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Reverb G2 Mod to increase FOV


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Well after several more hours I have removed the faceplate mod and gone back with my original G2 faceplate.

Just was not all that comfortable, I could see lens borders especially around the bottom area, and if I adjusted headset up or down just a little the image 

would stretch and shrink in the vertical direction.

 

So I guess the headset was not really designed for my eyes to be that close to the lens. At least for me anyway.

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12 hours ago, dburne said:

Just was not all that comfortable, I could see lens borders especially around the bottom area

 

You are not the only one suffering from this. I think the VR Cover mod put your face too close to the lenses. Other people said that it was also difficult to find the right position for clear vision. But all depend on face shape.

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On 1/2/2021 at 5:24 PM, dburne said:

OK finally got my VR Cover and picked up some Velcro and applied this VR Cover mod to my Reverb G2.

Very easy and quick to do no problem there at all. 

 

I am quite pleased. First let me say I am not the best judge of FOV as I am half blind and see nothing right of center when looking ahead.

But I can tell it has increased slightly. I can see this mainly in my left periphery.

Appears another benefit from getting the eyes closer to the lens is increased clarity of the image. That is what I am impressed with.

It is quite comfortable, however I suspect long gaming sessions especially at warmer times of the year might get a little sweaty with the PU Leather or whatever it is made of. 

I used it about an hour for my first session. Also nice that you get two of these with the VR Cover Kit, so at least I have a spare if the first one starts to get cruddy over time.

Also nice to now have a little peep hole around the bottom center to look at my keyboard if needed.

 

So yes I am glad I did this mod. Will see how it does in longer sessions and also when the climate gets warmer. Thankfully I have air conditioning constantly blowing on me so that helps. I don't see me going back to the original faceplate, but I made sure to put the Velcro where it would not interfere should I decide to put the original back on at some point.

So as far as I am concerned , I give this mod a big:
:good:

 

Edit: Oh and I will also mention, I don't see a really small sweet-spot in my Reverb G2 at al, even with the original faceplate.  It seems pretty good to me, but again this is only judging by what I see in periphery to my left.

 

Now, back to flying baby!

:fly:

 

G2 arrived this morning and sweet spot is nice, image quality is wow (besode some vertical lines if you focus on it in certain situatiins).

My friend will send me gasket mod today.

I'm still fiddling with settings as i have bad stutters, need to find that smoothing option

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1 hour ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

G2 arrived this morning and sweet spot is nice, image quality is wow (besode some vertical lines if you focus on it in certain situatiins).

My friend will send me gasket mod today.

I'm still fiddling with settings as i have bad stutters, need to find that smoothing option

 

You won't see the IL-2 game as an option (unless you maybe have the Steam version) unless the game is running.

You can also add the game as a third party to the Steam and Steam VR libraries so it will show.

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4 hours ago, dburne said:

 

You won't see the IL-2 game as an option (unless you maybe have the Steam version) unless the game is running.

You can also add the game as a third party to the Steam and Steam VR libraries so it will show.

Found it!

Yes i have BoS on steam.

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13 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

You are not the only one suffering from this. I think the VR Cover mod put your face too close to the lenses. Other people said that it was also difficult to find the right position for clear vision. But all depend on face shape.

 

I think we need to make a startup business offering custom 3D printed face gaskets for the VR headsets. Send people a grid of white dots to put over their face then tell them to record a video looking left-to-right, then use Ai magic to post-process a 3D mesh of their face, locate their eyeballs, generate an optimal face-to-HMD interface, then 3D print it.

 

I'd probably pay $200 for a custom facial interface if it improved clarity and comfort. Viable business idea?

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I think there's something else wrong with the G2. I removed the gasket as well and went seamless from far to close. I could increase FOV considerably, yes, but then promised edge to edge clarity just isn't there. What is it, material of the lenses they used for mass production? Temperature Delta too sharp in time? Tolerances too high? Why are the lenses worse than expected - they are more similar to G1 lenses than to Index lenses.

