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Another new old player - pleased and disappointed


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Hello Folks,

 I'm another of the old dogs new to IL2:GBs. It's a great game, and I want to emphasize that, but it has a serious problem.

I played Il2 Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters when they were current and for some time after. Spent a lot of time in Rise Of Flight, then went to DCS, where I enjoyed the F5 and the Huey, though I didn't do much gaming at the time. It's been a few years since then and haven't played sims. Gave away a lot of my old, tired gear, only keeping some odds and ends. However, I recently bought an old nVidia 980, borrowed a Gen. 1 Rift and a TM Warthog and bought IL2:BOS on sale.

VR, even with my old gear, is fantastic and really immersive. I am susceptible to nausea in VR, I know this as I worked in VR for about a year. But 1CS has nailed it. Excellent implementation, minimal motion sickness even at suboptimal frame rates. With sharpening filter on, I can read the instruments, and the glinting and enhanced visibility of distant planes is a great aid to immersion.

 

I am enjoying BOS and look forward to the few hours a week when I can play through a day of the Career. The planes are lovely, the terrain is appealing and I am starting to be able to navigate the map a bit. I do have to say that in VR I need to use the icons quite a bit, mostly for navigation. I really wish they were more customizable, such as being able to just see nav icons, and/or just your squadron. Likewise with the map. Also, I wish the videos that play in the career had information about the historical situations. How has the frontline changed? Where are the new hotspots? Where are the active airfields? What's the historical context? Flying with the squadron AI is perplexing. I have no idea what they are up to, nor even where I should be in the formation. I kind of bumble along with them... pretty sure I get a good teasing back at the mess after every flight. The radio messages are nearly useless, most of the time I can't tell which are coming from me and which are to me. Ah well, I have played enough of these games to know that's always an issue and I have patience for it and once I got over it I don't find it much of an issue if I use icons occasionally.

 

Now the problem. I am disappointed at how inaccessible the game is. Not for me, I'm used to hacking controller configs and I know the basic principles of air combat and squadron coordination. And I know that learning the ropes of a new sim is worth it.
However,  I convinced three of my friends to also get BOS when it was on sale. I talked up the fun i remembered from coop RoF and DCS, said I'd run a server and we could do intercepts and fighter sweeps together. Two of the three have decent HOTAS that they got for space sims and games. All have better rigs and VR than I do, and all of them are programmers.
I got them up and running in VR, they enjoyed "easy mode" MP server I set up and thought the game itself was was impressive and fun. "Ha that was great, let's do it again." But interest lagged. Why?

 

Turns out what really turned them off was the initial user experience. Which plane does what? Key Mapping. No way to detect key conflicts. No way to find out what button was assigned to what. No way to know which binds you even needed for a particular plane. "Which of the trim options should I bind for the Yak?" Which firing buttons do I need?"  Being fairly new, I couldn't help them. They tried, spent an hour futzing and two decided it just wasn't worth it. 

The one who bothered to delve a bit further tried the Career. I had to tell him how to even start it (pick a squadron on the map, etc..) He got it going, then "It was a wall of text about someone, then I clicked randomly until I was in a mission and, despite reading the briefing, had no idea what was going on." The Russian radio messages were not a help. I told him he could find a mod for english but he couldn't find it on the Steam Workshop (is there one?) and once I told him about JGSME (an unsupported program you download from random places) he was out. Frankly on that I agree, mods should be available on Steam, correct me if they are but I couldn't find them. When he was flying, he enjoyed it. I bet I I could get him to play a bit more, but only through a lot of effort on my end.

In short, the game itself is excellent. The initial user side is terrible and it only is usable because the community support is stellar. If I could get my friends to watch an hour of the well-produced youtube tutorials before playing maybe it would have ended better, but few intro players will find the 'right one' to get them started even if they have the patience. I was happy to find the mod that turns the girly pic into plane notes - with that alone I'm now able to land without pranging. Why isn't that the default in game? 

 

Enough complaining, glad to be playing again and thanks to all the devs and community who have kept this game going and improving.
 

