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SYN_Vander BENCHMARK v6 to measure IL-2 performance in monitor & VR


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Man, Gigabyte are crap at software.  ASUS and MSI are on Agesa 1.1.9.0 and are about to release 1.2.0.0.....and Gigabyte just released a new version of AGESA 1.1.0.0 today. :dash:

 

Two generations of Bios behind....:fool:  

   Their hardware is top notch, but their software department should be sent to gulag.

I'll go back to ASUS for my next build. 

Edited by Jaws2002
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2 hours ago, Voyager said:

@dburne You can check what chips are on the memories module using CPU-Z. What I would was both my Ripjaws V 3600 16-19-19-38 kit, and the TridentZ Neo 3600 16-16-16-32 kit I got were Hynix CJK dies. Apparently G.Skill switched some of the TridentZ Neo kits over to Hynix parts a while ago, so it's hit or miss. 

 

I returned the Trident memory and did a bunch of tweaking on the memory timings, but even getting it up to 3900-16-16 did not reduce my memory latency below about 63ns and didn't have any reliable impact on my frame rate, so I just resent everything back to the XMP profile. No point upvolting the ram for nothing really. 

 

Yeah that is what I figured was likely, kind of like overclocking the memory on a GPU - just not that much benefit.

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1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

Man, Gigabyte are crap at software.  ASUS and MSI are on Agesa 1.1.9.0 and are about to release 1.2.0.0.....and Gigabyte just released a new version of AGESA 1.1.0.0 today. :dash:

 

Two generations of Bios behind....:fool:  

   Their hardware is top notch, but their software department should be sent to gulag.

I'll go back to ASUS for my next build. 

 

Exactly. Same experience with a gigabyte 3070 for a family member. Atrociously horrific incompatible broadware overtaking software.

 

Or tldr "the story of how gigabyte'a fusion 2.0 killed an OS beyond repair when it met Razer Synapse in the registry".

 

Avoid Gigabyte if you can.

 

Nowadays, I'd you get an MSI card, get an MSI Mobo. If you go Asus, you go Asus.

 

Or stay diverse and have rainbow colours shoved down your throat via default RGB...if you fancy that.

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30 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Or stay diverse and have rainbow colours shoved down your throat via default RGB...if you fancy that.

 

 

😆

 

I know exactly what you mean. Gigabyte RGB fusion still can't control the memory RGB properly on my board. It could, if I'd let it start with the OS, but then it interferes with the USBs.:fool:

Edited by Jaws2002
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On 1/19/2021 at 12:57 AM, Alonzo said:

Now I have no excuse,

 

Well, at least you have some numbers to justify the investment at the home Financial Officer... 😉

On 1/19/2021 at 5:13 PM, =VARP=Ribbon said:

no xmp profile)

32GB 3200MHz corsair lpx

 

Thank you for reporting your test with the new 3080 in VR.

You say you don´t use the XMP profile of the RAM. What is the exact model of your RAM? perhaps you could activate an XMP profile which would give you extra fps.

On 1/19/2021 at 7:12 PM, thermoregulator said:

I have just tried to benchmark 6800xt on

 

Many thanks for this test.

It is the second 6800XT in the table and both shows very bad numbers in the GPU Test. But it seems that also affects the CPU Test.

Apparently that card works ok with other games, sometimes (25% of cases) above the 3080. So, I think that the problem is with IL-2.

Perhaps someone should rise this topic to the IL-2 support/bug thread.

2 cases out of 2. Starts to be suspicious.

Edited by chiliwili69
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31 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

 

Many thanks for this test.

It is the second 6800XT in the table and both shows very bad numbers in the GPU Test. But it seems that also affects the CPU Test.

Apparently that card works ok with other games, sometimes (25% of cases) above the 3080. So, I think that the problem is with IL-2.

Perhaps someone should rise this topic to the IL-2 support/bug thread.

2 cases out of 2. Starts to be suspicious.

 

Maybe the AMD cards are not as good as original thought, at least for flight sims. I saw a comparison over on the MSFS forums on the 6900xt versus RTX3090.

It also fell somewhat behind the Nvidia offering in MSFS 2020.

