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From the FCII announcement, referring to the development of the Western Front map:

 

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Also, once the larger map is completed, we plan to offer it to FC1 users. 

 

I find that wording ambiguous, so could someone from the company clarify exactly what it means?

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39 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

From the FCII announcement, referring to the development of the Western Front map:

 

Quote

Also, once the larger map is completed, we plan to offer it to FC1 users. 

 

I find that wording ambiguous, so could someone from the company clarify exactly what it means?

 

Hmmm. Nice work Al. Always the hard questions, damn it man! 

 

Perhaps they plan to sell it as DLC for those who don't wish to upgrade to FCII and the new DM? I wonder if it comes with soggy ground? 

 

 

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Easy mate...The use of capitals does not make your message look more impressive, at all...

On 12/15/2020 at 6:35 PM, GISTAND1949 said:

WHERE IS FLYING CIRCUS  VOLUME II IN THE GAME...I JUST PURCHISED IT BUT IT IS NOT IN THE GAME WHEN I LUNCH IL-2 STRUMOVIK GREAT BATTLES?

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

All this time and I never noticed the absence of bodies of water.  How strange.

 

And I thought you were going to bring up the Lac du Der (artifically created in 1974, lovingly recreated for RoF in 1917).

 

Honestly I'd settle for Inspiration Island and epic seaplane fights over Jasonville and Petrovich Bay. Either way, bring on the Hanriot!

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4 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

 

And I thought you were going to bring up the Lac du Der (artifically created in 1974, lovingly recreated for RoF in 1917).

 

 

I couldn't mention that lake as it isn't on the main map, although several post-WW2 lakes are shown. 

 

I still don't see the connection between seaplanes and large bodies of water.  Where possible, I have always preferred placing them in more challenging locations.

 

felix_river.jpg.3c9613f1c8db21d66eab049fc116ce59.jpg

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1 hour ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

I couldn't mention that lake as it isn't on the main map, although several post-WW2 lakes are shown. 

 

I still don't see the connection between seaplanes and large bodies of water.  Where possible, I have always preferred placing them in more challenging locations.

 

felix_river.jpg.3c9613f1c8db21d66eab049fc116ce59.jpg

There's a private seaplane "lake" in my area. I've landed on the turf but haven't used the water landing since I don't have a seaplane rating. The "lake" is pretty narrow and looks kinda dicey to me.

 

http://frazierlake.com/

FLA-2018-homepage-1.jpg

FLA_Testaguza_4044-SeaRey-42-Tango-gets-out-of-the-water-quickly.jpg

Edited by JG1_Vonrd
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21 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

bring on the Hanriot!

 

Sweet Gordon Bennett ! Haven't we got enough duds on the Entente side! :biggrin:

 

I want the Pup! With the Bentley BR2 230 hp, twin Vickers and structurally re-engineered. As a feature mod. Or maybe just the Snipe then.  

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15 hours ago, JG1_Vonrd said:

There's a private seaplane "lake" in my area. I've landed on the turf but haven't used the water landing since I don't have a seaplane rating. The "lake" is pretty narrow and looks kinda dicey to me.

 

http://frazierlake.com/

 

According to the website its 18 metres wide, so in an emergency I reckon you could land a Sunderland there, if you didn't mind breaking the wing floats and probably scraping the hull on the bottom.

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11 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

Sweet Gordon Bennett ! Haven't we got enough duds on the Entente side! :biggrin:

 

How dare you call the Hanriot a dud?! That marvel of French aeronautical engineering! How could the developers ever do such a thing dirty?

 

On top of that, think of its interesting and rather unique backstory of being an evolution of the earlier Nieuport design meant to compete with and surpass the SPAD VII, yet in spite of entering limited production getting rejected for service by the French in favour of the already widely adopted SPAD XIII, then getting sold off to a co-belligerent nation, where it finally manages to make a name for itself amongst pilots in desperate need of, well, anything while awaiting the delivery of better performing machines (i.e. the SPAD XIII).