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31 minutes ago, pakfront said:

In short, the game itself is excellent. The initial user side is terrible and it only is usable because the community support is stellar. If I could get my friends to watch an hour of the well-produced youtube tutorials before playing maybe it would have ended better, but few intro players will find the 'right one' to get them started even if they have the patience.

 

On one hand, I see your point. On the other hand, I disagree. Here's my reasoning:

 

I agree in that the new user experience is barebones, especially so for users totally new to all sims. On the other hand, most of the things you mentioned (trim, trigger bindings, etc) weren't a problem for me at least. I came straight from IL-2 1946, no other recent sims. I didn't need to check this forum (I mainly come here for fun more than advice) on how to run the basics of the game. I also don't consider myself a genius or anywhere close when it comes to using games or peripherals. I'm not bragging here. I just had very little difficulty.

 

First of all, things like trim aren't even necessary for a new pilot. I'm sure I'll get pelted with virtual tomatoes for saying so, but whatever. Focus on the basics first. I consider trim to be more advanced. And firing buttons? I only have 6 buttons on my stick since my main trigger broke; with some rebinding I bypassed the old trigger and remapped my stick so it's still functional. I can still fire cannon and machine guns separately, and rockets and bombs all from my stick, so I'm not sure what more you need there.

 

As for career, if someone doesn't know where they should be going... maybe turn the map waypoints on? Maybe turn icons on? Make it artificially easy while you're learning, then turn off these aids when you feel comfortable later. I would think people would be perfectly willing to try these things before jumping to the uninstall point. And if they're not, I don't know what to say. Did your friends have any interest in WWII aviation prior to playing IL2? Because that could make a huge difference in who keeps playing the game and who doesn't. For better or for worse (in terms of widespread popularity), this is not the kind of game that attracts and keeps dilettantes.

 

51 minutes ago, pakfront said:

 I was happy to find the mod that turns the girly pic into plane notes

 

Nope, not me. I'd rather see some boobies on my instrument panel, even if it means landing every plane at 120-40 MPH, burning my brakes with 2 feet of runway left, and groundlooping my right aileron off.

 

Boobies > safety.

 

SturmForumCrop.thumb.jpg.d1d9041549f5adeb36bf3713ec336455.jpg

 

Yup. I'm a sad, sad perv.

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I think it is undeniable that there is a lack of a tutorial. But for this there are some member made aids like for example here:
Utopioneer started with tutorial series for all aircraft (with the needed keybinds) and guides you through the first steps (it's really worth a try!)

Spoiler

 

You can also find the Air Combat Tutorial Libary on Youtube. It doesn't deal directly with key bindings, but covers many basics:

The same applies to Sheriff which also has a basic and tutorial series:

Spoiler

 

And the two channels can be found within 2 seconds if you search for Il-2 Tutorial (and there are many more channels going in that direction). So there is actually some help if you search for it. I don't have Il-2 via Steam but I'm pretty sure that at least one of them has written a basic tutorial on it (I'd be surprised if they didn't).  

 

Il-2 can seem a bit complicated at first sight, but especially compared to 1946 the structure is quite similar in my eyes and the only thing you really have to take care of are the special key assignments for the planes like stabilizer trim (for the Germans) and some coolers. And the ingame plane specs (or Requiems/Sheriffs etc. tutorials) point out what special assingements are needed.

 

I hope those links help you and your buddies a bit and hopefully you guys can overcome your inital disappointment

 

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" Key Mapping. No way to detect key conflicts. No way to find out what button was assigned to what. No way to know which binds you even needed for a particular plane. "

This information is in the key menu bind (showing doubled key assignments ).

 

If profesional programmers can't figure out user interface who we are .. rocket scientist ? 🙃

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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1 hour ago, pakfront said:

Turns out what really turned them off was the initial user experience.

This is probably because selling this game is like preaching to the choir. The main customerbase not only has a very precise idea of what to do, they also know the aircraft and know what you do with it and how you do it. Making a comprehensive tutorial that is actually part of the game is a lot of work that most will not use. Especially since there are fantastic tutorials out there. But still, if you are a newbie you don't know of that and, as uneducated customer, one has even a hard time distinguishing between quality tutorials and "other stuff".

