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King Tiger for Tank Crew


Belphe

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Hello,

 

I love how "Tank Crew" filled the gap for me after playing "World of Tanks" and "War Thunder" years ago. There was really nothing out there for more serious WWII tank simmers and the above mentioned games were obviously only arcade shooters. Modern era tankers enjoyed "Steel Beasts Pro PE" but if one wanted to drive e.g. a Tiger there was nothing out there that provided realism as well as good graphics. I'm very happy with "Tank Crew" and full of hope for it's future in the IL-2 family.

 

That is why I'd like to ask if there are any plans to bring more WWII tanks to the arena (King Tiger in particular!) and perhaps add more maps to enjoy those amazing machines and their power. 

 

Thanks!

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Alexander9822

Currently Tank Crew is only covering a certain battle in World War 2 which is the Battle of Prokhorovka, The battle only had certain tanks at the time which is what we have ingame. There sadly was no King Tiger. The battle of Prokhorovka was on 12 July 1943 but the King Tiger only saw combat in mid to late 1944.

If Tank Crew becomes super popular and many people buy it then the devs can think of making other Tank Battles such as the Battle of Berlin or the Invasion of Poland but until then I believe Tank Crew (Which I love very much) is going to be like Flying Circus and only be a once off thing.

Edited by Alexander9822
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LachenKrieg
1 minute ago, Alexander9822 said:

Currently Tank Crew is only covering a certain battle in World War 2 which is the Battle of Prokhorovka, The battle only had certain tanks at the time which is what we have ingame. There sadly was no King Tiger. The battle of Prokhorovka was on 12 July 1943 but the King Tiger only saw combat in mid to late 1944.

But there are different maps that cover different time periods, and they have already created a collector vehicle section. So it doesn't hurt to indicate interest in your favorite tank to the Dev team.

 

Offering a wider selection of vehicles that could be used to create different battle scenarios on the various maps would be a real good way to grow interest in the Tank Crew side of the SIM. You might also notice that the battle that took place in the area of Prokhorovka happened in the summer, but the in-game map includes the setting in different seasons, so the map could be used for both historical and non-historical scenarios.

 

The best way to get the Dev team interested in even considering adding more collector vehicles would probably be to demonstrate that the interest is there. 

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Alexander9822

Well I understand that and I get wet dreams just thinking about the King Tiger in the game I would also like to see a more powerful Russian tank such as the IS-2 or T34-85.

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It would be great. I haven't bought it yet, but I wonder if we can, or could in the future, play in the Moscu/Stalingrad/Kuban maps in career mode, that would be awesome, and considering that the battlefields are smaller maybe get some local parts of Bagration and other battles. That way they could sell maps with vehicles that will also be usable for the planes without the need to add more planes.

 

This could be awesome. 

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I know that the battle took place in 43 but it would open things up on multiplayer if we had the Sherman Firefly or T-34 85 to counter the ever popular Tigers and Panthers :)

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Roland_HUNter
7 hours ago, DD_Crash said:

I know that the battle took place in 43 but it would open things up on multiplayer if we had the Sherman Firefly or T-34 85 to counter the ever popular Tigers and Panthers :)

Yeah Firefly could be, but firefly was not on the Eastern front, and T-34/85 could only pen the tiger and panther from 500 meter. at 100 meter t-34-85 could pen around 105-115 mm against 90° armor.
Is-2 would be much better The IS-2 tank first saw combat in early 1944, equipping elite Guards Heavy Tank Regiments of the Red Army.  And that tank at 100 meter could pen around 160mm against 90° armor.

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DetCord12B

1.) The title covers Kursk/Prokhorovka. If it's done well enough with regards to sales maybe they'll do something like Bagration down the road.

 

2.) There is no such thing as a King Tiger.

 

The term King Tiger/Königstiger is considered the most mistranslated term of the war by WWII Historians and is attributed to its loose interpretation by Allied Soldiers in S2/S3 briefs following encounters on the battlefield when interrogating captured personnel. The Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf. B Tiger or 'Tiger II' were the official Wehrmacht designations, though Königstiger is also applicable as a nickname given to it by Heer forces, but it doesn't translate to King Tiger. Königstiger means Royal Bengal Tiger or Royal Tiger for short, not King. As for the Royal aspect, it is applicable given that German Zoologists refereed to the Bengal Tiger (animal) as the Royal Bengal Tiger during that time period and German forces tended to use it as a nickname as well given the prevalence of the term.

