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There is always many people asking what is the best PC configuration to play IL-2 in VR, where the requirements are higher than in a monitor, specially for the CPU side.

Based on the lastest tests and facts of all of you, I would like to use this thread to define what would be the ideal combination of CPU/RAM/Mobo/GPU/PSU to get maximum performance in IL-2 VR.

Other games or applications will not be taken in consideration. Just IL-2 VR.

 

I would propose just two configurations: The first with some budget constraint (or less complexity of tunning) but worth the money. The second with no budget limitations at all.

My idea is to propose more than one option for MoBos and RAM, but based in tested configurations and the SYN_Vander Benchmark.

 

If your headset is G2 check this list for Mobos: https://airtable.com/shrhQQFoy4SQKIrjZ/tblvehlveGY2s7cu5

 

TIER 1 PC:

CPU:

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X  (EU price 325€)

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X  (EU price 475€)

 

RAM:

2x16GB 3600 CL16  (Dual Rank):

G.Skill Trident Z 2x16GB 3600 CL16-16-16-36. 1.35v. (F4-3600C16D-32GTZR)

G.Skill Trident Z Neo 2x16GB 3600 CL16-16-16-36.  1.35v. (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN)

 

MoBo:

MSI B550 Gaming Carbon

ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS

 

Other Mobos not tested in benchmark but good:

MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk

Asus ROG Strix B550 F-Gaming

 

CPU Cooler: Good Aircooler or Liquid AIO 240mm

PSU: Gold 750W

 

GPU: (still don´t know which is better)

Nvidia RTX 3080

Nvidia RTX 2080Ti

 

The AMD 6800 and 6800XT cards are showing some performance issues with IL-2 (both in monitor and VR). So better to avoid them until it is solved.

 

 

TIER 2 PC:

CPU:

AMD Ryzen 9 5900X  (EU price 600€)

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X  (EU price 850€)

 

RAM:

G.Skill Trident Z 2x16GB 3600 CL14-15-15-35.  1.45v

G.Skill Trident Z 2x16GB 3600 CL16-16-16-36.  1.35v

G.Skill Trident Z 2x16GB 3800 CL14-16-16-36.  1.5v

 

MoBo (check yourself if they are problematic with the Reverb G2 in the link above):

MSI X570 Tomahawk  (EU price 215€)

MSI PRESTIGE X570 Creation

Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero

 

CPU Cooler: Liquid AIO 360mm

PSU: Gold 850W

 

GPU: 

Nvidia RTX 3080/3090

 

 

 

Edited by chiliwili69
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Very good summary.

 

The 2x16GB RAM's precise name is: F4-3600C16D-32GTZN. It is not just larger, it gives quite a performance boost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGux0pANft0 How times change.

 

It is Samsung B-Die and clocks up to 4000MHz with comparatively tight timings, but that's a manual thing. Important is that it is Dual Ranked RAM, and the sub-timings are tight. I think I can get it even tighter. I may do so after the next BIOS update rolled out.

 

 

Edit: I have seen other comparisons, especially regarding VR games, which I haven't saved the link to. I might dig it out during the week if I remember. Dual Rank RAM gave much less and weaker 0.1% and 1% framedips, and an overall performance increase of 5 to 10% average performance.

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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41 minutes ago, Koziolek said:

what is the gain of 5800x vs 5600x ?

very small for stock speed. IT depends on many factor (RAM speed, timmings, dual rank , cooling, etc).

But right now in our table the 5600X is 4 fps faster than 5800X. Why? I really don´t know.

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That's good to know, especially if 5800x is more than 100 EUR more expensive :)

28 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

But right now in our table the 5600X is 4 fps faster than 5800X. Why? I really don´t know.

Is this in VR only or in 2D too?

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12 hours ago, Koziolek said:

That's good to know, especially if 5800x is more than 100 EUR more expensive :)

 

The speed difference is probably due to other reasons. Ryzens are very susceptible to RAM frequency, timings, Dual Rank using the whole bus, and fitting memory topology, as far as I know.