 

I agree, just starting the game, not knowing about those aircraft and expecting a nice gaming experience, that won't happen. And that is a problem for the game  as such.

 

The problem I see with the tutorial is that if you were to make a section of the game specifically dedicated in teaching you the aircraft, what you are doing as gameplay is still extremely sophisticated and thus it involves a very steep learning curve. It is far worse than any shooter, as there you can only improve your reflexes and learn where on the map are the good spots from where to shoot the others. In the flight sim, air combat maneuvering is far more complicated and it is often not intuitive at all. Worse, not knowing it makes you think that the other guys aircraft must be superior and that is why you are losing. This is especially bad if you think you are somewhat good in singleplayer and then you still get your trashing in multiplayer. It really requires you to like flying the aircraft per se, as in terms of a game, there is next to nothing in for you to win. You will require considerable time to put up some resistance to "frequent flyers".

 

In short, even an elaborate tutorial will not help you from failing at missions. I am not sure if putting all the effort in to make such a tutorial would really pay off. The experienced ones don't need it and the rookies still get a trashing. It is not like almost every iPad game, that sets the difficultly level on the fly such that you always manage to be somewhat good and let you think that by playing a bit longer you might just win. That doesn't work here.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

 

" Key Mapping. No way to detect key conflicts. No way to find out what button was assigned to what. No way to know which binds you even needed for a particular plane. "

This information is in the key menu bind (showing doubled key assignments ).

 

If profesional programmers can't figure out user interface who we are .. rocket scientist ? 🙃

 

Well we know by experience. Do you hover over every button in a new program that is very complex to find out what it does? I doubt that.

 

I think these posts are very important. What we see here in the forums are usually an experienced bunch of people with hundreds if not thousands of hours in the game. They have forgotten or are not the type of players who lost interest one way or another in the initial stages.

Initial experience can really turn you away from something and you probably experienced it with other programs too.

 

I think there are very well put points in the post - does not mean I necessarily agree with all but I can definitely value the feedback that is interested in making something more accessible. 

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IL2 is a detailed combat flight sim, not a game you come across and download onto your phone and expect to be able to be an ace is 5 minutes.

I have been playing IL2 since it first came out as 1946 (picked it up in a bargain bucket probably 15 years ago, at my local supermarket for £5.99, since then have spent a fortune on pc upgrades, graphic cards, hotas controls etc :) ) and have stayed hooked, but even now I am still learning new skills in the art of dog fighting. 

 

Glad that you have it, stick with it, you will be rewarded. As people have posted, there is loads of information out there.

 

Salute

Friar

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33 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Well we know by experience. Do you hover over every button in a new program that is very complex to find out what it does? I doubt that.

 

I think these posts are very important. What we see here in the forums are usually an experienced bunch of people with hundreds if not thousands of hours in the game. They have forgotten or are not the type of players who lost interest one way or another in the initial stages.

Initial experience can really turn you away from something and you probably experienced it with other programs too.

 

I think there are very well put points in the post - does not mean I necessarily agree with all but I can definitely value the feedback that is interested in making something more accessible. 

You doubt  but I would  do .All that stuff was  made by ppl , ppl do tend to think similar or it's not that hard to figure it out  :) Guess my natural problems solving ability.  This all is communication sort of :) figure out Vi without manual Haha 

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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I tend to criticise the game very often although I disagree with most of the gripes written. Your friends problably don`t do flighsims anyway, since they can`t be bothered.

The interface is very much streamlined and accesible, much more than DCS or CloD. The keys are shown to overlap if applied and "engine, camera, gun" control sections are easy to find. The buttons and axises are easy to configure.

The planes have extensive and concise info window on every briefing. Including specific quirks and required procedures. The only two aircraft particulary hard to operate are Me262 and Ju52 due to less information stored on them. But again, it is obvious if you fly the planes, you need to know something about them.

 

The only thing that stays pretty bad is AI flying, acting in career and (not) following orders.

And maybe on the game meta, most of the new user questions are about game - steam integration, which is imo not very well explained.

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My start was about 2 years ago. I do love planes, and have some knowledge about them.

Anyway, it was not so easy on start.

