited by Drum
umm...
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1 hour ago, Drum said:

I should try removing the nose cover...

 

yup, that's what I did. I also have a fan that blows at my head/face and the cold air enters the lens area through the nose gap keeping it nice and cool on my face.

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3 hours ago, Drum said:

I hooked it over the back of my chair's headrest and it melted the paint/vinyl enough that the paint/vinyl was smeared onto my right prescription lens cap. 

 

That sounds way too hot...mine gets warm but certainly not that hot, and I have never had any problem with my eyes drying out.  I would call HP.

Edited by Varibraun
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1 hour ago, Varibraun said:

 

That sounds way too hot...mine gets warm but certainly not that hot, and I have never had any problem with my eyes drying out.  I would call HP.

 

Yeah something sounds odd there, should not be getting quite that warm I think.

I have no heat problem with my G2. I use it probably 3-5 hours a day with no issue.

 

I think I must have got lucky and got a golden Reverb G2. Never really have any issues with it at all, both hardware and software wise.

Granted working through the initial setup and getting it where I liked it was a pain, but once there it has been smooth sailing for me.

Edited by dburne
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3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

That sounds way too hot...mine gets warm but certainly not that hot, and I have never had any problem with my eyes drying out.  I would call HP.

I would have to agree. I wear the HMD with contact lenses and do not experience added dryness.
 

I do feel the left side of the headset, where cable inserts into is warm when I take it off (usually 1-1.5 hours of use), but nothing like melting vinyl type of warmth. 

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Thanks for the responses.  I'll call HP then because with room temp normal and zero sweating my lens start to fog up after 10-15 mins use.  I removed the nose cover on the new VRcover (I agree it was a nice buy) and that does help if I blow up into the hole...  It's good knowing now that the temp is not normal, I'll call HP in the morning.

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10 hours ago, Drum said:

I'll call HP then because with room temp normal and zero sweating my lens start to fog up after 10-15 mins use.

 

Tell them that while you appreciate the extra realism, you still prefer all fires occur only in the VIRTUAL cockpit...Good Luck!

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On 3/17/2021 at 6:38 PM, dburne said:

 

Anxious to hear your thoughts on the Index.

 

Well, 

 

I've gotta say I am very impressed by the Index. It is actually quite incredible and, for me, absolutely beats the reverb G2.  The first thing I noticed was how clear and sharp everything appeared in it. It's definitely a big step up over my Odyssey+ that I've been using for years even though they have the same rated resolution. Yes there is still a very very small SDE on it, but honestly it was remarkable how the sharpness and clarity still reminded me of the sharpness I experienced in the Reverb G2. Clearly it doesn't have the resolution or absolute sharpness of the G2 in the sweet spot, but the perceived difference is actually quite close. That said, the big difference here, is that the sharpness covers almost the whole visible area and you can look around with your eyes without moving your head and still read and see clearly. I would define this as a vastly larger sweet spot. The second thing is that the FOV is very similar to, and slightly larger than my Odyssey+. When you combine this with the big sweet spot, you find that you can really look into your peripheral and get useful information. Checking my six has never been so easy. In the past, during a furball I had to over-rotate much more to get to a part of the lenses that you could actually ID aircraft with, not so with the Index. With the narrower FOV of the G2 and the tiny sweet spot, It feels like looking through a small tube in comparison with only a small part of the viewing area actually providing clear and complete information. The colors are far more realistic and rich for me than on the G2 as well. The low persistence also adds to a sense of reality in the headset. It just feels much more like you are looking at the real world and objects in motion are much more clear without the motion blur. This is a big plus in a combat flight sim. 

 

There was only one downside I could see and that was the glare that was noticeable in very specific circumstances. The lenses on the Index do not handle darker environments with a contrasting bright light source very well. In those environments there was some significant glare around the edges of the lens. However, for the purposes of IL2, unless you are doing tons of dusk missions or something, I don't see it being an issue you will run into very often. Maybe if you are into FPS games with dark environments, this would be enough to sway your decision. For me, I only really use VR for IL2, and I found that in almost every other area, this headset was a perfect blend of the features and abilities I want in a VR headset.

 

Big thumbs up from me. 