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I ordered a 5600X (It should arrive in 10 days...) and for Mobo (following my own recomendations) I ordered the Gigabyte Aorus B550 Pro.

 

Now is the turn for RAM. I went to the page of G-Skill webpage and search for my Mobo, select 2x8Gb and then the highest freq available which is 3600MHz. Then went to the lowest CL which is 16.

 

The list reduced to 8 candidates, all of them at 1.35 v and timings 16-16-16-36.

https://www.gskill.com/configurator?page=1&cls=1529635169&manufacturer=1524715126&chipset=1603951212&model=1603952231&adSearch2=Capacity§16GB (8GBx2),Tested_Speed§3600MHz,Tested_Latency§16-16-16-36,

 

Untitled.thumb.png.1757a6706d7b43abc1502b053bbd011e.png

 

The Trident Z Neo (F4-3600C16D-16GTZN) is just 100$ but the Trident Z Royal is 250$.  All freq, CL, voltage and timmings are identical.

 

Question is why the Royal is more expensive? 

 

I also saw  a video that tested diferent freqs and CLs in the new Ryzen Zen3 and there is no diference. Seem they are insensitive.

 

 

So, then. What I should buy?

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To make things more dificult is seems that 4X8Gb is better than 2x16Gb. They tested in a number of games with the 5600X, obiously not IL-2:

 

In addition to the 2 vs 4 stick, it seems that the 4x8GB of 3200 CL14 (Trident Z Neo price 360€) is overall a bit better than 4x8Gb of 3600 CL16 (Trident Z Neo price 325€).

But 2x16Gb of 3600 CL16 (Trident Z Neo is just 200€)

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I was humming and ha-ing over getting 2 x sticks of 16GB or adding 2 x extra 8GB sticks. My 3900X enjoyed having 4 strangely enough after about the 4th bios update on a Crosshair VII. 

 

4 x 8GB sticks (I was naughty and mixed Team Group 3200 C14s with GSkill TridentZ 3200 C14s

 

So ill get another couple of 8s 🙂

 

aidacachemem040420.png (2).jpg

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3 minutes ago, robbiec said:

My 3900X

 

But the video about the sticks was for Zen3. I don´t know if this also works for Zen2.

To make decission even more dificult it seems that G-Skill is launching right now a new ultra speed line for the Ryzens:

https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1604585385/G.SKILL-Updates-Trident-Z-Neo-DDR4-Specs-Up-To-DDR4-4000-CL16-16GBx2-for-AMD-Ryzen-5000-CPUs

Untitled.png.b7393bfffaa277dcd09a4b49514e7c76.png

 

This is a higher voltage, not 1.35v. I wonder if the Gigabyte Aorus B550 Pro  will be able to handle the 3600 CL14. 

15 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

But the video about the sticks was for Zen3. I don´t know if this also works for Zen2

It seems also works for Zen2...

https://www.techspot.com/article/2140-ryzen-5000-memory-performance/

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35 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

To make decission even more dificult it seems that G-Skill is launching right now a new ultra speed line for the Ryzens:

https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1604585385/G.SKILL-Updates-Trident-Z-Neo-DDR4-Specs-Up-To-DDR4-4000-CL16-16GBx2-for-AMD-Ryzen-5000-CPUs

Untitled.png.b7393bfffaa277dcd09a4b49514e7c76.png

 

Nice find. Just ordered a couple of 8GB B-Die based sticks. My 2 are running 3600 C15 at the mo so I'll put 1.45 - 1.5 through them and see what happens 😛

I find with GSkill, a: they cost a lot and b: whatever they announce takes 6 months to get to market (well in the EU at least) but they are quality gear, no doubt. So we'll have a load of reviews, a load of benchers and a load of tech tubers telling us that they are great but you won't be able to find at non outrageous pricing. 

