1CGS AnPetrovich 2520 Posted October 16, 2020 Author 1CGS Share Posted October 16, 2020 39 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said: Otherwise you need centrifugal simulators and that is a completely other story. I bet nobody will enjoy such a simulator or play any longer than the first try. 13 Link to post Share on other sites
Gustaf 31 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Wow, you can't argue with this guy. That's point one. Point two is: If FFB sticks were available again, we would be in better able to sense and control our inputs which cause excessive G loads. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
messsucher 232 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, hsthhsth said: Great read up! Very interesting with this very informational explanation. My question for this subject: what happens to the flight controls (stick & rudder) during the different stages? Do they stay as they were at the beginning or will the resume to central position or is this also depending on the plane? If you lose your consciousness then supposedly your grip on the stick gets lose. Your feet might push the pedals since nothing would hold them back. Link to post Share on other sites
DerNeueMensch 64 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 outstanding effort - great initiative! Can't wait to fly. Link to post Share on other sites
2dLt_Schonfeld 24 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) Not sure if i got this, keeping the current physiology model had more votes but the ones who voted for changes, won? sorry but It looks like an U.S presidential election. I wonder if there will be another research if the "Press-to-win-boys" start whining again. This was an instant reaction based on coffee and nicotine abstinence. Pardon! Edited October 24, 2020 by 2dLt_Schonfeld 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
616Sqn_Johnny-Red 289 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) An Inspired effort; and one of the most enjoyable reads I've had in ages! Thank you for sharing your research and design rationale in such detail. @AnPetrovich 🎖️ Il-2 Edited October 17, 2020 by 616Sqn_Johnny-Red Link to post Share on other sites
messsucher 232 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gustaf said: Wow, you can't argue with this guy. That's point one. Point two is: If FFB sticks were available again, we would be in better able to sense and control our inputs which cause excessive G loads. Yeah, but how can demand for FFB sticks rise? It would rise if there were people who want FFB stick because it would benefit them. That's why more realism things added into a game can increase the supply of proper hardware. If the game is arcade, then xpox controller is enough. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzen 852 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Thad said: Salutations, I trust that the same effects will actually apply to the AI pilots also. Oh YES! Slightly OT and slightly humorous: I had a friend who commented on my flight sim and flight sims in general .He said first you should open all the windows, wear uncomfortable clothing & boots,use an aerosol of gasoline ( petrol) and when your plane is hit have a friend or wife ( I personally think that his is a bad idea ) hit the back of your chair with a hammer. I was thankful he didn’t suggest lighting the paper in your trash can near your PC on fire as well if your digital plane catches fire... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
1CGS AnPetrovich 2520 Posted October 16, 2020 Author 1CGS Share Posted October 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, SAG said: I don't mind these additions to the sim but I don't understand how they have the time to do this and don't have the time to fix simple things like the rotation of the camera in VR for turrets, or dissapearing objects. I know that i'm in a niche within a niche within another, but I have bought everything they've put out to show support, but I won't be buying any other land stuff (like the AA) guns since I can't really use them. As soon as I'm familiar with computer graphics I will answer your question, but right now VR is out of my field. Many thanks for your support anyway! 5 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Warjunkie_VR 17 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I think this physiology is grossly exaggerated. The books say that the Luftwaffe had take-off and landing problems with the 109 because of the narrow wheelbase and that the pilots were trained less and less because they had to get to the front quickly. The fact that you were constantly in a coma while cornering in the air fight, there is nothing in it. if the g forces were really such a strong factor, they would have reported about it. for a boom and zoom hunter, this strong physiology is absolutely annoying. in the case of dcs and cod, it was not presented as exaggerated. 2 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Tuesday 331 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Warjunkie_VR said: I think this physiology is grossly exaggerated. The books say that the Luftwaffe had take-off and landing problems with the 109 because of the narrow wheelbase and that the pilots were trained less and less because they had to get to the front quickly. The fact that you were constantly in a coma while cornering in the air fight, there is nothing in it. if the g forces were really such a strong factor, they would have reported about it. for a boom and zoom hunter, this strong physiology is absolutely annoying. in the case of dcs and cod, it was not presented as exaggerated. Did... did you even read it? Edited October 16, 2020 by Tuesday 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites
216th_Jordan 1283 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, 2dLt_Schonfeld said: Not sure if i got this, keeping the current physiology model had more votes but the ones who voted for changes, won? sorry but It looks like an U.S presidential election. I wonder if there will be another research if the "Press-to-win-boys" start whining again. No, more in-depth data won. The poll was just an assessment to see if action was needed or not, not a democratic election over what should happen. So quite a lot of people were not happy with the results and in turn a more realistic implementation was researched and put into place. 3 7 Link to post Share on other sites