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8 hours ago, thermoregulator said:

Some other games run just fine, so this  low performance issue seems to be il2 related

This is what I was afraid of. It seems a IL-2 problem with the new 6800XT cards.

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1 minute ago, dburne said:

 

Maybe the AMD cards are not as good as original thought, at least for flight sims. I saw a comparison over on the MSFS forums on the 6900xt versus RTX3090.

It also fell somewhat behind the Nvidia offering in MSFS 2020.

 

 

There's a thread in DCS forum about this topic and this latest generation AMD cards outperform the NVidia offerings. 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/254028-amd-rx-6800xt-vs-nvidia-rtx-3080/

 

in FS2020 is the other way around, but only at higher resolution and the difference is nowhere near as big as in Il-2. I think Il-2 has not been updated to take into consideration this new AMD cards.

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3 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

This is what I was afraid of. It seems a IL-2 problem with the new 6800XT cards.

 

So if I want a card that plays both IL2 and the jet simulator well (it needs VRAM) then I'm looking at a 3090 24GB rather than the AMD cards? 😞

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4 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

 

There's a thread in DCS forum about this topic and this latest generation AMD cards outperform the NVidia offerings. 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/254028-amd-rx-6800xt-vs-nvidia-rtx-3080/

 

in FS2020 is the other way around, but only at higher resolution and the difference is nowhere near as big as in Il-2. I think Il-2 has not been updated to take into consideration this new AMD cards.

 

The one I saw over on their forums was a comparison between the two in VR.

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29 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Maybe the AMD cards are not as good as original thought, at least for flight sims. I saw a comparison over on the MSFS forums on the 6900xt versus RTX3090.

It also fell somewhat behind the Nvidia offering in MSFS 2020.

 

If you take a look at the few 5700 tests in the roster, the 6800 XT is performing worse, which simply should not be happening given that the 6800 XT has both more and faster compute units than the 5700 XT.

 

To me that says there is something specific that IL-2 does that breaks on the 6000 series. I wonder if it does something unusual that causes cache thrashing? 

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5 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Yeah that is what I figured was likely, kind of like overclocking the memory on a GPU - just not that much benefit.

 

7 hours ago, Voyager said:

@dburne You can check what chips are on the memories module using CPU-Z. What I would was both my Ripjaws V 3600 16-19-19-38 kit, and the TridentZ Neo 3600 16-16-16-32 kit I got were Hynix CJK dies. Apparently G.Skill switched some of the TridentZ Neo kits over to Hynix parts a while ago, so it's hit or miss. 

 

I returned the Trident memory and did a bunch of tweaking on the memory timings, but even getting it up to 3900-16-16 did not reduce my memory latency below about 63ns and didn't have any reliable impact on my frame rate, so I just resent everything back to the XMP profile. No point upvolting the ram for nothing really. 

Hynix CJR/DJR's aren't the best for overclocking, but you can definitely gain some free performance OCing it, especially its frequency can be raised easily. Tightening the timings seems to be difficult though. On the other hand, dburne's 14 CL b-dies are generally considered great for overclocking, and I doubt you can get significantly better kits than those. If I remmember correctly, WalterScott runs similar RAM on 4000 Mhz, CL 14. 

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19 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Well, at least you have some numbers to justify the investment at the home Financial Officer... 😉

 

Thank you for reporting your test with the new 3080 in VR.

You say you don´t use the XMP profile of the RAM. What is the exact model of your RAM? perhaps you could activate an XMP profile which would give you extra fps.

 

Many thanks for this test.

It is the second 6800XT in the table and both shows very bad numbers in the GPU Test. But it seems that also affects the CPU Test.

Apparently that card works ok with other games, sometimes (25% of cases) above the 3080. So, I think that the problem is with IL-2.

Perhaps someone should rise this topic to the IL-2 support/bug thread.

2 cases out of 2. Starts to be suspicious.

Corsair vengeance lpx 2x16GB 3200MHz C16 XMP 2.0 high performance....i just enabled xmp in bios.

