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Game version 4.502 discussion: Hurricane, C-47, Bf-110-E2 in 4K, New G-Effect, Tank Crew and other improvements


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1 hour ago, =/Hospiz/=Metalhead said:

due to being very forgiving, it seems to be kinda "easy mode" and less realistic

 

that's my impression as well. For the first 5-10 seconds of the dogfight it feels like a  pre-introduction of the physiology way back when planes could do crazy maneuvers without any penalty. Yes, the tiredness starts to quickly accumulate along with the reduced ability to continue the tight turns and all. Is it realistic? Of course, since the devs did an amazing work pulling all possible data variants for analysis.

 

But the game play now feels very 'gamey' with elements of the arcade. No longer the pilot needs to think about the consequences of the first couple of turns and how it can affect his/her attack. And in MP those 1-2 turns pretty much make the dog fight.

 

I feel that in reality of the ww2 the pilots weren't just exposed to the high G's that limited their maneuverability. There's constant loud engine noise, vibration, fumes, high/low temperature that affected their extremities and reaction times, uncomfortable seat (metal), etc etc.. the list can go on and on, heck, even a simple fear of death would preclude one from doing some crazy dangerous maneuvers. None of these parameters simulated in the game, hence the G's survivability is the only decisive factor here.

 

I'm all for the additional blurring effects, and other intricate G simulation, but for the sake of the ww2 immersion I liked the previous G model better as it leveled the playing field and one had to use his/her personal tactic in regards to any plane. Whereas now it's just let's pull the stick 100% to the belly and shoot them bullets...

 

edit: grammah

Edited by 69th_Didney_World
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SAS_Storebror
29 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

with hurri you can bring down 3 emils with hispanos. I know it has 4 cannons but.....

Totally agree that the four Hispanos feel like they're not from this world.

They're not alone though, HE ammo tends to perform... cough, cough... quite optimistic to say the least.

 

:drinks:

Mike 

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-=PHX=-SuperEtendard
3 hours ago, ACG_PanzerV said:

What was the historical availability and date on this engine?  It will push the Hurri into the mid-war years as a 'mount of choice' quite easily.


Without the extra boost mod, with just 8 machine guns it would be late 1940. With the 12 machine guns, early 1941. With the quad Hispanos mid 1941. With the engine modification, like Luke said mid/late 1942.

 

2 hours ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Are you serious? Why on earth brits ever made spitfire since hurricane was so uber plane? Dont make me laugh.

 


Maybe because the Spitfire was a much faster, better climbing fighter. The Hurricane is the second slowest ww2 fighter in the game, if you equip the Hispano cannons and keep it in a 1941 setting (no extra boost) it actually becomes the slowest fighter in the game at sea level, yeah slower than the I-16.
 

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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1PL-Husar-1Esk
7 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Are you serious? Why on earth brits ever made spitfire since hurricane was so uber plane? Dont make me laugh.

Not the uber plane but did shoot down 2/3 of enemy planes during battle of england.

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I./JG52_Woutwocampe

Whats funny is that the game updates automatically with steam so yesterday I played without knowing about this massive update. Took off in my G6 and fought many Lagg3s, Yak 1bs and even a couple of La5FNs. I immediately noticed that the Lagg3s were far less clueless and easy to manage than the usual, I wondered. But then my pilot started seeing black and panting, I was like wow, what the hell is happening, I need to gtfo of here!

 

Overall great update. A couple of lingering issues still there but its a great step in the proper direction.

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35 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


 


Maybe because the Spitfire was a much faster, better climbing fighter. The Hurricane is the second slowest ww2 fighter in the game, if you equip the Hispano cannons and keep it in a 1941 setting (no extra boost) it actually becomes the slowest fighter in the game at sea level, yeah slower than the I-16.
 

What????

 

I achieved 447 kmh on the deck WITH the 40mm GUNPODS. No wonder 110 cant catch it. So it is NOT second slowest fighter in the game, specially in the 41.

 

hurrideckspeed.jpg

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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1 minute ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

 

you're running it at 14 boost..

Yes, and? I had 40mm gundpods too. And in MP you cannot catch it with 110 in any scenario which is funny.

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1 minute ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Yes, and? I had 40mm gundpods too. And in MP you cannot catch it with 110 in any scenario which is funny.

 

"keep it in a 1941 setting (no extra boost)"

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29 minutes ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

 

"keep it in a 1941 setting (no extra boost)"

Tell that to mission builders and server admins. Engine mod is unlocked there and on the other side is Macchi and Emil.

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=/Hospiz/=MetalHead
1 hour ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Not the uber plane but did shoot down 2/3 of enemy planes during battle of england.


