3 issues from a SP perspective

[Dagwoodyt 106]

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Posted September 30

Dynamic Singleplayer Mission

 

 

This is the previously released DynMis pack reworked into a standalone exe-file.

In this new format there are some pros and cons.

 

The obvious downside is having to download and run an executable file from a stranger, which to many out there is a big no-no (me included).
Built in C# and on a Windows 10 there might be issues for Win7 users - if so, it's way outside my knowledge span and there's probably nothing I can do to help.

 

So might this 3rd party solution represent done, done and done for the DCG that is on list of proposed future game features from August 14?

[Buzzsaw 1435]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:18 AM, Mysticpuma said:

As you'll see, there are 30 replies and not one from TFS. Single Player has never been their focus and most likely never will be. Check their FB page, lots of posts about joining the online events, tumbleweed regarding Single Player experience. Ai seems to have been given a tweak but that is because it should help with online play. The sad fact is, Single Player has always been the bastard child of CloD for TFS and it looks like it always will be.

Team Fusion implemented dozens of improvements in the AI behaviour for TOBRUK.

 

We included multiple Single Player campaigns with the game... and will be adding additional new campaigns in the near future.  (upcoming Ramrods and Rodeos)

 

Regarding the initial posters complaints:

 

-  The biggest complaint prior to the release of TF 5.0 was that the AI were not competitive enough and were too easy to shoot down.  We spent a good deal of time improving their reactions to being attacked.  And the Campaign builders tried to make sure the aircraft in the campaigns were a challenge. 

 

It may be that you feel they are too difficult or that they perform better than historical, but in fact all types do not exceed the historical testing for their types.  It is also quite possible to go into the campaign files and adjust the level of skill for the AI aircraft in a given mission... to the point they no longer will be as much of a challenge.

[Mysticpuma 1230]

22 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

•  

•  

Posted September 30

Dynamic Singleplayer Mission

 

 

This is the previously released DynMis pack reworked into a standalone exe-file.

In this new format there are some pros and cons.

 

The obvious downside is having to download and run an executable file from a stranger, which to many out there is a big no-no (me included).
Built in C# and on a Windows 10 there might be issues for Win7 users - if so, it's way outside my knowledge span and there's probably nothing I can do to help.

 

So might this 3rd party solution represent done, done and done for the DCG that is on list of proposed future game features from August 14?

 

Would be great to see something like this as an official add-on and including in the games interface like the old QMB......for Single Player

[Arthur-A 459]

11 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

but in fact all types do not exceed the historical testing for their types

How can you explain the phenomenon when the AI aircraft of the same type as the player's (P-40 for example) rolls several times faster at the same airspeed? When I was chasing the AI we were both flying with roughly the same airspeed and started rolling in the same direction. While I only rolled about 45-60 degrees the AI made a complete 360 roll. Sorry, but this is not challenging, this is just spoling the user experience. Challenging AI is when they perform clever tactics to get on your 6, or prevent you from getting on their 6 (which is not a challenge for me), but not when they just have UFO super abilities

[Barnacles 761]

@Arthur-A said pretty much what I've found @Buzzsaw. Like I said earlier, I have found the SP campaign to be very nice, and broadly the AI has some excellent characteristics. But if you just tweaked the AI so it didn't do a weird rapid oscillation about the roll axis, (which as far as I can see a human player cannot get anywhere near replicating) that would be a massive improvement IMO.

[Oyster_KAI 1459]

Following @Arthur-A 's topic, I'm sure the AI need some improvement. 
I just did a test. I hit a hurricane at 500 meters, make his engine stopped, and I continued to follow him, he could still make many rolls, dives, and even climbs😲
when he slowly approached the ground, at least 2~3 minutes had passed, and he did not crash, but successfully did a belly landing...
The AI can continue to maneuver with almost no energy consumption. Although we know that AI can cheat, this is obviously too much...