 

The (lucky unit) Pimax 5K+ I had had better clarity. The Index had better edge-to-edge clarity (but godawful godrays). The best out of the bunch was the Cosmos Elite with LensMod. To this day.. which I hardly believe I am spelling out, but currently it's true.

 

The Mrtv guy is checking on the clarity issues, pooling G2 headsets now in Germany to compare to his prototype unit. If he finds something, he truly remained independent after all. Then he was using Bestware/HP'a affiliate deal as much as they used him to hype it, but after all, he is rightfully regaining trust of the community. 

 

We'll see, literally.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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I think 'hunting numbers' can become a hobby in its own right (like the old over-clocking days). Bottom line, does the kit perform well enough to immerse the player? Obviously that varies subjectively from player to player but the hardware is an objective factor. Personally I stop noticing the toilet-roll effect of the stock gasket after a few minutes in the cockpit.

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Well, indeed. In this case, it's not hunting numbers, at least for me. I want the best VR experience. Part of that is enjoying larger clarity. My G2 is lacking as well in that regard. It's almost as if it has G1 lenses.

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On 12/27/2020 at 2:35 PM, chiliwili69 said:

The mod adds just only a little bit more of FOV. Not comparable to the Index FOV with the maximun FOV.

 

I got the same printed gasket. However:

 

- the plastic gasket itself stands away from the hmd the same distance as the original, i.e. there's no horizontal FOV increase. I even shortened the four stand offs by 4mm, but that didn't make any difference either.

 

- There's a significant Veritcal FOV increase and that is an excellent change. I didn't realize how bad the vertical fov is with the original gasket. It feels a lot less claustrophobic now.

 

tldr:   Mod=increased vertical FOV=Awesome.

 

 

Edited by 69th_Didney_World
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18 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I'd probably pay $200 for a custom facial interface if it improved clarity and comfort. Viable business idea?

 

If the gasket is then produced with a cost of 20-30$ then there is a good margin. Maybe 100$ is a better price.

 

The wheel that regulates the distance to the lenses in the Index has a tax on the overall weight of the Index. (Also the larger size of the lenses). Index users will not need that.

 

Ideally, future VR headset manufacturers could define a universal model of gasket (The G2 and Index gaskets are very similar but different), so the users could keep their custom gaskets (built for their own face, eyes, asymetry, head size, etc) and plug the gasket in the new version of headsets which will appear every year or two. Then your business model could work.

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9 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

We'll see, literally.

 

In theory Valve provided lenses technology to HP to have less aberrations and better clarity along the FOV. That´s why I was expecting the same edge to edge clarity than Index. BTW, the Index edge to edge clarity is not perfect as well (there is always a small blurriness when the eyeballs move to the edges), but for my tested devices the Index is the best in that department.

 

The worst edge-to-edge clarity was the VivePro (without mod), then the G1 and then the G2.

On the Oculus side, the Rift CV1 or Rift-S had better edge-to-edge degradation than G2. But maybe my returned G2 (via bestware) was one of the bad ones. Who knows.

Let´s see what the MRTV guy found.

Edited by chiliwili69
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So is the increase in resolution worth the reduced FOV and reduced edge-to-edge clarity? I'm thinking G2 (on order)  vs Index (currently owned).

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3 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

So is the increase in resolution worth the reduced FOV and reduced edge-to-edge clarity?

 

This is the same question (but only for the reduced FOV) I was asking myself since G2 was announced.

But then there are two more con to my original question (reduced edge-to-edge clarity and huge GPU demand compared to G1).

 

If I were you I will buy the G2 and will test it A to B and B to A against the index. And return the G2 if you don´t like it.

Like I did here. I made my own camera picture to really compare the increased resolution and details.

Currently with the Index I don´t use any kind of swivel chair or software to check six, just a torsion of my body and neck and the FOV of the Index. With the G2 it was much more dificult to check six or follow planes around.

 

Ideally I would want a VR heaset with:

The FOV of Pimax (only that)

The weight and center resolution of the G2

The edge-to-edge clarity and software simplicity of the Index.

The price and GPU demand of Rift-S  😉

 

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21 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

So is the increase in resolution worth the reduced FOV and reduced edge-to-edge clarity? I'm thinking G2 (on order)  vs Index (currently owned).