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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35 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Well, 

 

I've gotta say I am very impressed by the Index. It is actually quite incredible and, for me, absolutely beats the reverb G2.  The first thing I noticed was how clear and sharp everything appeared in it. It's definitely a big step up over my Odyssey+ that I've been using for years even though they have the same rated resolution. Yes there is still a very very small SDE on it, but honestly it was remarkable how the sharpness and clarity still reminded me of the sharpness I experienced in the Reverb G2. Clearly it doesn't have the resolution or absolute sharpness of the G2 in the sweet spot, but the perceived difference is actually quite close. That said, the big difference here, is that the sharpness covers almost the whole visible area and you can look around with your eyes without moving your head and still read and see clearly. I would define this as a vastly larger sweet spot. The second thing is that the FOV is very similar to, and slightly larger than my Odyssey+. When you combine this with the big sweet spot, you find that you can really look into your peripheral and get useful information. Checking my six has never been so easy. In the past, during a furball I had to over-rotate much more to get to a part of the lenses that you could actually ID aircraft with, not so with the Index. With the narrower FOV of the G2 and the tiny sweet spot, It feels like looking through a small tube in comparison with only a small part of the viewing area actually providing clear and complete information. The colors are far more realistic and rich for me than on the G2 as well. The low persistence also adds to a sense of reality in the headset. It just feels much more like you are looking at the real world and objects in motion are much more clear without the motion blur. This is a big plus in a combat flight sim. 

 

There was only one downside I could see and that was the glare that was noticeable in very specific circumstances. The lenses on the Index do not handle darker environments with a contrasting bright light source very well. In those environments there was some significant glare around the edges of the lens. However, for the purposes of IL2, unless you are doing tons of dusk missions or something, I don't see it being an issue you will run into very often. Maybe if you are into FPS games with dark environments, this would be enough to sway your decision. For me, I only really use VR for IL2, and I found that in almost every other area, this headset was a perfect blend of the features and abilities I want in a VR headset.

 

Big thumbs up from me. 

 

Nice thanks for the feedback!

If not for the high cost of entry I would probably already have an Index.

I am hoping they come out with an updated version soon maybe with the more simplistic inside/out tracking like the G2 has.

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13 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Nice thanks for the feedback!

If not for the high cost of entry I would probably already have an Index.

I am hoping they come out with an updated version soon maybe with the more simplistic inside/out tracking like the G2 has.

 

Ya an updated version would be nice. But honestly, the tracking is so much more reliable and accurate with the lighthouses, that I don't think I'd prefer to go back to inside-out. Ideally they release a headset that can work both ways. 

 

The index really reminds me of the almost uncompromised design/philosophy of the original Rift CV1. It's made advances in every area since then, but everything just works really well and there's nothing that really frustrates like I find with other headsets. The almost lens-wide sweet-spot is just superb.

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3 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

That said, the big difference here, is that the sharpness covers almost the whole visible area and you can look around with your eyes without moving your head and still read and see clearly. I would define this as a vastly larger sweet spot.

 

Congrats. I am happy to see that others share my views as well. Enjoy it!

 

 

3 hours ago, dburne said:

If not for the high cost of entry

 

The headset without controllers and basestations is 500$.

For IL-2 (or seated games) one basestation is really enough. (I only have one, it is v1)

 

You can pick a v1 basestation in ebay for 100$.

 

If you then play games that need controllers you can use the G2, or even a Quest if you sell your soul to the evil...  😉

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30 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Congrats. I am happy to see that others share my views as well. Enjoy it!

 

 

 

The headset without controllers and basestations is 500$.

For IL-2 (or seated games) one basestation is really enough. (I only have one, it is v1)

 

You can pick a v1 basestation in ebay for 100$.

 

If you then play games that need controllers you can use the G2, or even a Quest if you sell your soul to the evil...  😉

 

No I would want the controllers and base stations for sure also. I would be about the whole shebang or nothing.

I realize then I could sell either one and keep the other, and probably get a fair price for the one I sell.

Just not sure I want to go there yet - but certainly considering it.

 

I love the image clarity in my Reverb G2 especially at 100% Steam VR resolution, but I am sure I would also love the better FOV and larger sweet spot of the Index.

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In whatever game I play (IL-2 and lately Star Wars Squadrons), I can never feed the Reverb G2 with these 100% SteamVR resolution. It's just not realistic, no matter which way I turn the coin. And I'm using an RTX 3090. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

In whatever game I play (IL-2 and lately Star Wars Squadrons), I can never feed the Reverb G2 with these 100% SteamVR resolution. It's just not realistic, no matter which way I turn the coin. And I'm using an RTX 3090. 

 

 

 

Another big plus of the Index is the ability, in the new Steam VR beta version, to run fractional reprojection. So you can say run 90hz on headset with 3/4 framerate lock in game(67FPS). This means there is much less reprojection going on than from 45-90, meaning less artifacts. There's of course other options as well 120hz/60fps, 144hz/72fps, 144hz/36fps, etc. 