Edited December 1, 2020 by Oyster_KAI

[Buzzsaw 1435]

1 hour ago, Oyster_KAI said:

Following @Arthur-A 's topic, I'm sure the AI need some improvement. 
I just did a test. I hit a hurricane at 500 meters, make his engine stopped, and I continued to follow him, he could still make many rolls, dives, and even climbs😲
when he slowly approached the ground, at least 2~3 minutes had passed, and he did not crash, but successfully did a belly landing...
The AI can continue to maneuver with almost no energy consumption. Although we know that AI can cheat, this is obviously too much...

Thanks for your comments.

 

In order for us to actually know what issues might exist we would need video of these events.

[Dagwoodyt 106]

If none of the TF testers over the years have observed the AI behaviors reported here then a few videos are unlikely to move the ball in either direction. Maybe better to just recognize the status quo. It is possible to fiddle with AI skill levels forever so users might possibly find a combination that works for them. Whether a magic combination exists and works similarly for friendly and enemy AI IDK.

[Missionbug 433]

20 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Thanks for your comments.

 

In order for us to actually know what issues might exist we would need video of these events.

 

You guys could just pick any campaign in SP and play it, try the one for the Hurricane and see how annoying always having to get rid of the bombs is first and then once you finally get your flight to actually follow you and they become airborne you can find the enemy and try to get up close and personal with them, no need for a video to see what us players are talking about just use your own stuff, easy.

 

Please note I am not complaining specifically about the Hurricane campaign here, the issues are there in some form or another in all, this just happens to be the one I most want to play and that makes it particularly annoying because I fly rarely and am encountering these things in all, the campaign builders have to work with what they have.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Missionbug

[Oyster_KAI 1459]

It's not easy to copy a engine stop scene. 
This video is about a dead pilot can control the plane, it doesn't happen every time, but the bug does exist.
The hurricane pilot dead at 1:26, then he turn 180° with dive, climb.......dive.... turn.....climb.....

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Oyster_KAI

[Thundercracker 18]

I always assumed that was because the aircraft was flying without pilot input. I remember seeing the same thing in il2 46 and have watched my own kite do it if I've bailed out on the level, eventually it finds its own path to earth. 

 

Although I have seen the behaviour others have mentioned, especially the continuous looping bullet sensing ai. 

[danperin 44]

@Oyster_KAI I can clearly see it's not being controlled by the pilot, don't understand your point...Set a good trimming for your plane, make a glente dive and bail out. The plane will do some turns, loopings, maybe roll, till it hits the ground. Blitz is a full simulator, not a game with scripted actions to simulate a specific scene, mate. Like, get hit, get some hollywoodish explosions with the plane stalling with the Jericho Trumpets from the Stuka on the background.

 

IRL there's even a WWII story where a B-17 landed by itself with any crew inside. 😕

 

Here: 

 

 

 

And there's more, if the body of the pilot lays over the joystick you'll see some serious loopings before the crash.

Edited December 2, 2020 by danperin

[Oyster_KAI 1459]

The trim effect in Clod is more than that of GB.
Considering the speed increase with the fallen, after the trim balance is broken, it's indeed possible to climb again.

I haven't seen anything similar in other SIMs, maybe it is all due to my own ignorance.

[danperin 44]

1 hour ago, Oyster_KAI said:

The trim effect in Clod is more than that of GB.
Considering the speed increase with the fallen, after the trim balance is broken, it's indeed possible to climb again.

I haven't seen anything similar in other SIMs, maybe it is all due to my own ignorance.

 

Don't say that, mate. It really feels there's a pilot controlling the plane. The Cliffs engine simulates some specific details you'd be very surprised! The variables on this game engine are insane 😶

Edited December 2, 2020 by danperin

[Buzzsaw 1435]

As has been mentioned, the aircraft in the game are trimmed to give elevator up when the stick is centered.

 

Aileron and Rudder are trimmed to give level flight at cruise speeds and settings... but at different speeds/settings, the trim is different.