 

1) the increased resolution is really nice, man. With MSAA x2 and native g2 steamvr resolution (2100x2200 sic!) there's very little shimmer on High preset. Definitely a step up in the right direction

 

2) the cons are the horizontal FOV is reporting 94 in-game. The only downside of this FOV is looking at your 5-6-7 o'clock where I need to make an extra effort to rotate my head + my upper torso to get a clearer image.

 

3) the vertical FOV is also pretty low, however this is fixable with the 3rd party plastic gasket (above). I think this fix alone is worth getting G2 and adopt this next gen hmd. This is a must mod imho.

 

There's a 'break-in' period for sure, at least for me it was. Interestingly enough the high resolution is the first thing you notice, but its benefits are quickly overshadowed by the FOV and the sweet spot challenges.

 

However, don't fret, after 1-2 weeks of use you'll get accustomed to it and if you put Index back on the first thing will jump at you is the poor resolution, godrays, and poor color contrast 😄 and after that there's no way going back to Index...

 

in short def worth it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

In theory Valve provided lenses technology to HP to have less aberrations and better clarity along the FOV. That´s why I was expecting the same edge to edge clarity than Index. BTW, the Index edge to edge clarity is not perfect as well (there is always a small blurriness when the eyeballs move to the edges), but for my tested devices the Index is the best in that department.

 

The worst edge-to-edge clarity was the VivePro (without mod), then the G1 and then the G2.

On the Oculus side, the Rift CV1 or Rift-S had better edge-to-edge degradation than G2. But maybe my returned G2 (via bestware) was one of the bad ones. Who knows.

Let´s see what the MRTV guy found.

 

Can't really say I notice a difference in edge to edge between my Reverb G2 and Rift S.

Of course the clarity of the image in G2 is much improved.

Edited by dburne
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I can say sweet spot aka clarity is quite narrow for me in G2, i feel rift S had much better edge to edge clarity for it's capability....maybe reason is improved clarity and resolution on G2 at the center compared to rift s idk.

Will see does gasket mod helps!

My impression is now that beside image quality (no sde and better resolution) rift S is better in all other fields (comfort, software, lenses, cable stiffnes....etc.)

I'm also curious to see what that MRTV guy will find out about lenses, for now it's like he advertised whole different product.

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2 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

I can say sweet spot aka clarity is quite narrow for me in G2, i feel rift S had much better edge to edge clarity for it's capability....maybe reason is improved clarity and resolution on G2 at the center compared to rift s idk.

Will see does gasket mod helps!

My impression is now that beside image quality (no sde and better resolution) rift S is better in all other fields (comfort, software, lenses, cable stiffnes....etc.)

I'm also curious to see what that MRTV guy will find out about lenses, for now it's like he advertised whole different product.

 

I think a lot like  edge to edge clarity, comfort etc is very much dependent on the individual. I find the G2 just as comfortable as my Rift S is. The cable bothers me no more than the Rift S cable did. I did not like the faceplate mod, others do. So many different shapes of heads, so many different ways of fit I reckon.

 

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

I think a lot like  edge to edge clarity, comfort etc is very much dependent on the individual. I find the G2 just as comfortable as my Rift S is. The cable bothers me no more than the Rift S cable did. I did not like the faceplate mod, others do. So many different shapes of heads, so many different ways of fit I reckon.

 

I also think that is the case!

G2 gasket doesn't fit on my head perfectly unles i tight those straps but that would be uncomfortable also and i don't want to mod original gasket (just need it to be a bit wider on side temple edges) so i'll just wait for 3d printed one and easily adjust it.

I like to wear it with minimal pressure on my face and head.

 

 

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12 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

I can say sweet spot aka clarity is quite narrow for me in G2, i feel rift S had much better edge to edge clarity for it's capability

 

I also saw the same. For a give clarity in the center (either G2 or Rift-S) in the G2 it get blurred more as you move your eye-balls to the edges.