 

Edited by =VARP=Ribbon
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17 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I just bought some G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZN  3600-16-16-16-36 that the b-die finder claims are b-die. They also say Ryzen on them and I think they are the same as Fenris' kit. Can anyone confirm if I got the right thing?

 

https://www.newegg.ca/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232860?Item=N82E16820232860

 

Just saw the Discord message, yes it's the right thing!! :biggrin:

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12 hours ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Im building a new PC and have one question. Should I bother to manually OC i5 10600k (with proper cooler) or there is no benefit of doing this for IL2 MP?


It's always good to liberate more power from a CPU but in MP it's the host PC doing all/most of the AI grunt, and it's the AI that hits the CPU the hardest.

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2 hours ago, JG51-Hetzer said:


It's always good to liberate more power from a CPU but in MP it's the host PC doing all/most of the AI grunt, and it's the AI that hits the CPU the hardest.

Somewhere on this boards I red that IL2 is alot of CPU hungry (spec in MP) and every Ghz counts as well as speed of RAM. Anyways since Im buying a good 490 mobo and unlocked CPU I would go with good cooler to and I think its better to raise the base clock than to leave it stock and to let the turbo deal with it (turbo can be problematic, vene more so it is not stable always and rasies the cores unevenly).

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19 hours ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Im building a new PC and have one question. Should I bother to manually OC i5 10600k (with proper cooler) or there is no benefit of doing this for IL2 MP?

Intel chips with that end with a K are unlocked and should be OC'd.   Make sure your cooling can handle it.

 

I recommend reading through this. Very informative and good tips.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq/cpu-overclocking-guide-and-tutorial-for-beginners.3347428/

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10 hours ago, JG51-Hetzer said:

It's always good to liberate more power from a CPU but in MP it's the host PC doing all/most of the AI grunt, and it's the AI that hits the CPU the hardest.

 

Not true at all. Multiplayer is very taxing. I know you're trying to be helpful, but you're just plain wrong in this case.

 

23 hours ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Im building a new PC and have one question. Should I bother to manually OC i5 10600k (with proper cooler) or there is no benefit of doing this for IL2 MP?

 

Yes, you should overclock as high as you can for multiplayer. Get a good cooler and make sure you follow an overclocking guide. "Auto" overclock often uses a crapload of voltage which can make your chip run very hot. Manual overclock is almost always better, certainly on an Intel chip.

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1 hour ago, Alonzo said:

 

Not true at all. Multiplayer is very taxing. I know you're trying to be helpful, but you're just plain wrong in this case.

 

 

Yes, you should overclock as high as you can for multiplayer. Get a good cooler and make sure you follow an overclocking guide. "Auto" overclock often uses a crapload of voltage which can make your chip run very hot. Manual overclock is almost always better, certainly on an Intel chip.


All I can say in response is I never had performance issues in MP as a client running at 4.3gig but running 5gig as a co-op host is very challenging (mixing and juggling numerous config parameters).

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2021-01-22 21:41:13 - Il-2
Frames: 5956 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 99.267 - Min: 62 - Max: 137
 

This is the 1920x1080 score on Fraps for a 5900x with a RX6800 both stock on a MSI X570 Unify mb with 32G of DDR4-3600 ram/ I sure hope I did all the settings the correct way. Don't have a 4k monitor on this rig (BenQ3501R) so I'll skip 4k.
 

Edited by skline00
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2 hours ago, skline00 said:

Frames: 5956 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 99.267 - Min: 62 - Max: 137
 

This is the 1920x1080 score on Fraps for a 5900x with a RX6800 both stock on a MSI X570 Unify mb with 32G of DDR4-3600 ram/ I sure hope I did all the settings the correct way. I'll run the 4k test next.

 

There are a couple of outliers on the spreadsheet, but most 5600X chips are doing 114 - 119 FPS on that test, so your result seems a little low. I note you have one of the new AMD graphics cards, though -- some folks are reporting IL2-specific issues with them. Interestingly the outlier at 92 FPS is using a Radeon 6800XT.