They equipped most of the fighter squadrons, operated in the most combat-intense sectors, so no doubt they inflicted majority of the casualties.

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Last month I learned for the first time about "Hurricane burns" (graphic depiction of its surviving victims in Garth Ennis' comic "Out Of The Blue"). Are those fuel fires in the cockpit an issue in the depiction of the plane in this sim?

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PatrickAWlson
5 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Tell that to mission builders and server admins. Engine mod is unlocked there and on the other side is Macchi and Emil.

 

The guy said it was the slowest plane at SL given a 1941 configuration.  The fact that a server got it wrong doesn't invalidate the statement.

 

This whole thing comes about as a result of people saying the Hurricane is somehow too good.  If you use it historically then it is not too good.  If you are in a 109 and you get into a turn fight with the Hurricane then you deserve what you get.  It was tough, stable, and could turn well.  it was also slow and couldn't climb well, which means its opponents could dictate terms.  

 

By the time the 14lb boost comes into play you are dealing with 109Fs and Gs.  As long as you don't fly your plane exactly the way the Hurricane pilot hopes you will you're fine.

 

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LLv24_SukkaVR

What a great plane! Bagged nice amount of jerries on ded normal, last round got 7-1 kills with this beauty, got couple kills with 12x303's too 😄 Very maneuvereable and nice to fly. Not as slow as i thought it would be, and i also love the new G effects.

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69th_Mobile_BBQ

Just gave 'er a fly!     

 

Turning and handling: Very good and stable

Speed: Average (possibly slightly below later war) 

Weapons options: Very versatile. 

Weapons types: Some very good, some bordering on inadequate (.303s, historical).

 

Opinion:  I can see that while taking on one Hurricane might not fair well for the Hurricane, taking on a swarm of Hurricanes is going to be a nightmare.  

 

Conclusion:  Yes, it is a Hurricane!   Great Job IL-2 TEAM!

 

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Quote

3. Female crews got female voices in the radio messages;

 

Nice! I can do a 586th fighter regiment career now. Although for now I have to use Pat Winson's career generator since the career photo generator only has male features. Eventually adding Rastova's regiments would be a nice homage in my opinion.

 

Cheers!

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-=PHX=-SuperEtendard
1 hour ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

What????

I achieved 447 kmh on the deck WITH the 40mm GUNPODS. No wonder 110 cant catch it. So it is NOT second slowest fighter in the game, specially in the 41.

 


You are not testing properly since you are at 100 meters above the ground and then there is the ground elevation on top of it. Kuban autumn map is the best since you have the sea to work with.

From slowest to fastest, 1941 settings:

Hurri Mk IIc +12 boost      443 km/h
I-16 Type 24 1065mmHg  448 km/h
Hurri Mk IIa +12 boost      453 km/h
Bf 109 E-7 1.3 ata              465 km/h
Bf 110 E-2 1.3 ata              468km/h
MC. 202 1.35 ata               491 km/h
Spitfire Mk Vb +12 boost 501 km/h
Bf 109 F-2  1.35 ata           532 km/h


 

Spoiler

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=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire

Nice update dudes :good:    i do have one problem on my end i see a lot more jaggies since the last update 4.501   :salute:

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Blooddawn1942

Long time no write for me. But at this point I have to say that I absolutely admire the Hurricane. What an labour of love,doing this iconic aircraft justice! I had always a sweet spot for the Hurry! And as an unexpected benefit it handles incredibly awesome. I suck big time in the Hurricane in CloD, but I was able to bring down a F-2 in my first BoM Career mission. But the 303s suck big time. 😄

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4 hours ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

But the game play now feels very 'gamey' with elements of the arcade. No longer the pilot needs to think about the consequences of the first couple of turns and how it can affect his/her attack. And in MP those 1-2 turns pretty much make the dog fight.

 

Do they though? Especially earlier in the war when firepower isn't as high and manoeuvring fights are more common? I tend to fly very conservatively at first in order to save the energy of both the pilot and the plane.

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2 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Weapons options: Very versatile. 

Weapons types: Some very good, some bordering on inadequate (.303s, historical).

May I ask what your experiences are?

Just asking because I can easily shoot down Heinkels, but I have the impression that .303s are inadequate against, say, Macchis.

Now the question arises how .303s could win BoB. I'm a bad marksman, but not as bad as most British Commonwealth pilots were back then.

Edited by sniperton
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5 hours ago, =/Hospiz/=Metalhead said:

Sad thing is, that, due to being very forgiving, it seems to be kinda "easy mode" and less realistic

 

It is not so super forgiving, in fact on continuous turning it hits harder than before. If you do that hard turn you will not be able to keep it up in subsequent turns.