Edited by robbiec
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2 hours ago, whisky_actual said:

I was looking at a 3200 vs. 3600 CL16 kit of Ripjaws (F4-3200C16D-32GVK vs. F4-3600C16D-32GVKC) and was wondering if the bump in Hertz would justify the 50$ premium. The 3600 kit is hard to get here in Canada compared to the 3200.

Make sure your motherboard can go up that high before you consider.

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One thing you can take to the bank, the best PC for IL-2 VR will in a few short months no longer be the best.

But it is nice to have at the time.

;)

 

I shudder to think how much VR has cost me over the last 3.5 years...

Edited by dburne
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9 hours ago, Pinello said:

The other german guy. Benchmarking 6800xt against 3080/3090 with cpu 5950. Not flight sim/VR, but racing sim/tripple monitor:

the tube

 

That's pretty interesting. I was reading a thread on Reddit where they noted that NVidia is hacking DX11 games to be multi-threaded at the driver level. Basically a lot of games have a single render/physics/game loop thread and then make DX11 calls on that thread. To get them to perform well, NVidia takes those single threaded DirectX calls and spreads them out (somehow) over multiple threads. This gets an NVidia card better results, sometimes startlingly so, in some DX11 titles. But the reverse can also be true -- a well-threaded DX11 title can run slower on an NVidia card because these hacks get in the way.

 

What we really need is for all the simulators to rewrite on Vulkan, then we'd really see the performance jump.

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It's not that bad.  You just need any CPU from the last 4 years that will overclock to 5ghz, nice ram sticks for 120 or so and a 1080ti or better.  You can upgrade from there if you want nice looking clouds, draw distance, and MSAA.  It is nice to have but not needed.  I played at pretty low settings for a while it is good enough.

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7 hours ago, dburne said:

One thing you can take to the bank, the best PC for IL-2 VR will in a few short months no longer be the best.

But it is nice to have at the time.

;)

 

I shudder to think how much VR has cost me over the last 3.5 years...

 

True, though once I'm able to run a solid 60+fps at Max view distance, on a 2160x2160x2 headset, I'm probably done with upgrading for a few more years. Il-2, DCS and FS2020 are the only things that hammer my computer, and I figure the next big innovation in all three will be going multi-core.

 

My local Microcenter has a bunch of 5800X's in stock. I sort of wanted to go big and get a 5950X, so I (in theory) won't need to upgrade for a long time, but the 5800X is slightly better now, and definitely cheaper. I'm figuring really broad multi-core support is going to hit once Intel launches their Alder Lake platform, and having a ton of fairly high performance cores should still be solid even in that environment. But, we will likely also see AAA gaming more constrained by the consoles by that point too. 

 

I'll probably wait until the end of year bills are paid off, and get one or the other over the winter break, but definitely on the fence. 

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23 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

To make things more dificult is seems that 4X8Gb is better than 2x16Gb. They tested in a number of games with the 5600X, obiously not IL-2:

[Youtube video of Hardware Jesus]

In addition to the 2 vs 4 stick, it seems that the 4x8GB of 3200 CL14 (Trident Z Neo price 360€) is overall a bit better than 4x8Gb of 3600 CL16 (Trident Z Neo price 325€).

But 2x16Gb of 3600 CL16 (Trident Z Neo is just 200€)

 

What they say in the video is a false lead. They later added the reason I mentioned as the first comment stickied to the video: It's about Dual Rank. Go look at their stickied comment please. You need to check which topology your mainboard has, and then you can go either for 2x16GB (daisy chain) or 4x8GB (t-topology). Please do not believe YouTubers without remaining critical. Believe Engineers, not formerly unemployed video-creators/gamers that found a (good) way to make a living.