12 hours ago, dburne said:

I think a lot like  edge to edge clarity, comfort etc is very much dependent on the individual

 

The comfort depends a lot on the individual.

But not the sweetspot (edge-to-edge clarity), assuming the headset IPD is in the range of the individual IPD.

Also, the clarity in the center of the vision doens´t depend on the individual.

11 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

G2 gasket doesn't fit on my head perfectly unles i tight those straps but that would be uncomfortable also and i don't want to mod original gasket (just need it to be a bit wider on side temple edges) so i'll just wait for 3d printed one and easily adjust it.

 

If you search in the thingiverse you will see that there is also 3D mods for wide sides https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4673045

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58 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I also saw the same. For a give clarity in the center (either G2 or Rift-S) in the G2 it get blurred more as you move your eye-balls to the edges.

 

The comfort depends a lot on the individual.

But not the sweetspot (edge-to-edge clarity), assuming the headset IPD is in the range of the individual IPD.

Also, the clarity in the center of the vision doens´t depend on the individual.

 

 

 

I would think the edge to edge clarity and even sweet spot must be affected some by the individual, eyes and shape of head.

Otherwise not sure how to explain the differences in how some perceive their headset?

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17 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

On the Oculus side, the Rift CV1 or Rift-S had better edge-to-edge degradation than G2.

 

This is true. But I believe the reason is that the CV1 resolution was so low that the degradation was not that noticeable.

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3 hours ago, dburne said:

I would think the edge to edge clarity and even sweet spot must be affected some by the individual, eyes and shape of head.

Otherwise not sure how to explain the differences in how some perceive their headset?

 

To check the sweet-spot of a device (defined as how the image blurrs as you look towards the edges with your eyeballs) you only need one eye.

 

So , face shape, head size, IPD is irrelevant. Just position one eye in the center of the lenses (the other eye is closed) and just move the eye ball from center to edge.

 

If you still keep your Rift-S you can compare it with the G2.

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2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

To check the sweet-spot of a device (defined as how the image blurrs as you look towards the edges with your eyeballs) you only need one eye.

 

So , face shape, head size, IPD is irrelevant. Just position one eye in the center of the lenses (the other eye is closed) and just move the eye ball from center to edge.

 

If you still keep your Rift-S you can compare it with the G2.

 

But I do not fly with just one eye like that.

What matters to me is how it looks in normal gameplay. And with that I am quite satisfied and I perceive no worse than with my Rift S.

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3 hours ago, dburne said:

ut I do not fly with just one eye like that.

What matters to me is how it looks in normal gameplay. And with that I am quite satisfied and I perceive no worse than with my Rift S.

 

Hey, if you are happy I am happy as well.

 

 

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8 hours ago, dburne said:

I would think the edge to edge clarity and even sweet spot must be affected some by the individual, eyes and shape of head.

Otherwise not sure how to explain the differences in how some perceive their headset?

 

We could also be seeing quality-control problems during manufacturing. It certainly seems that two people who know what they are talking about -- Chili and Fenris -- disagree about edge-to-edge sharpness on the G2. I'm inclined to believe both of them are correct -- could be due to manufacturing differences in the actual headset they received.

 

If it was some random "30-fps-is-okay", "I use 2.0 supersample on my 1080 it looks great", "performance is so smooth very improved" person I would discount their opinion, but both Chili and Fenris owned and tested many headsets and know what they are looking for.

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So I went through this and two other Reverb threads but I am still not sure, which is the best replacement to get a bigger FoV.

Can someone maybe tell me, which is currently the best available one to buy? The MRTV tip (using Odyssey+ replacement) is out of stock unfortunately and I don't have a 3D printer at home (+ it's bloody expensive to order a custom 3D print in Germany).

Getting my Reverb in two weeks and FoV is quite important for me. Many thanks!

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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On 1/6/2021 at 11:22 AM, dburne said:

 

I would think the edge to edge clarity and even sweet spot must be affected some by the individual, eyes and shape of head.

Otherwise not sure how to explain the differences in how some perceive their headset?

 

That is my conclusion as well.

