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Just now, =VARP=Ribbon said:

You're taking it out on personal and emotional level!

 

Eh...no.

I'm talking about it on an empirical level.

 

Just now, =VARP=Ribbon said:

 

What seems not true for you is reality for some others.

 

...and visa versa

 

You're right I did take you a bit out of context - didn't mean to.

 

I love how on the internet everything is "fanboyism" simply because someone has experiential data.

I've had both Intel and AMD systems.

 

Good luck with your build.

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8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Eh...no.

I'm talking about it on an empirical level.

 

 

...and visa versa

 

You're right I did take you a bit out of context - didn't mean to.

 

I love how on the internet everything is "fanboyism" simply because someone has experiential data.

I've had both Intel and AMD systems.

 

Good luck with your build.

Thnx :)

Just trying to avoid usual interent amd/intel wars......i had amd/ati config before current one so i'm not even 1% biased toward either one......if G2 didn't have problems with amd mobos my pick would be 5800x for sure (new tech and a bit better overall), aside G2 VR my recommendation would be 5600x/5800x for everyone from reasons above.

 

When i complete my build i'll post my benchmarks....managed to get evga 3080 ftw3 few hours ago :)

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5 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Thnx :)

Just trying to avoid usual interent amd/intel wars......i had amd/ati config before current one so i'm not even 1% biased toward either one......if G2 didn't have problems with amd mobos my pick would be 5800x for sure (new tech and a bit better overall), aside G2 VR my recommendation would be 5600x/5800x for everyone from reasons above.

 

When i complete my build i'll post my benchmarks....managed to get evga 3080 ftw3 few hours ago :)

 

How did you manage the 3080?!

Nice

 

I’ve been looking every day for both my 5800x and a 3080 or 6800xt.

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55 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

How did you manage the 3080?!

Nice

 

I’ve been looking every day for both my 5800x and a 3080 or 6800xt.

I had luck, it usually "evaporates" in minutes by the time you reach checkout!

However i paid 100€ more than evga.eu is charging in their queue.

EU is even worse than U.S when it comes to pc components restock.

Try to find 850w psu, i7 or 5800x.....all out of stock!

Every once in a while there are some 3080s in stock but they are usually zotac or palit.... msi, asus or evga are hard to impossible to catch.

And i haven't seen 6800x not once!

 

Good luck in your search, i heard bigger stocks are expected by end of the December!

 

Edit: I forgot the main thing.....gpu tracker!

It lists main retailers while less familiar ones i checked manually twice a day.

Edited by =VARP=Ribbon
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S!

 

I wonder what those guys are doing in their tests, having driver issues etc with AMD? I had very few issues over the years and in most cases it was my fault. Regarding VR + AMD setups..tested Varjo VR on my previous system and it was plug & play. No issues either, on a X570 mobo. Anyways have to be without a system until next year :( But it will be an AMD build as I have been happy with previous AMD setups as well. Used Intel and nVidia too, no complaints there either.

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S!

 

@HunDread Short supply = inflates prices. Not that retailers complain about it. But now for example in GPU market a 6800XT costs more than the official MSRP of coming 6900XT....Go figure. Scalpers do not make the situation any easier. So in a way happy that building a new rig is not my number 1 agenda at the moment :D

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32 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

@HunDread Short supply = inflates prices. Not that retailers complain about it. But now for example in GPU market a 6800XT costs more than the official MSRP of coming 6900XT....Go figure. Scalpers do not make the situation any easier. So in a way happy that building a new rig is not my number 1 agenda at the moment 😄

 

Thanks. I can wait too so I will wait.

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Stuffing all hardware releases in the same two months also created a lot of shortage, because multiple products use the same 7nm TSMC process and have to split production between new Ryzens, new play stations, new x-box and new Radeon cards. 

It was a very bad idea to launch all this products in the same time.

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Amazon Canada has - or has had - the 3060ti, the 3070, the 3080 and the 3090, all for about twice what they should cost. 

 

I really wonder if this whole shortage and inflated prices thing is just supply and demand or if there is collusion and criminality afoot in the mix. Like a tech guy said, "making video cards is like printing money." I'll bet there's some dirty business going on.

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14 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

Amazon Canada has - or has had - the 3060ti, the 3070, the 3080 and the 3090, all for about twice what they should cost. 

 

I really wonder if this whole shortage and inflated prices thing is just supply and demand or if there is collusion and criminality afoot in the mix. Like a tech guy said, "making video cards is like printing money." I'll bet there's some dirty business going on.

 

At the very least resellers are surely not eagerly F5-ing their supply websites waiting to be able to lower prices.  