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On 1/20/2021 at 5:55 PM, Jaws2002 said:

I'll go back to ASUS for my next build

on the B550 boards ASUS seems to be also leading the BIOS update version:

 

ASUS AGESAV2 PI 1.2.0.0:

ASUS.png.ca3219755c05a10f0d0d7fe2f9842d36.png

 

GIGABYTE AGESA V2 1.1.0.0 D

755888888_GigabyteB550Pro.thumb.png.d7d39e9a63862c3eb9481e8ef3de263b.png

 

ASRock AGESA v2 1.1.0.0. D

ASrock.thumb.png.edcdbd3ea0cdf887dba279a925df6653.png

On 1/20/2021 at 7:22 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Avoid Gigabyte if you can.

 

Nowadays, I'd you get an MSI card, get an MSI Mobo. If you go Asus, you go Asus

 

Well, I just went to Gigabyte since it was tested with IL-2 and 5600X and it went well.

Then I just went to Gigabyte 3080 since someone in my city was selling it.

So, just by coincidence both my Mobo and GPU are Gigabyte. It is running perfectly OK and I gain a lot from my previous PC.

However, the B550 Mobos of MSI and ASUS were XMP certified for the 3800MHz Trindent Z Neo, but not Gigabyte:

 

https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1605159977/F4-3800C14D-32GTZN-Qvl

 

Untitled.thumb.png.6a080fca7ff323bfc3b306abbeb239d4.png

 

So, next time the MSI or ASUS will be a better bet.

Edited by chiliwili69
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Yeah, that your config works doesn't mean the brand has fixed their stuff. Notice they're also running older agesa.

Exchange the gigabyte 3080 for a gigabyte 3070 and bam, bye bye fusion 2.0. other troubles include controlling RAM RGB e.g. reliably, or GPUs of other vendors. Or a Gigabyte GPU in an e.g. ASRock or Asus board... 

 

And, tbh, all the available real good RAM kits nowadays have RGB. You can't dodge it nowadays.

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Well - I just bought a used Gigabite aorus 3090 Xtreme 😵😉 

Im dont feel I have troubles with it ,  but how do I know - it's working and it is better than my 2080 super ..... Had to be , it was not a cheap change .... ( And I don't wanna compare to,what the game itself are costing )

 

But .... But .... I have not made the test yet .... Not have timed for it ...but imhave tried OC the GPU ..... And how mush is it worth going for , before it's a step ?? 

In super position benchmark I go from AVG 127 to 132 before it chrash 

4412CCE1-42B7-45C7-8B37-85B04801DE4A.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

There are a couple of outliers on the spreadsheet, but most 5600X chips are doing 114 - 119 FPS on that test, so your result seems a little low. I note you have one of the new AMD graphics cards, though -- some folks are reporting IL2-specific issues with them. Interestingly the outlier at 92 FPS is using a Radeon 6800XT.

Yes - it is definitely an issue with Navi 21 cards - that outlier you are talking about is mine 5600x. With 2080ti it did aprox 117 fps in cpu test. With 6800 XT it did only 92 fps. Similar settings, just newer BIOS on 6800 XT test, and reisable BAR on.

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8 hours ago, Alonzo said:

Radeon 6800XT.

 

It is a 6800, not the 6800XT. I marked that in color since the GPU seems to be the constraint in the CPU test.

Definetely there should be something in the software (either in drivers with IL-2 or somekind of conflict of IL2 with that cards). I will update this info in the "Best PC for IL-2" so people is aware of that.

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18 hours ago, thermoregulator said:

65.067

Thanks for this extra test. I understand it is the VRtest1 and you used the G1 at 100%SS.

If this is the case, it confirms more that the 6800XT is limiting also in VR the performance of the CPU.

With a 1080Ti or with a 3080 and the same CPU I got 77 fps for this VRTEst1.

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

Thanks for this extra test. I understand it is the VRtest1 and you used the G1 at 100%SS.

If this is the case, it confirms more that the 6800XT is limiting also in VR the performance of the CPU.

With a 1080Ti or with a 3080 and the same CPU I got 77 fps for this VRTEst1.

Exactly. Only thing I changed was motherboard, I swapped Asus TUF B550 for ASUS STRIX B550-A. Results are much worse tham with 2080ti. Maybe i could try it with resisable BAR off, but I doubt it would change the outcome. I didn't have time to actually play the game on my 5600x system, I just tried one QMB flight, and it was locked on 90 Hz with Reverb G1, but I guess 1080ti could manage this too.