 

Mainly I had 2 huge problems:

  1. Which controls do I need? Per plane, and in general? How to make good joystick layout, and not to change it per plane? (and use it “blind” in VR)
  2. How to recognize who is who? There are no icons in MP, how many planes I have to memorize?

 

I red many threads in forum to get some answers. Especialy because different people makes things different.

Then I figured german attackers are easier for beginners, as there is only throttle in engine management (BF 109, FW 190). I was flying german side first 6 months.

I was watching youtube tutorials, and read everything about dogfights. Slowly I was getting more confident.

 

Then I tried to learn other planes, with engine menagement. I made my notes about every plane, and figured that many levers/buttons are same on different planes.

Some can be binded together, as they have same function just are slightly different from plane to plane.

See https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/59302-key-bindings-double-funktion/?tab=comments#comment-901741That was huge step for me.

 

 

For problem 2, to help myself I “stole” plane pictures, and made a “IL-2 BOS plane recognition game memrise”

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/42881-il-2-bos-plane-recognition-game-memrise/?tab=comments#comment-726602I was playing it on my cellphone whenever I had some free time, 5min, 10min and soon problem 2 was alo solved.

 

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Made a suggestion in the suggestions topic to add a drop down that would allow the player to select a vehicle.  The key bindings displayed would be filtered to those applicable to the vehicle.  Been playing this game for years and I know that would help me.

 

@pakfront if your friends are not up to engine management right away you can turn it off.  I agree that this sim takes time, but that level of detail is also what makes it enjoyable.  Every new plane takes some practice flights before you can really do the basics with it.  That is inaccessible for somebody that wants to jump in and go, but not so much for those who really enjoy the experience.

 

What I do with a new plane is immediately consult the "how to fly" videos to get the basics of the cockpit.  Once I know that, which bindings to use makes much more sense.  If you have more questions on the plane of the moment then post in the forum.  On full real settings it will take a day or two to get going.  

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Flying is complex, aircraft are complex machines, combat is a complex activity. This stuff can't be spoonfed or installed via a drip feed, it has to be learnt by experience. It was that way with the bryl cream boys and we are so over supplied with data and reference material from which to learn but in the end we do this because we feel driven to do it. If your approach is as to a game then I can see how easy it is to get brassed off, but for others it is much more and they can't stop it as it's more like a drug.

Edited by Madov
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I agree the out-of-flight could use some love. More tools and info for the user and more configurability would go a long way. Not trivialising the work involved. I work in a SW company and the code-boffins always refer to "configurable" as a 4-letter-word.

 

 

I, for one, would love a tool to audit my control setup. Nothing more than something that lets me push a button on one my HOTAS components and the UI tells me what command I have issued. There is a boat-load of buttons on my setup and I can't remember which on is joy3_b23 or whatever. It could either lower my gear or command my pilot to jump ship...(My throttle has a 3x3 cluster of thumb buttons, one of which is bail out. I can never remember which one is bound to bail-out so I just mash the lot of them)

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4 minutes ago, 40plus said:

I agree the out-of-flight could use some love. More tools and info for the user and more configurability would go a long way. Not trivialising the work involved. I work in a SW company and the code-boffins always refer to "configurable" as a 4-letter-word.

 

 

I, for one, would love a tool to audit my control setup. Nothing more than something that lets me push a button on one my HOTAS components and the UI tells me what command I have issued. There is a boat-load of buttons on my setup and I can't remember which on is joy3_b23 or whatever. It could either lower my gear or command my pilot to jump ship...(My throttle has a 3x3 cluster of thumb buttons, one of which is bail out. I can never remember which one is bound to bail-out so I just mash the lot of them)

 

My company configures the configurations.  Not kidding.  Configuration can definitely be a four letter word.

 

In PWCG I clawed back some configs that should not have been exposed.  The ones that are left are actually good things.  I think the configs in game are also good to have and often necessary.  Better organization always helps but I can sympathize - presenting configs in a clean, clear fashion is always a PITA.

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I agree, this game could use a lot of love on the GUI side. Just a nice presentation of each airplane with a couple of sentences on why it's a cool plane and what its quirks are would already go so far to make this more approachable!