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On 12/2/2020 at 10:55 AM, HunDread said:

What's up with the EU price of the 5600x? It's more like 500 USD here than 299. Is it just the initial shortage and prices may consolidate later? 

In Poland 470 USD for 5600x , are you saying it should cost 299 USD in eu?

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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37 minutes ago, HunDread said:

 

At the very least resellers are surely not eagerly F5-ing their supply websites waiting to be able to lower prices.  

 

There's definitely some dirt going on. All that cash being made on the side, there are people on the inside who have their hands in the cookie jar. Millions and tens of millions stand to be hot pocketed with a super hot commodity. It's not like this is anything new.

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1 hour ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

In Poland 470 USD for 5600x , are you saying it should cost 299 USD in eu?

 

Yes more like around 300 EUR. Usually 300 USD translates to 300 EUR in this great world we live in, but it definitely should not be 500 USD. 

 

EDIT: I checked in proshop Poland and it is 1400 PLN which is around 370-380 USD if my math is correct: https://www.proshop.pl/?s=5600x . This is not a bad price at this moment compared to other EU prices. As I see proshop is one of the few that keeps it relatively low for now. Too bad they are not doing business in Hungary.

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34 minutes ago, HunDread said:

EDIT: I checked in proshop Poland and it is 1400 PLN which is around 370-380 USD if my math is correct: https://www.proshop.pl/?s=5600x . This is not a bad price at this moment compared to other EU prices. As I see proshop is one of the few that keeps it relatively low for now. Too bad they are not doing business in Hungary.

 

They are taking pre orders for that 5600x where it should be available on 29.12.2020, if it would be true ... anyway I was saying what is available to buy now!

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6 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

 

They are taking pre orders for that 5600x where it should be available on 29.12.2020, if it would be true ... anyway I was saying what is available to buy now!

 

That probably explains why they are selling it cheaper.

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Not only can I not find a 3070 to buy, I can't find a 2070 Super or 2060 Super. I'm not about to give the scalpers / resellers any money, so I'll just coast with the 970 a while longer. My money ended up going for a motherboard/CPU upgrade (ASUS TUF Z490-PLUS WIFI and a Core i5 10600K), now we'll see what's available in the spring.

To add to the discussions about what's going on, this is not just happening with video cards. Try buying a popular lego set, Amazon will be full of resellers with a 25%+ markup and Amazon itself and even lego.com will be OOS. Or buy sports tickets to a popular team. Or concert tickets. Or...

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5 hours ago, grcurmudgeon said:

Not only can I not find a 3070 to buy, I can't find a 2070 Super or 2060 Super. I'm not about to give the scalpers / resellers any money, so I'll just coast with the 970 a while longer. My money ended up going for a motherboard/CPU upgrade (ASUS TUF Z490-PLUS WIFI and a Core i5 10600K), now we'll see what's available in the spring.

To add to the discussions about what's going on, this is not just happening with video cards. Try buying a popular lego set, Amazon will be full of resellers with a 25%+ markup and Amazon itself and even lego.com will be OOS. Or buy sports tickets to a popular team. Or concert tickets. Or...

 

Exactly! And as to concert tickets, Ticketmaster was busted running its own scalping ring. https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/

 

With millions and tens of millions of eazy-breazy-sleazy profits to be made, who would be surprised that some of the video card people are cutting themselves a slice of cheesecake on the side? Everyone agrees there are none to be had. The stores are out of stock from stem to stern.

 

But if you're willing to pay a 100% premium, well come into this dark alley and we can talk..

 

"Hey buddy, ya wanna buy a 3080?"

hqdefault.jpg

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3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Scalpers, scalpers everywhere!

 

Who wants to buy my MSI RTX 3080 Trio X Gaming?

 

1099€, with bill, golden chip from what I can tell, Germany/Denmark only. 

 

:biggrin:

 

There are guys on Fleabay selling pictures of 3060Ti cards for $350.

 

I'm telling you, man, corruption, collusion, and criminality is afoot. Someone is making mad cash on the side. 

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This may help some folks procure a Ryzen 5000 series- My pre-ordered 5800XT is shipping today from B&H and I noticed in some small print on my order page that restock was happening in 2 days. That was from Wed. so there may be some opportunities to order from several sources today or tomorrow. You may get stuck in an order queue for a while until your place in line comes up, my order was originally placed Nov. 5 and is just now being fulfilled, but at least you'll get MSRP and maybe like me free shipping too.

 

I also some mention on online tech sites of more Ryzen 5000 series supply hitting the retail outlets early this month.

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17 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

Ha!

 

The Ryzen 5600X is on sale at Newegg for only $700. The 5800X is on sale for $1000. The 10600K is $350 and the 10700K is $500.