1CGS AnPetrovich 2520 Posted October 16, 2020 Author 1CGS Share Posted October 16, 2020 37 minutes ago, =RvE=Windmills said: how much roughly does a 15 degree angle benefit the pilot? Since a seat back angle affects a hydrostatic blood pressure due to change of a height of brain above a heart, the math gives: 1/cos(15°) = 1.035, which means 3.5% of increasing. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
THERION 1204 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warjunkie_VR said: I think this physiology is grossly exaggerated. The books say that the Luftwaffe had take-off and landing problems with the 109 because of the narrow wheelbase and that the pilots were trained less and less because they had to get to the front quickly. The fact that you were constantly in a coma while cornering in the air fight, there is nothing in it. if the g forces were really such a strong factor, they would have reported about it. for a boom and zoom hunter, this strong physiology is absolutely annoying. in the case of dcs and cod, it was not presented as exaggerated. They all lived in a different time period - nobody was complaining about fatigue or any other inconveniences. It is well known that pilots were absolutely exhausted after dogfighting. We simply can't imagine that nobody was complaining. If I compare our youth today - they rather quickly begin to moan, when they have to do a short walk with a small backpack with a tiny, healthy lunch and maybe a blanket to avoid catching a cold when sitting on the floor for a pick-nick... 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Barnacles 767 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 55 minutes ago, 3./JG15_Kampf said: With the new physiology of the pilot, which will be implemented soon, it will take into account the inclination of the pilot's position. It would be interesting to know the angle of each aircraft Does anyone have data on each of the aircraft? Macch and MIG 3 is already indicated in today's DD Sorry my english (google translator) These drawings may not be accurate though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
1CGS AnPetrovich 2520 Posted October 16, 2020 Author 1CGS Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, hsthhsth said: My question for this subject: what happens to the flight controls (stick & rudder) during the different stages? Do they stay as they were at the beginning or will the resume to central position or is this also depending on the plane? A pilot takes his hands off the controls when he gets LOC. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
71st_AH_Mastiff 680 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) Yanking and banking no more!!! With out penalties. Going to make for a much smarter dogfight. Edited October 16, 2020 by 71st_AH_Mastiff Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zigrat 75 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I am very impressed with your attention on the AnPetrovich; this is a wonderful post and I am very excited to try it out. I also want to complement you on the post itself, your depth of research and explanation, including your personal experiences in aerobatic planes. The changes you describe are EXACTLY what I was hoping for. Between the recent improvements to the visualization (which I believe are more "true to life" now and also the improvements to the physiology model I am very impressed with your listening to the community to make changes that improve the simulation.. which is what we all want. Thank you! PS I know that WW2 understandably gets more attention these days but as a old ROF and new FC customer I hope some day you are given time to work on FC.. the damage model there still is terribly broken and is driving many players like myself to no longer play it, as its just not fun. I hope you can make some time to give the same attention to detail to the FC damage model! 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Alonzo 2251 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 This is fantastic. Thank you very much AnPetrovich for all your hard work. I know it is a lot of research material, probably many hundreds of pages, and a lot of effort to do this. I am very excited about trying the new model. As an occasional Tempest pilot, I hope that I might kill myself a little less often in that particular airplane! 😉 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites
No_Face 82 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Simply incredible. 😮 All this work provided. It was a real pleasure to read this DD. Congratulations to the team and thank you. ❤️ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicP 28 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Amazing effort and thank you for the detailed report. Very few developers go to these lengths to improve their product and it's a treat to see in these testing times. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
CountZero 1965 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Good to see up-down pilot posibilitys are also getting adjusted in G changes, from poll resolts i expected things will just stay same as most selected 1. Link to post Share on other sites
J2_Bidu 445 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I loved your rigorous approach. Good job! Link to post Share on other sites
JG300_Winterz 96 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Looks like a nice change even if I didn't encounter much problems with g-loc. Cant wait to get my hands on this and try it out. Link to post Share on other sites
US213_Talbot 1337 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Thank you very much for your work and write up. I enjoyed reading that. I look forward to seeing its effects in FC. I echo the sentiments of others in regards the the FC DM. There is no one, save for a regular dozen, that fly FC online anymore. This is just 4 -6 months from packed servers with wait lists. I hope you guys can find just a little time to sort it out and return life to it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ACG_Talisman 553 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Thank you very much for all the time and effort you have put in and for your excellent communication with the community on this topic. Happy landings, 56RAF_Talisman 1 Link to post Share on other sites