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The BoX series would benefit from training campaigns for each plane, complete with a short cinematic that explains the plane, its features, what distinguishes it from the rest of the planes, etc., a cockpit guide and key binding overview, and a number of missions on take-off, landing, cruise, and combat that would have been standard for new pilots in the 1930s and 1940s.  

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46 minutes ago, Sky_Wolf said:

The BoX series would benefit from training campaigns for each plane, complete with a short cinematic that explains the plane, its features, what distinguishes it from the rest of the planes, etc., a cockpit guide and key binding overview, and a number of missions on take-off, landing, cruise, and combat that would have been standard for new pilots in the 1930s and 1940s.  

 

We have something just like that now. Check out Utopioneer's Flight School campaign series.

 

 

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Being the "devil" (or just dev) advocate: making a sim like this is insanely hard from all possible points of view, technical, financial etc. Just look at what happened with IL-2 GB. So by the time a somehow playable game is ready, there are lot fewer resources left to make it user-friendly and create playable content: the users will probably figure it out, create their missions and campaign, run MP servers and so on. It is probably true for all simulators, and IL-2 is not that bad in this regard, it is actually pretty good. Some other sims have it even worse. So let's cut some slack for the Team.

Edited by mincer
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Thanks for the replies. I'm aware of a lot of the resources mentioned and sent the same links to them weeks ago. I'll pass along the new one too.

 

I appreciate the hard work that the devs, publisher and community have put into the game. I also appreciate that Il2:GB is it's arguably unique in being a flight sim that is both realistic and playable, . That's why I want my friends to play too.

The problem I saw is in the first few hours a new player has the game. Problems with the UI and the access to learning resources, not with the sim itself. Those hours can change an $8 impulse buy into a long term customer. More importantly to me, it's the difference between getting to fly with my friends or not!

I know this has been mentioned several times on this forum, and from the replies I saw there are some common thoughts on how to improve. Key Mapper improvements and some 'official' beginner content or in-game curated links to the best of the community content would go a long way.

 

 

 

Edited by pakfront
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58 minutes ago, pakfront said:

Thanks for the replies. I'm aware of a lot of the resources mentioned and sent the same links to them weeks ago. I'll pass along the new one too.

 

I appreciate the hard work that the devs, publisher and community have put into the game. I also appreciate that Il2:GB does a great job of making a flight sim that is both realistic and playable. That's why I want my friends to play too.

The problem I saw is in the first few hours a new player has the game. Problems with the UI and the access to learning resources, not with the sim itself. Those hours can change an $8 impulse buy into a long term customer. More importantly to me, it's the difference between getting to fly with my friends or not!

I know this has been mentioned several times on this forum, and from the replies I saw there are some common thoughts on how to improve. Key Mapper improvements and some 'official' beginner content or in-game curated links to the best of the community content would go a long way.

 

This post has links to many resources.

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12 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

If profesional programmers can't figure out user interface who we are .. rocket scientist ? 🙃

 

I'm a professional programmer. User interface is for User Experience experts. 🤪

 

Also, how many programmers does it take to change a light bulb? No number is enough - it's a hardware problem!

Edited by J2_Bidu
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I've been fascinated by airplanes since I was a little kid. I remember seeing contrails in the sky but not knowing what they were. A cousin would make me paper airplanes when I was too little to understand how to make them myself. Those were my starters. Then came dime store balsa wood gliders.Those were followed by plastic models. Books. Videos. Flight sims since the late 1980s. I imagine most of us here followed similar paths. It's as close to real piloting as I'll ever get anyway.

 

Since I started flying sims, I can't put a number to how many people I've shown my current, latest, greatest sim I was flying. BoX included. Most were "that's cool" in their replies. And that's it. Some were history buffs. Some were gamers. People you would think might have a genuine interest in trying to learn a flight sim. None ever took up the hobby to my knowledge. I don't think the OPs friends lack of interest is really an indication of any lacking in the BoX series as much as their own indifference to the genre. I'm the same way in other ares of gaming. Personally, I have absolutely no interest in 99% of the shooters or role playing games out there. I suspect the a fore mentioned friends probably don't care much about aviation or air combat. At least not enough to put a lot of time into learning this sim. It is a steep learning curve, but rewarding if that is one's desire. It just isn't for everyone.

