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Developer Diary 265 - Discussion


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I don't know how much times have changed with WWII flight-simmers since 2018, but I can tell you from working the 1CGS booth at that year's Flight Sim Expo in Vegas with Jason and Hooves that a lot of people had no idea there was a successor to the original IL2 series. So, it's entirely understandable that people will just be getting into the series now, especially as the Western Front is now being filled out with a whole lot of quality content. There are going to be those as well who don't have an interest in the East. You put it altogether, and it would be crazy madness to not have at least one Bf 109 in the basic package.

Edited by LukeFF
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7 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

It's much easier to develop another 109. You don't have to start from scratch when similar variants already exist.

 

Which is historically exactly what happened.  The production lines can keep rolling with minimal disruption.  The Brits did this too with the Spitfire.

 

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16 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

True, but Battle of Stalingrad and Battle of Moscow have two 109s apiece (standard version) and can be bought for about $10 each when on sale, which is a freaking amazing deal when you think of it. I can't imagine anyone would have just BoN when other modules are available with 6 excellent planes and nice maps for the price of an espresso and a chocolate muffin.

 

In any case, I don't mean to argue with you. Just curious why, if developer man hours are limited, why some highly desirable planes go unmade while others see their 9th iteration.

You've also gotta remember that folks like  us that come to the forums daily and buy up almost everything released for BoX are the exception and not the norm.  Most customers are probably only buying the theaters they are most interested in, I'd venture to guess BoBp and BoN are a lot of western based customers first venture into the BoX series and for them, there are currently only 3 (4 if you include the collectors G6) available variants of the 109 for those customers.  Would I love for the devs to be investing time into a flyable C-47 or B-25 instead..yeah but I'm looking forward to the G6 Late too nonetheless.  The 109 is my favorite Luftwaffe aircraft so the more the merrier 🙂

 

 

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2 hours ago, BlackHellHound1 said:

Great looking aircraft but can you please explain exactly what is different compared to the G-14 we already have?

 

The engine is the most obvious technical difference between both. DB 605A in the G6 and DB 605AM in the G14.

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53 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

Just curious why, if developer man hours are limited, why some highly desirable planes go unmade

While I don't really agree with this notion about the G-6 Late, I do agree with your notion about some other planes:

 

Fw-190A-3: Now that we're going to get Normandy and the Channel map, I guess a scenario involving it in 1941-42 over the Channel map can work; and if the devs decide to do Finland, but this aircraft seems completely out of place for Battle of Stalingrad. And there's the Fw-190A-5, A-8, and soon to be A-6 in the game. To be honest, the devs should have made the Ju-52 flyable, or the IAR 80/81 instead.

 

Macchi 202: Wasn't even at Moscow, so why bother making it? Sure, if the devs were going to North Africa or the Mediterranean immediately after BoM, then yes, but considering the fact that it saw action in August 1942 at Stalingrad, and in small numbers, it doesn't really belong in Moscow, or in this game. Should have made the Macchi 200, which saw action in greater numbers, and was at Moscow.

 

Bf-109F-2/F-4: Should have gone with just one. If they had, the long requested Ju-87B probably would have been added for BoM.

 

Guys. I'm not trying to be antagonistic towards aircraft decisions that the devs have made, it's just if you're able to add like 40+ planes/variants/modifications like in Desert Wings - Tobruk, then sure, go ahead and make almost every single plane that saw action (ranging from limited to significant) at the particular battle, and planes people would be interested in flying. But, if you're limited to just 10 planes, then it all comes down to what planes were at the battle, what planes at this battle are less difficult to make than others that people would be greatly interested in flying, and what planes that saw action at this battle are missing from the game that were used in other places covered in the game.

 

That's why I feel the 3 planes mentioned above were better to include in BoS/BoM than the ones chosen.

 

However, if the devs cover Operation Barbarossa in this game, then I hope they can add the 2-3 planes mentioned above in it.

 

Salute.

Edited by Enceladus
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2 hours ago, No.331.Animal_Mother said:

Those looking for the A/S variants: you 109 boys want to fly even higher above everyone else? ;)


The AS(M) improves high altitude performance, but not above the level of the allied fighters, so they would still have the advantage up there, compared with the P-47D-22, P-51B (specially with the V-1650-3 engine) and Spit Mk XIV.