 

It is possible that those performance issues are caused by some subobtimal settings etc., and someone more experienced with radeon settings, or with more time to tweak the settings could solve this, but out of the box performance in IL with Navi 21 cards is terrible.

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Some VR2 test results for the HP Reverb G2 when comparing eggs and omelettes.........

 

Was not happy with the results I was getting with the Intel setup that I had, so had been pondering a switch to AMD CPU (and Yes given that the intel setup was quite recent it was a real "first world" problem).  Picked a Ryzen 5800X and Mobo a couple of days ago and the results are in.

Hopefully my results are of some interest for people considering a new PC build.

 

Notes:

1. Only interested on VR performance at 100% resolution so these are the only figures captured using the SYN VANDER Benchmark i.e. VR2 test setup

2. My VRfps was still reported that reprojection was occurring even though I disabled it in every location that I could find. THAT MAY ALTER THE RESULTS THAT YOU CAN OBTAIN. My results always seemed to be a bit on the low side.

3. Apart from the CPU and motherboard all other components were the same between the Intel and AMD tests but different memory timings and RAM frequencies apply.

4. The intel CPU had MSI's standard gaming overclock applied whereas the 5800x was standard i.e. no gaming profile applied

5. Figures quoted are averages as at least two tests were conducted for each scenario and recording time was 60 seconds

6. For AMD, FLCK and RAM speeds were in sync

 

PC Build

Intel i7 10700k & Ryzen 5800x. 

MSI Tomahawk Z490 &  MSI Tomahawk X570 for the respective CPU's

MSI Trio RTX 3090

Patriot Viper 4400 MHz, 2 x 8 Gb.

Samsung 1 Tb M.2 NVME storage

HP Reverb G2

 

Test 1. Intel i7 10700kf RAM 4266Mz CL18, Mem latency 47 ns

Frames= 4142    Min = 52.7    Max = 91   Average = 69.03

 

Test 2. 5800X RAM 3200MHz  3600MHz* CL14, Mem latency 65 ns *Edit, corrected a transcribing error in my spreadsheet, latency figure now is also suspect:(

Frames= 4622    Min = 56.67    Max = 91    Average = 77.03

 

Test 3.  5800X 3800 MHz CL16-16-16-16-32, Mem latency 58 ns

Frames= 4826    Min = 58.5    Max = 91    Average = 80.56

 

Test 4.  5800X 4000 MHz CL16-16-16-16-32, Mem latency 57.5 ns

Frames= 4803    Min = 59.5    Max = 91    Average = 80.05

 

I did play around with secondary memory timings and hit averages in the 83 - 85 fps range but started to get some system instability and became quite good at resetting the motherboards CMOS. 

I guess running a 5800x at 4000MHz RAM speed and CL14 timings was just a step too far! :) 

 

Was able to consistently run the AMD infinity fabric at 2000Mhz with RAM at CL16 timings but both Aida and SYN VANDER Benchmark showed slightly lower performance than running at 1900 MHz setting.

 

Conclusion:

1. Swapping to a stock AMD CPU and memory timings resulted in just over a 10% improvement in average frame rates over the Intel CPU (that was also running Game profile settings)

2. Upping the infinity fabric and memory timings to 1900 (i.e. RAM at 3800 MHz) gained another 5 % or so. This was an overall 15% improvement over using the Intel CPU

3. My impression is that the GPU is still being held back by the CPU, even with the 5800x, as it was running at or below 90% quite a lot of the time when monitored in VRfps.

 

 

Edited by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
fixed a latency figure error, added VR Headset detail, mem timings
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2 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

 

Test 3.  5800X 3800 MHz CL16, Mem latency 58 ns

Frames= 4826    Min = 58.5    Max = 91    Average = 80.56

 

Many thanks for this detailed test. It gives a lot of data. And the top record in the VRtest2!

Just for completeness it would be good if you can run just the CPUtest for the Ryzen and 3800MHz.