 

 

 

 

wait stop

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13 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

According to the website its 18 metres wide, so in an emergency I reckon you could land a Sunderland there, if you didn't mind breaking the wing floats and probably scraping the hull on the bottom.

 

Lol. Classic Al. :rofl:

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3 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

How dare you call the Hanriot a dud?! That marvel of French aeronautical engineering! 

 

Yeah I'm sorry bender. A momentary lapse of reason. I'd welcome her onboard if the D7 was removed from the plane set. But then 80% of online players would disappear. It's a paradoxical conundrum.

 

3 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

How could the developers ever do such a thing dirty?

 

I don't know the answer to that. But hopefully they'll do things dirty and get FC2 RELEASED BEFORE I DIE !!

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What made the Hanriot a dud in RoF was it's poor visibility on a 2D screen, and it's weak tail.  Might be a lot different if you are in VR and with some structural revisions.  Still, for those who were looking to prove something, I remember a particular group embracing it, and they used it to very good effect against the 1917 plane set.  Was that map called "Autumn Reims" on the old Wargrounds?

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8 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

Yeah I'm sorry bender. A momentary lapse of reason. I'd welcome her onboard if the D7 was removed from the plane set. But then 80% of online players would disappear. It's a paradoxical conundrum.

 

It's an excellent match for the Fokker D.VII! The Hanriot has (slightly) better turn and better climb, and the Fokker D.VII is (slightly) faster, has two machineguns and is built like a truck. It would likely still stand a chance against the 200hp Fokker D.VII with overcompression, though that might be pushing it a bit.

 

 

...wait you meant a match for the Fokker D.VIIF?

 

Let's put it this way: even if all signs currently point to it making the planeset eventually, I wouldn't trust the Sopwith Snipe to be a 1:1 match for the D.VIIF either. What it will likely do is drive them further up, because while the Camel already ceases to be any good from around 2000m, the Snipe will likely hold its own all the way up to 4000m, not to mention a stronger build. That said: the F can and will go up to 8000m (technically 9000m). But that's kind of the point of that plane. It would be like saying that the P-51D sucks just because the Me262 exists. I have no idea what I just said there, I don't know anything about non-Pacific WWII.

 

The fact that people want to fly the best plane is understandable, especially since there's no real alternative to the F on Central, and this won't drastically change with FC2 (if the FMs are the same as RoF). That is, unless we get a few collector planes thrown in. I still want my bloody Hanriot as a one-shot Belgian special.

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Hanriot as implemented in RoF was one of best Entente counters for 2014! Albatros D.Va (which says a lot of 2014! Camel and Tripe, but also a lot of Hanriot). In icons-on enviroment (where visibility was less of a problem) she could go toe-to-to with 2014! Albies. In current FC, all she'll have to worry about is D.VIIFs up high and Dr.Is down low; she'll be comparable to Camel and Dolphin, trading visibility and firepower for ease of flying, lack of vicious speed and if we're lucky more forgiving G-behaviour.

(Also, there's about 6 flyable D.VIIFs at any time on Flugpark, so using them as measuring stick is a big jump to conclusions). 

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8 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Hanriot as implemented in RoF was one of best Entente counters for 2014! Albatros D.Va (which says a lot of 2014! Camel and Tripe, but also a lot of Hanriot). In icons-on enviroment (where visibility was less of a problem) she could go toe-to-to with 2014! Albies. In current FC, all she'll have to worry about is D.VIIFs up high and Dr.Is down low; she'll be comparable to Camel and Dolphin, trading visibility and firepower for ease of flying, lack of vicious speed and if we're lucky more forgiving G-behaviour.

(Also, there's about 6 flyable D.VIIFs at any time on Flugpark, so using them as measuring stick is a big jump to conclusions). 