 

 

@chiliwili69 I checked the B550 Aorus Pro for you. It's daisy chain / fly-by regarding memory topology. Yours is best served with 2x16GB sticks in DIMM 2 and 4. My original RAM recommendation stands: The RAM that I recommended in the second post of this thread is your best bet. It goes up to 3800MHz (or higher) to match your 5600X's likely FLCK of 1900MHz, while being able to keep tight primary and secondary timings. It is able to go up to 1.45V - 1.5V:

 

It is Samsung B-Die, 100%, and basically what they are rebranding right now to sell as this for new Ryzen owners (with added premium of course)

image.thumb.png.08a2891cbb8c16cbb10e620fed3d6ba8.png

 

Take it, or leave it, but you know, if you slam 4x8GB in there you'll have a harder time bringing them up to frequency. The latency will be larger as well and you'll be torturing your memory controller. I like your board, it definitely has nice voltage regulation from what I read. Here's a good source

 

May ask yourself, what is the benefit of all this?

Not just slightly 5-10% better performance... especially if you have cleared that bottleneck already even if it was suboptimal setup regarding RAM. Doing it right assaults and flattens 0.1% and 1% dips in framerate as well. This is where it shines the most in my honest opinion. And well, to be ready for MSFS2020 in VR and 2D, if that interests you too. And because things need to be done in a right way. :)

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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52 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

What they say in the video is a false lead.

 

They later added the reason I mentioned as the first comment stickied to the video: It's about Dual Rank. Go look at their stickied comment. You need to check which topology your mainboard has, and then you can go either for 2x16GB (daisy chain) or 4x8GB (t-topology).

 

Hey, Thanks so much. I was already looking for 4x8Gb memory. So this clarification arrives in the right time. In the video comments it is explained quite well by Mirsad Redzovic.

Ideally I would want to test both configurations with IL-2:  2x16GB dual rank modules and 4x8Gb single rank modules in my future B550 Mobo. 

 

It is a pitty that it doesn´t exist 8Gb dual ranked modules. Since my idea was to put just only 2x8Gb, since 16Gb is enough for IL-2. The curious thing is that Gallahand in the Benchmark has just 2x8Gb (no dual rank) and is having better performance than the other 5800X with dual rank.

 

So it seems that there is not too many other options then for 2x16GB. 

The model you recomended (F4-3600C16D-32GTZN) is in the G.Skill QVL of my future Gigabyte Aorus B550 Pro Mobo.

But I was wondering if this two options, which are not qualified for the B550 Mobo, would work:

 

F4-3600C14D-32GTZN

or 

F4-3800C14D-32GTZN

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Please do not believe YouTubers without remaining critical. Believe Engineers, not formerly unemployed video-creators/gamers that found a (good) way to make a living.

 

I'm not defending the mistake they made, but Steve Burke is a former hardware tester / QA guy turned YouTuber, and their videos tend to be the most useful and scientific of the bunch. He's not that MRTV guy...

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I studied the potential options of RAM and made a table:

1768481865_RAMoptions.thumb.png.bf1daaea4e0f52fb575492506f95afbb.png

 

If I want the dual rank thing (4 ranks) it seems that I have to go to 2x16G. 

But I am not sure if 4 sticks of single rank (single side) is also making 4 ranks. So, also studying the 4x8Gb option.

Perhaps will buy both and sell the one which deliver less.

 

I was tempted to buy the ones which are not qualified by G.skill for my Mobo, but I read some comments of other people who were having problems with those.

 

I think one of the advantages of X570 Mobos over B550 is that they can also go to a broader range of RAMs.

 

I believe that the Trident Z is as good as the Trident Z Neo, is it only marketing right?

The current problem now is the lack of stock of them.

Edited by chiliwili69
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2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I studied the potential options of RAM and made a table:

1768481865_RAMoptions.thumb.png.bf1daaea4e0f52fb575492506f95afbb.png

 

If I want the dual rank thing (4 ranks) it seems that I have to go to 2x16G. 

