Developer Diary 263 - Discussion

[AnPetrovich 2520]

 

5 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:

263

Salute pilots! 

It’s been a year since we introduced a detailed human physiology model in our simulator.

 

<...>

 

The new pilot physiology model is currently undergoing a detailed and meticulous beta test.

 

<...>

 

As a result

 

Ultimately, the new improved version of the pilot's physiology model turned out to be more interesting, detailed, taking into account new important factors and, as a consequence, more “vital” and corresponding to reality. All tests, including the ones with the participation of real pilots, indicate that this model will be the next important step in the development of our simulator, and the realism of air battles will again be raised to the next step with it.

Full news - here is a full text and visual materials

[Pierre64 746]

Interesting...and illustrated with 2 Hurricane cockpit screenshots 😉

[Enceladus 469]

Hey. That’s the Hurricane Cockpit right there

 

Great job devs for all of your work.

Keep it up😇.

[[DBS]Browning 1006]

Wonderful to read the process in such a detailed way.

I feel certain that this will set a new standard for flight simulation. Bravo!

 

As someone who was happy with the old system, I am very, very happy with the changes talked about.

Edited October 16, 2020 by [DBS]Browning

[CanadaOne 1974]

Damn, saw the "Announcement" heading and thought we had us a plane. 

 

As far as the pilot effects go, what we have now is still the best I've ever seen.

[Thad 1614]

Salutations,

 

I trust that the same effects will actually apply to the AI pilots also. 

[Psyrion 472]

Very well writte, thanks.

[unreasonable 3160]

Terrific write up, thanks. Looking forward to passing out in new and unexpected ways.

[itsbillyfrazier 79]

A very interesting read, thanks Andrey.

 

I love the amount of research and passion shown by the devs and the community in this great sim. 

 

The current physiology model worked well enough for me, but anything that takes us a step closer to realism is always welcome. 

 

Well done all, i look forward to checking out the progress.

 

Many thanks.

[messsucher 232]

20 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

I trust that the same effects will actually apply to the AI pilots also. 

 

I would say ace pilots should be adjusted to stand G forces better than an average pilot. Maybe they are aces because they were able to stand G forces better? Or maybe they have learned to stand them better? Maybe they have learned to plan their flying better? There are arguments why ace CPU pilots should be able to stand the G forces better. If G forces affect at all to CPU pilots.

 

*

 

Developer Diary was great reading - can't praise it enough, so wont even try - and I am very happy that the company tell so clearly about their development visions in practice and caters to different groups of players.

Edited October 16, 2020 by messsucher

[Barnacles 761]

1 minute ago, messsucher said:

 

I would say ace pilots should be adjusted to stand G forces better than an average pilot. Maybe they are aces because they were able to stand G forces better? Or maybe they have learned to stand them better? Maybe they have learned to plan their flying better? There are arguments why ace CPU pilots should be able to stand the G forces better. If G forces affect at all to CPU pilots.

 

Other than that was great reading - can't praise it enough, so wont even try - and I am very happy that the company tell so clearly about their development visions in practice and caters to different groups of players.

They did a poll, I think, and most people wanted the pilot in game to represent an average pilot, rather than an ultra experienced ace.

[ZachariasX 2502]

Awesome!! @AnPetrovich, what a great write-up! Clearly, your work keeps this game series top notch. Great that you have the opportunity to fly the Yak-52. Nothing better than a shot at the real thing for sanity checking what data (and opinion) leads one to believe.

 

I am especially keen to see how the changes are reflected in FC, where g effects are suprisingly frequent with some aircraft, even at low altitude.

 

But let me ask a question. In FC (or on planes without oxygen system in general) is there a variance of g tolerance with altitude? In your text, I didn‘t see a mention.

 

 

[beneG 51]

Everything what applies to real player applyes to bots too. But it doesn't mean that they can manage it correctly. At least for now.

[messsucher 232]

21 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

They did a poll, I think, and most people wanted the pilot in game to represent an average pilot, rather than an ultra experienced ace.

 

Yeah, but are there not different skill levels of CPU pilots? Like easy, normal, and hard? Hard or Ace level CPU pilots should be able to stand more G forces, and easy level CPU pilots maybe a bit less.