VBF-12_KW 436 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I love the attention to detail and focus on continuing improvement! Has any thought been given to making the G-suit in the American fighters a selectable mod? The P-51D for instance saw service with both the RAF and the 15th Air Force (in fact we have default skins for these) without G-suits. Likewise the vast majority of pilots probably didn’t have them yet in the summer of 1944 during Normandy (yeah, ours is a slightly later D-15, but it will almost certainly get used in earlier MP scenarios and SP missions). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RedKestrel 3553 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, 2dLt_Schonfeld said: Not sure if i got this, keeping the current physiology model had more votes but the ones who voted for changes, won? sorry but It looks like an U.S presidential election. I wonder if there will be another research if the "Press-to-win-boys" start whining again. You should read what he wrote. He looked at the comments and found that even many people who were happy with the pilot's G-resistance in general had specific things that they wanted modeled. So rather than just keep it the same or increase the resistance, they overhauled the whole thing to try and get it more correct. For example, in that poll I voted to keep the G-resistance the same but I wanted to see the push-pull effect better modeled. It's not as simple as a yes/no vote And within the thread good documentation was produced which has helped drive these changes- for a simulation, documentation>democracy anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SeaSerpent 967 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Gustaf said: Wow, you can't argue with this guy. That's point one. Point two is: If FFB sticks were available again, we would be in better able to sense and control our inputs which cause excessive G loads. You might look into the Simshaker software by a guy named Andre. This software reads events from the sim and sends input to either a Jetseat or a Bass Shaker. It's not force feedback obviously, but it definitely is feedback. i.e. You can tune it to provide tactile input based on G load. Absent Force Feedback resistance on the stick itself, this is the next best thing, imo. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RedKestrel 3553 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, AnPetrovich said: I bet nobody will enjoy such a simulator or play any longer than the first try. Certainly there are some here who I am sure would enjoy the suffering! But I will stick with being a 1G Comfy Chair pilot. Link to post Share on other sites
=RS=Stix_09 186 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Can't please everyone, there is always a sad face Looking forward to trying out the new model. Very detailed explanation , its clear a lot of work and though was made on this, thankyou. Link to post Share on other sites
Alonzo 2251 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 35 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said: You might look into the Simshaker software by a guy named Andre. This software reads events from the sim and sends input to either a Jetseat or a Bass Shaker. It's not force feedback obviously, but it definitely is feedback. i.e. You can tune it to provide tactile input based on G load. Absent Force Feedback resistance on the stick itself, this is the next best thing, imo. Big +1 on this. I get a nice stick rumble as I approach the stall, and a different g-rumble effect as I'm pulling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora_Stealth 177 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Wow, having read that diary I'm... pretty speechless really! ha ha That's an astounding amount of research and detail to get through, to model it all - as well as explain to us! thanks so much for focusing on this @AnPetrovich with the team (and testers!) and responding to the community feedback so thoroughly. Really appreciate it and very much looking forward to trying it out! As always, thank you 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hanu 328 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) Thank you! I really appreciate this kind of a scientific approach where you take account of multiple paths to observe the situation and keep the eyes open to specialists but also opinions. Very very rare nowadays (as only opinions seem to matter). I'll raise my glass of Beluga Vodka to you guys there! Edited October 16, 2020 by Hanu Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingNutcase 203 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Thank you Mr Solomykin, Floppy_sock and all others involved. And a deeeeeep level of dedication oozing out of this DD. Link to post Share on other sites
sonicapollo 30 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 The post read like a massive reply to the post I had in the other thread. Outstanding. I either had my post read or a bunch of people were saying the same thing I was saying. (Most likely the latter) Link to post Share on other sites
Missionbug 442 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Great read, very well written, look forward to trying the new version out, thank you very much, really appreciated. Hurricane cockpit looks really good even through the fog of the effects. Take care and be safe. Wishing you all the very best, Pete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Avimimus 620 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Anyone else feel like we're a bit undeserving of this level of love and science? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Trooper117 2581 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 No... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gambit21 5406 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, Avimimus said: Anyone else feel like we're a bit undeserving of this level of love and science? Some of you are - I fully deserve it. 😝 5 Link to post Share on other sites
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