 

Some might value that it optionally carries a tiltable Lewis gun. 😉

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On 2/19/2021 at 1:31 AM, =IRFC=Hbender said:

That said: the F can and will go up to 8000m (technically 9000m)

Well if they're up that high then we need not worry about them coming down low to the rest of us, And if they do then the snipe will take care of them. 

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13 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:
On 2/19/2021 at 9:05 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

she'll be comparable to Camel and Dolphin, trading visibility and firepower for ease of flying

I think I had a stroke while reading this 

 

Rest easy. The Hanriot to which he refers must be the invisible version surely .... otherwise I just can't see it. Sorry.

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6 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

I think I had a stroke while reading this 

Camel and Dolphin are two planes that can turn with German scouts and out-spiral-climb them, quality ROF! Hanriot also has.They are also two tracherous planes that will try to backstab the pilot, fail to roll or go into spin at drop the hat, quality the ROF! Hanriot lacks.

 

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On 2/19/2021 at 11:05 AM, J2_Trupobaw said:

she'll be comparable to Camel and Dolphin, trading visibility and firepower for ease of flying,

 

Just don't let the engine come to a complete stop:

 

hanriot_dumbdown.thumb.jpg.b9b610acb374f66481d74000b6b73267.jpg

 

It's been 5 years since I had to make this to accompany the bug report.

 

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21 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Just don't let the engine come to a complete stop:

 

hanriot_dumbdown.thumb.jpg.b9b610acb374f66481d74000b6b73267.jpg

 

It's been 5 years since I had to make this to accompany the bug report.

 

 

Have you checked the crankshaft for waffle jams?

 

22 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Camel and Dolphin are two planes that can turn with German scouts and out-spiral-climb them, quality ROF! Hanriot also has.They are also two tracherous planes that will try to backstab the pilot, fail to roll or go into spin at drop the hat, quality the ROF! Hanriot lacks.

 

In many ways the Hanriot is the plane which many people were expecting the Nieuport 28 to behave like, albeit slower and worse climbing. Basically an improved Nieuport 17. A Nieuport 27, if you will.

 

Oh, oh can we talk about the Nieuport 28 now? The way I see it: either it's exactly the plane it was in RoF and it will be hilarious, or (however unlikely) its FM will be "fixed", be able to hold a sustained turn more or less equal to the Hanriot and pretty much become the best overall plane on Entente, somewhere in between a Camel and a SPAD XIII. In other words: equally hilarious.

 

Edited by =IRFC=Hbender
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1 hour ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

Oh, oh can we talk about the Nieuport 28 now? The way I see it: either it's exactly the plane it was in RoF and it will be hilarious, or (however unlikely) its FM will be "fixed", be able to hold a sustained turn more or less equal to the Hanriot and pretty much become the best overall plane on Entente, somewhere in between a Camel and a SPAD XIII. In other words: equally hilarious.

 


As an N.28 lover, I’d be thrilled to see it get an accurate FM this time around. I’d also like for it to display fabric ripping off the wings in prolonged dives and high G maneuvers.
 

I’m currently reading “Fighting the Flying Circus” by Eddie Rickenbacker, and he repeatedly mentions two things: (1) How it can outmaneuver many of the German scouts (2) How often pilots would lose the fabric on their wings due to too many Gs. This last thing was such a problem that he gladly took the SPAD when it came out.

 

If the devs model it correctly, it will become an amazing plane to fly and my heart would probably feel like Bender’s would/will when the Hanriot finally arrives. 🤩😁

 

Other than firsthand accounts like Rickenbacker’s, where would the devs get hard data from though?