 

Who would have thought Intel would be the new price champion? :P

 

My 10600K was $270 from Best Buy back at the beginning of November.

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and here I'm sitting with my oc'ed 8700k (5.1ghz) and oc'ed 2080ti (2100mhz) wondering if upgrading to 5900X is worth the effort and fps gains in IL2 in VR.

 

i need stable 90fps in VR on either Balanced or High with High shadows and High Clouds in a fur ball of 15-20 planes.  Is it even possible nowadays?

 

anyone? Bueller? bueller ?

 

 

Edited by 69th_Didney_World
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Just now, 69th_Didney_World said:

and here I'm sitting with my oc'ed 8700k (5.1ghz) and oc'ed 2080ti (2100mhz) wondering if upgrading to 5900X is worth the effort and fps gains in IL2.

 

i need stable 90fps on either Balanced or High with High shadows and High Clouds in a fur ball of 15-20 planes.  Is it even possible nowadays?

 

anyone? Bueller? bueller ?

 

 

Check the benchmark thread, I went from a 6700k@4.5ghz to a 5800x... massive gains, no regrets. I'm now GPU bound, so I can't test that scenario for you yet (can't find a 3080 :P)

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17 minutes ago, R3animate said:

 

 

Check the benchmark thread, I went from a 6700k@4.5ghz to a 5800x... massive gains, no regrets. I'm now GPU bound, so I can't test that scenario for you yet (can't find a 3080 :P)

 

i went from 6700k/1080ti to 8700k/2080ti two years ago and it was a substantial gain as well, from that experience I fully agree with your observations. Mine is a bit different..

 

yup, i'm waiting on Fenris to post his VR benchmarks...

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53 minutes ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

and here I'm sitting with my oc'ed 8700k (5.1ghz) and oc'ed 2080ti (2100mhz) wondering if upgrading to 5900X is worth the effort and fps gains in IL2 in VR.

 

i need stable 90fps in VR on either Balanced or High with High shadows and High Clouds in a fur ball of 15-20 planes.  Is it even possible nowadays?

 

anyone? Bueller? bueller ?

 

I have an 8086K @ 5.1ghz, 3800-CL16 memory, and (now) a 3080. I play on High settings with Ultra shadows and I think the CPU is still a bottleneck. It's mostly locked at 80hz on my Valve Index but I do get some single frame drops. Fenris has upgraded to a 5900X and I believe he is very happy with it, he's getting a solid, stable 90 FPS in Multiplayer. But you need to get everything right -- getting the memory wrong on the new AMD chips costs you a 10% CPU performance hit. I'm going to be looking at this again in January when (hopefully) prices have calmed down and the chips are actually available. Until then I'll see how my MP experience feels, I'm going to switch off the frame counter and just play.

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45 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

I have an 8086K @ 5.1ghz, 3800-CL16 memory, and (now) a 3080. I play on High settings with Ultra shadows and I think the CPU is still a bottleneck. It's mostly locked at 80hz on my Valve Index but I do get some single frame drops. Fenris has upgraded to a 5900X and I believe he is very happy with it, he's getting a solid, stable 90 FPS in Multiplayer. But you need to get everything right -- getting the memory wrong on the new AMD chips costs you a 10% CPU performance hit. I'm going to be looking at this again in January when (hopefully) prices have calmed down and the chips are actually available. Until then I'll see how my MP experience feels, I'm going to switch off the frame counter and just play.

 

yup, that's exactly what i'm doing, specifically waiting on Fenris to post his VR benchmark results 😄 

 

if it's even in ~80fps ballpark for that test then AMD is definitely a pretty serious contender for the upgrade.

 

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf hey, man, c'mon, please indulge us with your VR benchmarks!  I'm itching to start buying new parts for an awesome next-gen build and the anticipation is killin' me! 😄  😄  😄  

Edited by 69th_Didney_World
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7 hours ago, Alonzo said:

But you need to get everything right -- getting the memory wrong on the new AMD chips costs you a 10% CPU performance hit.

 

If you're not into memory tweaking or you're confused which memory to get with your new shiny Ryzen 5000, here is an interesting video I found:

Ryzen 5000 DDR4 Memory Performance, XMP vs Manual Timings, Single vs Dual Rank - YouTube

Go to 11m0s in this video, and it turns out you can get quite cheap memory which looks average in theory, yet in real-life performs almost as well as highly-tuned memory. This convinced me to place an order for XPG Spectix (yes, I am building a new Ryzen system, because I got fed-up with single-player slowdown when density is set to "medium" in career mode).