I found it not very realistic to simply blackout instantly at high G load like before - it made everything very predictable.

 

Now you got to think about what you do. I pulled some attackers into G-LoC or high fatigue with smart manouvering on Berloga (epitome of quick dogfights) because they thought they could get that high G shot which they could not because I rolled to evade before they fired - they fatigued-out after some more turns and I went up behind them. Felt very rewarding.

 

Of course on a server like Berloga where you can instantly respawn the situation becomes different quickly - but it isn't realistic to begin with.

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15 minutes ago, sniperton said:

May I ask what your experiences are?

Just asking because I can easily shoot down Heinkels, but I have the impression that .303s are inadequate against, say, Macchis.

Now the question arises how .303s could win BoB. I'm a bad marksman, but not as bad as most British Commonwealth pilots were back then.

I wonder the same thing. In my hurricane career I emptied all my ammo into a Heinkel and my 2-3 other wingmen did the same, the thing just ate up all those rounds and kept on going. I think it eventually went down but it took alot. I should have attacked from the front and hit the cockpit and try to take out the pilot.

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69th_Mobile_BBQ
33 minutes ago, sniperton said:

May I ask what your experiences are?

Just asking because I can easily shoot down Heinkels, but I have the impression that .303s are inadequate against, say, Macchis.

Now the question arises how .303s could win BoB. I'm a bad marksman, but not as bad as most British Commonwealth pilots were back then.

 

Well, my shooting with the 8 .303s configuration, 1941 standard seems to indicate that a good 2-3 second burst will quite well chew up control surfaces on He-111 and Ju-88s.  A good 2-3 seconds on an engine will shut it down of set it on fire.   Hitting at exact convergence certainly deals out a hard hit on the enemy.  

 

I was using 450m convergence for fighter/bomber attacking.  At 450 air-to-air, convergence shots still do hit well, but if the target is closer than that, then out-of-convergence shots are a bit more random for results.  For strafing small ground targets, If I hit right at convergence, it's most likely a target kill.  If I fire too late, then there's usually enough hitting to make the soldiers run away.   

 

I know that for Air-to-Air combat, not setting convergence below 300m  is what nearly everybody is going to tell me I've done wrong but, IMO it's much better to have more distance leeway when attacking ground targets as well.   That and, at least below 500m convergence doesn't seem to make much difference vs. ~250m convergence when the target is hit at the convergence point.  The bullets don't lose much energy that much farther out from 250m.  Even so, firing at a target 500m away with a 250m convergence might be slightly worse than firing at a target 250m away with a 500m convergence due to bullet spread behavior beyond the convergence point.   

 

Besides, spending half the ammo load beating up a He-111 and then having it crawl off and die (which was one of my experiences) seems it might be well on-par with what pilots experienced during the BoB and elsewhere the Hurricane was used.  

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1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

I wonder the same thing. In my hurricane career I emptied all my ammo into a Heinkel and my 2-3 other wingmen did the same, the thing just ate up all those rounds and kept on going.

Heinkels are easy, believe me. Just aim at the engine and they will go down in flames sooner or later. For me the real problem is how to shoot down one-engine aircraft. Stukas are thougher than Heinkels, Macchis are thougher than Stukas, and 109Es are thougher than Macchis.

 

If it were only Heinkels, I woud be fine. But currently 12x.303s don't bring down a Stuka or Macchi other than by PKs from deflection. Was it really that bad?

 

Edited by sniperton
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  • 1CGS

@sniperton, from experience, a hurricane destroys any fighter(attack aircraft) in a frontal attack or from projections 1/4, 2/4 when firing at the engine and cockpit, at least the enemy after a shower of bullets (12 machine guns) usually has engine burns if the pilot is not killed.

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Well this is just SUPER.

 

After preordering and waiting ever so patiently, this fantastic Hurricane comes out on the very same day that the Dr. says I have a broken bone in my hand.  

 

Guess I could take it for a spin anyway but I won't be able to raise or lower the landing gear or flaps, adjust the prop pitch, mixture, or radiators for 6 weeks due to this #@%! cast.

 

But they said I could have ice cream, so I have that going for me.  Which is nice.

 

And I am very glad that it is out and that everyone is enjoying it.

 

pRijphR.jpg

Edited by Stoopy
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2 minutes ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@sniperton, from experience, a hurricane destroys any fighter in a frontal attack or from projections 1/4, 2/4 when firing at the engine and cockpit, at least the enemy after a shower of bullets (12 machine guns) usually has engine burns if the pilot is not killed.