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It was going to fast that was the problem, not too many g's. They, the 94th Aero, were diving them much too fast and that's when these failures occurred. The 27th Aero loved them and hated the swap to SPADs. The guys in the 27th knew how to fly the 28 and had spent a lot of time on them. Not one of their 28's ever lost the upper wing fabric. Maj. Hartney (C.O. 27th Aero) detailed all  this in his post war "lessons learned" report. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

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5 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

It was going to fast that was the problem, not too many g's. They, the 94th Aero, were diving them much too fast and that's when these failures occurred. The 27th Aero loved them and hated the swap to SPADs. The guys in the 27th knew how to fly the 28 and had spent a lot of time on them. Not one of their 28's ever lost the upper wing fabric. Maj. Hartney (C.O. 27th Aero) detailed all  this in his post war "lessons learned" report. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

I seem to recall something similar while reading Hartney’s memoirs “Up and At ‘Em.” I’d love to see this report if you can find it! 😃 The way Rickenbacker writes, he seems distinctly nervous at the idea of pulling hard maneuvers of any sort in the N.28.

Edited by JG1_Hotlead_J10
grammar correction 😋
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1 hour ago, JG1_Hotlead_J10 said:


As an N.28 lover, I’d be thrilled to see it get an accurate FM this time around. I’d also like for it to display fabric ripping off the wings in prolonged dives and high G maneuvers.
 

I’m currently reading “Fighting the Flying Circus” by Eddie Rickenbacker, and he repeatedly mentions two things: (1) How it can outmaneuver many of the German scouts (2) How often pilots would lose the fabric on their wings due to too many Gs. This last thing was such a problem that he gladly took the SPAD when it came out.

 

I'm not sure how they would be able to model that as fabric tearing and soft-body physics are not part of the DM. 🤔

 

I suppose they could just make the wings very weak, akin to the Dolphin and Albatros D.Va. Still, that will likely be a function of the main wing spar, if they apply the same logic as the other planes.

 

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If the devs model it correctly, it will become an amazing plane to fly and my heart would probably feel like Bender’s would/will when the Hanriot finally arrives. 🤩😁

 

Are you kidding me? If we get an accurate N28 I'll be flying that, not some half-baked waffle-operated deathtrap.

 

 

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Other than firsthand accounts like Rickenbacker’s, where would the devs get hard data from though?

 

There is a ton of conflicting data floating around about the Nieuport 28, ranging from its surface area only being 16m2 to 19m2, and its max takeoff weight ranging from 700 to 740kg (reproductions actually only weigh around 550kg fully fueled, but that's without machineguns obviously).

 

The RoF Nieuport 28 likely assumes 700kg and 19m2 (according to the RoF store page), which would give it a relatively low wing loading of ~37kg/m2. Compare this to the Sopwith Camel: 659kg / 21.5m2 = ~31kg/m2, and to the Albatros D.Va: 915kg / 21.2m2 = ~43kg/m2. So it should fall somewhere in between in terms of sustained turn performance. But that's clearly not the case in RoF, in fact it has a worse sustained turn than the SPAD XIII (820kg / 20.2m2 = 41kg/m2), and the SPAD itself has a worse sustained turn than the Albatros in spite of a lower wing loading, so there are other forces at play.

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4 hours ago, JG1_Hotlead_J10 said:

As an N.28 lover, I’d be thrilled to see it get an accurate FM this time around. I’d also like for it to display fabric ripping off the wings in prolonged dives and high G maneuvers.

I would like to see this also ,maybe in next gen engine :=)

 

Javier Arango died crashing N 28 before that he coldeted Camel telemetry,  one  game studio that claims is in pursuit on historical FM accuracy was ever interested? Maybe Chill Dr.1 telemetry can make difference?

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57 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Bear in mind that "Rickenbackers" book is ghost written and full of tall tales, not a first hand account. 

 

Correct. I believe that latest edition has an additional chapter on turning written by Plank.

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On 2/25/2021 at 6:26 AM, =IRFC=Hbender said:

 

Have you checked the crankshaft for waffle jams?

 

 

In many ways the Hanriot is the plane which many people were expecting the Nieuport 28 to behave like, albeit slower and worse climbing. Basically an improved Nieuport 17. A Nieuport 27, if you will.