G-6/AS or G-14/AS high altitude performance is similar to that of the K-4, but a tad slower since they still have the fixed external tailwheel and uncovered main landing gear wheels. At low altitude they are a bit slower than the regular G-14. It's like a bit of a frankenstein, below 5000 meters, a bit slower than G-14 then above 5000 meters, a bit slower than K-4
 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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3 hours ago, No.331.Animal_Mother said:

Those looking for the A/S variants: you 109 boys want to fly even higher above everyone else? ;)

 

Not so much in my case. More looking for the aircraft that made up nearly 50% of those 109s involved in Bodenplatte. See Manrho/Pütz here:

 

image.thumb.png.8bd3476d9cf5d2f4eb723dfef9d5a415.pngimage.png.9f2d8f56f2dda8e416577c19b0e0dfa2.png

Edited by sevenless
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Is anyone able to feel a difference between the late tail fin and the earlier? If so could you try describe this difference in handling please?

 

I just can't feel any difference or benefit in the later tail design. 

 

RGDS

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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3 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

In any case, I don't mean to argue with you. Just curious why, if developer man hours are limited, why some highly desirable planes go unmade while others see their 9th iteration.

 

Perhaps because each 109 iteration is only about 10% of the work for a new plane? Even less to change the colour of the rudder pedals.

 

Anyway, be calm old chap: Mosquito is coming soon.  

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1 hour ago, unreasonable said:

 

Perhaps because each 109 iteration is only about 10% of the work for a new plane? Even less to change the colour of the rudder pedals.

 

So there's 10% of a new plane. :biggrin: Ar-ar.

 

1 hour ago, unreasonable said:

 

Anyway, be calm old chap: Mosquito is coming soon.  

 

To DCS this year they say. My Steam wallet stands ready. 

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9 hours ago, No.331.Animal_Mother said:

Those looking for the A/S variants: you 109 boys want to fly even higher above everyone else? ;)

I think is not matter of 109 Fanboys. I like all planes, and to be fair, is a dissapointing not seeing AS variants.

Why? Because if you like all planes, you have both planes already, and this is a third plane wich is G-6 and G-14 in the same plane. Depending on your modifications.

That is kinda dissapointing. AS Variants, even GM-1 should mark a difference between the previous added planes, and that will make a revision of the modifications of those planes as well actually possible.

By the way. It is good to see another plane indeed. And i have faith in future changes as well. I remember P-47 and Spitfire cases

 

Edited by UrsusArctos
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There is clearly a demand for Bf 109 variants. If the developers save time by making them, rather than something else, that gives them more time to dedicate to other stuff. Accordingly, while I can't say I'm particularly excited about this one, I'm not going to complain - there's a heck of a lot else to look forward to.

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25 minutes ago, UrsusArctos said:

I think is not matter of 109 Fanboys. I like all planes, and to be fair, is a dissapointing to not see AS variants.

Why? Because if you like all planes, you have both planes already, and this is a third plane wich is G-6 and G-14 in the same plane. Depending on your modifications.

That is kinda dissapointing. AS Variants, even GM-1 should mark a difference between the previous added planes, and that will make a revision of the modifications of those planes as well actually possible.

 

 

Considering that in a Normandy situation you won't have a G-14; I don't think it is that much of an issue. I think it was mentioned earlier, but the devs have to make it so each product stands on its own. Because of that, there will be repeats, or close repeats. Hell, I remember people bringing this same deal up with the Peshka and Bf-109s included in the Moscow pack, or the G-4 that is included with Kuban. Maybe not every plane HAS to appeal to the person who owns everything. Especially with the Bf-109, and its prevalence; I these variants make a more complete product overall.  

 

Although, I do agree. Representation of the different engines would be cool to see. Shoot, some Allied planes have different engine mods. Why not include the 109s too?

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23 minutes ago, [CPT]milopugdog said:

 

Although, I do agree. Representation of the different engines would be cool to see. Shoot, some Allied planes have different engine mods. Why not include the 109s too?