 

The King Tiger as a naming nomenclature is a myth that's been perpetuated since the end of the war. It's Tiger II or Royal Tiger if you wanna use the nick. Let's put an end to false history! 

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Blitzen

YES! ( Isn't there a poll for this somewhere? If not there should be!

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Roland_HUNter
On 12/27/2020 at 5:44 AM, DetCord12B said:

1.) The title covers Kursk/Prokhorovka. If it's done well enough with regards to sales maybe they'll do something like Bagration down the road.

 

2.) There is no such thing as a King Tiger.

 

The term King Tiger/Königstiger is considered the most mistranslated term of the war by WWII Historians and is attributed to its loose interpretation by Allied Soldiers in S2/S3 briefs following encounters on the battlefield when interrogating captured personnel. The Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf. B Tiger or 'Tiger II' were the official Wehrmacht designations, though Königstiger is also applicable as a nickname given to it by Heer forces, but it doesn't translate to King Tiger. Königstiger means Royal Bengal Tiger or Royal Tiger for short, not King. As for the Royal aspect, it is applicable given that German Zoologists refereed to the Bengal Tiger (animal) as the Royal Bengal Tiger during that time period and German forces tended to use it as a nickname as well given the prevalence of the term.

 

The King Tiger as a naming nomenclature is a myth that's been perpetuated since the end of the war. It's Tiger II or Royal Tiger if you wanna use the nick. Let's put an end to false history! 

Boi you are 100% wrong:

https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/Speer_01-12-1944_E.html

Original document for the first link:

https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/Speer_01-12-1944_D.html

 

Translated text and original document:
https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/Tiger-II_Suggestivname Königstiger_E.html

 

In 1944 november,  Speer adopted the soviet, and allies name: Kingtiger into the german concepts.

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sniperton
7 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

In 1944 november,  Speer adopted the soviet, and allies name: Kingtiger into the german concepts.

@DetCord12B's point was that Königstiger referred to Panthera tigris tigris, a tiger subspecies that translates into English as Bengal Tiger, not King Tiger.

See here:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königstiger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_tiger

https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengáli_tigris

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VO101Kurfurst

Tiger II could make a fine addition to a Balaton offensive map (spring 1945), or a Battle of the Bulge map, if there are any long term plan to include such theatres in TC or Il2.

 

Balaton / Spring awakening would be imo more interesting, given that it would allow for some very interesting and very well documented ground scenariors, and allow for the addition of late war Soviet tanks (T-34/85, IS-2, SU 100) and aircraft (Yak 3, La 7). The Bulge would allow for adding Western Allied vehicles, and we already have Bodenplatte to cover the aerial campaign.

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DetCord12B
On 1/7/2021 at 11:22 AM, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

 

This is hilarious! It's akin to posting a statement that Lincoln was a Republican and freed the slaves via the Emancipation Proclamation, only to be refereed to a historical document that states that Lincoln was a Republican and issued the Emancipation Proclamation. Nothing in said documents refutes my original post.

 

Boi? Jesus, what next, twatified dank meme's....

 

On 1/7/2021 at 6:34 PM, sniperton said:

@DetCord12B's point was that Königstiger referred to Panthera tigris tigris, a tiger subspecies that translates into English as Bengal Tiger, not King Tiger.

See here:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königstiger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_tiger

https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengáli_tigris

 

Exactly, and well posted.

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Roland_HUNter
14 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 

This is hilarious! It's akin to posting a statement that Lincoln was a Republican and freed the slaves via the Emancipation Proclamation, only to be refereed to a historical document that states that Lincoln was a Republican and issued the Emancipation Proclamation. Nothing in said documents refutes my original post.

 

Boi? Jesus, what next, twatified dank meme's....

 

 

Exactly, and well posted.

You said there was no KT name for the germans.
But there was. So. Your comment is refuted by documents.