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5 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Well, 

 

I've gotta say I am very impressed by the Index. It is actually quite incredible and, for me, absolutely beats the reverb G2.  The first thing I noticed was how clear and sharp everything appeared in it. It's definitely a big step up over my Odyssey+ that I've been using for years even though they have the same rated resolution. Yes there is still a very very small SDE on it, but honestly it was remarkable how the sharpness and clarity still reminded me of the sharpness I experienced in the Reverb G2. Clearly it doesn't have the resolution or absolute sharpness of the G2 in the sweet spot, but the perceived difference is actually quite close. That said, the big difference here, is that the sharpness covers almost the whole visible area and you can look around with your eyes without moving your head and still read and see clearly. I would define this as a vastly larger sweet spot. The second thing is that the FOV is very similar to, and slightly larger than my Odyssey+. When you combine this with the big sweet spot, you find that you can really look into your peripheral and get useful information. Checking my six has never been so easy. In the past, during a furball I had to over-rotate much more to get to a part of the lenses that you could actually ID aircraft with, not so with the Index. With the narrower FOV of the G2 and the tiny sweet spot, It feels like looking through a small tube in comparison with only a small part of the viewing area actually providing clear and complete information. The colors are far more realistic and rich for me than on the G2 as well. The low persistence also adds to a sense of reality in the headset. It just feels much more like you are looking at the real world and objects in motion are much more clear without the motion blur. This is a big plus in a combat flight sim. 

 

There was only one downside I could see and that was the glare that was noticeable in very specific circumstances. The lenses on the Index do not handle darker environments with a contrasting bright light source very well. In those environments there was some significant glare around the edges of the lens. However, for the purposes of IL2, unless you are doing tons of dusk missions or something, I don't see it being an issue you will run into very often. Maybe if you are into FPS games with dark environments, this would be enough to sway your decision. For me, I only really use VR for IL2, and I found that in almost every other area, this headset was a perfect blend of the features and abilities I want in a VR headset.

 

Big thumbs up from me. 

 

First, I confess that I haven't even taken my Reverb G2 out of the box. Our house still has an internet connection from the Stone Age (Anyone remember 56k modems? It's like that) so I haven't tried my new gaming rig with my Reverb G2 as I cannot download IL-2 and Steam VR.

 

I have read through every post in this thread once again and what people say about the Valve Index has been making me regret buying the G2. As long as the Screen Door Effect of the Index is better than my Rift CV1, that's the most important thing for me. Also I now have concerns about the sweet spot of the G2 causing eye strain for some.

 

I think I will be happier with the increased FOV and edge-to-edge clarity of the Index over the Reverb G2. Also, I think I will be able to run higher IL-2 graphics settings with the Index than with the Reverb G2.

 

Lucky for me, I have enough spare cash to afford to buy the Valve Index as well. Probably on Ebay. If I try the Index and am happy with it then I will sell the G2 as new, in an unopened box.

 

I thank you all for what has been a most informative thread.

Cheers!

Algy-Lacey

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36 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

First, I confess that I haven't even taken my Reverb G2 out of the box. Our house still has an internet connection from the Stone Age (Anyone remember 56k modems? It's like that) so I haven't tried my new gaming rig with my Reverb G2 as I cannot download IL-2 and Steam VR.

 

I have read through every post in this thread once again and what people say about the Valve Index has been making me regret buying the G2. As long as the Screen Door Effect of the Index is better than my Rift CV1, that's the most important thing for me. Also I now have concerns about the sweet spot of the G2 causing eye strain for some.

 

I think I will be happier with the increased FOV and edge-to-edge clarity of the Index over the Reverb G2. Also, I think I will be able to run higher IL-2 graphics settings with the Index than with the Reverb G2.

 

Lucky for me, I have enough spare cash to afford to buy the Valve Index as well. Probably on Ebay. If I try the Index and am happy with it then I will sell the G2 as new, in an unopened box.

 

I thank you all for what has been a most informative thread.

Cheers!

Algy-Lacey

 

I think your making the right call to at least try the Index if that's an option for you. The listed specs definitely do not tell the whole tale in regards to these headsets. 

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41 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

First, I confess that I haven't even taken my Reverb G2 out of the box. Our house still has an internet connection from the Stone Age (Anyone remember 56k modems? It's like that) so I haven't tried my new gaming rig with my Reverb G2 as I cannot download IL-2 and Steam VR.

 

I have read through every post in this thread once again and what people say about the Valve Index has been making me regret buying the G2. As long as the Screen Door Effect of the Index is better than my Rift CV1, that's the most important thing for me. Also I now have concerns about the sweet spot of the G2 causing eye strain for some.