 

It is also interesting that the FLCK 1900 vs 2000 give same results.

 

Regarding the reprojection (motion smoothing), your minimun fps is not 45, so I don´t know how fpsVR was detecting that.

 

 

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CPU 1080p results with 3800 MHz RAM and just standard/default BIOS CPU settings using a MSI X570 Tomahawk MoBo

This test was done using some tightened secondary RAM timings that do not appear to have improved this particular set of results (but they do appear to help with VR fps by approx 1- 2 frames over my above published VR2 results).

 

Averaged results across three tests. Saw up to 10% variation between individual runs, for Max value, but the averaged results are typical 5800x CPU test results

 

CPU 1080 test  5800X 3800 MHz CL16-15-15-15-30, Mem latency 56.6 ns

Frames= 7434    Min = 108    Max = 164    Average = 123.9

 

Edit: Just for interest, I ran the tests again with SMT (Ryzen's Hyperthreading ) disabled and it made absolutely no difference to the results. It is generally recommended to leave SMT enabled and this test and the same in VR2 testing, that I conducted, show no benefit in disabling it.

Edited by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
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On 1/20/2021 at 9:37 PM, chiliwili69 said:

This is what I was afraid of. It seems a IL-2 problem with the new 6800XT cards.

 

I’m searching for an GTX1080 exchange and with the $$$-3080 rocketing skyhigh, an advice mainly for using BoX, is it better to go for an RTX3070 then a 6800XT?  

 

Edited by Dutch2
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Well, if you watch benchs at this sim, at high resolutions, you will see that AMD is not at same level than Nvidia. 

 

At this game. It's not same history with other PC games. But, 6800/6900 are weaker as you test them at higher resolutions. Not because VRAM. Probably, the main problem is the AMD's  128MB cache. 

For example, at 4K Nvidia 3080 (10GB VRAM) is better that 6900XT (16GB) in near all tests.

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4 hours ago, PA_Willy said:

Well, if you watch benchs at this sim, at high resolutions, you will see that AMD is not at same level than Nvidia. 

 

At this game. It's not same history with other PC games. But, 6800/6900 are weaker as you test them at higher resolutions. Not because VRAM. Probably, the main problem is the AMD's  128MB cache. 

For example, at 4K Nvidia 3080 (10GB VRAM) is better that 6900XT (16GB) in near all tests.

I'm pretty sure it's software relate, and has nothing to do with the cache. AMD's 5000 series cards are faster than their 6000 series in this game, and that points to game/driver issues.

 

 The develpers needs to contact AMD and work this out. 

 

AMD is fixing and improving drivers as fast as they can, and the 6000 series got 9% performance improvement in most games, from the latest driver alone, but they need to be informed there's a severe issue with this game.

Edited by Jaws2002
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Jaws, check reviews. You will see that AMD 6800XT and 6900XT are worse than RTX3080 (and 3070 in some games), at 4K resolutions. Although AMD cards has got 16GB VRAM (instead of 10/8GB from Nvidia cards). Use Google, you will see. 

AMD cards performance at higher resolutions is worse. Not only in IL-2GB (yes, maybe there is a aditional problem -drivers- in our sim).

Edited by PA_Willy
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I let the hype of the Zen 3 get the better of me and ended up with a 5600 on a gigabyte board.

 

TBH I'm not overwhelmed with the Ryzen. It's a definite performer out of the box, but does not have a lot of head room for OC. In fact I've ended up leaving it on PBO. I also used a gigabyte board for the first time  in 20 + years of building my own PCs.

I'm not overly impressed with that either, got an Aorus X570 Elite. Had to flash the bios to be able to boot with the 5600 on first start up. Which although not ideal I could get past.  But then then had an intermittent power off issue for the first few weeks. PC would just power off randomly. Had it going 48 hours on Prime 95 with no issue. But then after 10 mins browsing the web the  PC powered off. Issue seems to be resolved now with the latest bios that was released a few weeks ago. So far Gigabyte BIOS seems far from polished.

 

I was going to try and get a 6800xt to go with this set up , but have now decided to stick with Nvidia and hold on for.a 3080

 

 

 

Edited by J2_SteveF
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