 

Edit: That poll result I just looked at was great, people wanted to be normal people, not some super human face rollers.

Edited October 16, 2020 by messsucher

[Barnacles 761]

If anyone's wondering about the angles for the seats: 

AnPetrovich has said the Mc 202 is 0 degrees,
Mustang looks like 18 degrees

 

 

.109 looks like 13 degrees

 Spit 13
Hurricane 18 degrees
 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by 71st_AH_Barnacles

[Varibraun 262]

 I myself tried to do it in real flight. But it's really damn unpleasant, and I prefer to not do that anymore.

 

@AnPetrovich Wow...that is dedication to your profession for our benefit.  You sir are a Rockstar of the virtual and real sky!! 

 

THANK YOU for all of your research and work, I can't wait to try it out.  

[messsucher 232]

2 minutes ago, beneG said:

Everything what applies to real player applyes to bots too. But it doesn't mean that they can manage it correctly. At least for now.

 

That's great to hear! And now knowing this I would suggest to consider making some adjustments in CPU pilots ability to stand G forces. Like "hard difficulty" level pilots being able to stand better G forces. Also I would suggest about thinking making AI pilots a bit varied in their ability to stand G forces, that is some randomization to their ability to stand G forces. This would make CPU pilots less like clones and be realistic also in a way that there was beautiful bell curve in how pilots stand G forces.

 

[AnPetrovich 2520]

6 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Awesome!! @AnPetrovich, what a great write-up! Clearly, your work keeps this game series top notch. Great that you have the opportunity to fly the Yak-52. Nothing better than a shot at the real thing for sanity checking what data (and opinion) leads one to believe.

 

I am especially keen to see how the changes are reflected in FC, where g effects are suprisingly frequent with some aircraft, even at low altitude.

 

But let me ask a question. In FC (or on planes without oxygen system in general) is there a variance of g tolerance with altitude? In your text, I didn‘t see a mention.

Thank you for your warm words!
Yes, there is a decreasing G-tolerance due to hypoxia (and wounds as well). The new model will keep this feature, however calculates it different way.

[6./ZG26_Custard 1819]

8 minutes ago, messsucher said:

I would say ace pilots should be adjusted to stand G forces better than an average pilot. Maybe they are aces because they were able to stand G forces better? Or maybe they have learned to stand them better?

I think what is important to consider is that modern pilots have a much better training system for withstanding G than the average WWII pilot. Adding to this lifestyle in the 1940 was different to what it's like in the 21st century. Many pilots smoked and drank and you would also have war stress and lack of sleep etc, particularly for late war German pilots.

  After having tested the new model for a number of days now I would have to say that this is undoubtedly one of the most comprehensive and complex G modelling systems that has been undertaken for any flight sim to date. Many thanks to @AnPetrovich for his incredibly hard work on this. 

[messsucher 232]

6 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

I think what is important to consider is that modern pilots have a much better training system for withstanding G than the average WWII pilot. Adding to this lifestyle in the 1940 was different to what it's like in the 21st century. Many pilots smoked and drank and you would also have war stress and lack of sleep etc, particularly for late war German pilots.

  After having tested the new model for a number of days now I would have to say that this is undoubtedly one of the most comprehensive and complex G modelling systems that has been undertaken for any flight sim to date. Many thanks to @AnPetrovich for his incredibly hard work on this. 

 

Yeah, you are probs very right about that. The numbers should be maybe adjusted a bit down of the research numbers.

[IckyATLAS 659]

It seems that a lot of work has been done here, to try to be as realistic as possible. 

In our static seats we cannot feel the g-forces and we may consider the limit being the planes structural limit.

Even in standard simulators with moving seats only short timed g forces can be simulated. Otherwise you need centrifugal simulators and that is a completely other story.

So the more the physiology can be visually simulated (with effect on the plane when due) the better the flight experience.

In certain severe cases the pilots would not recover and enter the death spiral and either dislocate the plane wing parts and/or crash.

Thanks to the devs for all these efforts.

 

 

[mattebubben 114]

But when my Hurri though? 😉

 

Jokes aside.

Great Write up!.

 

This is one of the things i love the most about You guys (Especially lately) is how good you are at communicating with the public.