But I am not sure if 4 sticks of single rank (single side) is also making 4 ranks. So, also studying the 4x8Gb option.

Perhaps will buy both and sell the one which deliver less.

 

I was tempted to buy the ones which are not qualified by G.skill for my Mobo, but I read some comments of other people who were having problems with those.

 

I think one of the advantages of X570 Mobos over B550 is that they can also go to a broader range of RAMs.

 

I believe that the Trident Z is as good as the Trident Z Neo, is it only marketing right?

The current problem now is the lack of stock of them.

One full kit of 4 sticks will indeed also give you dual rank, but your motherboard does not have a T-topology for your memory. Yours is daisy-chained/fly-by topology. I don't want to dive into details as that would take a while, but the TLDR is that you'd add latency by going 4x8 over 2x16, which would nullify and thus waste the advantage. Yours addresses dimm 1 then 2 serially, and 3 then 4 are serially but in Parallelität to the first chain. So best put 2 sticks in 2 and 4, while using the full bus and thus bandwidth of the memory controller.

 

Your board is best with 2x16GB. I've said this the third time now... only because I respect your efforts so much for this community. It wouldn't be the same without your efforts. There's a lot of information to read out there, and I understand it may take up way too much time ;-)

Best to look for Samsung B-Dies. They go up to any frequency if you put 1.5V towards them ;-)

It's indeed marketing, and QVL lists are rarely complete. The XMPs are variables, but what is inside the modules is about the memory chips, built by whom, and what charge. It's good if you put part of a weekend into Ram overclocking, it's real fun and not too hard. I used Ryzen DRAM calculator as a starting point. Google for Samsung B-Die Finder or similar, don't have the link on the mobile rn. GL :)

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

One full kit of 4 sticks will indeed also give you dual rank, but your motherboard does not have a T-topology for your memory. Yours is daisy-chained/fly-by topology. I don't want to dive into details as that would take a while, but the TLDR is that you'd add latency by going 4x8 over 2x16, which would nullify and thus waste the advantage. Yours addresses dimm 1 then 2 serially, and 3 then 4 are serially but in Parallelität to the first chain. So best put 2 sticks in 2 and 4, while using the full bus and thus bandwidth of the memory controller.

 

Your board is best with 2x16GB. I've said this the third time now... only because I respect your efforts so much for this community. It wouldn't be the same without your efforts. There's a lot of information to read out there, and I understand it may take up way too much time 😉

Best to look for Samsung B-Dies. They go up to any frequency if you put 1.5V towards them 😉

It's indeed marketing, and QVL lists are rarely complete. The XMPs are variables, but what is inside the modules is about the memory chips, built by whom, and what charge. It's good if you put part of a weekend into Ram overclocking, it's real fun and not too hard. I used Ryzen DRAM calculator as a starting point. Google for Samsung B-Die Finder or similar, don't have the link on the mobile rn. GL :)


Is this four-sticks issue an AMD mobo thing or does it go for intel boards too? :)

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16 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Your board is best with 2x16GB. I've said this the third time now... only because I respect your efforts so much for this community. It wouldn't be the same without your efforts. There's a lot of information to read out there, and I understand it may take up way too much time 😉

Best to look for Samsung B-Dies. They go up to any frequency if you put 1.5V towards them 😉

It's indeed marketing, and QVL lists are rarely complete. The XMPs are variables, but what is inside the modules is about the memory chips, built by whom, and what charge. It's good if you put part of a weekend into Ram overclocking, it's real fun and not too hard. I used Ryzen DRAM calculator as a starting point. Google for Samsung B-Die Finder or similar, don't have the link on the mobile rn. GL :)

 

Fenris, thank you so much in guiding me into the right direction. I know it was the third time you said but I am also an skeptic guy of many things (specially Homeopahty, Fengshui, and the like). Sometimes, with all the youtubers and tons of info of internet, it seems that the OC is more an art than an exact science and the end I prefer to test things by myself.