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bzc3lk
3 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

You said there was no KT name for the germans.
 

 

What do you  mean by "KT"?

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bzc3lk
On 2/15/2021 at 7:08 AM, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Kingtiger, Königstiger

 

I'm a bit confused where you have derived "kingtiger from the supplied documents? All I can find is the term "Königstiger", which translates to Bengal Tiger not Kingtiger.

 

 

Bengal Tiger.jpg

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Cybermat47
On 2/15/2021 at 7:38 AM, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Kingtiger, Königstiger


As has already been explained, ‘Königstiger’ does not mean ‘King Tiger’. It means ‘Bengal Tiger’. Bengal Tigers are a population of Panthera tigris tigris that live on the Indian subcontinent.

 

Personally, though, I would say that the mistranslation is so common at this point that it’s an acceptable nickname for the Tiger II in the modern day - but it was never called that by the Germans in WWII, so ‘Bengal Tiger’ is a much more accurate name.

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Roland_HUNter
On 2/16/2021 at 7:17 AM, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


As has already been explained, ‘Königstiger’ does not mean ‘King Tiger’. It means ‘Bengal Tiger’. Bengal Tigers are a population of Panthera tigris tigris that live on the Indian subcontinent.

 

Personally, though, I would say that the mistranslation is so common at this point that it’s an acceptable nickname for the Tiger II in the modern day - but it was never called that by the Germans in WWII, so ‘Bengal Tiger’ is a much more accurate name.

Boooring myths...

https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/tiger_ii_04_02_1945_D.html

 

 

https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/Speer_01-12-1944_E.html
Original:
https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/Speer_01-12-1944_D.html

 

They used the KönigsTiger word.

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Cybermat47
17 hours ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

They used the KönigsTiger word.


And that word means ‘Bengal Tiger’.

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Charon
Quote

Der Königstiger (Panthera tigris tigris), auch Bengal-Tiger oder Indischer Tiger, ist eine Unterart des Tigers, die zu den Festlandsunterarten zählt.

 

If "Königstiger" means "Bengal Tiger", I wonder what Bengal-Tiger could translate to. 🤔

 

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Roland_HUNter
3 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


And that word means ‘Bengal Tiger’.

Bro...who care? Tell this to the allies WHO are started using the KingTiger word. Germans used the KönigsTiger.
Btw in German Königs mean Royalty.

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THERION
39 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Bro...who care? Tell this to the allies WHO are started using the KingTiger word. Germans used the KönigsTiger.
Btw in German Königs mean Royalty.

 

Na - no, no, no. Königs in this context is the genitive of König. "Des Königs Tiger" if you want...

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Roland_HUNter
1 hour ago, THERION said:

 

Na - no, no, no. Königs in this context is the genitive of König. "Des Königs Tiger" if you want...

Still bengal tiger: bengalischer Tiger .
So...

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ZachariasX

That is funny. 

On 2/18/2021 at 8:53 PM, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Germans used the KönigsTiger.

And the link you posted (the transription of the speech in German) says that the Allies would refer to the Tiger II as „Königstiger“, that in itself is a backtranslation of „King Tiger“ and the Germans were fond enough to use it at a point in time that is (most likely) after the war.

 

2 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

Was zum teufel...

Yeah.

 

I can add to the animal bontany eleborated above that „Königstiger“ indeed exists as a colloquial designation for the bengal tiger, but this I’d say probably more among people who really can‘t make much from the term „bengal“. As Therion pointed out, this wording is agaist German sentence logic.

 

It is the little „s“ in Königstiger that is the giveaway that something went wrong here. It on one side makes the conjunction easier to pronounce and make it less odd. On the other hand, that injected „s“ does not make the tiger the king, but as Therion said, it makes the tiger belong to the king.

 

Thus, even in German there was fertile soil for a nonsense designation like this and the problem in doing so is not immediately apparent to the „user“.

 

That German language has no problem in adding some sort of royal connotation to an animal some biologist happened to come across, is for instance shown in the emperor penguin (Aptenodytes forsteri), that in German is called Kaiserpinguin as well. Note that there‘s no „s“ between Kaiser and pinguin. That big penguin IS the emperor (of penguins).