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That was the video that pushed me to test various RAM solutions, as it was incomplete. It didn't have well tuned 2x16GB dual rank 3800 in the benchmarks and used superior chips on the single tuned ones. It also mostly lacked the effect of large streaming landscape and steady asset flow, like flight games require. 

So after testing Tridentz 2x8 and 2x16 (all Samsung's B-Die) I stuck with the 2x16 solution. 

 

If you get an 2x8 solution, you can aim for 3800 or 4000, but make sure to keep the timings as tight as possible, especially the secondary ones too! GL :)

 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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@SCG_Fenris_Wolf I am waiting on a power supply to complete my AMD build this afternoon. I have 32GB (2x16) Trident Z Neo 3600 and plan to aim for 3800 C16.

What other timings do you suggest?

My new build will include a MSI MEG X570 Unify mobo, Ryzen 7 5800X, RX 6800XT, 2 EVO 980Pro 250Gb M.2 SSD, 32Gb DDR4 3600 C16 and EVGA 1,000W Gold PSU.

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Canadians in Toronto area looking for a 5800x. Canada Computers has one in stock at their Hamilton store.

https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_64_1969&item_id=183431

The link will take you to the main page but if you search for 5800x you'll find it.

 

Edit. Now it shows two in stock in hamilton.

Edited by Jaws2002
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56 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

Canadians in Toronto area looking for a 5800x. Canada Computers has one in stock at their Hamilton store.

https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_64_1969&item_id=183431

The link will take you to the main page but if you search for 5800x you'll find it.

 

Edit. Now it shows two in stock in hamilton.

 

They even list the 3060ti. They don't have any of course, but they list it at $569. That's the most reasonable pricing I've seen on any of the 3000 series cards.

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10 hours ago, QB.Gordon200 said:

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf I am waiting on a power supply to complete my AMD build this afternoon. I have 32GB (2x16) Trident Z Neo 3600 and plan to aim for 3800 C16.

What other timings do you suggest?

My new build will include a MSI MEG X570 Unify mobo, Ryzen 7 5800X, RX 6800XT, 2 EVO 980Pro 250Gb M.2 SSD, 32Gb DDR4 3600 C16 and EVGA 1,000W Gold PSU.

 

That depends on your RAM, motherboard, their built quality, and more.

 

You first need to check with Taiphoon Burner what kind of DIEs you got, save that to an XML, then use Ryzen DRAM calculator, import that XML, press"safe settings" to get some lead on primaries and secondary timings, as well as research how much voltage you can put in. Samsung B-Dies easily manage 1.45V to 1.5V continuously, and can be clocked highly with tight timings.

 

It's not trivial and there are quite a few guides floating around, best to plan a full day to get through it if you haven't done it yet. A few tips:

 

1) Don't use Ryzen Master. It doesn't work all the time. Use your BIOS.

2) Don't watch too many YouTubers. Most of them just fake knowledge, and failed irl. (Except Igorslab and der8auer <3 )

3) Don't follow someone else's settings blindly, your RAM is in SKU#x and was built in week y and the humidity was z. 

4) You absolutely must use the latest BIOS available, which should be ending with .151 and maybe a beta flag (as of end of November 2020).

5) If you OC it too hard, it won't post. Best to put the PC's Reset switch to your "delete CMOS" jumper if the system won't post: then you can pull the plug, hold down the button for 15 seconds, and start the rig back up with reset BIOS. 

6) Every time you test a new OC setting, save it. Also keep a stable setting saved to return to in save spot 1. The MSI bios will ask you to load a BIOS after a CMOS reset: you can load the stable one with Alt-F1 then (you'll see).

7) change things incrementally. You're in a dark hallway, your children played with Legos, it's night and you want to get to the fridge. Step by step.

8) last but not least: Do run stability tests over night- so not skip them, by all means! Memtest86, the one in dram calculator, and more are available. Aida64 is fine too. Make sure to read out your Window's event log for WHEA errors/events. Google how to do that, it's very important in order not to break the system over time!

9) good luck and may the force be with you!

 

 

P.S. A nice guide (if you don't speak German, maybe Google translator can help)

https://hardware-helden.de/ryzen-3000-ram-overclocking-guide/

 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf
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1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

 

That depends on your RAM, motherboard, their built quality, and more.

 

You first need to check with Taiphoon Burner what kind of DIEs you got, save that to an XML, then use Ryzen DRAM calculator, import that XML, press"safe settings" to get some lead on primaries and secondary timings, as well as research how much voltage you can put in. Samsung B-Dies easily manage 1.45V to 1.5V continuously, and can be clocked highly with tight timings.

 

That’s already way too much time/hassle.

I guess I won’t be changing my RAM timings.

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