Going to the empirical way has a cost, but also saves time of digging into details. Before playing IL-2 VR I was never been worried about CPU OC, and even less RAM OC or GPU OC. Only for RAM OC, specially for Ryzen, there are many test done and people really experiment a lot. I know that if I study that matter I will master on it. But time has to be optimized and it might not be worth for me. I really appreciate your inputs since it saves precious time from me.

 

So I will try the 2x16Gb options of 3600, with CL16 (in QVL) and CL14 (out of QVL). And let´s see what happens.

 

Edited:

Just ordered the models marked in darker green:

Untitled.thumb.png.809fe408f5852164b090594d6ec611a1.png

Edited by chiliwili69
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On 12/4/2020 at 12:05 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Google for Samsung B-Die Finder or similar, don't have the link on the mobile rn

 

I think you referred to this page: https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/

 

I search for the F4-3600C16D-32GTZR and it is Samsung B-Die:

RAM1.png.17c7a2060a8243ac8c6ad4ef29d50295.png

 

I searched for the other model F4-3600C14D-32GTRGB and it is not in the database, it could be Samsung or other. It runs at 1.45v. Will see then.

 

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Top, that's it! The last one you quoted in the last sentence is too new, might not be in the DB yet! :) 

 

Please test your memory thoroughly too!

 

 

Btw, to control the RGB lights, do not install G.Skill's software, it does not work with Zen3:

Spoiler

 

Do not install it, it grabs certain things in the Registry and is ultra-hard to remove. Please mark my words and do not even try it once.

 

Uninstall all RGB Software, including things like Dragon Center from MSI. Then install Asus' Armory Crate instead, restart cleanly, and set the color of your G.Skill RGB RAM using an MSI-Motherboard on an AMD-CPU with the Asus Software. Yep! Restart once. Then turn PC off, a few minutes, cold start. Check if the color was properly written into the RAM, and if it is, uninstall Armory Crate. Then you can reinstall your other Software.

 

 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

Finally the 5600X arrived today! 

I have in front of me a weekend to upgrade my PC, installations and testing!

Let´s see how it goes.

I have just got all components of the Tier1 PC:

 

 

 

:good:

Congrats!

I know you have been looking forward to that for a while now, have fun and enjoy!

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Today I played IL-2 the first time with my new rig. I had the luck to get a Ryzen 5900x and a RTX 3090 Vison OC. For a detailed specification take a look at my signature.

Always steady 80 FPS (limit) with my Rift S and 120% SS, all set as high as possible with MSAA 4x.

 

20201212_162256.jpg

Edited by MontanaZh
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1 hour ago, MontanaZh said:

Today I played IL-2 the first time with my new rig. I had the luck to get a Ryzen 5900x and a RTX 3090 Vison OC. For a detailed specification take a look at my signature.

Always steady 80 FPS (limit) with my Rift S and 120% SS, all set as high as possible with MSAA 4x.

 

20201212_162256.jpg

 

:good:

 

Very nice congrats!

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Well, everything went well finally on my PC upgrade. Some quick benchmark results in the SYN_Vander thread.

 

I entered in panic mode when the brakets and fixings of the AIO pump were not the same than the Intel motherboard!!!  🥵🥵🥵

But looking into the old box of my old motherboard I found a plastic bag labeled "AMD"!!! it was the brakets for the AMD CPUs of the NZXT kraken x-52 !!

All Win10 new install went well (How many new things I said "no" "no" "no", skip. skip, during that process!!!) and my digital windows 10 Home license was reused and activated.

Here a picture (a bit more dusty that the beauty of above  😉 )

upgradePC.thumb.jpg.0476c5f11204553ee16c93a04447ede1.jpg

 

I am not very fan of leds, but they came with the RAM. But my kids love that!:

 

night.thumb.jpg.6184b27110067c0e95a8dd4555b9693b.jpg

 

 

 

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