Understood, but I'm mainly behind that plane and I'm a bit uneasy about that my hits don't matter.

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  • 1CGS

@Stoopy, get well soon)

3 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Understood, but I'm mainly behind that plane and I'm a bit uneasy about that my hits don't matter.

There is a stereotype that if the plane did not burst at one moment, then nothing happened to it. This is not so, even if you are in the 4/4 angle, you can very much spoil the nerves of the enemy by shooting at the radiators. Yes, the plane will not immediately fall into the bushes, but the chances that the plane will return home from the enemy are negligible(if it is not an FW 190).

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=/Hospiz/=MetalHead
1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

It is not so super forgiving, in fact on continuous turning it hits harder than before. If you do that hard turn you will not be able to keep it up in subsequent turns.

I found it not very realistic to simply blackout instantly at high G load like before - it made everything very predictable.

 

Now you got to think about what you do. I pulled some attackers into G-LoC or high fatigue with smart manouvering on Berloga (epitome of quick dogfights) because they thought they could get that high G shot which they could not because I rolled to evade before they fired - they fatigued-out after some more turns and I went up behind them. Felt very rewarding.

 

Of course on a server like Berloga where you can instantly respawn the situation becomes different quickly - but it isn't realistic to begin with.


Being realistic is not about complexity or learning curve. Right now, a "fresh" pilot can easily pull out of a 700kph dive using full elevator and trim combined, with only slight greyout. Compare that to Stuka pilot's memories about dive bombing, while keeping in mind that they dived at much lower speeds than that. Back in WW2 your average pilot had very litte, if any, training or knowledge about mitigating g-loads, so he was not able to hold or delay black out. Whether predictable or not, rapid g-load increase causes sudden blackout very quickly. Have you ever tried to carry stuff that weighted twice as much as you? Now imagine that being suddenly snapped at you when you pull the stick, and that's only 3g. My personal experience is limited to roughly 3,5G manuvers, as haven't flown anything certified past 4,4g, yet even at such "low" loads you already feel it a lot, and you have to focus all of yourself on actually flying the plane. At higher loads things start to go down very quickly.

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1 hour ago, Stoopy said:

Well this is just SUPER.

 

After preordering and waiting ever so patiently, this fantastic Hurricane comes out on the very same day that the Dr. says I have a broken bone in my hand.  

 

Guess I could take it for a spin anyway but I won't be able to raise or lower the landing gear or flaps, adjust the prop pitch, mixture, or radiators for 6 weeks due to this #@%! cast.

 

But they said I could have ice cream, so I have that going for me.  Which is nice.

 

And I am very glad that it is out and that everyone is enjoying it.

 

pRijphR.jpg

 

So sorry to see that!  Just throwing it out there that you could temporarily use Voice Attack to send the commands you can't send with that cast. You will get funny looks from your spouse/significant other/ roommates, though 😛

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SuperChief141

Bit of a Noob with IL-2 here so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, but has anyone seen my Hurricane? Mine seems to be missing. Recently got my 'pit up and running with every quality flight sim program I could get my hands on including BoS, and all its DLC's and collector planes.  When I go into Quick Mission on any map it does not  give me a Hurri option.  It will happily generate an AI Hurri (and C-47 as well) as opponents but not for me.  Alas this is very sad, she looks like a sweetie to fly.

Thanks in advance fellas!

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11 hours ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Yep it cant follow emil in dive (while emil is in full throttle) and doesnt roll too good, thats fine. It turns great, yeah it was a good turner but.... Im not sure it should turn better then Spit V. Also you need to spend all emil`s cannon ammo to shot down hurricane, at least in most occasions. While with hurri you can bring down 3 emils with hispanos. I know it has 4 cannons but.....Like I said Hurris DM is too tough.

 

  :cray:Or.... maybe you just suck at gunnery skills?:hunter:

Here you go Sir.

Learn to fly the Bf 109 E7

Then there is always this.

Deflection Shooting #1 Lutwaffe

And finally there is this

The Fighter Pilot's Mindset

Hopefully these will help you defeat the Big Mean Hawker Hurricane.:pilot:

 

S!Blade<><

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Excellent update.  Bought the Hurricane and had fun against some Emils with .303s...just gotta aim ahead of the engine a little bit.   That'll take the Hun down.

Then I got back into my Spitfire career and Wow!  the G-lock effects...much more improved.  Really enjoyed not instantly blacking out, but the gradual heavy breathing...which at first scared the poo out of me.   Great work Devs...glad I'm getting back into this sim again!

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