As far as I'm aware the AS engine has just a different supercharger. Very much like the Merlin 66/70.

 

Hopefully that'll be able to be included, but I'm grateful that the whole BoN project is progressing and can't wait for all the new planes

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32 minutes ago, Barnacles said:

As far as I'm aware the AS engine has just a different supercharger. Very much like the Merlin 66/70.

 

I think that the new engine cowling of the AS would be significant in terms of development work. The required meshes and textures are fairly large and intricate.

 

I can therefore understand the decision to avoid expanding the scope of the project. However, it would certainly be nice to see an AS eventually.

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11 hours ago, I./JG1_Baron said:

 

I want also Bf109C, D, E1, E3, E4  🙂

 

 

Wouldn't that be cool, I'd settle for any one of them. That said we must be coming close to the point where pre F series 109's are all that's left to do, any idea how many 109 variants will be left after this release?

Edited by Pict
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11 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Fw-190A-3: Now that we're going to get Normandy and the Channel map, I guess a scenario involving it in 1941-42 over the Channel map can work; and if the devs decide to do Finland, but this aircraft seems completely out of place for Battle of Stalingrad. And there's the Fw-190A-5, A-8, and soon to be A-6 in the game. To be honest, the devs should have made the Ju-52 flyable, or the IAR 80/81 instead.

What you are forgetting is BOS was the first game of this series. They had to attract as many players as possible to get this series running. And therefore the FW190 A3 made perfectly sense, as the 190 is an iconic aircraft. Apart from that you are absolutely right. But for everyone, who doesn't want to have the A3, because it didn't take part in the battle of Stalingrad, there is the possibility to buy the standard version without the A3.

12 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

True, but Battle of Stalingrad and Battle of Moscow have two 109s apiece (standard version) and can be bought for about $10 each when on sale, which is a freaking amazing deal when you think of it. I can't imagine anyone would have just BoN when other modules are available with 6 excellent planes and nice maps for the price of an espresso and a chocolate muffin.

But you can't, and I am quite sure noone would want to, fly the 109 F2/F4, G2 and E7, fly in BON. So everyone, who starts with BON needs at least the 109 G6 early, to fly a 109 in BON. Therefore the late G6 makes perfectly sense.

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3 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

I think that the new engine cowling of the AS would be significant in terms of development work. The required meshes and textures are fairly large and intricate.

 

I can therefore understand the decision to avoid expanding the scope of the project. However, it would certainly be nice to see an AS eventually.

i guess the new FlightModel would be the most work.

 

with the actual G-6 Late they can just copy (in most things) the FM of the early G-6 (with DB605A) and the G-14 (with DB605AM).

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Ok, so let’s go for more 110s (G3, G4, H4 with nachtjaeger versions and recon too) and 190s.

Spits also (XVI, XIV, PRU, etc)

B-25 C, F, G, H too

A-20 with hard nose and turret 

Etc, etc.

 

So simple ´cause there are already some ingame 

Edited by DN308
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14 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

I'd certainly agree that the Soviets need their own twin engined bombers... would make a nice collectors aircraft pack!

 

We need more playable bombers in general. The western allies especially. The cockpit for the B25 would be a great start.

Edited by Motherbrain
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3 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

 

 

But you can't, and I am quite sure noone would want to, fly the 109 F2/F4, G2 and E7, fly in BON. So everyone, who starts with BON needs at least the 109 G6 early, to fly a 109 in BON. Therefore the late G6 makes perfectly sense.

 

Maybe, then again they could have just thrown in one of the existing adequate-to-the-task 109s and used the mental space on a plane that does not have 8 pre-existing iterations in the game already. I guess in a year or two or three it will be up to a dozen 109s and it will continue that a thirteenth absolutely must! be made, even if other planes are left to wait.

 

On the plus side, all the BoX planes are very nicely made. No argument about that.

 

 

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Is the Bf-109 G-6 "Late" coming with two features combined (DB 605ASM) or just with "DB 605AM" same as the G-14? When two features combined (DB 605ASM) engine were introduced into the Bf 109 G-6 and Bf 109 G-14 and this engine is not included in the game how  realistic is this game then?

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