 

 

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Thanks. To be clear, my complaint isn't that the resources aren't there. They are and they are good. It's that for a new player not stepped in the simming tradition, searching the publishers forum for guides isn't the first or even the second thing they'd do when playing the game. At least a basic set need to be available in game.

 

And it's a fair point that their lack of interest may be at the root of the issue. I happen to know one is a history buff, the other two not so much. But I still contend that the initial experience is daunting enough that you have to have inordinate enthusiasm to persevere. I've enjoyed plenty of games even though I had no interest in the setting or backstory. If they'd been hard to get started, I doubt I would have bothered.

 

As a case in point, while I've always loved pre-20th Century history, I had no interest in aviation or WWII until I played Combat Mission : Beyond Overlord and the original IL2. So sometimes it works in reverse - a good game introduces you to a whole new passion.

Edited by pakfront
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28 minutes ago, pakfront said:

Thanks. To be clear, my complaint isn't that the resources aren't there. They are and they are good. It's that for a new player not stepped in the simming tradition, searching the publishers forum for guides isn't the first or even the second thing they'd do when playing the game. At least a basic set need to be available in game.

...

 

Perhaps a link to the "Manuals, Tutorials, Guides and Tips" section of the forum would help if it was placed in a few prominent places on the store website and in the game. One stop in that forum section (especially the pinned items) would go a long way toward demystifying the game for new users.

Edited by JimTM
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54 minutes ago, Rjel said:

I've been fascinated by airplanes since I was a little kid. I remember seeing contrails in the sky but not knowing what they were. A cousin would make me paper airplanes when I was too little to understand how to make them myself. Those were my starters. Then came dime store balsa wood gliders.Those were followed by plastic models. Books. Videos. Flight sims since the late 1980s. I imagine most of us here followed similar paths. It's as close to real piloting as I'll ever get anyway.

 

Since I started flying sims, I can't put a number to how many people I've shown my current, latest, greatest sim I was flying. BoX included. Most were "that's cool" in their replies. And that's it. Some were history buffs. Some were gamers. People you would think might have a genuine interest in trying to learn a flight sim. None ever took up the hobby to my knowledge. I don't think the OPs friends lack of interest is really an indication of any lacking in the BoX series as much as their own indifference to the genre. I'm the same way in other ares of gaming. Personally, I have absolutely no interest in 99% of the shooters or role playing games out there. I suspect the a fore mentioned friends probably don't care much about aviation or air combat. At least not enough to put a lot of time into learning this sim. It is a steep learning curve, but rewarding if that is one's desire. It just isn't for everyone.

 

 

Sadly you are spot on. Simmers are a niche market and sadly too many developers chase after money and quick high profit releases vs putting out a quality product. Since we are a niche its harder to get good games. Its one reason I supported this as soon as I heard about it and why I may drop the coin on tank crew.

 

Ive shown plenty of friends IL2 and silent hunter back in the day. Not one picked them up or stayed with it. It just didnt appeal to them. Yet I can play them forever and crave modern versions.

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40 minutes ago, pakfront said:

And it's a fair point that their lack of interest may be at the root of the issue. I happen to know one is a history buff, the other two not so much. But I still contend that the initial experience is daunting enough that you have to have inordinate enthusiasm to persevere. I've enjoyed plenty of games even though I had no interest in the setting or backstory. If they'd been hard to get started, I doubt I would have bothered.

 

As a case in point, while I've always loved pre-20th Century history, I had no interest in aviation or WWII until I played Combat Mission : Beyond Overlord and the original IL2. So sometimes it works in reverse - a good game introduces you to a whole new passion.

 

Unfortunately there are parts of career sorties that simply can't be avoided. Career absolutely takes 'inordinate enthusiasm' to play. There will be sorties where you fly for ~30 minutes and nothing happens besides takeoff and landing. And that might piss you off, depending on whether you desperately want to shoot planes down every sortie. But that's just how it goes sometimes.