 

You listen,you then investigate and do research based on your findings and then you act on the new information,

but not only that you also explain to the public what you are doing and why you are doing it!

Its awesome and i love you guys for it!

Edited October 16, 2020 by mattebubben

[Boomerang 502]

Thank you for the continued improvements and thank you to Floppy_Sock for his investigation and findings.

These are the things that make combat flight even better.

 

[ZachariasX 2502]

7 minutes ago, AnPetrovich said:

Thank you for your warm words!
Yes, there is a decreasing G-tolerance due to hypoxia (and wounds as well). The new model will keep this feature, however calculates it different way.

Great! Professionally, I work very closely with a leading research group that does work on altitude induced hypoxia. If you are interested, I can ask them what the latest whisdom on that is. I mean, if that professor is sending one student after another in the high alps, we might also get some fringe benefit from that, right? As I wasn‘t really expecting such an extensive overhaul of that part of the game, I never felt like pestering them about this specific topic.

 

If I get data that could be useful to you, I‘d send it by PM if that is ok and you can make of it as you please.

[FlyingShark 326]

That was a long but interesting DD.

 

Have a nice day and thank you.

 

[kestrel79 256]

Wow very hardcore update! Love seeing the passion and dedication the team has into getting stuff like this right. No other sim goes into this kind of detail to make things as real as possible well done all can't wait to fly it!

[=VARP=Ribbon 1099]

Hats down and huuuge thank you!!!  

 

S!

[kendo 503]

Outstanding work! Goes way beyond the changes I thought were coming.

 

Looking forward to trying it out.

[=gRiJ=Roman- 667]

A great further step to more realism. 

[3./JG15_Kampf 181]

With the new physiology of the pilot, which will be implemented soon, it will take into account the inclination of the pilot's position. It would be interesting to know the angle of each aircraft
Does anyone have data on each of the aircraft?
Macch and MIG 3 is already indicated in today's DD
Sorry my english (google translator)

[SAG 397]

I don't mind these additions to the sim but I don't understand how they have the time to do this and don't have the time to fix simple things like the rotation of the camera in VR for turrets, or dissapearing objects.

I know that i'm in a niche within a niche within another, but I have bought everything they've put out to show support, but I won't be buying any other land stuff (like the AA) guns since I can't really use them.

[E69_geramos109 860]

Amacing Job, research and interaction with the comunity. All this deep work is what puts the game in other level. So glad to see that changes from the team since some time already.

Big thanks

👏👏👏

[LF_Gallahad 1818]

Congratulations Petrovich, you've outdone yourself!

Also, what is that Hurri doing there? 😄

[40plus 1021]

Holy hell that was a lot of detailed info. I would have been satisfied with "we fixed it, here's some cool screen shots"

This is so much better!

 

Thanks.

[=RvE=Windmills 335]

Honestly, this sounds like really good changes.

 

You say the seat angle affects thing more noticeably, how much roughly does a 15 degree angle benefit the pilot? I thought from previous discussions the effect was limited even for extreme angles like in the F16.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by =RvE=Windmills

[3./JG15_Kampf 181]

Great work. Congratulations

[Caudron431Rafale 242]

This is a fantastic DD! Pilot physiology added so much more fun in this simulator, i cannot wait to try the new development of it.

Your dedication to all these important details are what make this sim so good!

 

Your guys at 1CGS are fantastic!

 

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95 1031]

Great write up, thanks for the detailed work, quality checks and information.

[=FEW=unicus 10]

 Excellent work. I am extremely pleased with how you guys have listened to the community lately, and adjusted the game mechanics accordingly. I got 800hrs in this game and the vast majority of those hours was before the g-load system was implemented and the spotting went bad. It just wasnt enjoyable and I lost interest. Now I am feeling the urge to fly like I used to

 

As a medical doctor I found this announcement very interesting as its actually kind of a research project, and everything we do in medicine is based on research. Great to see this approach in the virtual flying world

[hsthhsth 25]

Great read up! Very interesting with this very informational explanation.

 

My question for this subject: what happens to the flight controls (stick & rudder) during the different stages? Do they stay as they were at the beginning or will the resume to central position or is this  also depending on the plane?