 

This should be enough to place the „Königstiger“ in the same shelf as the „Gabelschwanzteufel“, another American expression (actually, a Lockheed add), that somehow found its way into popular culture, especially among people who don‘t speak the language or are not informed about the topic.

 

More of the same (probably) here:

image.png.1579865cf552603dae0dd66dc3d7b807.png

 

 

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Yogiflight

I really don't understand the excitement about that. 'Königstiger' is a very familiar term for the 'Tiger II'. Like 'Jagdpanzer Hetzer' for the 'Jagdpanzer 38(t)'. 'Hetzer' was only a nickname given by the soldiers. It never had this name officially.

The 'Tiger II' is called 'Königstiger' because it is the king among the 'Tiger' family with its imposing strength. I would say, it is better known as 'Königstiger' than as 'Tiger II'.

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ZachariasX
34 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I really don't understand the excitement about that.

The excitement is about the other side naming your pet ride and you go along with this after the fact, especially they make a spelling error when doing so. This I find funny. And then most are thinking that "it was always named that way". And that was not the case. You couldn't place a "Königstiger" on order back then. It is just another casual case of revisionism.

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Roland_HUNter
9 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

Was zum teufel...

 

The correct translation is available for everyone to see, including the historical context, and RFK nomenclature. Either this guy is some kinda moron or is trolling everyone in this thread. I'm gonna go with a troll, simply because there isn't any excuse in continuing the discussion whence the historical precedence has long been set, even with the native German speakers that have chimed in. It has to be troll, no one is this pig-headed and or stupid. 

So original reports = Troll. O k. To be persistent don't gonna make u right.
And if something is said by more ppl, doesn't mean they are right.

 
 
6 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

And the link you posted (the transription of the speech in German) says that the Allies would refer to the Tiger II as „Königstiger“, that in itself is a backtranslation of „King Tiger“ and the Germans were fond enough to use it at a point in time that is (most likely) after the war.

"The Germans had high hopes for the design of their new 'Tiger B' or 'Königstiger' battle tank, as they called it. Long before it was put into service, German propaganda manipulated its soldiers, praising their invulnerability and announcing that the appearance of this battle tank was going to influence the course of this war. The hopes placed on him have not been fulfilled. The 'hideous technique' in which the Germans had placed so much hope has not only not influenced the course of the war but in the first combats against our artillery and armored troops it has been defeated, just like the simple 'Tiger' and 'Panther '. "

https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/tiger_ii_04_02_1945_D.html

"

The armored vehicles you have seen, the Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther, are without question vehicles that will command great respect from our enemies. In fact, first the Russians and now the English, have assumed the name of Königstiger for the Tiger II, a battle tank that they already knew from previous operations, on their own initiative, a name that we have now assumed, since it is effectively a tank. royal combat. Not long ago the 'Times' wrote about a duel between its most powerful anti-tank gun, the 9.2 cm Pak, really of a very respectable power, the Sherman tank and our Königstiger, as well as that for very "

https://ag53gqdegnlrcb7vmmwpeuxigi--www-panzer-elmito-org.translate.goog/tanques/tiger_ii/informes/Speer_01-12-1944_D.html
 

Still: allies started calling it KingTiger, germans adopted it. So the original answer for the original question: did they used this word? is: They used KönigsTiger word.

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ZachariasX
23 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Still: allies started calling it KingTiger, germans adopted it.

The Allies also called about any tank they came across "Tiger", hence they could hardly downgrade a heavier tank variant of the PzKpfw VI to just "Tiger". It's also better news for you if you destroy awesome weaponry instead of some kids next to a gun (even if they can kill you if you let them).

 

And my point was just that the Germans actually had the Allies name their ride that in German language actually is an oddity, although it sounds impressive. And neither do those sources state that the German troops at the time would refer to the Tiger-B as "Königstiger" other than very informally at best. If Informally counts then we have

 

Grumman TBF "Turkey"

Consolidated B-24 "Lib" (How offensive can that be, huh? If they only knew.)

Curtiss SB2C "Son-of-a-Bitch Second Class"

 

See anyone listing these aircraft under these names?

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