 

That means on hands off stick, the aircraft will climb till it either stalls at the top of the climb or loops.

 

In the game when the pilot is dead, the stick returns to center point... and the trim does as well.

 

Re stick postion:  We cannot model all the possible situations where a pilot's dead hands might hold a stick in one position or another or a pilot's dead body might push the stick to one position or another.  In any case, in most situations the pilot is held in position by his harness and his hands fall free.  We make the assumption the stick returns to center.

 

The throttle and pitch settings remain the same as the moment of death.

 

If the plane is at max power/rpm at the moment of death this will give a lot of power and energy to maneuver.

 

And the natural trim status of the plane is inclined to climb... and that increases with speed, it will be quite common to see an aircraft which is nose down at the moment of death accelerate in a dive and the pull up into a climb as the speed increases and then potentially loop.  You could see this looping behaviour continue for quite a bit of time... usually with a gradual loss of altitude till the inevitable crash.  Historically during WWII this behaviour has been observed commonly in aircraft as large as B-17's.

 

In addition as speed changes, the rudder and aileron trim goes out of level... and you might see the aircraft roll right or left... or skid.

 

All of these are natural behaviors of an aircraft in flight... they are designed into the aerodynamics of the aircraft by the Flight engineers.

 

In many cases, what you are seeing when a pilot dies is the above.

 

As a test, in a climb or dive try holding the stick in center position and watching what the aircraft does.  (may need some patience)

[No.54_Reddog 105]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:14 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

"I love the game but I would like these items addressed at some point"

 

Hey guys, do not hesitate to use the bug tracker for such things. In the bug tracker there are two main section: one if for reports of bugs and the other one is for requests.

 

And if you're really lucky after 4 years, they'll still be labelled as "new" and you'll be banned from the steam forum for saying so.

[343KKT_Kintaro 342]

On 12/21/2020 at 12:50 AM, No.54_Reddog said:

 

And if you're really lucky after 4 years, they'll still be labelled as "new" and you'll be banned from the steam forum for saying so.

 

 

Wrong, I me myself posted bugs and requests on their bug tracker and TFS brought satisfactory issues via official patches.

 

Haters gonna hate.

[Deltahawkoz 6]

Some interesting points raised here.  Having played the heck out of DF since getting I can say that the glass is half full.  Some of the experiences in campaign have left me going wow..others not so..it may be my ignorance..at times it felt as though it was me against the world..despite my wingies being there..they would ignore opfor..I tried radio..etc..but no go..I would like to be able to order Redfor to attack ..and so on..both ground and air..etc..very mixed results...again I found that aspect of sp dissapointing..is there a detailed list of all commands that can be given?? 

[Sokol1 2075]

1 - AI wingamans follow your orders (TAB>7>...) in Single Missions started in the air, if you are Squadron leader or if are the leader of a pair can giver orders for your wingman.

 

2 - AI wingmans don't "see" you in Single Missions with take-off until the enemy are near. 

"Band-aid" solution: engage AI Autopilot (Toggle AI Control) until first waypoint, then try control AI, e.g. giving formation commands, what AI follow OK, as well formation spacing.

 

3 - In combat AI may follow your orders for Attack bombers, Attack fighters (since this is supposed a "B of B" game, attack against ground targets are not considered).

* If the AI Wingmans are close to you - seems in a 2/3 KM radius, and if the target are visible in your windscreen.

* Eventually may achieve that AI wingman's attacking bombers change for fighters. Apparently their priority is bombers ("B of B" thing again?).

 

3 - AI wingmans follow the command "Abort to mission", leaving formation and returning to base, what is useful in RTB for avoid AI doing CFIT. I have impression that this command is inverted with "Return to base" - that actually do nothing.

 

Basically is this, and the "may" show that nothing is warranted, you need try,  may work, may not. "It's CloD!" way.😜

Edited December 29, 2020 by Sokol1

[Deltahawkoz 6]

Lol..the "Clod way"..I like it!