The reason why we are seeing so many differences of opinion regarding the sweet spot is purely the variation of headsize and shape. The IPD slider can accomodate the eye difference but the padding can't do the same with head shape unfortunately.

 

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5 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

So I went through this and two other Reverb threads but I am still not sure, which is the best replacement to get a bigger FoV.

Can someone maybe tell me, which is currently the best available one to buy? The MRTV tip (using Odyssey+ replacement) is out of stock unfortunately and I don't have a 3D printer at home (+ it's bloody expensive to order a custom 3D print in Germany).

Getting my Reverb in two weeks and FoV is quite important for me. Many thanks!

 

in my personal experience:

 

- the HMD and the factory plastic gasket+padding already give you the maximum Horizontally displayed FOV of the HMD

- removing the factory plastic gasket and sticking the padding directly on the HMD: 

  1. simply brings the HMD closer to your eyes and gives you a false impression that the horizontally displayed FOV has been increased. It hasn't. It's just closer to your eyes, that's about it. You're still seeing exactly the same pixels as with the gasket.
  2. However, with this setup you get a bump in a vertical FOV. The factory plastic gasket indeed reduces the vertical FOV and when removed you get a feeling of the increased space, FOV, etc, which some people erroneously attribute to a horizontal FOV bump.
  3. this setup isn't the best as the sweet spot is greatly reduced despite having a feeling of increased FOV. You can't use it because it's pretty blurry except for the clear spot right in the center. Also, with lenses being so close to your eyes you start getting some weird optical aberrations, almost like a polarization effects with some parts of the image getting darker.
  4. in all I wouldn't recommend this, but it's easy to try.

- getting a custom 3d printed gasket has its limited benefits:

  1. can't really use the odyssey+ padding, it's way too thick. I've used the VivePro padding from VRcover, it's thinner, smaller, and a lot more manageable to stick on the gasket
  2. you can get the lenses 4-5 mm closer to your face without the side effects of aberration/polarization, however it's difficult to judge if it adds anything to the experience
  3. you'll get a noticeable increase in Vertical FOV, the HMD will feel a lot more "open".  <-- real benefit
  4. you'll get a nose gap which allows you to use a keyboard without taking off the hmd <-- real benefit

 

that's my $0.02

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12 hours ago, Georgio said:

the sweet spot is purely the variation of headsize and shape

 

The sweetspot (understood as clarity from edge to edge) is something that can be tested with just one eye. You don´t need two eyes to test that.

Just place one eye in the center of the lens so you have a clear vision in the center. Now move just the eye ball to the edge of the lens to see if you have the same clarity.

So, IPD, or shape or headsize has nothing to do with this issue.

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

The sweetspot (understood as clarity from edge to edge) is something that can be tested with just one eye. You don´t need two eyes to test that.

Just place one eye in the center of the lens so you have a clear vision in the center. Now move just the eye ball to the edge of the lens to see if you have the same clarity.

So, IPD, or shape or headsize has nothing to do with this issue.

 

Sweetspot I would not consider as having clarity edge to edge, it is the percentage of image that has the  most clarity versus the overall image. Typically in the central area of the image expanding out some. Bigger sweetspot expands out more ( in all directions). I am not aware of a headset that the whole image could be considered sweet spot.

In fact Oculus using their Link technology with Quest reduces intentionally the sharpness of the image outside of the sweetspot to help performance overall of the headset, which was a smart move on their part.

 

For my part, I find the sweetspot of my Reverb G2 no better or no worse than my Rift S or Quest. I would not mind having an Index also to see how it is but I ain't going to pay their price to get one. And I like simplicity of my tracking.

I also did not find this mod that Sebastian recommended do anything for the sweetspot, and I really did not care for it after using it a bit. Also did not find it did much for FOV.

 

Edited by dburne
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17 minutes ago, dburne said:

Sweetspot I would not consider as having clarity edge to edge, it is the percentage of image that has the  most clarity versus the overall image.

 

Yes, I mean the same. When I put in brackets "clarity from edge-to-edge" I did because there are two definitions of sweetspot which are used indistintively.