 

New players should definitely stick to quick missions. They should change the difficulty settings (which doesn't even require leaving the quick mission setup page) to make themselves invincible for a while. Put all the settings on easy mode. Play for a while, try takeoffs and landings. They might even enjoy playing that way without ever changing the settings to realistic. But if they do get bored with easy mode, then they can turn on realism gradually. After all that, then move on to career mode.

 

But if people get bored with 'walls of text' that are pilot biographies in career mode (many of those bios are actually pretty well-written, by the way), then I doubt they're going to read the newspapers with any interest either. Or the unit histories. These are all things a person is intrinsically open to learning, or not. I'm not sure any game in existence can incentivize caring about the backstory. 

 

The truth is, career mode is what you make it. It doesn't tell you what your goal is. You define your own goals in it. Some people like turning on iron man mode just to see how many sorties they can live through. Others like to ground pound in it. Some like to see how long they can keep their wingmen alive over hundreds of sorties. Some like to see how many kills they can get per sortie. Some try to get to legendary total kill counts (like 500+). It's all what you make it. The 'go from point A to point B' part of career is not what makes it interesting.

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15 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

They should change the difficulty settings (which doesn't even require leaving the quick mission setup page) to make themselves invincible for a while. Put all the settings on easy mode. Play for a while, try takeoffs and landings.

 

I don't know that I agree with that. It is one way to do it, but I recommend tackling complex engine management early if you ever intend to implement it later. However, I still use a HUD and markers and probably will never give them up.

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15 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

I don't know that I agree with that. It is one way to do it, but I recommend tackling complex engine management early if you ever intend to implement it later. However, I still use a HUD and markers and probably will never give them up.

 

I'm just the opposite. I hate engine management, but I never use markers and only use HUD when I want to check my ammo count, after which I turn it off.

 

Total novices would have to experiment with realism settings to see what they can tolerate and what they can't. A game can't really tell them how to be comfortable, any more than a game could predict what you and I want. Trial and error is the only way through that process. And trial and error requires dedication, which is fueled by enthusiasm. That's kind of the crux of the whole 'simulator accessibility' conundrum.

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I like the HUD, but I wish there was a "realistic" HUD that didn't have an ammo counter. I feel like the HUD makes up for the limitations of looking at gauges which in reality would be much faster than the computer interface allows. Like driving a car, I can see my gauges with the flick of an eye but in IL-2 I have to zoom in and out. I will not excuse my use of markers--I just feel too lost without them ;)

1 hour ago, ksetuni said:

Ive shown plenty of friends IL2 and silent hunter back in the day. Not one picked them up or stayed with it. It just didnt appeal to them.

 

Every time there is a sale on I offer a free BOX game over on the board wargame forum I belong to. I would think that they are a perfect group to recruit from, but only one ever took me up on the offer and he doesn't play much. It can be expensive to get all the equipment to become serious, at least that is a strong perception. And frankly I think there is an assumption that you're either an ace or fodder with very few aces and a lot of fodder.

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1 hour ago, cardboard_killer said:

I like the HUD, but I wish there was a "realistic" HUD that didn't have an ammo counter. I feel like the HUD makes up for the limitations of looking at gauges which in reality would be much faster than the computer interface allows. Like driving a car, I can see my gauges with the flick of an eye but in IL-2 I have to zoom in and out. I will not excuse my use of markers--I just feel too lost without them ;)

 

Great response. I agree on the gauges. Its the limitations of the current hardware.

 

I grew tired of the full switch elitists that insisted their way was the only way to fly which was full switch. They forgot that while its s simulator, its also a game and meant to be relaxing and fun. If someone wants to fly a certain way for them to enjoy it then so be it. It means more people playing and buying the game. I personally preferred no cockpit most of the time due to the limitations of the screen and friendly icons on. There were few things worse than to chase a plane down only to discover it was a friendly. I also flew full realistic controls as I wanted that experience. It made for a nice balance, challenge  and good immersion. Most of these so called experts havent sat in a plane, let alone fly or taxi them. I have. Ive also had the honor of sitting in many warbirds and being able to get a better perspective of what they could see and the limitations of such.

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@pakfront

I am also an old chap with some serious IL-Experience.

My problem is to taxy and get of the ground.

Key bindings is also a serious issue.