 

Oh, oh can we talk about the Nieuport 28 now? The way I see it: either it's exactly the plane it was in RoF and it will be hilarious, or (however unlikely) its FM will be "fixed", be able to hold a sustained turn more or less equal to the Hanriot and pretty much become the best overall plane on Entente, somewhere in between a Camel and a SPAD XIII. In other words: equally hilarious.

 

People will complain about its 3.7 G limit though...(I don't really know at what G limit the front ribs should be ripping off the plane, but it should relatively low compared to other planes.)

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2 hours ago, Chill31 said:

People will complain about its 3.7 G limit though...(I don't really know at what G limit the front ribs should be ripping off the plane, but it should relatively low compared to other planes.)

 

Oof, that is little indeed.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with that, personally, then again I'm a masochist who flies the Dolphin. Purely from a design point of view it makes more sense for it to handle and behave much like a light, flimsy, (relatively) unstable rotary, much closer to a Nieuport 17 and Sopwith Pup in terms of overall build, rather than an F-104 Starfighter. The fact that it can't hold a sustained turn, but has a great instantaneous turn and excellent roll makes me suspect there is something fundamentally wrong with the wing loading. Maybe they've used the 16m2 and 740kg figures? That would give it a relatively high wing loading of ~46kg/m2.

 

Ironically enough, if it has low G limits, good instantaneous turn and roll are probably the worst the features to have in terms of stressing the wing.

 

 

If the FMs are ported over as is (they likely will), and you're looking for a solid, fast French machine that is relatively unstable and has a good sustained turn, look no further than the Breguet 14. Yes, the same Breguet that became a mail carrier after the war with the Aéropostale.

 

Y1zma18.jpg

Edited by =IRFC=Hbender
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4 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

If the FMs are ported over as is (they likely will), and you're looking for a solid, fast French machine that is relatively unstable and has a good sustained turn, look no further than the Breguet 14. Yes, the same Breguet that became a mail carrier after the war with the Aéropostale.

Having fun with FM artifacts, have we? The FC Camel is only a shade of the clown waggon it was „pre patch“ in RoF, despite having the good engine as well. I seriously doubt that „just porting over“ would result in the Breguet being being one of the best turn fighters, as it is in RoF. (Grotesquely so.)

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I'm curious about which variant of D.XII we'll be getting...I'd imagine we'll be getting the "D.XII F" of RoF, but I heard that RoF originally had a D.XII powered by a Mercedes D.IIIa, so I guess it's a slim possibility they'll do that instead? 

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4 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

I'm curious about which variant of D.XII we'll be getting...I'd imagine we'll be getting the "D.XII F" of RoF, but I heard that RoF originally had a D.XII powered by a Mercedes D.IIIa, so I guess it's a slim possibility they'll do that instead? 

 

The original RoF D.XII (that never left beta alpha) had the Mercedes D.IIIa, but they found it performed worse in every respect compared to the Pfalz D.IIIa, so they gave it the BMW IIIa instead. In other words, we'll get the "Little f".

 

I'm hoping we'll get a D.IIIa(ü) 200hp (180PS) engine variant down the line, this would have been the operational variant.

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41 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

The original RoF D.XII (that never left beta alpha) had the Mercedes D.IIIa, but they found it performed worse in every respect compared to the Pfalz D.IIIa,

 

A state of affairs for which there can be only one inescapable explanation.

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11 hours ago, =IRFC=Hbender said:

I'm hoping we'll get a D.IIIa(ü) 200hp (180PS) engine variant down the line, this would have been the operational variant.


Yeah, from the historical standpoint I'd be far more pleased to see a D.IIIau Pfalz than a D.XII F....the D.VII F making its way into RoF / FC makes sense (less so than the IIIau would have), but as far as I know the D.XII F was virtually nonexistent on the frontlines...






 

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