 

Main problem here is the definition of "SweetSpot", apparently there are two definitions: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/8gacgm/so_whats_sweet_spot_really/ 

Definition1: Positioning range of the HMD on the face where you can get clear image  

Definition2: How the image gets blurred as you move the eyeballs to the edges (edge-to-edge clarity). So % of clear vision over the full FOV.

 

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7 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Yes, I mean the same. When I put in brackets "clarity from edge-to-edge" I did because there are two definitions of sweetspot which are used indistintively.

 

Main problem here is the definition of "SweetSpot", apparently there are two definitions: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/8gacgm/so_whats_sweet_spot_really/ 

Definition1: Positioning range of the HMD on the face where you can get clear image  

Definition2: How the image gets blurred as you move the eyeballs to the edges (edge-to-edge clarity). So % of clear vision over the full FOV.

 

 

Only one sweetspot which can vary from headset to headset. Though so far in the few I have had they are all pretty similar.

It is that part of the image one moves their head to keep in front of them.

;)

Edited by dburne
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I'm going to avoid the term "sweet spot":

 

I've owned Rift CV1, Rift S, Pimax Artisan, Valve Index and (now) Reverb G2. I only have the Index and G2 on hand today (sold the others) but my impression is that Rift S and Index both have pretty good overall sharpness and a gentle falloff in apparent sharpness outside of the center. The Pimax Artisan and Reverb G2 have more sudden sharpness falloff from the center (for me). I believe there's something very good about the Index lenses -- if you upgraded the panel underneath them, I think people would agree that it gave a better picture than the G2.

 

I got my 3D printed gasket mod for the G2, I might try it even without a face pad (still on order, + magnets). I did a text comparison with the Index and G2 and although my eyes complain about the sudden sharpness dropoff in the G2, the actual legibility is very similar between the two headsets at similar angles off center. It's just the G2 goes from tack-sharp to 'meh' very very quickly and so it's visually much more obvious.

 

VR headsets are stupid. I now have the great-in-all-ways-except-resolution Valve Index and the insanely-sharp-mostly-good-but-obvious-sharpness-falloff G2. Valve Index G2 when?

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10 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

The sweetspot (understood as clarity from edge to edge) is something that can be tested with just one eye. You don´t need two eyes to test that.

Just place one eye in the center of the lens so you have a clear vision in the center. Now move just the eye ball to the edge of the lens to see if you have the same clarity.

So, IPD, or shape or headsize has nothing to do with this issue.

 

Wrong.

 

Head size and shape has everything to do with it purely as it varies where your eyes are positioned in the Z axis as it were.

This changes your perception of the central clarity and if you do the simple exercise of pushing the headset tighter or less tighter to your face you'll see it in action.

 

This is why we're seeing so many different opinions on if the 'sweet' spot is big small or indifferent. As I've also said, you already have a natural sweet spot with your eyes, so the headset is designed to try and mimic this albeit without eye-tracking. Maybe if this is cracked we might see an advance in headset tech with more resources concentrated into that 20% or so central area with the rest falling off to the edge of view. This would take a lot of pressure off the GPU trying to render a bigger fov and maybe give the current crop of GPU's a good chance of getting a true 8K per eye in a few years.

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42 minutes ago, Georgio said:

Wrong.

 

Head size and shape has everything to do with it purely as it varies where your eyes are positioned in the Z axis as it were.

This changes your perception of the central clarity and if you do the simple exercise of pushing the headset tighter or less tighter to your face you'll see it in action.

 

Varing the distance of the eye to the lens (Z axis) doesn´t really change the size of the sweet spot. I had been testing this a lot with the original gasket, with the mod gasket and without gasket.

On my experimentation I realized that it was not a problem of the distance to the lens, it was an intrinsic problem not solvable by any mod.

In my opinion, the mod only modify a little bit the FOV (either vertically or horizontally), but still prefered the FOV of the Index.

 

9 hours ago, Alonzo said:

alve Index G2 when?

 

For sure not in 2021, perhaps 2022. But certainly it would be relatively "easy" for Valve just to create an Index Pro just changing the panels resolution for a 2160x2160.

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