But. Maybe with this forum i'll make some progress.

 

Cheers

Sulu

 

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The only thing I can mention for a new flyer is to have an in game flight school... like rise of flight...  as cheesy as the animation was, it was fun :) 

A nice way to easy someone into the configuration... 

but not third-party, you have to go to this website and download this mission specific, watch these tutorials...   

I get it, the devs are busy building our warbird dreams and don’t have the time for a training campaign.... 

heck only reason I knew what to expect is from rise of flight and playing the beta of BOS...  you didn’t even have guns!!!!! :)  

 

Well it’s not as bad as  Star Wars:Squadrons ui... holy... having to bind joystick buttons to navigate the menus cause there’s no mouse in VR?

 

anywho...   also us who play this game are kinda IL2 cultists.... if those coming here never played the predecessors... they won’t last long... not without stubborn dedication :)

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On 12/3/2020 at 6:39 AM, pakfront said:

No way to find out what button was assigned to what.

 

+1000 !

It drives me crazy from the first day on BOS... How such a basic feature present in all others flight sims is still not available in IL-2 GB ???!!! (as well a user friendly mission editor among other things... but that's off topic)

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3 hours ago, 16th-BR_diditopgun said:

 

 

 

(as well a user friendly mission editor among other things... but that's off topic)

 

I find that to be perfectly on topic. 

 

I think this sim is an ode to excellence. The fine touches, the finesse, the intricate details, it all gets better and better. It's perfectly luscious., and at 100FPS no less. It's simply an excellent flightsim. 

 

Except for the single player content creation which is.........................................  poor. :rolleyes:

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Yes, and not only in single player. My dream is to "easily" create a multiplayer mission then host it as easily as I do with DCS (or did with former Il-2 1946).

I bought all IL-2 GB opus to support the devs team hoping they not only add more maps and more plane but bring more significant contents and major game evolutions.

But now I'm tired and my hopes almost vanished after 7 years.... That's why I have not buy battle of Normandie. 

Edited by 16th-BR_diditopgun
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3 hours ago, 16th-BR_diditopgun said:

 

+1000 !

It drives me crazy from the first day on BOS... How such a basic feature present in all others flight sims is still not available in IL-2 GB ???!!! (as well a user friendly mission editor among other things... but that's off topic)

 what? go to keybindings and it tells u what key is assigned to what. 

 

i must be misunderstanding something here

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4 hours ago, 16th-BR_diditopgun said:

 

+1000 !

It drives me crazy from the first day on BOS... How such a basic feature present in all others flight sims is still not available in IL-2 GB ???!!! 


That basic feature has been in BoX since day 1.  If you set a button that is already used a little orange box is displayed in the settings.   Just place the mouse icon over the orange box and you’ll see the conflict.  Not sure how you missed this.  It’s pretty obvious.

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You missunderstand me.

I know the orange box feature, I'm not talking about it.

I talk about pushing a button on your stick and then in the input list it automatically go to the corresponding input line and highlight it.

Because currently you can only scroll the input list by yourself and read what button name is assigned to the input. But "Joy1_b10".... sorry I don't know my >65 HOTAS buttons by heart...

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On 12/3/2020 at 12:33 PM, Mac_Messer said:

The interface is very much streamlined and accesible, much more than DCS or CloD. The keys are shown to overlap if applied and "engine, camera, gun" control sections are easy to find. The buttons and axises are easy to configure.

 

I disagree. In DCS you can just press a button and it shows what it does. In this game you can't. I just recently teached 

my friend this game, including keymapping. He said there is no way he could have done key binding on his own. It's been a couple weeks since we last flew, and next time we fly i'm sure he doesn't remember the key binds. And he can't check the key binds the way he can in DCS.

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15 minutes ago, LLv24_Sukka24 said:

 

I disagree. In DCS you can just press a button and it shows what it does. In this game you can't. I just recently teached 

my friend this game, including keymapping. He said there is no way he could have done key binding on his own. It's been a couple weeks since we last flew, and next time we fly i'm sure he doesn't remember the key binds. And he can't check the key binds the way he can in DCS.

He always can writer it down,  simple and  always work.

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