 

I think I will be happier with the increased FOV and edge-to-edge clarity of the Index over the Reverb G2. Also, I think I will be able to run higher IL-2 graphics settings with the Index than with the Reverb G2.

 

Lucky for me, I have enough spare cash to afford to buy the Valve Index as well. Probably on Ebay. If I try the Index and am happy with it then I will sell the G2 as new, in an unopened box.

 

I thank you all for what has been a most informative thread.

Cheers!

Algy-Lacey

Don't worry, I think it's still better than the Index for flight simulators - if it fits your head and you fiddle with the eye relief by printing your own gasket. I completed the one by jewcookie, and it's great for me.

 

But not for others. Wulfe couldn't get the thing to get into his focal optimum and is better off with the Index. But that's the G2's fault for lack of ergonomic customisation, it really lacks there. The Index does have the advantage there, and advantages for games I play too - like Shooters and Star Wars Squadrons. And these are "temporal resolution" most specifically, which is 120 Hz and 144 Hz, as well as our of the box setup and adaptability to the users' faces. 

 

If the G2 work for you out of the box properly, you're not running into a disadvantage at all. Especially in IL-2. You also paid just half (550 Vs 1100€ for example). So there's no need to feel buyer's remorse.

 

Wulfe also likes racing games which are really great with high temporal resolution. There's different headsets and advantages and disadvantages for various use-cases.

 

 

So, I'd recommend you try the G2 and test it first. If it doesn't work for you, then look at the Index. It really is a hit or miss case.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If the G2 work for you out of the box properly, you're not running into a disadvantage at all. Especially in IL-2. You also paid just half (550 Vs 1100€ for example). So there's no need to feel buyer's remorse.

 

That phrase sums it up perfectly, buyer's remorse!

I think I will try the Reverb at least before choosing.

 

I paid £540 for the Reverb G2 and I can get an Index for £700 including a base station, second hand. The Valve store has them for £460 plus £140 for a base station, new. But there is no stock at the moment. (As far as I can tell from their confusing conflicting info. It says "Now available for purchase" and then the option to "learn more" but no way to buy. It also says "out of stock" in a box, but box is not highlighted?!) https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex

 

If an extra £160 buys me a better FOV and clarity, as well as less graphical horsepower needed (due to rendering 4.6 million pixels for the Index before SS instead of 9.3 million pixels for the Reverb @ 52% SS)... I would consider that money well spent.

 

I will try to get my hands on an Index and do a side by side comparison with the Reverb G2.

 

Lucky me!

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6 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

That phrase sums it up perfectly, buyer's remorse!

I think I will try the Reverb at least before choosing.

 

I paid £540 for the Reverb G2 and I can get an Index for £700 including a base station, second hand. The Valve store has them for £460 plus £140 for a base station, new. But there is no stock at the moment. (As far as I can tell from their confusing conflicting info. It says "Now available for purchase" and then the option to "learn more" but no way to buy. It also says "out of stock" in a box, but box is not highlighted?!) https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex

 

If an extra £160 buys me a better FOV and clarity, as well as less graphical horsepower needed (due to rendering 4.6 million pixels for the Index before SS instead of 9.3 million pixels for the Reverb @ 52% SS)... I would consider that money well spent.

 

I will try to get my hands on an Index and do a side by side comparison with the Reverb G2.

 

Lucky me!

 

👍

Good now I can wait and hear your thoughts.

 

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I have a 5900x/3080 setup.  Does anyone else have similar?  If so...what is your current settings both on the Quest 2 link settings and in game graphics?

 

I bumped it up to 1.3 Resolution on the Link settings at 90FPS yesterday in Half Life Alyx and it was butter smooth and incredibly crisp.  Gonna start tweaking settings today for IL2 and was gonna see about grabbing some suggestions.

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11 minutes ago, AuburnAlumni said:

 

 

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I have a 5900x/3080 setup.  Does anyone else have similar?  If so...what is your current settings both on the Quest 2 link settings and in game graphics?

 

I bumped it up to 1.3 Resolution on the Link settings at 90FPS yesterday in Half Life Alyx and it was butter smooth and incredibly crisp.  Gonna start tweaking settings today for IL2 and was gonna see about grabbing some suggestions.

 

Alyx is such an awesome game!

 

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On 3/19/2021 at 9:40 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

I will try to get my hands on an Index and do a side by side comparison with the Reverb G2.

 

Yeah, This is always my approach when a new headset appears. Each use case and individual is different.

Either through RMA (30 days) or selling it in ebay you can always recover most of the money.

If you can afford it, it is always the best approach.

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